Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?  I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Did you actually _read_ the quote in your signature? <G R …does "Padishar Creel" mean "shit stirrer" in elf<G? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I have some pics (somewhere) from a hookmaker in Redditch England  and they use a number of very simple machines just dedicated to one task such as forming the eye and one for putting on the bend etc. Cane rods are difficult because cane is a very difficult material  to work with and a 4ft strip of cane takes ‘x’ amount of time to machine. There is a feed and speed relationship that cannot be bridged, everything takes time. You can develop machines making it possible to employ an operator for $10 per hour and break the craft down into managable steps (as did Henry Ford)  It does not matter how you cut it, cane can never be cheap. If George had any production experience he would not have mouthed off so much before ever building a rod. He really listened to the wrong people. But if he can knock out the blanks at a timely rate and find a market for them which I am sure there is then he can scrape by. Terry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?  I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot Did you actually _read_ the quote in your signature? <G …does "Padishar Creel" mean "shit stirrer" in elf<G?

—— Richard, your so right!  I thought stiring stuff about about fly fishing might be able to compete with all the political pot stiring.  I see I may have been right… —- Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality:  1. Bamboo Rods  2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?  I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

I know I said I’d lurk a while without chiming in much, but I can’t resist —- I WANNA BUY A BITCH!!! <BFG

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have some pics (somewhere) from a hookmaker in Redditch England  and they use a number of very simple machines just dedicated to one task such as forming the eye and one for putting on the bend etc. Cane rods are difficult because cane is a very difficult material  to work with and a 4ft strip of cane takes ‘x’ amount of time to machine. There is a feed and speed relationship that cannot be bridged, everything takes time. You can develop machines making it possible to employ an operator for $10 per hour and break the craft down into managable steps (as did Henry Ford)  It does not matter how you cut it, cane can never be cheap. If George had any production experience he would not have mouthed off so much before ever building a rod. He really listened to the wrong people. But if he can knock out the blanks at a timely rate and find a market for them which I am sure there is then he can scrape by. Terry What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?  I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Scrape by?  I have a standing order for 1000 blanks.  Scrape by?  Surely you jest Ackland? — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality:  1. Bamboo Rods  2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?  I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot I know I said I’d lurk a while without chiming in much, but I can’t resist —- I WANNA BUY A BITCH!!! <BFG

See?  There are so many spin off’s to my genius.  You’re all welcome.   — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot Did you actually _read_ the quote in your signature? <G …does "Padishar Creel" mean "shit stirrer" in elf<G? —— Richard, your so right!  I thought stiring stuff about about fly fishing might be able to compete with all the political pot stiring.  I see I may have been right…

Oh, what the hell… You mean you want to hear about the Duke of Erl’s plan to corner the hook market? And awa-a-a-y we go……<G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —– Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?  I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?…

You want quality – and quantity? Well, there’s a bankrupt faker living in a single-wide on the Snake River that is bound to respond to your question. However, you should understand that he knows nothing about either. Set mode = ignore for your own sanity.

Response:

Scrape by would be the right term to use. Mr. Sage can wrap a $4 piece of Carbon fiber around a mandrel in 5 minutes and get more than you can get for your blanks. Sad but true, Terry   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have some pics (somewhere) from a hookmaker in Redditch England  and they use a number of very simple machines just dedicated to one task such as forming the eye and one for putting on the bend etc. Cane rods are difficult because cane is a very difficult material  to work with and a 4ft strip of cane takes ‘x’ amount of time to machine. There is a feed and speed relationship that cannot be bridged, everything takes time. You can develop machines making it possible to employ an operator for $10 per hour and break the craft down into managable steps (as did Henry Ford)  It does not matter how you cut it, cane can never be cheap. If George had any production experience he would not have mouthed off so much before ever building a rod. He really listened to the wrong people. But if he can knock out the blanks at a timely rate and find a market for them which I am sure there is then he can scrape by. Terry What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?  I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot Scrape by?  I have a standing order for 1000 blanks.  Scrape by?  Surely you jest Ackland? — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?

Let me put it to you this way… Let’s say you were able to sell 200 bamboo rods per year with a profit (after advertising, components, amortized equipment costs, salaries, etc) of $150 per rod. You’d make a whopping $30,000/year. You could do worse, of course, but there are *lots* of ways to make that much money with fewer startup costs and less risk. So let’s say that rather than trying to start a production line, you make them one-by-one instead. Quality over quantity. So, you buy a Morgan Hand Mill ($2500) and various other tools of the trade (another $1000–I know you could do it for less but if you were making professional quality rods you’d need professional quality tools). Then, you could–once you got a reputation–sell your rods for somewhere between $900 and $1500. Let’s say $1200, with a profit of $1000 per rod. So, let’s say it takes you 40 hours per rod. Assuming a 2000 hour year and unlimited demand, you could sell 50 rods and make an even more whopping $50,000/year. But the key here is unlimited demand. I’d be shocked if there are more than a couple of full-time custom builders making more than $30K/year. You can live off of $30K/year, of course. But you could make more money with less risk by taking a two-month computer training course. Plus you could get paid to read ROFF So why don’t you do this: build ten rods for the fun and experience of it. Since they won’t be perfect rods, give them away. You’ll have a great time, learn some of the tricks of the trade, and a few other folks will get to fish with the fruits of your labors. After you make ten rods, chances are that some of the pleasure will wear off and the reality that making rod-building a profession would be hard, tedious work will begin to set in. Sounds somehow familiar –Steve

Response:

Why do I think that there are some folks who already get paid to read ROFF even without having taken a computer training course?  Or is that just cynical?  ;-) JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some very interesting stuff about bamboo start-up costs snipped. You can live off of $30K/year, of course. But you could make more money with less risk by taking a two-month computer training course. Plus you could get paid to read ROFF

Response:

Why do I think that there are some folks who already get paid to read ROFF even without having taken a computer training course?  Or is that just cynical?

Ah, good point. You clearly understand the concept of (mis)using OPM <g. –Steve

Response:

What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality:  1. Bamboo Rods  2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?  I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine.  Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? Let me put it to you this way… Let’s say you were able to sell 200 bamboo rods per year with a profit (after advertising, components, amortized equipment costs, salaries, etc) of $150 per rod. You’d make a whopping $30,000/year. You could do worse, of course, but there are *lots* of ways to make that much money with fewer startup costs and less risk. So let’s say that rather than trying to start a production line, you make them one-by-one instead. Quality over quantity.  

______  This is the hole in your thesis Steve.  "Quality over Quantity" It is now possible and it is now being done here to have both because a machine can do more accurately what a human can do with a plane, and do it a hundred times better. And cheaper.  This equates into being a Bastard, I guess. George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? Let me put it to you this way… Let’s say you were able to sell 200 bamboo rods per year with a profit (after advertising, components, amortized equipment costs, salaries, etc) of $150 per rod. You’d make a whopping $30,000/year. You could do worse, of course, but there are *lots* of ways to make that much money with fewer startup costs and less risk. So let’s say that rather than trying to start a production line, you make them one-by-one instead. Quality over quantity. ______  This is the hole in your thesis Steve.  "Quality over Quantity" It is now possible and it is now being done here to have both because a machine can do more accurately what a human can do with a plane, and do it a hundred times better. And cheaper.  This equates into being a Bastard, I guess. George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

_______  By the way Steve, what are you paying for one Clum of Bamboo now and where are you buying it from? — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

ND#1

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? Let me put it to you this way… Let’s say you were able to sell 200 bamboo rods per year with a profit (after advertising, components, amortized equipment costs, salaries, etc) of $150 per rod. You’d make a whopping $30,000/year. You could do worse, of course, but there are *lots* of ways to make that much money with fewer startup costs and less risk. So let’s say that rather than trying to start a production line, you make them one-by-one instead. Quality over quantity. So, you buy a Morgan Hand Mill ($2500) and various other tools of the trade (another $1000–I know you could do it for less but if you were making professional quality rods you’d need professional quality tools). Then, you could–once you got a reputation–sell your rods for somewhere between $900 and $1500. Let’s say $1200, with a profit of $1000 per rod. So, let’s say it takes you 40 hours per rod. Assuming a 2000 hour year and unlimited demand, you could sell 50 rods and make an even more whopping $50,000/year. But the key here is unlimited demand. I’d be shocked if there are more than a couple of full-time custom builders making more than $30K/year. You can live off of $30K/year, of course. But you could make more money with less risk by taking a two-month computer training course. Plus you could get paid to read ROFF So why don’t you do this: build ten rods for the fun and experience of it. Since they won’t be perfect rods, give them away. You’ll have a great time, learn some of the tricks of the trade, and a few other folks will get to fish with the fruits of your labors. After you make ten rods, chances are that some of the pleasure will wear off and the reality that making rod-building a profession would be hard, tedious work will begin to set in. Sounds somehow familiar –Steve

Response:

Question:

One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman.

 There’s an area in Utah where I’ve fished for years, with my Grandpa, and dad.. This is just a farmers field, where the Weber river cuts off, but really good fishing…  The owner started charging 10$ per, due to garbage left by others.. It seems that those who were littering don’t feel like paying, so it’s clean now.. But still costs… And I skipped ahead.. I agree, I did get the main point… My dad’s ALWAYS taught us to leave the areas we go cleaner than when we got there…

Response:

Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .    . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .  . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .     . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .     + .  ~~~  . * . +

bullshit……. canadian take more pride in their waters than most ever visit the great white north????? well youcan still drink the water out of most of the lakes and rivers there….. as for polluters.. maybe we should look more at the american mine companies in northern ontario for what is really polluting our waters?//

Response:

I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!! One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman. The landowner even posted signs warning people that he would close the area if the littering continued. The next signs he put up were " No Trespassing- Violaters will be Prosecuted". I have talked to him and tried to get permission to fish. His response " blame it on your fellow fisherman".

   I was out paddling a canoe this past spring looking for spawning grounds, saw a few beds, also many sunken beer cans. Really sucks.

Response:

Cutam281 Writes: There are alot of lazy ass people whom continue to carelessly polute our rivers & lakes…I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!

KEW Writes: you could get arrested forsuspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. kw

Cutam281 Writes: Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….

KEW Writes: Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw

NO!! You wake up "KEW"!!!   The way you keep comming up with excuse after excuse to sink beer cans leads me to believe that YOU are most likely one of those whom do the sinking… If the laws in Illinois and elsewhere are strict on beer being comsumed while on water, then you and others should find another beverage to drink while boating and obey your state laws!!  If you must have your alcohol then wait till you get back on dry land & drink…As I said, "There is NO excuse for littering our water AT ALL!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

bullshit……. canadian take more pride in their waters than most ever visit the great white north????? well youcan still drink the water out of most of the lakes and rivers there….. as for polluters.. maybe we should look more at the american mine companies in northern ontario for what is really polluting our waters?//

Hey Mark, Try telling this to "KEW"… He seems to have accused Canadian guides of sinking beer cans… Hey KEW, Are you sure you witnessed them sinking the cans?? Maybe what you actually saw was the guide pulling some sunken cans OUT of the water.. Hahahahahaha!!!!!! ~    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NO!! You wake up "KEW"!!!   The way you keep comming up with excuse after excuse to sink beer cans leads me to believe that YOU are most likely one of those whom do the sinking… If the laws in Illinois and elsewhere are strict on beer being comsumed while on water, then you and others should find another beverage to drink while boating and obey your state laws!! If you must have your alcohol then wait till you get back on dry land & drink…As I said, "There is NO excuse for littering our water AT ALL!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

reason why you see beer cans strewn along the highways too…but do I care…. no way.  I offered an analysis…. you offered — WHAT? kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hey Mark, Try telling this to "KEW"… He seems to have accused Canadian guides of sinking beer cans… Hey KEW, Are you sure you witnessed them sinking the cans?? Maybe what you actually saw was the guide pulling some sunken cans OUT of the water.. Hahahahahaha!!!!!! ~    . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

///// I was not accusing "Canadian guides" ……. at least not in general.  In fact, I didn’t accuse anyone.  I simply pointed out a direct observation.. You don’t have to believe it…. why would I care?. kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw That excuse doesn’t hold beer.  Some states have such laws while others don’t but you wouldn’t be able to tell which is which from the beer can litter on the water, or anywhere else, for that matter.  Personally, I think that states should raise beer can deposits to $2 per can. Then, if the drinkers are still too lazy, there will at least be a substantial incentive for others to pick up after them.  Who knows, someone might even get a franchise going, something like "Surrogate Mothers of America", with the slogan "We’re still picking up after you !" greg pavlov  [not affiliated with Canisius College]

I share the same sentiments of raising the deposits on beer/liquor containers up in the "$$$" range. This would make people think twice about chucking their cans anywhere.

Response:

WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM.

I can totaly relate to your post…. There are alot of lazy ass people whom continue to carelessly polute our rivers & lakes…I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!

One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman. The landowner even posted signs warning people that he would close the area if the littering continued. The next signs he put up were " No Trespassing- Violaters will be Prosecuted". I have talked to him and tried to get permission to fish. His response " blame it on your fellow fisherman".

Response:

WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM.

If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. kw

Response:

If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place…..

Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason.

Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

I think all of you missed my point!!! It’s not just beer cans it’s garbage in general. the point I was trying  to make is that we all have to do our part to clean things up!!!  You can’t blame people….You have to take action. Next time you see some garbage PICK IT UP!!! Set an example that it’s the IN thing to do!!! Show kids it’s cool to clean up even if it’s not yours!! TEACH BY EXAMPLE!!!! It is easy to sit here and write about it. DO IT!!!! So enough said, I thought I’d get a positive response, not a blame it on someone else session. THANK YOU TO ALL WHO READ THIS AND UNDERSTOOD WHAT I SAID AND PICKED UP  SOME GARBAGE THE LAST TIME THEY FOUND SOME!

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I STOOD IN MY WADERS THIS EVENING IN A RIVER NOT FAR FROM MY HOUSE. IT IS A RIVER NOTED FOR SMALL MOUTH BASS, CATFISH, WALLEYE, MUSKIE , PIKE , PANFISH, ALL WHICH ARE ABUNDANT. AS I WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM. THERE WAS A  GROUP OF FISHERMAN WHO WERE NEAR THE DAM FISHING UNDER THE FROTH FOR CATFISH I SUPPOSE. I’M NOT HERE TO BLAME ANYONE…… BUT I STARTED TO THINK OF HOW FAR THE RIVER HAS COME FROM WHAT IT WAS. I USED TO HEAR ABOUT THE RIVER AND HOW DIRTY IT WAS. THERE WERE NO FISH AND SO ON. TODAY THE RIVER IS A TROPHY FISHERY THANKS TO THE WORK OF MANY VOLUNTEERS AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME. SO THIS IS JUST A REMINDER TO LEAVE THE AREA YOU FISH BETTER THAN THE WAY YOU FOUND IT. PICK UP SOME TRASH AND THROW IT AWAY….EVEN IF IT’S NOT YOURS. REMEMBER TO EDUCATE THE YOUNG AND SHOW THEM BY EXAMPLE LIKE MY FATHER DID. LET’S TRY TO MAKE AN EXTRA EFFORT TO CONTINUE TO MAKE OUR RIVERS, LAKES , PONDS AND STREAMS BETTER PLACES TO FISH FOR EVERYONE!!                                                        BECAUSE I LOVE TO FISH!!

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Question:

quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance

Response:

quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance

The question asks what great Canadian brands of fly rod there might be.  The short answer is none: 1.  No one makes their own blanks (plastic or cane) (so far as I know.) 2.  There are few rod making factories (as distinct from individual craftsmen), none reputed for high-quality rods. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance

Premi

Question:

Jim: In addition to the excellent suggestions made by Bob, I would suggest you also look at Cortland and Reddington.  Both make rod/reel/line combos, probably falling somewhere in between the low and medium price range.  Cortland’s usually includes a video that may be helpful.  Also, the Sage Discovery series has a combo that is worth a look that isn’t exhorbitantly priced.  All of those manufacturers will have dealers somewhere that should allow you to try the rods before buying, to see what feels best for you.  On the mail order side, Cabela’s has a number of combos available. Of course, a good fly shop will be able to work with you and put together a package that works too. Once you’ve got all that stuff, you’ll need some flies.  They seem to run between $1 and $2 apiece for decent flies where I live.  Hopefully you’ve already got some waders and wading shoes/boots. URL’s Cortland  <http://www.lightlink.com/cortland Cabela’s  <http://www.cabelas.com While looking at the combo packages, don’t think that because they are less expensive than the top of the line they are junk.  On the contrary. You may eventually want to move up in quality, but a good package from a good manufacturer should serve you in good stead for quite some time (until you just gotta have that high end Winston, Loomis, T & T etc. <grin) Good luck and happy shopping. Ron.

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Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight.  The 5 is incredibly versatile for trout and other freshwater fish, while the 9 will give you a great saltwater rod for bluefish, stripers, bonefish and permit, as well as offering you the opportunity to pull in some big steelhead.  You can get the whole nine yards from Orvis for around $400 for each rod/reel combo–and that includes the line and cases.  Of course, you’ll also want to invest in a good pair of waders, a vest, flies, etc…my advice would be to talk to a guide in the area where you will be doing most of your fishing. Enjoy. E

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Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight…

Jim, This is the beginning of the end. Once you’ve got the five weight and the nine weight, and a reel and line to go with each, and the jacket and the bags, and the flies and the boxes, you’ll be in too deep to get out. Like the rest of us. Andrew                     The History of Fly Fishing             http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight… Jim, This is the beginning of the end. Once you’ve got the five weight and the nine weight, and a reel and line to go with each, and the jacket and the bags, and the flies and the boxes, you’ll be in too deep to get out. Like the rest of us. Andrew                    The History of Fly Fishing            http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

        Dear new found friends- I really wanted to thank all of you for your generosity of time and advise- I’ve quite frankly been amazed at the number of you in the NG that were willing to spend the amount of time you have to help a total neophyte.  Of course I realized after receiving some response that I was too ignorant to have given you all any pertinent info about what the heck I might be trying to catch-Dah!!         So let me fill you in about who you were trying to help         I’m a 55 yr old about to retire dentist- and before any of you start to wonder about why I shoul give a darn about how much this stuff costs- I must add that I’m also in possesion of the first dollar I ever made- enough said.  I’m in Ohio and plan to fish local waters for smallmouth and panfish.  I also wish to fish for trout around the Petoskey, MI area and to accompany my 82 yr old uncle ( who is still an avid trout guy) out west.         The real reason for the post was that I had heard(my ignorance) stories about $2000 outfits.  So I went to the local sportschain store to see for myself what a flyrod actually looked and felt like. They had complete outfits that really looked to me to be kind of junky and the personnel had NOT a clue about flyfishing- even I figured that out.         So although I pretty much knew I didn’t want the junk I also wasn’t real keen on walking into a REAL shop and being talked into $2000 worth of stuff without any knowledge of the alternatives.  You guys have been so kind as to give me inumerable sorces of quqlity gear at reasonable getting started prices and for that I am very grateful!!         So thanks again for the input and you should be proud of your knowledge and the "art" that you share so willingly with others.                 With kindest personal regards,                                 Jim PS.  And Dr. Andrew- Sorry but I fear that I got in "too deep" several weeks ago in Michigan.  I stood on the banks of a small stream for quite a while watching entranced as one of your compatriots plied his magic with fly rod on the stream- it was very close to a spirtual experience that I believe I want to share beside all of you.

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   Could you please, if you have the time and inclination, list some tackle and gear combinations in perhaps three general price combinations- Low,Med, Top of the line.  I’d be interested in specific brand recommendations so that I can research these.

The gear market is quite a varied lot right now, so I’ll just give you some average rod/reel/line combo prices, okay? Bargain Basement End:   (Shakespeare, etc. ) $50 Low End:  (Orvis Clearwater, Bean Angler, etc.)  $150 Middle Ground:  $300 High End:  $600+ Ridiculous End: (custom bamboo, etc.)  $1500+ Depending upon your financial situation with your pending retirement, I’d recommend you jump in on the Low to Middle Ground.  I’m not sure what you’re fishing for, but for a standard trout rig, I’d recommend that you buy a decent rod, a top-end flyline, and a reel….in that order of importance.  (IMHO).  For fish under 6 lbs, with a reasonably stout tippet/leader, a click-pawl style reel will serve you nicely. For larger fish or lighter tippets, consider upgrading to a disc-drag style reel.  The more popular manufacturers/retailers in the industry today are Sage, Loomis, Orvis, LL Bean for rods.   I’d highly recommend trying a few rod/reel combinations from a local flyshop to see what type of action/length, etc. that you prefer.  The shop owners will also be able to point you to the other "necessities" which you’ll need.      Also, could you point me toward URL’s that have online catalog pricing or that I can order printed catalogs.

Here’s a couple that will start you on your research. www.llbean.com      (L.L. Bean….ask for a FFing Spec. Catalog) www.orvis.com     (Orvis….same as above) There are others online too , but both of these retailers have a range of products to illustrate the price ranges mentioned above. Good Luck! Bob Skehan

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   I’d be interested in some kind folks giving me some input as to the general start up costs involved in starting out on this adventure.  My it is very difficult- not to mention TIME consuming-to reply to- so I wouldn’t be suprised if I don’t catch anything from this post- we all have our time consrtaints- but let me thank you in advance if you are kind enough to reply.    Again, thank you for you kind consideration,            Regards, Jim

I think you’re making a good choice to get involved if flyfishing.  If nothing else, your retirement won’t be boring.   I don’t have any sage advice to pass on, but; I do have a short story. I read all of the books and learned to flyfish basically by myself.  I had been actively flyfishing (mostly once or twice a month) for about ten years.  We were visiting Reno NV. for a few months and I was really injoying the fishing in the Truckee River there.  I’d come home in the evening and tell my wife all of the great stuff I’d done and what a wonderful day I’d had.  After a while, she wanted to join in the fun.  She asked me if she minded if she learned to fish and came fishing wiht me.  I told her I would love it she joined me but, I was unsure of my ablilty to teach her to fish (I was also a little worried about the friction me teaching her to fish would cause). Being a very smart woman, she understood my position.  She got on the phone and called the fly shop in Reno (I don’t recall thier name but I think it’s the only one in town).  She explained her situation to them, and asked for help.  What they offered was simple, two days with and veteran guide and the use of thier equipment.  The first half of the first day was inside she learned the knots and terminology she needed.  After lunch, she learned to cast.  The next day, they fished. I don’t remember what she paid for this but it seems if was just a regular guide fee for two days.  After fishing, she was hooked and bought an outfit they recommended to her (actually a bargain clearout model they happened to have). After those two days of concentrated instruction, she could fish as well as I after all of my years of reading and trial and error.   It worked out perfectly for me.  I got a good fishing partner I enjoy being with and didn’t screw up a good marriagre trying to teach how to fish.  Not only that, her  being good has pushed me to learn more and take advice from everyone I see.  Since then (thats been about 12 years ago)  we have taken guided trips together and gone to classes that have interested us.  And of course, we have fished together and had some great times. So, I guess the morale of my story.  Hire someone that knows the sport to learn the basics.  Take thier advice on equipment.  If you fish in a new area hire a guide for a day and pick his brain as much as you can.  And above all, don’t get big headed and think you know more than the next guy you meet on the water.  His advice may be the one thing you need to have a good day.   Well hope my rambling didn’t go on too long, and good luck. Steve Russell

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        I’d be interested in some kind folks giving me some input as to the general start up costs involved in starting out on this adventure.  My background is some infrequent spinner baiting for bass and, of course, I’ve drowned a few worms in my time.  But I’m about to retire and want to enjoy some of the finer things in life- fly fishing has always appealed to my sense of imagination as the ultimate art form regarding a combination of sport mingled with a satisfying environmental experience- so I’d like to at least try my hand at it.         I have a general understanding from years of hard experience, that in many cases using inferior equiptment may NOT give me the degree of satisfaction that is possible when you have the finest- but there is a degree of practicality involved in jumping into anything new , so what I would really be interested in is this-         Could you please, if you have the time and inclination, list some tackle and gear combinations in perhaps three general price combinations- Low,Med, Top of the line.  I’d be interested in specific brand recommendations so that I can research these.         Also, could you point me toward URL’s that have online catalog pricing or that I can order printed catalogs.         I am quite aware that this is such an open ended question that it is very difficult- not to mention TIME consuming-to reply to- so I wouldn’t be suprised if I don’t catch anything from this post- we all have our time consrtaints- but let me thank you in advance if you are kind enough to reply.         Again, thank you for you kind consideration,                 Regards, Jim

Response:

Question:

I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day.

I’m all for this.  I was on a streak last spring– caught one fish on every outing for three weeks.  But, usually I don’t catch anything. It’d be great to have a regulation that guarantees me a minimum number of fish landed per day! — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

– Brice, Wake up! Where is the next fish you cook comming from? This is not a bunny hug, a tree hug, a rock hug or any other "Environmental issue." Say you own a pond with 100 fish in it, if you want to fish the pond every day, you will soon realize that catch and release is the only way you can sustain your sport. Or, of course, you could open a hatchery . . . . / o          /                                    |   __ /        /         Douglas Easton             |                                /                                      |                                                     *

Response:

Well I will not judge you for your way of life, but don’t come up to Montana and try to catch and cook in any of the prime trout areas, because you will be arrested if I see it…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC Ain’t nothing wrong with keeping.  Depends on why you fish.  Frankly, I like the total experience and an satisfied with the challenge, the "art" of flyfishing, the environment, etc.  I don’t need to harvest the fish to be satisfied and therefore I fish entirely catch and release. however, I certainly do not blame anyone for harvesting what can be used appropriately.

Response:

fish, then it is theoretically possible for a larger % of the population to be decimated by C&R methods than by C&K

It’s a nice theory but empirical evidence just doesn’t bear it out. In fact empirical evidence disproves it.  Go fish both the C&R and C&K section of the San Juan River for instance.  The two areas are adjacent. In a day of fishing the former you’ll typically catch about 30 fat healthy fish running 12-24 inches; in the latter you’ll catch a handful of scrawny 10-inch stockers.  Which is decimated? Even what I’ve said above is overly simplistic.

No actually, it’s too complicated.  The facts are clear, simple, and undeniable.   — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

: Hopefully, we’re not : carrying fin tags or punch cards anytime soon. Why? Just curious… JonCook.

Since what was proposed was essentially an honor system, what’s the point of punch cards? I either follow the rules or I don’t. The paperwork is a potential bureaucratic nightmare. It just makes fishing more expensive for everyone. For the record, I have killed one fish on the Platte in 16 years of fishing it. The fin tags would be of no use to me unless someone could convince me that killing fish there improved the fishery. (Colorado has a great bag limit foroverpopulated pond brookies under 8" that more than satisfies my appetite for fresh trout and HELPS the population.) However the 40 caught per season is interesting. As tough as the Platte can be some days, therehave been numerous days where the seasonal limit would have been filled. I only get to fish there 1 to 10 or 12 days a year while I’m visiting family in the Springs. What about the guys who fish there much more than that? How would they feel? Or is the real issue here limiting the number of fishing days to improve the fisherman’s aesthetic experience as opposed to protecting a fishery? Could it be this is just a stalking horse for another round of yuppie bashing?  Not saying I know the answer, but it’s an interesting question. I fish the Platte during the week at off times of the year, often with snow on the ground, because I want to see fewer people. I guess with punch cards and fin tags I could go whenever I wanted and see fewer people, but I’ve come to love the Canyon more the times that I go than any other. Probably wouldn’t change a thing. BP

Response:

wayne trzyna  wrote in article I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so. This is unnecessary.  If a person is catching dozens of fish that fact implies there are plenty of fish to catch.  It seems silly to regulate "number of fish landed" in this scenario.

This may be a naive assumption.  (Before you react.  Note that I said ‘may’.)  I have no facts on this issue (and certainly would appreciate it if anyone could contribute some), but it stands to reason that C&R could have it’s own pitfalls.  If it is true that a certain percentage of returned fish die as a result of having been caught and handled, and it is true that there are many fishermen who are successful at catching many fish, then it is theoretically possible for a larger % of the population to be decimated by C&R methods than by C&K (where fishers keep all they catch, must stop fishing when the limit is reached,  and compliance to these regs is high….i.e. an ‘ideal’ C&K fishery). Even what I’ve said above is overly simplistic.  We all know that there are a variety of factors that uniquely effect each fishery, and to some degree, I think the jury is still out as to what works best where.  There is no magic bullet that is going to cure the underlying problem…overpopulation of fishers.  (I sure aint gonna stop fishing, are you?).  Unfortunately, we have found all too often that well meant resource management techniques, even though they look good on paper, fail to measure up to our expectations.  I suspect that this may be true of C&R, at least on some fisheries, but again I have no specific facts. Does anyone know of any scholarly investigations of the long term impacts of C&R fishing?

Response:

A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. How’s that? </c

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Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. How’s that? </c

Response:

Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year. With that, the SP would be a truely great fishery, and those 2-10 days you fished it per year would be much more memorable than the 50 you do now (you being anyone who fishes it that much now, not neccessarily Chaz). JonCook.

: : Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of : old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big : because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane : acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) : Ralph H : A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South : Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a : result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. : switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. : : How’s that? : : </c

Response:

Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

Ain’t nothing wrong with keeping.  Depends on why you fish.  Frankly, I like the total experience and an satisfied with the challenge, the "art" of flyfishing, the environment, etc.  I don’t need to harvest the fish to be satisfied and therefore I fish entirely catch and release. however, I certainly do not blame anyone for harvesting what can be used appropriately.

Response:

Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is)

Yes, that is the fly in the ointment.  You could expect more stocks because larger fish produce more eggs, etc. – but remember only a few small ones would be kept. But you’re right.  The number of small fish would decline, especially on the SP – I doubt there is a great deal of natural reproduction and they won’t stock it, so……. </c – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ralph H

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Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year.

For anglers who keep some/most/all of thier legal catch, a 40 fish/year limit would be totally unenforceable.  Unless, of course, you gave them "tear-away tags"  as part of their liscense and made them tag the fins of thier fish.   Hey, what a great way to limit exclusive Catch and Kill fishing.  Make killing a bunch of fish more trouble than it’s worth! Jason B

Response:

Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year. With that, the SP would be a truely great fishery, and those 2-10 days you fished it per year would be much more memorable than the 50 you do now (you being anyone who fishes it that much now, not neccessarily Chaz). JonCook.

I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so. I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size). you’ve got to wonder if a limit of 4 smaller fish will help either if the kill so seriously affects the larger fish. I think that most of us want our waters managed so there is a more or less normal distribution of all age classes. Wiping out one class to protect the other doesn’t make sense and will likely lead to an imbalance in the long run! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of : old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big : A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South : Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a : result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. : switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. : : How’s that? : : </c

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Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) Ralph H

I let the hatcheries replenish the stock. I also don’t get very many chances to trout fish so I make the best of the ones that I catch. BryceC

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        <<Killing a fish and eating it is not a dishonorable thing to do. The angler should use a little discretion, though. Where they are scarce, it’s foolish to kill them. On the other hand, if the trout are plentiful I may keep one or two per trip.         You are right, Bryce, when you admit that you are likely to catch some flak over this issue. But, where legal, it is your RIGHT to do that if you wish. People can holler all they want, but it’s their problem not yours. Just use good judgment, and don’t overcook those beauties. Enjoy! (Try poaching them in wine and garlic.) I fish the Tellico so there are plenty of fish around there. The Tellico Hatchery Stocks weekly. I also fish the West Prong Pigeon, the Little and the Elk. All have lots of fish. If I were fishing Abrahms creek or Rabbit Creek that would be a different story. I’m glad someone agrees with me. BryceC

Response:

Jason, the reason game laws work is because most people observe them voluntarily. There is simply not enough DFG (or DNR, depending on where you’re from) money to enforce these laws.   Laws that are "more trouble than they are worth"  are the ones least likely to be honored by the requisite number of fishermen.                                                            -dnc- Jason Beary wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip]  Unless, of course, you gave them "tear-away tags"  as part of their liscense and made them tag the fins of thier fish.   Hey, what a great way to limit exclusive Catch and Kill fishing.  Make killing a bunch of fish more trouble than it’s worth! Jason B

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So if I get skunked, your going to fine me?  (No need to reply.  I know what you meant.  Just couldn’t resist) —                                                            -dnc- I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a …[snip]…. a minimum number of fish

landed per day.

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I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so.

This is unnecessary.  If a person is catching dozens of fish that fact implies there are plenty of fish to catch.  It seems silly to regulate "number of fish landed" in this scenario. I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size).

There are a bunch of dubious assumptions underlying this thread.  The fact that one is not catching bigger fish does not mean that there are no big fish to be caught.  We all understand this more than we’d care to admit. But I agree that slot limits that allow killing only big fish are counterproductive. — -Wayne Trzyna

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-Wayne Trzyna

<snip I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size). There are a bunch of dubious assumptions underlying this thread.  The fact that one is not catching bigger fish does not mean that there are no big fish to be caught.  We all understand this more than we’d care to admit.

If the 16" fish is rare then you will fish somewhere else right? If the 16" fish is rare, you will change the regs to protect them right? Seems there are an awful lot of people on this group going out of their way to poor mouth the Platte. I suspect Wayne knows that Cheeseman Canyon(Pure C&R) has plenty of 16"+ fish and has for years. Maybe its not like the eighties when there were many days when almost all the fish I caught were above 16", but… I must admit however that I have never caught as many larger fish below the canyon (kill one over 16" stretch), even in the better days. Numbers of total fish caught were somewhat similar though. Only 3 real differences between the areas: Better Habitat (Canyon), C&R vs. C&R&K(1 over 16"), Much easier access (below the canyon). Differences are probably attributable to a complex blend of  all three. The solution for the whole fishery should be derived deliberately. Hopefully, we’re not carrying fin tags or punch cards anytime soon. BP

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.

While that’s nice (and perhaps you’d like to trade some recipes): Somewhere some nincompoop(s) cooked this whole issue into a one or the other kind of argument. What was supposed to an idea of applying common sense for the good of fishing for the future has been perverted into a sort of quasi religion and had a concommittent religious backlash. That there are those who say you should never kill a fish and to kill a fish bespeakes a blatant disregard for the sport and the environment versus those who say there should always be a kill and a meal regardless or close a fishery down ( like you having to justify the cost of your sport with a meal on the table as if being on the water and hooking a fish or two can’t be enough) just proves to me there are people who don’t really want to think about an issue and then ironically decide they have all the answers. One eminent poster here once eluded to Ecclesiates and said there is a time to kill (as in your fishery has an undeniable surplus available) and a time to release (such as is the case for virtually all wild steelhead) where you can’t really be certain of a sufficient number of fish being available for the future of the stocks to be assured. It may be a matter of convention (like on the Dean) where the body of anglers fishing there agree releasing is the best thing to do or boil down to personal preference. But why not accept it as a fact sometimes it is best to let it live. For those that don’t like those sorts of fisheries they can go someplace else. It’s a big free wide world. Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.  Am I the only one that eats fish here? BryceC

Bryce; The point is that many (most) FFermen prefer the opportunity to catch lots of quality fish all year.  If I and all other FFermen kept a good % of the trout we caught, there would really be very little reason to continue the sport.  Here in PA, wild trout would not exist in the numbers that they do were it not for voluntary C&R.  We have way more fishermen than fish to support the sport.  If people keep the fish they catch, it will not ever be able to be caught by other fishermen or yourself, guaranteed.  Here in the East, we would very quickly run out of the good populations of wild fish that already struggle to survive in the shadow of Man.  All Catch and Cook would do is deplete the resource to the point of destruction.  (But, then again, that IS the american way, isn’t it? Fuck it all to hell and let someone else pay for the baby.) Jason Beary

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        Killing a fish and eating it is not a dishonorable thing to do. The angler should use a little discretion, though. Where they are scarce, it’s foolish to kill them. On the other hand, if the trout are plentiful I may keep one or two per trip.         You are right, Bryce, when you admit that you are likely to catch some flak over this issue. But, where legal, it is your RIGHT to do that if you wish. People can holler all they want, but it’s their problem not yours. Just use good judgment, and don’t overcook those beauties. Enjoy! (Try poaching them in wine and garlic.)

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Jason makes a good point, but it is true that there is nothing wrong with keeping fish where it is legal to do so.  If you care about the resource (which you should if you want to continue to C&C) then I strongly recommend supporting a mixed management program in your area that protects some waters with C&R, some with limited C&K.  If eating trout is your real pleasure, try searching out the put-n-take waters in your area (if they exist).  Living in San Diego, as I do, means travelling long distances for abundant trout streams, but the winter fishing in local lakes for put-n-take trout is pretty good.  And believe it or not, the private hatchery that provides the fish feeds them on something that makes ‘em taste really good.  Maybe you can find something like this in your area.   —                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.  Am I the only one that eats fish here? BryceC Bryce; The point is that many (most) FFermen prefer the opportunity to catch lots of quality fish all year.  If I and all other FFermen kept a good % of the trout we caught, there would really be very little reason to continue the sport.  

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Question:

Fletch writes:

I’ve got an opportunity to plan a FF trip to Alaska in the fall of = 1997. Any suggestions for place, equipment, flies, guide or not, etc… Fletch.. My advice to others who ask, knowing I have made several of these trips is: Pick *one* species of fish you most want to catch and then time your arrival on a river known to hold these fish in the middle of its run.   ( I have seen people spend a week on the wrong river at the wrong time and come up emptY) Alternate is to not care what species of fish and pick a time and a reliable guide and hve the guide able to fly you to a river known to have fish in it at that time.   If you plan to camp along the river and have never done this, then who ever takes you is the person you are trusting your life with…. Back country Alaska is sincere country and unforgiving of some errors..  There is fishing without going into the deep wilderness that can be better than your wildest dreams…. but you gotta be on the right rivers at the right times for the run to be there.   When I have gone the last ten years, I have been self guiding as the friends I go with, as well as myself, have made about a dozen of these trips…..  I would never recommend anyone do this for themselves on their first trip….too much can go wrong.  So, I do not have a guide list for you… I knew the dates and fish you are most interested in, I may be able to help… Also the Game and Inland fish people there will send you a big big booklet with all kinds of dates of runs in different rivers in it.   Likely any Alaskan tourist agent can help. For near my trips without a big crowd but needing a boat.. are a day’s float down the Kenai from the lake to Jim’s landing… A 13 mile trip and good for large rainbows much of the season and is full of Red Salmon and some King Salmon at the right weeks…   Near Willow, there are several walkin from the road rivers full of salmon at the right dates…  Near the airport are accessible rivers but crowded ….  Willow is far enough out of Anchorage that the crowds are not so great.  There are 18 lodges which get $4000/week and I would not hesitate to recommend Bud Hobson’s lodge or Bristol Bay Lodge if you want to go that route.  If you fly in, leave an itinerary with someone who truly loves you and will cause you to be found if overdue.  If you fly with a reputable service ( there are plenty of good ones) they are bound by law to come to get you and report you absence to Fairbanks if over 24 hours late….Carry a flare gun and then every plane in the air is a potential help….  I have a lllooooonnnnnngggg packing list if you want to Email me for it…  but again, don’t go in the bush without a competent guide… Just don’t… Alaska has tons and tons of fish because the manage the habit and the spawning run on each river individually and have the capability and will to change the C&K numbers on a days notice on any river needing it…. Other states in our north west have too many competing interests and this is not done… and so they have few fish….   Well hope some of this helps. Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain;         charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey McCoy, I also have the opportunity to go FF in Alaska. Just found = out today! Come on guys help us out. I will be flying in to Anchorage. thanks  McCoy wrote in article = Thanks for reading…. I’ve got an opportunity to plan a FF trip to Alaska in the fall of 1997. Any suggestions for place, equipment, flies, guide or not, etc… =20 Content-Type: text/html;         charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML 3.2//EN" <HTML <HEAD <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type <META content=3D’"Trident 4.71.0544.0"’ name=3DGENERATOR </HEAD <BODY<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2 <PHey McCoy, I also have the opportunity to go FF in Alaska. Just found = out=20 today!<BR Come on guys help us out. I will be flying in to Anchorage.<BR thanks</P <HTML<BODY<FONT size=3D2<BR Thanks for reading….<BR <BR I’ve got an opportunity to plan a FF trip to Alaska in the fall of = 1997.<BR Any suggestions for place, equipment, flies, guide or not, etc…<BR <BR  </FONT</FONT </BODY</HTML

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Thanks for reading…. I’ve got an opportunity to plan a FF trip to Alaska in the fall of 1997. Any suggestions for place, equipment, flies, guide or not, etc… I would like to mix this trip between fishing and site-seeing and have about 5 days to do it. Thanks for any help or advice you can give. Russ

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Question:

Where could I find pictures about waders, wading in water, rubbersuits, divers gasmasks, divers in gasmasks,…

Just when I thought the group was getting a little dull…

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Where could I find pictures about waders, wading in water, rubbersuits, divers gasmasks, divers in gasmasks,…

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Where could I find pictures about waders, wading in water, rubbersuits, divers gasmasks, divers in gasmasks,… Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,alt.sex.watersports,alt.sex.fetish.wet-and-messy

,alt.sex.fetish.watersports,alt.sex.anal,alt.magazines.pornographic,alt.bin aries.pictures.erotica.fetish.leather,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish. latex,alt.binaries.pictur es.erotica.fetish.hair,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.feet,alt.bina

ries.pictures.erotica.fetish.diapers,alt.binaries.erotica.fetish.wet-and-me ssy Xref: newsbf05.news.aol.com rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:59045 alt.sex.watersports:18881 alt.sex.fetish.wet-and-messy:21012 alt.sex.fetish.watersports:32381 alt.sex.anal:71431 alt.magazines.pornographic:16175 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.leather:14035 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.latex:20645 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.hair:22140 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.feet:45135 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.diapers:5545 alt.binaries.erotica.fetish.wet-and-messy:3599

Wow! The only thing missing is: alt.rec.fishing.tying.myself.in.a.knot.while.trying.to.cast

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Question:

3M makes a fly line dressing that brings out the natural lubricants in the line itself and puts more on it.  Great Great Great STuff

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writes: Has anybody tried "lard" (yes, I mean pure porky lard for cooking) or any other greasy-oily domestic product?

     In the Bad Old Days of silk lines, commercial line dressings contained lanolin (i.e., mutton fat), but what good lard would do on a vinyl-covered line, I don’t know.  Silicones act like oils but are much less sensitive to changes in temperature (and do not become rancid!)      Wash your line in warm water and mild soap, rinse, then wipe dry with a soft cloth.  You will be surprised how much better a clean line floats and shoots than a dirty one.  – Roger

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anybody know of any domestic product we could use to apply on fly lines instead of these expensive silicone products a careful fisherman must buy many times a year in order to protect his line? Has anybody tried "lard" (yes, I mean pure porky lard for cooking) or any other greasy-oily domestic product? Fly fishing is older than "silicone" I believe, so what would ancient fly fishers use on their lines? …of course we know they didn’t use synthetic lines as we do now, but still! I am asking before I try for I am bored by the commercial aspect of fishing.  And I do go fishing every day. If some of you fly fishers out there would kindly give me informations on this by E-Mail, I would gather the answer and publish them in an article here in the NewsGroup.  It might be helpful for all of us. If I get no answer, well next year I’ll know because I’ll try a few tricks. Thanks for reading me.  If you got any answer you can mail ‘em to me (Jean-Pierre) at E-Mail address:

I think that a can of Mucilin is about as much as a mocha? William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Does anybody know of any domestic product we could use to apply on fly lines instead of these expensive silicone products a careful fisherman must buy many times a year in order to protect his line? Has anybody tried "lard" (yes, I mean pure porky lard for cooking) or any other greasy-oily domestic product? Fly fishing is older than "silicone" I believe, so what would ancient fly fishers use on their lines? …of course we know they didn’t use synthetic lines as we do now, but still! I am asking before I try for I am bored by the commercial aspect of fishing.  And I do go fishing every day. If some of you fly fishers out there would kindly give me informations on this by E-Mail, I would gather the answer and publish them in an article here in the NewsGroup.  It might be helpful for all of us. If I get no answer, well next year I’ll know because I’ll try a few tricks. Thanks for reading me.  If you got any answer you can mail ‘em to me (Jean-Pierre) at E-Mail address:

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Question:

Hi I live in the Flathead valley in the town of Whitefish Montana and fly fish most of the rivers and lakes. If you need help with this area let me know.                                  Larry

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I’ve never been west but plan on seeing Glacier National Park my first time out.  What streams/rivers/lakes in the area would you recommend? BFisher

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Question:

I have just moved to England for a two-year stint courtesy of my wife’s job.   Sadly, I have had to leave behind my favorite stretches of "free" water in exchange for a country where I have been told you must "pay as you play." There must be some salvation for me somewhere.  The thought of not flyfishing for trout and/or salmon for two years (unless I take a second mortgage on the house) does not sit well.   Likewise, my supply of tying materials becomes more depleted by the day and unless I find the location of some fly shops (if there are any) I am likely to resort to catching local pigeons and plucking the occasional stray cat.  Help me.   Should there be an angel of mercy out there that can offer any advice in these matters I would be most indebted.  I am residing approximately 30 miles west of London but am willing to travel if it means being able to wet a line without draining my pocketbook. Cheers! Rhett

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I have just moved to England for a two-year stint courtesy of my wife’s job.

All is not lost, there is plenty of fishing well within most peoples budget, ie