Question:

I know this isn’t the right group to post this on, but I’m too impatient to go through the hassle of subscribing to another newsgroup just for one (for now) question.  And a lot of you do regreational flying, so might be more familiar with this issue. I have read FAR 73 here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr73_00.html and cannot find where it describes, specifies, or even implies what sorts of areas are restricted or prohibited.  Am I missing something? This came up in a discussion at work on fishing remote lakes.  The fisherman in question thinks it’s illegal to fly in to certain remote lakes, say in designated wilderness areas, wildlife refuges, National parks, etc.  I think he’s right, but where can I see what specifically is allowed, and what areas specifically are restricted or prohibited? David

Response:

That information is depicted graphically on the aviation charts, and temporary restrictions are published in the NOTAMS (notices to airmen). Best regards, Rob Housman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this isn’t the right group to post this on, but I’m too impatient to go through the hassle of subscribing to another newsgroup just for one (for now) question.  And a lot of you do regreational flying, so might be more familiar with this issue. I have read FAR 73 here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr73_00.html and cannot find where it describes, specifies, or even implies what sorts of areas are restricted or prohibited.  Am I missing something? This came up in a discussion at work on fishing remote lakes.  The fisherman in question thinks it’s illegal to fly in to certain remote lakes, say in designated wilderness areas, wildlife refuges, National parks, etc.  I think he’s right, but where can I see what specifically is allowed, and what areas specifically are restricted or prohibited? David

Response:

Check with the manageing agency for the area you want to fly into.  The BLM, Forest Service, etc.  These governmental agencies set the regs for use within their holdings.  I don’t think the FAA has an interest in your question. To partially answer though, no motorized vehicles or even bicycles are allowed in designated USFS wilderness areas.  This would include aircraft landing or taking off.  Some refuges are restricted, some aren’t, an example being some located in Alaska.  Anyway, for specific restrictions, check with the managment.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this isn’t the right group to post this on, but I’m too impatient to go through the hassle of subscribing to another newsgroup just for one (for now) question.  And a lot of you do regreational flying, so might be more familiar with this issue. I have read FAR 73 here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr73_00.html and cannot find where it describes, specifies, or even implies what sorts of areas are restricted or prohibited.  Am I missing something? This came up in a discussion at work on fishing remote lakes.  The fisherman in question thinks it’s illegal to fly in to certain remote lakes, say in designated wilderness areas, wildlife refuges, National parks, etc.  I think he’s right, but where can I see what specifically is allowed, and what areas specifically are restricted or prohibited? David

Response:

Question:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 If only acid had done as much for me, I’d have done more than sample it a couple of times. Now I feel like a real dork. The only acid I’ve ever taken much interest in is the stuff that has me gobbling Tagamet whenever my wife sends out for pizza. Mike S. Medintz Burn, esophagus, burn!

You didn’t miss anything.  I’ve had as much fun looking at the inside of my eyelids without having taken anything more interesting than homogenized cow’s milk. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If only acid had done as much for me, I’d have done more than sample it a couple of times. Now I feel like a real dork. The only acid I’ve ever taken much interest in is the stuff that has me gobbling Tagamet whenever my wife sends out for pizza. Mike S. Medintz Burn, esophagus, burn! You didn’t miss anything.  I’ve had as much fun looking at the inside of my eyelids without having taken anything more interesting than homogenized cow’s milk.

You weren’t doing it right. /daytripper (Trust me on this

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1

<snip re: acid You weren’t doing it right. /daytripper (Trust me on this

Trip, I like you and all, but if we’re ever at a clave and you tell me to trust you on something, I’m afraid I’m going to have to insist on driving. That acid indigestion’s a bitch when you’re trying to watch the road. Makes you see purple lizards and shit like that. – — Linux: Because I like it when my computer actually works —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8O9iXkciOs8eNXDMRAuqzAKCSNnDitg3ny386MWd8B4FyNXUCWgCfaWoU 9lUI5m8FwvxTSX9bv14WZSI= =SmTC —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ——BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 <snip re: acid You weren’t doing it right. /daytripper (Trust me on this Trip, I like you and all, but if we’re ever at a clave and you tell me to trust you on something, I’m afraid I’m going to have to insist on driving. That acid indigestion’s a bitch when you’re trying to watch the road. Makes you see purple lizards and shit like that.

Sounds fair, but the real tip will be when I say "Watch this!" /daytripper (Living On The Edge)

Response:

Sounds fair, but the real tip will be when I say "Watch this!" /daytripper (Living On The Edge)

My experience goes more like, "Hey, check this out"

Response:

Ed Muskie on acid. -Fear and loathing on the fly-fishing trail

If only acid had done as much for me, I’d have done more than sample it a couple of times. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Ed Muskie on acid. -Fear and loathing on the fly-fishing trail If only acid had done as much for me, I’d have done more than sample it a couple of times.

Well, speaking just for me (and, well, for Raoul, Ed, and a host of other characters of an imaginary nature, by default), I’ve always found that an interesting assortment of friends and acquaintances lead to more interesting "trips" than the recreational use of pharmaceutical chemicals.  I’ve never put any real stock in drugs, nor had any real interest in them.  That said, I don’t begrudge other adults their usage (either morally or legally), and in fact, having friends that do so in the aforementioned assortment can be both inspirational and instructional.  Besides, me on acid, etc. would likely result is nothing but a very long one-word sentence of vowels – sort of a Polish Julie Andrews song…. TC, R whose holiday messages ran the gamut from folks such as VERY gay West End (English) theater types (yes, I do see the redundancy) to those who make ol’ Rush look like the former…

Response:

Is this "Muskie"?  (for filter purposes)

Response:

Is this "Muskie"?  (for filter purposes)

Reliable sources tell me it’s not THAT Muskie, the tree-hugging Bush hater, but a parody of another famous Muskie (the self-hugging Nixon hater).  However those same reliable sources also tell me that he probably won’t be posting much to ROFF (and certainly no articles on how Bush, et al, are responsible for everything from the Crusades to the making of "Freddy Got Fingered"…) HTH, TC, R

Response:

I’m not sure that many roffians read that book, judging from the total lack of response to the Ed Muskie on acid comment. It just reminded how funny that book was. I need to go down to the basement, dig it out and give it another read. HST

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this "Muskie"?  (for filter purposes) Reliable sources tell me it’s not THAT Muskie, the tree-hugging Bush hater, but a parody of another famous Muskie (the self-hugging Nixon hater).  However those same reliable sources also tell me that he probably won’t be posting much to ROFF (and certainly no articles on how Bush, et al, are responsible for everything from the Crusades to the making of "Freddy Got Fingered"…) HTH, TC, R

Response:

Is this "Muskie"?  (for filter purposes)

If it is, he’s, happily, returned to his old ways.  More or less his amusing trolling style.  I’d advise not filtering unless it goes political.  Unless you don’t like an occasional chuckle or gag (it can trigger that reflex once in a while).  If it’s someone else, well, good for them. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this "Muskie"?  (for filter purposes) If it is, he’s, happily, returned to his old ways.  More or less his amusing trolling style.  I’d advise not filtering unless it goes political.  Unless you don’t like an occasional chuckle or gag (it can trigger that reflex once in a while).  If it’s someone else, well, good for them.

Well, I think it’s actually the ghost of ol’ Tricky Dick his ownself, haunting Donald Segretti’s Palm Pilot….or Ben Bradlee’s WebTV… A. Gordon Haig

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 If only acid had done as much for me, I’d have done more than sample it a couple of times.

Now I feel like a real dork. The only acid I’ve ever taken much interest in is the stuff that has me gobbling Tagamet whenever my wife sends out for pizza. Mike S. Medintz Burn, esophagus, burn! —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8N/g8kciOs8eNXDMRAoNpAJ488dF6OiCruhmZUGh5RW5ysMJqDwCfYPCJ OZ6lIjqGKF/MNTBRpfcTJTc= =s0FK —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

….At the most inopportune moment, there appeared a slack-jawed rentacop, and threatened to spray Brian with pepper spray unless he put down the hapless clerk.  Before I could explain the perilous nature of such an ill-advised action, we – the clerk, Tricky, the rentacop, and your author – were awash in noxious fumes.  Any hope to a civil resolution is, at this point, non-existent, and also of course, Brian, who is used to such pedestrian attempts, is completely unfazed.  Well, perhaps "unfazed" is not completely accurate, because it seems to have a wholly-unintended effect.  He proceeded to hurl the now-wailing technoweasel at the wide-eyed rentacop.  Surprisingly, for a person in such a position and of such girth, the rentacop was apparently not used to catching screaming people.   At this point, Tricky started yelling something about "that prick Lyndon" and "agent orange," which, it goes without saying, provided no measure of stability to a situation turning more dangerous by the minute.  I decided that quick, decisive action was not only called for, but urgently needed.  Normally, a round or two into a handy ceiling from the Magnum would have shocked everyone not in our party into stunned inaction, and we could have made a hasty retreat. However, the current political climate makes the use of firearms, even when used strictly for effect, a rather dicey proposition, so I demurred from that course.  I decided instead to play it straight.  I began to demand to see management, and for a phone to call Johnny Cochran. A slightish young man, who appeared scared shitless, presented himself.  He introduced himself as "Skip Skipperson, the assistant to the manager’s assistant," and I quickly determined that my chosen course was the right one.  "What do you mean by hiring fiends with nerve gas to assault customers," I bellowed, about 6 inches from Skip’s face, which was now that very pale shade of grey-green that told me Skip had likely soiled himself.  "Urga-nish-dint-naw-load," gurgled Skip.  This was our moment.  I told Brian to grab Tricky, and we beat it out of there, post-haste.   Experience has taught me that departure at such a moment will result, by the time the principles are debriefed, and everyone gives their version, exactly as it happened, with the composites assembled into a profile, in a distinct advantage being gained.  The constabulary will be busy looking for 2 Black Panthers, a drag queen, Martha Stewart, and a large, ill-described bovine called "Samuel." While our departure was successful and without further incident, I was still no closer to the original goal: that of replacing the world-worn Nikon.  We proceeded to another store, ignoring Brian’s protests and Tricky’s mumbling about "little yeller bastards"….

Response:

Ed Muskie on acid. -Fear and loathing on the fly-fishing trail

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….At the most inopportune moment, there appeared a slack-jawed rentacop, and threatened to spray Brian with pepper spray unless he put down the hapless clerk.  Before I could explain the perilous nature of such an ill-advised action, we – the clerk, Tricky, the rentacop, and your author – were awash in noxious fumes.  Any hope to a civil resolution is, at this point, non-existent, and also of course, Brian, who is used to such pedestrian attempts, is completely unfazed.  Well, perhaps "unfazed" is not completely accurate, because it seems to have a wholly-unintended effect.  He proceeded to hurl the now-wailing technoweasel at the wide-eyed rentacop.  Surprisingly, for a person in such a position and of such girth, the rentacop was apparently not used to catching screaming people. At this point, Tricky started yelling something about "that prick Lyndon" and "agent orange," which, it goes without saying, provided no measure of stability to a situation turning more dangerous by the minute.  I decided that quick, decisive action was not only called for, but urgently needed.  Normally, a round or two into a handy ceiling from the Magnum would have shocked everyone not in our party into stunned inaction, and we could have made a hasty retreat. However, the current political climate makes the use of firearms, even when used strictly for effect, a rather dicey proposition, so I demurred from that course.  I decided instead to play it straight.  I began to demand to see management, and for a phone to call Johnny Cochran. A slightish young man, who appeared scared shitless, presented himself.  He introduced himself as "Skip Skipperson, the assistant to the manager’s assistant," and I quickly determined that my chosen course was the right one.  "What do you mean by hiring fiends with nerve gas to assault customers," I bellowed, about 6 inches from Skip’s face, which was now that very pale shade of grey-green that told me Skip had likely soiled himself.  "Urga-nish-dint-naw-load," gurgled Skip.  This was our moment.  I told Brian to grab Tricky, and we beat it out of there, post-haste. Experience has taught me that departure at such a moment will result, by the time the principles are debriefed, and everyone gives their version, exactly as it happened, with the composites assembled into a profile, in a distinct advantage being gained.  The constabulary will be busy looking for 2 Black Panthers, a drag queen, Martha Stewart, and a large, ill-described bovine called "Samuel." While our departure was successful and without further incident, I was still no closer to the original goal: that of replacing the world-worn Nikon.  We proceeded to another store, ignoring Brian’s protests and Tricky’s mumbling about "little yeller bastards"….

Response:

Question:

I picked up a fly tying kit and tied my first fly… boy.. is it ugly !!! I think I shall call it ‘Dan’s Swamp Critter’. Why wife asked what it was.. I said "a fly". She said, "I know, but all of your other fly’s look like something". Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ? Thank in advance, -Dan-

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ?

        Joseph Bates, Jr.’s book on fly tying and fly fishing streamers has just be republished by Stackpole books. This is the most complete streamer pattern, history, fishing technique book on the subject.

Response:

(snip) Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

How about a tad more particulars on which feathers to use and how to prepare them?  Sounds like a plethera of very useful, inexpensive material here.  Specifically, what patterns of flys? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Wolfie, You got that right, I went wild when I got my first Ringneck Pheasant rooster skin. I even invented a couple of flies which I still use today.  As for the Phoenix skin, the last one of those rose from the ashes along with G’s rods. Ernie

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns <snip Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

Response:

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are a source of feathers commonly used as a substitute for jungle cock eyes for us po folks. Wolfgang who’s yer daddy, clarice?

Response:

Hi Group A friend of mine swears by Starling feathers. Doesn’t show his flies around a lot but I’ve seen his rod bent a few times. Good price too! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F. Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Mike, They are European Starlings.  Some damn fool imported them along with the English Sparrow and they have destroyed farm crops ever since.  A bunch of them even brought down an airliner.  I am glad to hear they are good for something. Ernie "Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

Response:

Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

Response:

Congrats!  The real thrill will come when you catch a fish on a fly you tied yourself! Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

Response:

Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

…..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

Response:

…..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

        fucking wonderful wayno

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since. Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

reads like a TA (Tiers Anonymous) add.. Herman …..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.    Cheers, Herman    Herman Nijland    Daytime webmaster    Lifetime flyfisher

I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside.

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Response:

Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Stan, growing up in Newport News, VA we learned early on the Purple Martin housing and Starling competition was SERIOUS business.  Purple Martins are key players in mosquito control.  For most people in the South, Starlings are a disposable pest. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

….I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin…..

The Lady Amherst is another variety of pheasant.  In my manic tying material acquisition phase I managed to get complete skins from 4 or 5 species of pheasant.  Most of them are quietly moldering in a box somewhere.  Each of them offers feathers for a few specific patterns, but aside from that they are just pretty to look at.  Much better to buy loose feathers for your gray ghosts, etc.  The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns.  Virtually all of them have common uses.  Of course, one can always experiment with the lovely feathers from all the others, by my own experience and that of all the other tiers I used to hang with suggests that the results will typically be a lot better for show than for catching fish.  Still, practicality has little to do with the whole process, does it?    :) Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

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Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….

Done deal! Bruce (here kitty kitty!) Thomsen

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I’ll second Franks demand. Since practice makes perfect, you improve your tying skills. You are going to half to tie 25 or 30 of a single pattern and you’re likely to see an improvement from as you go. You are going to have some excellent examples to go by. I saved all the flies that I got in the first swap (and will with the current one as well). I tied up many of the flies and fished with the replicas but saved the originals. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Waynw, Amherst is a breed of pheasant like Golden and Ringneck.  The mink coat sounds good, you are the only tier I know who is starting out with one, . Ernie "Wayne Hart" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. Wayne

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I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Olive Biot Nymph (legs whch may or may not be utilized).  The book on fly tying I got from ezflyfish.com (your source for great fly fishing products at fair prices and superlative service) has a number of patterns using Starling feathers and silk thread (probably UK pattern origins). — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

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Question:

Has anybody herd of a train derailment / diesel spill on Cayuga Inlet South of Ithaca NY ?  If so can you post the details. tnx

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I was fishing in Ithaca in November and signs were posted by the DEC all along the Cayuga Inlet  forbidding fishing until further notice due to diesel fuel contamination.

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I was fishing in Ithaca in November and signs were posted by the DEC all along the Cayuga Inlet  forbidding fishing until further notice due to diesel fuel contamination.

I had an article on the spill from the Syracuse Herald (?) on my site about three weeks ago.  I don’t know if the story is still up on their site, but I know my link is still up.  Check the Fishing News section, http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297/fishing.htm Mark Cahill’s Fishing New England – Daily Fishing News Also, a deja news search may turn up a post in this group at about the same time.  I forget who posted it, but he had fairly good detail on the spill. As I recall he reported a whole bunch of floating trout. — Mark Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297/fishing.htm Mark Cahill’s Fishing New England – Daily Fishing News http://www.reel-time.com/ The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing – Metropolitan Boston Regional Editor

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******* I was fishing in Ithaca in November and signs were posted by the DEC all along the Cayuga Inlet  forbidding fishing until further notice due to diesel fuel contamination. In a situation like this, is fishing forbidden or just keeping and eating? Why? William Buchman

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Question:

On July 6 a float tuber on Henry’s Lake drowned.  He flipped his tube and was able to get his head above water.  The article said he flipped it while trying to exit near shore.  I think it would pay to keep a knife readily accessible so one could pop the tube if necessary.  Any thoughts?

Response:

On July 6 a float tuber on Henry’s Lake drowned.  He flipped his tube and was able to get his head above water.  The article said he flipped it while trying to exit near shore.  I think it would pay to keep a knife readily accessible so one could pop the tube if necessary.  Any thoughts?

Hi Richard Several years ago I had a similar thing happen to me and would have drowned had a friend not been there to help. I’m not sure if a knife would have helped because I was in a bit of a panic while it was happening and I’m not sure if I would have been cleared headed enough to use it. Anyway shortly after that incident I purchased a pontoon kick/row boat and don’t have to face the problem every float tuber faces — that’s getting in and out of the water with a tube. The actual time in the tube is fairly safe but if you are going to make a mistake it will be when getting in or out of the tube. At least that’s what happened to me. Now you avid tubers don’t get excited, I switched to a pontoon boat for a different reason that you may suspect. As a man who’s getting older getting my crotch in the cold water resulted in a quick trip back to the bank to get rid of water. This doesn’t happen with a pontoon boat because only the bottom part of my leg is in the water. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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On July 6 a float tuber on Henry’s Lake drowned.  He flipped his tube and was able to get his head above water.  The article said he flipped it while trying to exit near shore.  I think it would pay to keep a knife readily accessible so one could pop the tube if necessary.  Any thoughts?

Yes. This was discussed last year too. There was also some discussion of tube failure. See following: Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: All USENET — www.net-link.com As a follow-up to a rather long and lively discussion of float tube safety here a few weeks ago I’d like to report on a near fatal incident I witnessed recently:   I was fishing Chopaka Lake, located in the N.E. portion of Washington state, near Okanagon at about 10:00 AM last Friday, June 7 when a float tube about 200 yards away suddenly ruptured with a loud boom (it sounded very much like a cherry bomb firecracker exploding on the surface of the water), followed immediately by the sound of frantic thrashing in the water.  I quickly pivoted my pontoon/kick boat to see a man about 100 yards away entangled in his float tube remains frantically attempting to swim to the shore – about 100 feet away. The secondary seat-back/safety tube was inflated and more or less being dragged along with the tube carcass somewhat behind and to the side of the victim. I managed to intercept him just as he was able to regain his footing, about 10 feet from shore in about 3 feet of water. He appeared to be exhausted and was extremely shaken by the incident. I spoke to him briefly after he had made it to shore and recovered somewhat.  He indicated that the float tube, including the inner tube, was about 10 years old (and it appeared to be quite weathered) and had developed a leak just the day before, which he had repaired with what looked like a standard, adhesive based, patch.  When he unzipped the tube we discovered a longitudinal rip, about 1-1/2 feet long, an inch or so below the inner-tube ’seam’ line.  About this time another angler in a row boat arrived to give the fellow a ride back to the campground on the other side of the lake so I was unable to examine the tube or get any further information.   I found this incident EXTREMELY disturbing, not only due to the near fatality of it (I doubt he could have made it another 100 feet) but also due to the sudden, catastrophic, nature of the float tube failure.  I mean this thing just suddenly, and without any real forewarning, EXPLODED and essentially sank on the spot.  I had previously assumed that the failure mode on these things would most likely be a fairly slow, though perhaps accelerating leak, that would give the occupant enough time to plan a strategy and respond accordingly.   I really regret that I did not have a chance to interview the victim or examine the tube further.  If anyone has additional information on this, or similar incidents, I would love to hear from them.  In lieu of that I have a few additional observations that might be of interest:    1)  The tube was a standard Caddis brand float tube (not a U-tube) and, as previously mentioned, about 10 years old.  It appeared to be quite weathered and faded but without any obvious patches, tears or other sign of abuse or problems.   2)  The inner tube had been deflated and re-installed just the day before.  This may suggest that perhaps the inner tube had not been placed or inflated properly, causing it to bind and stress the failed section.   3)  All the float tube seams and fabric appeared to be intact, with only the inner tube ruptured.  This really surprised me.  I had previously assumed that the inner tube could not rupture unless the encasing nylon structure had failed.  I may have overlooked something since I had very little time to examine the tube, but I can’t believe I could have overlooked a 1 1/2 foot tear!   4)  The tube ruptured with a very loud boom, suggesting excessive pressure may have been a factor.  I expect that at a typical rated float tube inflation pressure of 1-3 PSI such a rupture would make more of a ‘whoosh’ instead of the explosive noise we witnessed.  Don’t know for sure though.  Anyone out there willing to do the experiment <g?  Temperatures were pretty mild (probably about 70F at the time) but altitude (about 3000 feet) may have been a factor.  I know that both my pontoon boat and my wife’s float tube had to be deflated somewhat to accommodate the change in conditions (sea-level to 3000′). One other general observation that may bear on this:  About 2 years ago I had to replace a float tube inner tube that had deflated itself over the winter.  When I pulled the inner tube I discovered it had developed a series of closely spaced holes, along the circumference of the tube, in line with the float tube seam stitching.  It appeared that the seam stitching had stressed the rubber material (I had left the tube inflated year-around) causing it to fail.  The net effect was almost like a "tear on the line" perforation on a magazine pull-out. Mine did not tear or rupture, but the hole pattern could have conceivably led to that, particularly if the tube had been over-inflated or improperly re-installed.   I offer this report and these observations with the hope it will stimulate further discussion about the potential hazards of these marvelously useful devices.  Anyone with additional information or suggestions should feel free to email me or post follow-ups to this message.  I would also encourage any of you authors out there (or would be authors) to consider addressing this as a service to your fellow angler.  There are a lot of float tubes out there – and a lot of OLD float tubes for that matter – and I suspect we’ll be hearing more and more about this in the future.  My fervent hope is that we can avoid losing some of our angling brethren in the process.   -Wes Wes Neuenschwander Seattle, WA Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Kado’s Sand & Gravel I experienced a float tube failure last year.  My 11 year old tube was going strong, but one afternoon I noticed it had gone a bit soft.  Assuming the kids were letting the air out, I stopped at the gas station on the way to the pond.   Thoughout the evening I had headphones on, listening to the Broncos get rather thoroughly trounced by the Raiders.  About the end of the game, I noticed my elbows were getting wet.  Upon removing the headphones, I could hear the leak bubbling under water.  I paddled over to the shore, and got out.  No panic, no catastrophic failure.  I am clueless as to how a float tube, with no more than about 3lbs of air pressure, could fail with a catastrophic bang.  No offense to the originator of this thread, but I would have to hear it to believe it. The truck tire inner tube I use in my Buck’s Bag Float tube was over 10 years old.  Whan I stretched it out, obvious cracking in the rubber suggested a complete replacement was in order, rather than a patch.  Had I patched and continued to use this old tube, it will have failed again soon.  I would not want to have a rapid air loss, that would be no fun! So, in the future I will remember to replace my inner tube every 5 years.   That should be about a 50% overkill, since my first one lasted more than 10 years.  That will be in the year 2000, easy to remember. The previous thread about someone drowning in a float tube accident has sure led me to be more careful when getting in and out of the water.  That is the only time I ever feel vulnerable to getting up side down.  I have also replaced the inner tube "second chamber" with a couple of life preservers.  This is safer than a inner tube and satisfies the requirement in most states that you much have on board any water craft a life preserver for each occupant. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

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Regarding float tube safety, we have a standard practice of getting into fins, and tube on shore, then walking backwards into the water.  I agree, a knife would be hard to use in a panic, I think I would go for the release down between my legs and try and slide out…. On a side note, I did have a friend who passed out in a float tube last year, leaned forward and ended up drowning…..no one could get to her quick enough. We still thought something else went wrong, flipping a tube by simply leaning forward should be impossible, its not, we did some experiments and found that you can "flip" a tube if you lean forward for a you can help each other if needed, besides, the conversation, pictures and landing that "big one" or the 4 inch brookie is much more fun with someone to share it with!

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I think a two inch diameter tube would be nice to breath through while your cutting up the tube or trying to flip back. I used to own a Browning tube and I would probably drown before I was able to cut my way out of the tube. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On July 6 a float tuber on Henry’s Lake drowned.  He flipped his tube and was able to get his head above water.  The article said he flipped it while trying to exit near shore.  I think it would pay to keep a knife readily accessible so one could pop the tube if necessary.  Any thoughts?

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -[snip] Now pardon me while I go and bake this Steelhead.  The only one I kept this year out of thirty released. Sincerely, Mr. Gink — MZ          You should be commended for releasing 29, not admonished for keeping one.Seems to me that you might be better to lambast someone who threatens the existence of the population by unchecked and uncontrolled unethical outlaw activity. The only real sin in using a resource is in waste or destruction of it. The resposibility that comes with the right of use is to insure protection from waste and destruction. Careful management (by management I don’t mean stocking programs) t

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a steelhead let alone caught one – steelhead are extrememly resilent; mortalities are low with all sorts    of tackle; in BC steelhead for hatchery brood are kept for week and even   months and mostly caught with hook and line; mortality is less than    5% well under – for a good steelheader 30 a year isn’t a large number – chances are of the 29 George released none died So while what you say is nice it doesn’t relate to the post. Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -. I probably never visit that place again, for fear that I may slip and mention that I actually use HOOKs to catch fish. I not making any comparisons between he and you, mind you. Oh, I love the Gink, by the way.                                     Tight lines,                                     Stephen Di Cerbo

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I think C&R itself has contributed more than many of us would care to admit to the degradation of many trout waters.  It has created a false sense that because we C&R we in doing so commit no harm, so we may go and do as we please.  I know of at least 2-3 C&R only waters that today absolutely suck as fisheries, because the bottoms are all ripped up, the banks all pounded down and the fish C&R’d to death.

All too often, c&r is used as a way to "fish more," and feel good about it.  More and more, I have heard people say that if they were keeping fish on a prolific stream, they might be done fishing in less than an hour, but if they release everything, they can fish all day.  Most of them accept that c&r mortality is probably around 10%, but believe that their personal rate is much lower, like 1%.  Some of them learned to flyfish about a year ago. Fishing less can be difficult, but face it, catching 50-100 fish in a day sounds a lot like gluttony, IMHO.  There’s no reason to catch more fish when you’re releasing them than you would if you were keeping them (is there?).  It’s more difficult to be sure, since you’re not restricted by law, but by self-discipline, but it can make for a more relaxed day when you’re not trying to see how many fish you can catch in a day. CQ

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IN support and response of George and others I too forward some opinions. Heritage is but an eliquant excuse.  I believe that within the FFing community those who take a fish or two are considered as unholy.  Many threads have been spun on this topic i know.  THe point I wish to make is that the users of ANY resource are diverse.  The chance to keep fish is what fuels some, and the chance to C&R others.  What must be remebered by all us is the resource. Many different management stategies have been tried across north america, some working and some not.  The C&R strategy is but one.  I think as we sit and look at others and their use within a strategy that moderation and toleration are required.  A quote to potententially contemplate "Anyone can manage the resource.  It’s managing the users that presents the problem" Aldo Leopold. Something else to consider on this topic is the basic population structure of a fishery.  To look at the number of any one age of fish graphically sees many young and few old (or small/large).  THis is the basis for the slot limits some of you may know so well.  This method allows for both C&R volentary or regualted as well as kill, always keeping the population in mind. Finally to end this rant, FF’ers are but one of the multitude of fishers out there.  We tend to fish streams and fish for trout and that’s where our world ends.  In Canada, Ontario where I live each spring on any lake whihc holds pickerel (Walleye) a floatila of boats forms whihc one could walk across (in certain places).  These anglers do not sport flyrods and do intend on taking fish home.  So then in looking at all fishermen of all types, I would put forward the thought that keeping fish is "what’s done" and C&R is still a mystery to most. What I advocate is a concern for the resource by each induvidual.   Understanding whats going on within a system allows for true concern and protection of any system.  To just do something because it’s the "norm" is not the way to manage or use a resource. Thoughts to consider every time one goes fishing.  The act of wading may be of greater concern then catching a realesing or keeping a fish.   Further that the fish most of use seek are "naturalized", that is with little exception rainbows came from west slope drainges (i.e. the pacific), browns came from germany and brookies from the north and east. The fish we seek are aliens which forced out the natives.   Don’t get me wrong, I love to fish, and fish for rainbows, and browns, these are just things to consider. Ian

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well said; I agree completely. it’s time to move beyond a simple C&R vs C&K debate and find ways of returning quality to the experience. And who gets to define Quality of Experience ?  I could catch a 15 pounder from the Frying Pan river and have zero QOE. TimW There was a time when openning day on the Battenkill was an event! People arrived the evenning before, built fires, drank some, swapped stories…now days you are very lucky to find a fisherman on the Battenkill, much less catch a fish…in fact VT Fish and Game have been trying to complete a creel study on the river but have not been able to survey enough fisherman…because the fisherman aren’t there!  Now, a big part of the Battenkills problem has been the 12 fish limit on the river and live bait fisherman killing their limit.  There is no quality experience left for anyone…period!  Somewhere out there is the balance that will restore the quality of experience for all fishers…being absolute about any one agenda..other than doing what is right for the fish…is not going to return the quality fishing experience to the Battenkill.

Extremely interesting to me.   I might have to give the Battenkill a whirl, sounds like my kind of river. Give me the possibility of a fish, however remote, and solitude over many fish and fishermen any day of the week. TimW

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Nice post,

Yes, it was….. but Catch and Kill is far from the greatest threat to our fisheries.

I would say amen to that. In fact I think one could argue that management of a fishery may well require some catch and kill to maintain a healthy population.

It will require much more than that.  It will require a whole different approach.  Lotteries, moratoriums, and other methods of reducing the usage of our trout waters are needed to reduce habitat degradation and to promote renewal of wild stocks. But lets talk *Heritage* for a moment.  Lets talk about the Heritage to cut the forest, mine the mountains and use our rivers for sewers. We pass off these heritages as *Rights*…I find it very difficult to accept from some of the people that post to this newsgroup their obsession with catch and release, and their unwillingness to be equally militant regarding the damage done by industry to our streams.

I too find it difficult to accept this near-religious fervor many hold for the "Sacred Cow" (C&R), especially when the real damage to our waters continue unabated. I think C&R itself has contributed more than many of us would care to admit to the degradation of many trout waters.  It has created a false sense that because we C&R we in doing so commit no harm, so we may go and do as we please.  I know of at least 2-3 C&R only waters that today absolutely suck as fisheries, because the bottoms are all ripped up, the banks all pounded down and the fish C&R’d to death. I’m not advocating C&K here.  What I am advocating is a kinder & gentler approach to how we view our rivers, and what we as fishers are doing to them.  We need to lighten up. </c — Chaz Clover "Hemoroids. There, I said it!"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is my view that although Catch and Kill is viewed by many as ‘A Heritage’ to a right to kill is in fact rightfully going the way of the passenger pigeon and bison mentality.  Like it or not.  This is not to say that taking fish to eat that are within the legal limit is wrong. It is getting to be tougher or harder to justify the taking under the old ruse of need.  As our wildlife inventories decrease daily under the weight of a burgeoning population explosion, the concept begins to sink in its own quicksand

Question:

Hi I live in Malaysia (Kuala Lumpur) and I would really like to go somewhere and do some fly fishing in Malaysia. The problem is that I have not been able to find anything about fly fishing here. It seems like this sport has not arrived here yet. Is there anyone out there who can help me on this. I started fly fishing in Sweden, but moved to Malaysia before I really got the hang of it. So I do need to get starting again. Also, is there a shop where I can buy stuff for tying my own flies here? Thanks for any replies /Bengt Thur

Question:

: I’ve tried several times to subscribe to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying : through AOL’s expert add – I get a message telling me this group is : "invalid"  Any suggestions would be appreciated. Wait.   the group is not officially formed yet. Check elsewhere in the group for RESULTS: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying vote Jon Porter

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I’ve tried several times to subscribe to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying through AOL’s expert add – I get a message telling me this group is "invalid"  Any suggestions would be appreciated. Bill Battles

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Question:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. I am finishing up a Masters degree in Film from American University and have been posed with the challenge of writing a ten-minute script illuminating the joys and tribulations of fly fishing–specifically, fly fishing for trout. Why fly fishing? Any response, e-mail or posted, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Chris Strobel Dear Chris; Because it is the best/only way to catch a trout after the middle of May when the critters start to focus-in on bugs. Thank-you.  That is all. Jason Beary

Chris,  for me its the ability not to have to leave the sport in the off season.  Tying flys, reading, studying the entomology and biology is fascinating, and it fills up snowy evenings – a glass of Merlot, a pattern book and a pile for fur and feathers – that I turn into a "bug" that will fool a fish.  Not such a lofty pursuit, but an absorbing one. jg Huntington NY

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Part of the lure(?? a pun)of flyfishing for me is that you are taking materials such as fur,feathers,yarn etc.which if cast upon the waters by themselves would produce nothing. If you take the same materials ,combine them in such a way,to create a fly,(which hopefully will resemble a natural)and present it to a fish,and the fish takes it..Well thats satisfying. I guess that it is that you are in complete control of part of the game(buying the materials,what you buy,your skill etc.)but once you put it on the water ,its up,to the fish.And the fish taking your fly or not is the measure of success or failure.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. I am finishing up a Masters degree in Film from American University and have been posed with the challenge of writing a ten-minute script illuminating the joys and tribulations of fly fishing–specifically, fly fishing for trout.  Does it have something to do with the peacefulness of the stream, or is there a particular challenge to fly fishing that the rest of us don’t know about and wouldn’t understand?   Having never been much of a fisherman (other than the bluegill from a small lake in my childhood) I don’t have experience with fly fishing and was wondering if anyone would like to tell me why they do what they do… Why fly fishing? Any response, e-mail or posted, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Chris Strobel

Chris, "Penthouse" or "Playboy" would never ask a virgin to write a story about sex. And your question, why fly fishing?, sounds just about as silly as that virgin asking people, "why do you enjoy sex". Ya just gotta try it to underestand it! Do some research on your own, fishing that is. Take a leason or two, go fishing and then write your script. Short of that, you’re just writing an expos

Question:

I’ve read that nylon pantyhose makes a great shuck imitation.   -Clyde

Response:

I’ve read that nylon pantyhose makes a great shuck imitation.  

And, its great fun to watch them get taken off!

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I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a

Check Gary LaFoine’s book "The Dry Fly", in it he has a pattern called the Buzz Ball that is suppose to imitated a midge cluster on the surface like one would see on some back water on the San Juan or similar river. good luck Mark Powers Boston

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I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a pattern that imitates  the midge during those few seconds that it sits dry on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck…apparently the moment of greatest vulnerability.  Both the midge and the shuck or on the surface (shuck may be in the film). Anyone had good luck with a pattern of this type?

I am wondering if a double tippet could be made to the midge a few inches from the shuck?   Put a hook in both if the trout cannot make up its mind.  Be interesting to see if the shuck or the midge get hit on most often. here a change to come up with a new pattern.  And we wonder where did they all come from.  :-)   Happy new year!

Response:

The thing I’m looking for is a pattern that imitates  the midge during those

 few seconds that it sits dry on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck… I use your typical Griffith’s Gnat tied w/ a small plume of grey CDC feathers as a tail to imitate the trailing shuck.

Yours virtually, Gary W. Godden Denver, Colorado

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a pattern that imitates  the midge during those few seconds that it sits dry on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck…apparently the moment of greatest vulnerability.  Both the midge and the shuck or on the surface (shuck may be in the film). Anyone had good luck with a pattern of this type? I am wondering if a double tippet could be made to the midge a few inches from the shuck?   Put a hook in both if the trout cannot make up its mind.  Be interesting to see if the shuck or the midge get hit on most often. here a change to come up with a new pattern.  And we wonder where did they all come from.  :-)   Happy new year!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Out here in Colorado we use something called a Stuck-In -Shuck midge.  It’s a good slow-water fly on the South Platte where winter trout seem to sometimes prefer emerging midges over full adults. The dressing is simple.  The tail, or "shuck" is a few strands of brown antron, or Z-lon. the body is thread, or peacock.  A few strands of white antron, Z-lon, or poly are tied in at the butt, and pulled over the body. This should be a little on the loose side, creating a kind of bubble.  Some people put a couple wraps of grizzly hackle, trimmed top, and bottom in front for better floatation.  This fly should be dressed to let the fly float in the film. I don’t know who dreamt this fly up, but I think it’s a pretty good one! Chaz — Chaz Clover Fly Tier, Fly Design, Riverkeeper.

I fish the tiny spring creeks in WI and the best surface/film pattern that I have tried is nothing radical: Griffith’s Gnat. I tie it on a size 22 wide gap 1XF hook. Peacock Body (short flue, taken from near the butt rather than the eye) and Top Quality (Hoffman) Grizzly also short (no longer than to point). Fished on 6X tippet with silicon paste applied on 3 inches about 6 inches from the fly. this: a. keeps it on top, b. if you position yourself just right it acts a an indicator, and c. allows the fly to move naturally. I don’t apply floatant to the fly as it makes it ride too high causing for short hits. Quarter it upstream and dead drift. Good Luck.

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: I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my : pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even : semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a : pattern that imitates  the midge during those few seconds that it sits dry : on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck…apparently the moment : of greatest vulnerability.  Both the midge and the shuck or on the surface : (shuck may be in the film). : Anyone had good luck with a pattern of this type? I do quite a bit of midge fishing, especially late in the season as it gets colder.  I’ve found that a #26 or 28 works very well for the large (but oh so rare) browns here in VT.  I don’t use a trailing shuck pattern, however.  I use a simple black or red thread body (no tail) with a grizzly, black, or cream hackle.  The red body is easy to spot, and it seems to work!  I rarely get refused with this pattern, and it’s very simple to tie.  In addition, it feeds my growing opinion that the presentation is (slightly?) more important than the fly choice (please, no flame wars on this one, both are important!)   I don’t usually fish this one blind, and not at long distances (usually about 20-25′).  I find that 7 or 8X tippets make sense, as well as a challenge for a big fish. Hans

Response:

I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a pattern that imitates  the midge during those few seconds that it sits dry on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck…apparently the moment of greatest vulnerability.  Both the midge and the shuck or on the surface (shuck may be in the film). Anyone had good luck with a pattern of this type?

Response:

Out here in Colorado we use something called a Stuck-In -Shuck midge.  It’s a good slow-water fly on the South Platte where winter trout seem to sometimes prefer emerging midges over full adults. The dressing is simple.  The tail, or "shuck" is a few strands of brown antron, or Z-lon. the body is thread, or peacock.  A few strands of white antron, Z-lon, or poly are tied in at the butt, and pulled over the body. This should be a little on the loose side, creating a kind of bubble.  Some people put a couple wraps of grizzly hackle, trimmed top, and bottom in front for better floatation.  This fly should be dressed to let the fly float in the film. I don’t know who dreamt this fly up, but I think it’s a pretty good one! Chaz — Chaz Clover Fly Tier, Fly Design, Riverkeeper.

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