Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dad and Charlie have developed a lovely new habit.  It seems that Charlie likes to curl up around Dad’s head when he goes to sleep.  So when Dad wakes up, he is likely to wake up with a cat literally on his head.  So sweet.  You think. How adorable.  I wish my cat would be that cuddly, you wish. THEN…Charlie lets go of one of his trademark silent releases of gas.  Now, don’t get me wrong, this is one of the sweetest cats going, but that cat is rotten inside. When he releases gas, it can make the entire room toxic.  So imagine Dad’s delight when he is laying there and Charlie is so very close to he smelly parts.  Dad says it is enough to make him cry sometimes.  As long as Charlie keeps his farts to himself, as my father says it, it feels all cuddly wuddly.  Otherwise he wonders if he is part of some chemical warfare. Thought I would share.  And as for Dad exagerrating – he ain’t.  That cat can clear me out of a room! Bridget

LOL! Thank you for that Bridget. I hope you and your Dad have a lovely day. Jeanette

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It seems Charlie and Marble are related. I reckon that in the case of Marble, he has several dead mice stuck up his rear end, festering away which cause the smell. I’m expecting the military to be "adopting" Marble for extract of cat fart to be the next generation nerve gas ;-P Festive cheers, helen s Flush out that intestinal parasite and/or the waste product before sending a reply! Any speeliong mistake$ aR the resiult of my cats sitting on the keyboaRRRDdd

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Thought I would share.  And as for Dad exagerrating – he ain’t.  That cat can

clear me out of a room! Bridget

But can he clear your sinuses? Suz Iron Chef Macmoosette Thank Heavens There’s Only One =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^= Chocolate heals all wounds.                  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dad and Charlie have developed a lovely new habit.  It seems that Charlie likes to curl up around Dad’s head when he goes to sleep.  So when Dad wakes up, he is likely to wake up with a cat literally on his head.  So sweet.  You think. How adorable.  I wish my cat would be that cuddly, you wish. THEN…Charlie lets go of one of his trademark silent releases of gas.  Now, don’t get me wrong, this is one of the sweetest cats going, but that cat is rotten inside. When he releases gas, it can make the entire room toxic.  So imagine Dad’s delight when he is laying there and Charlie is so very close to he smelly parts.  Dad says it is enough to make him cry sometimes.  As long as Charlie keeps his farts to himself, as my father says it, it feels all cuddly wuddly.  Otherwise he wonders if he is part of some chemical warfare. Thought I would share.  And as for Dad exagerrating – he ain’t.  That cat can clear me out of a room! Bridget

I am writting this in haste for if her ladyship Penny found out I would be resting in pieces. Penny is a wonderful cuddly and sweet siamese cat but eeeps. When she breaks wind RUN and I mean RUN away fast. I have talked to the TED and he siad there is nothing worng with her and gave me something to see if it would help, Also Sammy and Penny eat almost the same food so its definitely not the food, I guess some cats tummys are more aromatic than others. Hides this somewhere that her ladyship wont see ~jag~

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I am writting this in haste for if her ladyship Penny found out I would be resting in pieces. Penny is a wonderful cuddly and sweet siamese cat but eeeps. When she breaks wind RUN and I mean RUN away fast. I have talked to the TED and he siad there is nothing worng with her and gave me something to see if it would help, Also Sammy and Penny eat almost the same food so its definitely not the food, I guess some cats tummys are more aromatic than others. Hides this somewhere that her ladyship wont see

When I was a teenager, we had a cat who had a bad gas problem.  It was aggravated by the fact that he refused to eat anything other than tuna-flavor Puss’n'Boots, one of the smelliest canned cat foods on the market.  When he would let fly, it smelled like a fishing boat that had stayed out at sea for far too long.  He would actually get up and leave the room in search of fresher air, resulting in his shifting from room to room on a steady basis.  Other than stinkiness, however, he was a very sweet-mannered cat. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPhEPKTMYPge5L34aEQKyBACfbqUR+7Ux7DrZan9EBCt/D+FYjacAn3zQ 7o3l+3Xpo7uxJXcUyd1Ewhi3 =cZpW —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– — PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." — Hypatia of Alexendria

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Dad and Charlie have developed a lovely new habit.  It seems that Charlie likes to curl up around Dad’s head when he goes to sleep.  So when Dad wakes up, he is likely to wake up with a cat literally on his head.  So sweet.  You think. How adorable.  I wish my cat would be that cuddly, you wish. THEN…Charlie lets go of one of his trademark silent releases of gas.  Now, don’t get me wrong, this is one of the sweetest cats going, but that cat is rotten inside. When he releases gas, it can make the entire room toxic.  So imagine Dad’s delight when he is laying there and Charlie is so very close to he smelly parts.  Dad says it is enough to make him cry sometimes.  As long as Charlie keeps his farts to himself, as my father says it, it feels all cuddly wuddly.  Otherwise he wonders if he is part of some chemical warfare. Thought I would share.  And as for Dad exagerrating – he ain’t.  That cat can clear me out of a room! Bridget

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Question:

Heading for RMNP area for 1 1/2-2 weeks this summer, probably mid to late July. Will be camping for part of the time maybe in or north of the park and then spending 4 days in Estes Park. Looking for advice on places to fish and places to avoid. Mostly interested in smaller streams or shallow lakes. Will be wading-no float tube-with a 7′9" 3/4 wt. Once the family is safely in the confines of a cabin or lodge I may take a solo overnight hike to a more remote lake/stream. Any advice on places and patterns will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mark

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Fished there last summer around July.  I had a great time on the Thompson and on the headwaters of the Colorado.   Usually we could fish till around 4pm before the thunder and lightning rainstorms drove us for cover.  The further you wandered away from the road, the better the fishing got. Although most fish ran 7-10", there were a few larger and some we saw, but could not get to rise in the gin-clear water, that probably went 21/2 to 3lbs.  A 3/4 short rod is a good choice.  On the west side of the park, the Colorado runs into an area that is filthy with beaver dams.  A stealthy approach to the dams brought non-stop action on brookies and cutthroats. The Estes Park Angler in Estes Park is a good source for fly fishing information.  The fish were not that picky.  However, a lime trude sizes 14-16, worked best.  We also picked up fish on elkhair caddis, yellow humpies, hoppers, and stimulators. Randall S. Davis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heading for RMNP area for 1 1/2-2 weeks this summer, probably mid to late July. Will be camping for part of the time maybe in or north of the park and then spending 4 days in Estes Park. Looking for advice on places to fish and places to avoid. Mostly interested in smaller streams or shallow lakes. Will be wading-no float tube-with a 7′9" 3/4 wt. Once the family is safely in the confines of a cabin or lodge I may take a solo overnight hike to a more remote lake/stream. Any advice on places and patterns will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mark

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Question:

That would be interesting… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I want to see you cast THAT setup Big Al

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy All… Last July, I had the pleasure of spending some quality angling time on Yellowstone Lake in Yellowstone National Park. The weather was snipped headed out into the center of the lake. We began trolling from north to south, which was a bit of a chore with the winds blowing as hard as they were. I was the first to feel the tug. Unfortunately, with my slow 4 weight fly rod, it is often difficult to get a good hook set, so the fish got off. Many of you may be asking why I would be using a fly rod to troll with. The reasoning lies in the technique being used to land these cutthroats by the dozens. I learned this technique a few years back from my brother, who in turn learned it from a friend of his. You start with a fly reel loaded up with backing. Then, you tie to the backing 3 or 4 colors of leaded line. Leaded line is simply a lead centered line covered in some type of cloth-like material and is available for a reasonable price at most fishing shops. It has the consistency of soft wire. Lengths of leaded line are measured in colors, which run approximately 4 to 5 yards each. So, for example, if pictures at: http://home.earthlink.net/~reinkings Rick

I want to see you cast THAT setup Big Al

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Howdy All… Last July, I had the pleasure of spending some quality angling time on Yellowstone Lake in Yellowstone National Park. The weather was clear, though a strong breeze was blowing out of the southwest. We rented a boat and headed out into the center of the lake. We began trolling from north to south, which was a bit of a chore with the winds blowing as hard as they were. I was the first to feel the tug. Unfortunately, with my slow 4 weight fly rod, it is often difficult to get a good hook set, so the fish got off. Many of you may be asking why I would be using a fly rod to troll with. The reasoning lies in the technique being used to land these cutthroats by the dozens. I learned this technique a few years back from my brother, who in turn learned it from a friend of his. You start with a fly reel loaded up with backing. Then, you tie to the backing 3 or 4 colors of leaded line. Leaded line is simply a lead centered line covered in some type of cloth-like material and is available for a reasonable price at most fishing shops. It has the consistency of soft wire. Lengths of leaded line are measured in colors, which run approximately 4 to 5 yards each. So, for example, if you have two colors worth of line out, you can make an educated guess that your lure might be running four to six feet deep. Its a handy convention, and it makes keeping track of where the hits are coming from simple. Tie to the end of the leaded line 10 to 15 feet of six or eight pound monofilament. To the end of that tie a muddler’s minnow. I have found that there is no reason to tie a lighter leader to the end of the mono, just tie the fly directly onto the mono. As far as fly size goes, the fish did not seem to be particularly choosy. I fished muddlers ranging from size 4 all the way down to size 12. Over the course of the day I also found no evidence that larger muddlers produced larger fish or that smaller muddlers attracted smaller fish. For those of you who have never caught a Yellowstone Cutthroat, they are a beautiful fish indeed. When I was there, the fish had just finished spawning, and many still bore their spawning colors. Most of the fish we caught were in the 14" to 20" range, and each one put up a good fight. Many even took line. Yellowstone Lake is definitely a lake worth checking into if you enjoy the timelessness of nature and the serenity that it brings. The fact that the cutthroat trout are there, and will readily take a muddler’s minnow just adds to the experience. pictures at: http://home.earthlink.net/~reinkings Rick

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Question:

        As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, no one really knows exactly how far back fly fishing dates. Based on caves drawings and such, we do know that our stoop shouldered, uni-browed ancestors did, in fact, fish. Of course, early fishing techniques lacked a lot of the finesse associated with modern angling. Rods, for instance, were much shorter and heavier, and were used in a somewhat different manner than we are accustomed to. A prehistoric angler, favorite rod in hand, would wade out into a stream and take position. He’d carefully balance his tackle, assuring himself that his grip was firm and proper. After quietly surveying the water, he’d swing the rod in the classic ‘ten o’clock – one o’clock – ten o’clock’ manner. Then he’d bash a fish in the head, pick it up, and eat it raw on the spot.         This style of fishing eventually developed into two distinct areas: one group preferred ’sight bashing’, preferring to actually see a fish before swinging. The other tribe members stuck with the more old fashioned form of ‘blind bashing’. The sight-bashers soon came to hate the blind-bashers, claiming that their particular style was messing up the fishing. The blind-bashers fired back with the old traditionalism vs. neo-fishism, and the debate raged, leading to an inevitable spilt up of the tribe. One group moved upstream and the other, down. It wasn’t long before a splinter group of blind bashers decided that using longer poles was the way to go. They, too, eventually moved out to practice their particular style of fish catching. Before you knew it, ideological angling dichotomy had forced civilization to spread to the four corners of the globe. (Interestingly enough, many of these philosophical arguments continue to this day.)         Of course, early fishermen never really looked upon their labors as being a sport. Owing to the presence of other predators on the stream in those days (saber-toothed tigers, tyrannosauruses, etc.), the prehistoric angler constantly ran the risk of being eaten raw on the spot himself. When a trip to the ol’ fishing hole meant a 50/50 shot of being dinner instead of getting dinner, angling could hardly be considered recreational relaxation. It would be many years before people would look upon fishing as anything but a free, albeit risky, meal.         Our angling ancestors did, however, contribute one thing to the sport which has remained with us. One fine morning, an aboriginal angler (we’ll call him ‘Nok’) was working his favorite stream. At the time of the incident, Nok was using the forerunner of today’s electronic fish finder…that is to say he was knee-deep in the stream, bent over with his head fully submerged. As he scanned the water for his breakfast, a large, fish/angler eating cave bear was also surveying the stream for an early repast. It spotted Nok’s exposed backside, strolled over, sniffed, and then took a tentative exploratory nibble.         Now, a modern angler, no longer attuned to the wilderness environment due to ions of soft, urban living, would have surely met certain death under the same circumstances. Nok, on the other hand, reflexes sharply honed by years of eat-or-be-eaten fishing, reacted instantly. In an explosive, blinding fury of splashing, clubbing, and squealing, Nok was out of the stream and up a tree before the bear’s jaws could clamp completely shut. The astonished bear, left with nothing more than a good soaking and a small piece of loincloth dangling from one tooth, just stood and gazed upward at the terrified caveman, whose trembling had quickly denuded the tree of its leaves. After a fashion, it ambled off in search of a less frisky (and somewhat quieter) meal.         Later that evening, while sitting around the campfire, Nok regaled his small band of fellow anglers with a vivid (and, of course, slightly exaggerated) account of the day’s event. Like all good fishermen, the tribe listened quietly to the story, all the while rolling their eyes and winking at each other when Nok wasn’t looking their way. It wasn’t until Nok turned around and presented the physical evidence that they  believed that this wasn’t just another fishing tale. After much congratulatory grunting and chest pounding, the tribal elder announced that from that evening on Nok would be forever known as ‘Gup Nar’…The One That Got Away. "The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives the hours spent in fishing" – ASSYRIAN TABLET (2000 B.C.) Copyright 1997 Da’ Capn

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When was the strike indicator invented?  Is that in part 2? George Adams

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When was the strike indicator invented?

the day the music died… wayno

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A very well researched and thought out article.  In fact there is some evidence to suggest that our uni-browed ancestors were indeed the biological forerunner of todays polarized sunglasses.     Nature, realizeing that the "Uni-Brow" enabled prehistoric man to fish better – the "uni-brow"  helping to cut down on the surface glare from the water – and being unable to develope polarized eyesight from an evolutionary aspect, procedd to evolve (remember Darwin?) a more intelligent species of hominoid who could later invent polarized sunglassed.     Contrary to the established dogma that man gave up hunter-gatherer society to form an agrarian culture to brew beer, modern theorists now opine it was for the purpose of inventing polarized sunglasses to pursue better fishing.     It is, however, well recorded that primitive man related his tales of adventure around the campfire on the night s of the full moon.  And thus, when Nok exposed his backside to prove the veracity of his tale . . . invented the term "mooning."     Practice C&R and you can kill it later . . . . . . .john

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Question:

Looking to fly fish in the Smokies the end of May.  Any input or suggestions would be appreciated.  TIA. Bruce —

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Where in the Smokies? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking to fly fish in the Smokies the end of May.  Any input or suggestions would be appreciated.  TIA. Bruce —

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Thanks for the reply.  Big Cr. and Cataloochee. We are tent campers and realize the areas may be busy.  Any input is appreciated. Joyce and Bruce — FRIENDSHIP True friendship comes when silence between two friends is comfortable.

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Question:

–snip– in my Vette.  

–snip– I drive an SUV just to prove that my penis extension is larger than yours. don’t it just piss ya off. hahahahaha |Bill and Dawn ‘94 Ford Bronco |               ‘85 Honda Magna V30       |               ‘72 Olds Cutlass Supreme | |Sure it’s an overgrown stationwagon. What’s your point? |   |Email address changed due to growing Auto-SPAM.

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Sure, a 12 year old subaru = will get you to any ski area or through the worst weather Buffalo = has to offer, but it won’t make your neighbours go ‘oooh’.

Not this neighbor.  Try  

Question:

Anyone interested in fishing this great river with myself email: I’m not a guide. I have been fly fishing for 25 years ( I am 35) and tie ALL my own flies. Looking to meet a few avid fly fishermen. -Dave

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Anyone interested in fishing this great river with myself email: I’m not a guide. I have been fly fishing for 25 years ( I am 35) and tie ALL my own flies. Looking to meet a few avid fly fishermen. -Dave

Stand at the head of any Delaware pool on a pleasant Saturday in June, swing your rod around in a circle at arm’s length and you should hit about 10 fellow fly chuckers Seriously, I love to fish the Delaware though don’t get down there as much as I would like these days. I would suggest a stay at the Delaware River Club or the West Branch Angler and you will likely meet a number of friendly folks that share your interest. Good luck, Steve

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Ditto on your recommendation on the West Branch Angler. Top shelf

operation with lots of good people. Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

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Ditto on your recommendation on the West Branch Angler. Top shelf operation with lots of good people.

I much prefer The Delaware River Club over West Branch Angler (they’re about a mile apart for those not familiar with the West Branch of he Delaware.  The West Branch Angler seems to be trying to cater to a more upscale crowd and it’s reflected in the prices of their flyshop and accomodations.  I’ve been in their shop about three times and each time they came off a bit snobbish.  The DRC on the other hand just doesn’t seem pretentious at all.  I stayed at the lodge last year with my girlfriend and even though she doesn’t fish they offered her the use of a pair of waders (no charge) so that she could "fish" with me.  Bob and his wife are extremely congenial and offer information freely about places to fish, techniques, and just about anything else one might need.  Add to that the experience and knowledge of Al Caucci and his fly school at DRC and it’s hard to beat. This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins. Add Bill

John Fereira

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The minimum release has been cut back to 160 cfs. Looks like trouble ahead for the WB and big D trout if we have a "normal" rainfall summer and the Delaware tribs supply enough water to keep Phila. happy. It’s sad that the NYDEC would agree to such a release schedule. But I guess the decision was made by people who don’t fish the WB and and don’t know it’s water needs in the summer. In their ignorance, I suppose 160 cfs sounded like a good number.            Bob

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do mean be by stability in the releases from Cannonsville? I’ve been fishing the WB since 1980 and the water releases have pretty much remained the same. Up one day, down the next. Starting this year, a new release schedule has been instituted. Starting June 1, the mandatory release will be 160 cfs. This will continue until Sept. 1. In the past the mandatory summer release started on June 15 and was 330 cfs. I believe these numbers are correct or nearly so. In addition the minimum winter release has been increased slightly. Instead of 30 people/minute in Deposit flushing their toilets, I think they’ve increased it to 45. I agree with Al Caucci who believes this new minimum summer release schedule is inadequate. If we get a stretch of 80 degree plus days for about a week in July, the water temps. near Hancock will go thru the roof. In addition, with such a small release, most of the trout will tend to move upstream towards Deposit. The "stress bank" has been increased. Big deal. I realize that these higher temps. will adversely affect Caucci’s DRC business which is near Hancock, but I also believe it will have a major negative effect on the whole WB fishery. It most likely will cut the driftboat traffic on the WB which is a plus.  But with the river running low during the summer, it will make the river more fishable than in the past and will put a lot more fishing pressure on the trout. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s the worst case scenario that I see for this summer on the fabulous WB. Bob Hergan

I suppose "relative stability" would be a more accurate term for the flow regime in the upper Delaware. Absolute stability is, of course, unattainable even under natural conditions let alone in a system which serves so many demands. Cold water fishery considerations will always take a back seat for NYC water supply and combatting saltwater intrusion to protect the Phila.& Camden water supplies. The "directed" releases which are aimed at holding back the saltline and and which require a 1750cfs at the Montague gauge are (IMHO) more important to the c.w. fishery than the "conservation" releases which began in fits and starts in 1977 and were finally permanently approved by the DRBC late in ‘83. The agreement called for a minimum release from Cannonsville of 45cfs from 4/1 to 6/14 and 8/16 to 12/31, 325cfs from 6/15 to 8/15 ( except in defined drought or drought warning- a whole nother story) and 33cfs from 11/1 to 3/31. If the required summer release from Canonsville has been cut back to 160 cfs there will be problems in the W. Branch and the mainstem since the mainstem Delaware lives or dies by the cold water thermoplume from the W. Branch. This will happen when there is adequate enough flow in the watershed in general to maintain the "Montague Formula" without Canonsville’s help.                         Regards, RY

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What do mean be by stability in the releases from Cannonsville? I’ve been fishing the WB since 1980 and the water releases have pretty much remained the same. Up one day, down the next. Starting this year, a new release schedule has been instituted. Starting June 1, the mandatory release will be 160 cfs. This will continue until Sept. 1. In the past the mandatory summer release started on June 15 and was 330 cfs. I believe these numbers are correct or nearly so. In addition the minimum winter release has been increased slightly. Instead of 30 people/minute in Deposit flushing their toilets, I think they’ve increased it to 45. I agree with Al Caucci who believes this new minimum summer release schedule is inadequate. If we get a stretch of 80 degree plus days for about a week in July, the water temps. near Hancock will go thru the roof. In addition, with such a small release, most of the trout will tend to move upstream towards Deposit. The "stress bank" has been increased. Big deal. I realize that these higher temps. will adversely affect Caucci’s DRC business which is near Hancock, but I also believe it will have a major negative effect on the whole WB fishery. It most likely will cut the driftboat traffic on the WB which is a plus.  But with the river running low during the summer, it will make the river more fishable than in the past and will put a lot more fishing pressure on the trout. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s the worst case scenario that I see for this summer on the fabulous WB.
Bob Hergan  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip pervious posts Tell you what bugs me: maybe social degradation on the Delaware was inevitable, but it looks to me and plenty of others like the hucksters ruined the experience on the river and instigated a disturbing control mentality throughout the watershed. These guys were largely mute in the 70’s and early 80’s when the battle for adequate flows was going on. Just as soon as there was some stability they moved-in to scarf-up control and reap the profits.                         Ray Ray, I’m not sure what you mean by "social degradation" and would be interested in your definition.

A selfish one admittedly: overcrowding due to access restrictions to the point of unpleasantness, a lack by many of what the old timers called stream etiquette, general unseemliness like yelling things like paraleptophlebia and isonychia across the pools. And many other things that could be endlessly rationalized and debated but that have vitiated what I consider a satisfying angling experience. As to the ‘Johny come lately with money’ scenario, it seems like what else could be expected. With flow stability providing a real world-class fishery the value of riverside property as a money maker was now to be realized. So a couple of guys with the resources show up and start buying so they can lock up as much access as possible. They can sell this access and related services for top dollar. This is pretty much the development scenario going on everywhere.

True but nonetheless still worth bitching about.                                 Regards, Ray

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<snip pervious posts Tell you what bugs me: maybe social degradation on the Delaware was inevitable, but it looks to me and plenty of others like the hucksters ruined the experience on the river and instigated a disturbing control mentality throughout the watershed. These guys were largely mute in the 70’s and early 80’s when the battle for adequate flows was going on. Just as soon as there was some stability they moved-in to scarf-up control and reap the profits.                         Ray

Ray, I’m not sure what you mean by "social degradation" and would be interested in your definition. As to the ‘Johny come lately with money’ scenario, it seems like what else could be expected. With flow stability providing a real world-class fishery the value of riverside property as a money maker was now to be realized. So a couple of guys with the resources show up and start buying so they can lock up as much access as possible. They can sell this access and related services for top dollar. This is pretty much the development scenario going on everywhere. One solution would be the purchase of public access easements by local or state governments. But I wouldn’t hold out much hope for this happening along the New York State boundary. Regards, Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip DRC accolade This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins. Geez, John! I’ve not heard this rumor but…if it is only a rumor of which you know no actual facts it is unfortunate you chose to pass it along on the internet.  Such rumor publication has the potential to do unnecessary harm to the innocent. I agree that the WBA prices are stiff but on the other hand all of the employees I have interacted with have treated me very cordially and have been helpful to me. Their accomodations have been wonderfull. I have heard good things about the DRC from others and will give them a try this year. Regards, Steve Actually, neither WBA or DRC is squeaky-clean in their attempts to attract customers.  WBA’s stocking violations are fairly well known; DRC has a habit of dramatically overstating the amount of private water they have (I measured .75 miles vs. their claim of 2.5 miles), and then they’ll throw you out of the best pool (Cole’s) on a whim.  But not to worry, because all of DRC’s water and much of WBA’s water is fairly easily accessible from the New York side.  My recommendation: find a decent non-angling motel nearby and fish the entire West Branch netween Deposit and Hancock as well as the main stem below Hancock.  Neither DRC or WBA is worth the extra money or the hassle. MZ

Tell you what bugs me: maybe social degradation on the Delaware was inevitable, but it looks to me and plenty of others like the hucksters ruined the experience on the river and instigated a disturbing control mentality throughout the watershed. These guys were largely mute in the 70’s and early 80’s when the battle for adequate flows was going on. Just as soon as there was some stability they moved-in to scarf-up control and reap the profits.                         Ray

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<snip DRC accolade This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins.

Geez, John! I’ve not heard this rumor but…if it is only a rumor of which you know no actual facts it is unfortunate you chose to pass it along on the internet.  Such rumor publication has the potential to do unnecessary harm to the innocent. I agree that the WBA prices are stiff but on the other hand all of the employees I have interacted with have treated me very cordially and have been helpful to me. Their accomodations have been wonderfull. I have heard good things about the DRC from others and will give them a try this year. Regards, Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip DRC accolade This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins. Geez, John! I’ve not heard this rumor but…if it is only a rumor of which you know no actual facts it is unfortunate you chose to pass it along on the internet.  Such rumor publication has the potential to do unnecessary harm to the innocent. I agree that the WBA prices are stiff but on the other hand all of the employees I have interacted with have treated me very cordially and have been helpful to me. Their accomodations have been wonderfull. I have heard good things about the DRC from others and will give them a try this year. Regards, Steve

Actually, neither WBA or DRC is squeaky-clean in their attempts to attract customers.  WBA’s stocking violations are fairly well known; DRC has a habit of dramatically overstating the amount of private water they have (I measured .75 miles vs. their claim of 2.5 miles), and then they’ll throw you out of the best pool (Cole’s) on a whim.  But not to worry, because all of DRC’s water and much of WBA’s water is fairly easily accessible from the New York side.  My recommendation: find a decent non-angling motel nearby and fish the entire West Branch netween Deposit and Hancock as well as the main stem below Hancock.  Neither DRC or WBA is worth the extra money or the hassle. MZ

Response:

I heard the same rumor about the stocking, and the W. Br. Angler owner is doing his damddest to buy up and post as much of the W. Br. and also the main D below Hancock to cater to that upscale crowd you mentioned. That’s why the NYDEC bought a couple of access sites in the no-kill section. Just to get there before he did. Got this from a DEC official about the access sites.  

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Question:

GG whore-news-hounds like Bob Silie and Charlie Myers were taken there.  If GG you want to destroy a river or cathedral like this, simply write about it. I just love your writing style George and I believe you are right about these things most of the time. You know the water I fish from our conversations regarding John and Elna. I have recently stopped giving information in my posts which refer to the river I fish and live on. Hell, I may even stop referring to the entire State. My question, which is posed to you with the greatest respect for your experience, is simply:     1. Am I a selfish, greedy fool for not wanting my rather private party     crashed,          or     2. Have I been a loudmouthed fool for the many past years and posts I have     made inviting everyone I knew, and many I didn’t to come partake in the     pleasure? I have very mixed emotions about this, but I have seen what you are talking about here happen in so many places. Thanks for the shared experiences and cerebral pleasures your posts have brought me George. Dennis Vick … nfx v2.6 [C0000]  http://www.westonia.com/blueview/                      

Response:

Thanks for the images Mr. Gink.  Again, I can only try and imagine.  By the way, that 10 pound cutthroat is swimming around Pyramid lake with a bunch of buddies the same size……JE

Response:

How ravaged was she when 1983 came around?  My first meeting with this fine fair princess was not a solitary affair, but I know the 14 years since since then have been brutal, accelerating with every season.  Now, I can’t stand to see her.  The agonizing destruction brought on by her own, complex beauty hurts too deeply.  And the trout, tell me, give me an idea of just how much I missed.  In 1983 she seemed in good health, but I have no other version of her to compare, except her violated ugly present state.  Then, I thought I was still seeing at least a glimpse of what you two recall.  Now I can only imagine…

Of course, if the Denver Water Board had their way, it would be a great big recreation area now… — Chester Bullock Affordable Web Design and Hosting for Small Businesses http://www.black-diamond.com

Response:

Comes now, thundering towards the lady, from over the horizon – the goat-fuckers of the Platte River. The crown jewel trout stream in the entire state. At least, I knew her when she was still virgin.  Unmolested, unbaited, with wild rainbows as big and as long as your leg.  Challenged, fought, released for another day.  The genes of yesterday, saved for my tomorrows, and for the tomorrows of children then, yet unborn . . . who want to come now and kill you and your children that play in dark, clear, secret pools.  From wheel-chairs, jeeps, skidoo’s, spinners, and campers filled with canning jars!   Let us strip her garments, her flowing gowns and dress away.  Strip her naked to be raped with drive up camp grounds so the goat-fuckers can cast from the seat of an open topped 4-WD, or float on down the center of the river in black, ugly truck inner-tubes, with rat-faced macdoogal, sun freckled rug rats screaming in your ears.  Who wants to hear those peeping Water Oozels anymore, or the cheer of the blue-bird, or the rattling of the great woodpeckers in the pines?  Its going to be more fun listening to those Coleman Electrical generators and some bitch screaming . . . "Didn’t I tell you to come eat these damned hamburgers?!!" Goodby, sweet Princess.  We knew, one day you were going to be murdered. We all must die, someday but some of us, in the quiet reaches of Colorado’s Outdoors, do it better than others.  Your death has begun and it will be a public affair attended by all of Denver this public hanging that has long been . . . overdue? Mr. G.

Response:

Poignant, truthful and sad. Might as well build the Two Forks dam, just to put our mother out of her anguished misery.

You know, I’ve thought the same thing myself. Although I don’t consider the Platte my "mother" (that’s another river in another place far from here) she has certainly been a lover. Almost better to wipe it all away than see it get worse. </chaz

Response:

Go back to 1968-1972 before the road was paved.  When the Denver Water Board had all of it locked up and then after that, the entire Lake above the Dam.  It was in the days when on a weekend only one or two other cars were hidden or parked on the path in.  When I could fish all week and never see another soul.  When you could look down into Anticipation Pool and watch Rainbows chasing another with a face full of green algae filimentagous moss full of caddis worms, trying to steal  it like a pack of puppies chasing the nipples on mother.  When I could sit on one of those huge basalt/sandstone boulders by the hour watching fish up to fifteen and sixteen pounds darting around like minnows!  Spunky, fearless, not knowing what ‘man’ was about and the depth of the pool protected them from predators, so they hid seldom.  It was water that had no brown trout in it then.  Those were introduced by the idiots at the Wig-Wam Club.  But once started, it hurt the fishery beyond imagination.  It was long before the outdoor writers of the Rocky Mountain News, and the Denver Post and the whore-news-hounds like Bob Silie and Charlie Myers were taken there.  If you want to destroy a river or cathedral like this, simply write about it. It was Brad Fort who first took me here.  It was Brad Fort who taught me that here, little was better and where literally, "Matching the Hatch" meant you took viles of samples home and you INVENTED the emerging caddis flies with the short-side duck-quill-tip wings, the fine gold ribbing, the beaver chest and the black mink fur head and the trailing wood-duck flank legs in sizes 18/2X and 16 hooks.  It was when you stood in front of a little shoot of water and forced yourself to believe that there WAS a fish THERE.  You fished with total focus, no indicators, you concentrated just on the leader where it entered the water.  If you can read water you must learn how to read the drift of a leader.  How it moves, in or out, fast or slows with the current, or how it may simply ‘pause’.  You don’t lift with each ‘guess’ but rather I snap the rod tip down towards the water for about two or six inches.  Its enough to move the mico-caddis offerings to touch a trout without having to come out of the water or off the bottom.  Few, if any other fly fishermen knew this trick I guessed at and was taught by this river to do.  And then the day came of all glorious days in my life.  I had been fishing her in secret for many years.  It was the only place in the west I knew of that had such large fish and so many of them.  Over 8,000 per mile. I began to dream of ‘a feat’.  A club I want to start, even to this day. But with the Rainbow, I think I am the only man in the world to do this feat, but I have not been able to do it with all the other species but I am near to completing it with the brown. It goes like this.  A sixteen inch trout caught on a size sixteen hook. This makes me a member of the 16/16 club.  With the Rainbow Species and all of them caught on the Platte River above Deckers.  I am my own member in good standing for completing all the fish and hook sizes.  They are:  The 18/18 Club, the 20/20, 22/22 and 24/24 Club and then a year later the 26/26 club, the 28/28 club and finally a 32 inch Rainbow caught on a size 32 fly slightly over-sized-dressed as a midge. With the Brown Trout, I have them all except the 26/26 Club and most of those are caught at the Miracle Mile and Big Horn River before the Indians opened it up to public fishing. In this world, on this planet, I don’t think there is a man alive that could spend a lifetime and get this far let alone do all four species on all seven hook sizes.  Such a man, would be remembered forever, I think. This idea, which is copyrighted by me is on the back-burner because the patches and certificates could be won by a little boy fishing a fly in an irrigation ditch such as the 16/16 inch Club Master with a Brown Trout.  As the years pass, the patches start to gather and it would not require killing fish to do it.  Just a camera and a witness.  Two witnesses after one gets over the 20 sizes. There is a man named Charlie Kroll who is the son-in-law of Fred Bear of Bear Archery fame.  Mr. Kroll (who used to be my neighbor in Blackhawk Colorado where I invented Gink) has done something nearly as marvelous and as difficult.  Catching a ten pounder or greater trout of each species on a fly.  He has them all except the Cutthroat.  By the time he got to Reno, the big Cutts had already been pan-fried and are gone.  I don’t think there is another 10 pound cutthroat left in the lower 48 but I think he can still find one in South America. That, remains to be seen. Mr. Gink – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How ravaged was she when 1983 came around?  My first meeting with this fine fair princess was not a solitary affair, but I know the 14 years since since then have been brutal, accelerating with every season.  Now, I can’t stand to see her.  The agonizing destruction brought on by her own, complex beauty hurts too deeply.  And the trout, tell me, give me an idea of just how much I missed.  In 1983 she seemed in good health, but I have no other version of her to compare, except her violated ugly present state.  Then, I thought I was still seeing at least a glimpse of what you two recall.  Now I can only imagine…

Response:

How ravaged was she when 1983 came around?  My first meeting with this fine fair princess was not a solitary affair, but I know the 14 years since since then have been brutal, accelerating with every season.  Now, I can’t stand to see her.  The agonizing destruction brought on by her own, complex beauty hurts too deeply.  And the trout, tell me, give me an idea of just how much I missed.  In 1983 she seemed in good health, but I have no other version of her to compare, except her violated ugly present state.  Then, I thought I was still seeing at least a glimpse of what you two recall.  Now I can only imagine…

Response:

Poignant, truthful and sad.   Might as well build the Two Forks dam, just to put our mother out of her anguished misery. — TimW Halfordian Golfer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Comes now, thundering towards the lady, from over the horizon – the goat-fuckers of the Platte River. The crown jewel trout stream in the entire state. At least, I knew her when she was still virgin.  Unmolested, unbaited, with wild rainbows as big and as long as your leg.  Challenged, fought, released for another day.  The genes of yesterday, saved for my tomorrows, and for the tomorrows of children then, yet unborn . . . who want to come now and kill you and your children that play in dark, clear, secret pools.  From wheel-chairs, jeeps, skidoo’s, spinners, and campers filled with canning jars!   Let us strip her garments, her flowing gowns and dress away.  Strip her naked to be raped with drive up camp grounds so the goat-fuckers can cast from the seat of an open topped 4-WD, or float on down the center of the river in black, ugly truck inner-tubes, with rat-faced macdoogal, sun freckled rug rats screaming in your ears.  Who wants to hear those peeping Water Oozels anymore, or the cheer of the blue-bird, or the rattling of the great woodpeckers in the pines?  Its going to be more fun listening to those Coleman Electrical generators and some bitch screaming . . . "Didn’t I tell you to come eat these damned hamburgers?!!" Goodby, sweet Princess.  We knew, one day you were going to be murdered. We all must die, someday but some of us, in the quiet reaches of Colorado’s Outdoors, do it better than others.  Your death has begun and it will be a public affair attended by all of Denver this public hanging that has long been . . . overdue? Mr. G.

Response:

  Comes now, thundering towards the lady, from over the horizon – the   goat-fuckers of the Platte River. The crown jewel trout stream in   the   entire state.   At least, I knew her when she was still virgin.  Unmolested,   unbaited,   with wild rainbows as big and as long as your leg.  Challenged,   fought,   released for another day.  The genes of yesterday, saved for my   tomorrows, and for the tomorrows of children then, yet unborn . . .   who   want to come now and kill you and your children that play in dark,   clear, secret pools.  From wheel-chairs, jeeps, skidoo’s, spinners,   and   campers filled with canning jars!   Let us strip her garments, her   flowing gowns and dress away.  Strip her naked to be raped with   drive up   camp grounds so the goat-fuckers can cast from the seat of an open   topped 4-WD, or float on down the center of the river in black, ugly   truck inner-tubes, with rat-faced macdoogal, sun freckled rug rats   screaming in your ears.  Who wants to hear those peeping Water   Oozels   anymore, or the cheer of the blue-bird, or the rattling of the great   woodpeckers in the pines?  Its going to be more fun listening to   those   Coleman Electrical generators and some bitch screaming . . . "Didn’t   I   tell you to come eat these damned hamburgers?!!"   Goodby, sweet Princess.  We knew, one day you were going to be   murdered.   We all must die, someday but some of us, in the quiet reaches of   Colorado’s Outdoors, do it better than others.  Your death has begun   and   it will be a public affair attended by all of Denver this public   hanging   that has long been . . . overdue?   Mr. G.  Dear Mr. Gehrke: I was lucky enough, one time many years ago to meet  you as I had watched you fishing above the Wigwam Club long before the paved roads were put in.  When that long grade down into the Platte Canyon could literally kill you.  When it was still wilderness.  I watched you fish the big, deep pools from a huge boulder high above and you were below . . . and I

Question:

would someone please repost the address for the vote on the fly tying group. thank you — Gerry Hudson Judy Hudson

Response:

would someone please repost the address for the vote on the fly tying group.

Send an email message with one of the following two lines (and only that in the message) as the text of the message: I vote YES to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying I vote NO to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Please vote if you haven’t done so.  There are only 9 days left to vote. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Question:

A friend of mine just found two pairs of neoprene waders in someone’s garbage.  They had been cut off at the knee with a pair of scissors, but they were cut pretty cleanly, and he has all of the the boot sections. The waders are in mint condition otherwise, and I am of the opinion that if we take them to a seamstress she could sew the legs back on and make the seam waterproof. Has anyone out there ever had to make repairs of a similar (if not so drastic) nature?  Any and all opinions/suggestions are welcome.                                 Thanks,                                 Michael Frank

Response:

A friend of mine just found two pairs of neoprene waders in someone’s garbage.  They had been cut off at the knee with a pair of scissors, but they were cut pretty cleanly, and he has all of the the boot sections. The waders are in mint condition otherwise, and I am of the opinion that if we take them to a seamstress she could sew the legs back on and make the seam waterproof.

Hi Frank-    Clean the edges of the cut and put a liberal coat of Barge cement on each edge and allow to almost dry. Sqeeze the joint together firmly with a pair of non serrated pliers. Allow to dry for a day then paint over the seam (inside and out) with Aquaseal thinned with Cotol. The joint will be stronger than the fabric itself. DO NOT SEW!!!    Ralph —

Response:

writes: A friend of mine just found two pairs of neoprene waders in someone’s garbage.  They had been cut off at the knee with a pair of scissors, but they were cut pretty cleanly, and he has all of the the boot sections. The waders are in mint condition otherwise, and I am of the opinion that if we take them to a seamstress she could sew the legs back on and make the seam waterproof.

DON’T SEW them together!!!  If you do they will always leak.  Any thread you use to sew with will continually open up holes in the neoprene as the waders are used..  That’s why the first neoprene waders didn’t work years ago.   Aquaseal will put the pieces back together very effectively.  Use masking tape on the inside of the leg while applying to keep the Aqua seal from coming through and you’re waders will work fine.  If you forget the tape the aquaseal will glue the insides of the legs together and you will not be able to get it apart.                          Good Luck,                                 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools

Response:

writes: It depends on how the sewing is done… If they are just surface sitches on one side and then glued, it helps with the strength and alignment. Sitches all the way through will cause problems.

This is true.  It is what is known as *blind stitching*  which adds great strength to a pair of waders.  Blind stitching goes through the nylon top layer into the neoprene of the first piece then into the neoprene of the second piece and back up through the nylon top layer of the second piece. However blind stitching is done with a special machine with a curved needle and to my knowledge this would be real unusual to find with a seamstress as it is unecessary to use blind stitching with "normal " clothes.  Stitching entirely through the neoprene ruins it.                                                            Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools

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