Question:

I was probably coming into the conversation late – what’s new?! I usually use a duncan loop to tie tippet to fly. I usually start with a fairly loose knot in the hope that the fly will move in a more natural manner (and that that will make a difference), but it usually tightens up after a few casts. If I can ever get to the point that I can tell that my choice of fly-to-tippet connection makes a difference I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly.  anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation.  i use the surgeon’s loop at times.  i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

 Try the "non-slip loop", which is the Rapala loop without the final  step.  Both are supposed to be stronger than the Duncan.

Thanks. The main need I have for strength is for pulling flies out of brush. Bob Wondering if it’s better to break the line at the tippet-to-fly connection or at the tippet-to-leader . . .

Response:

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Like Bill says below I’ve used it as a loop knot on a fly works great and very strong. Good idea to use as a tippet connector I’ll have to try.

Response:

I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

    liar, liar, pants on fire.  we all know you’re an accountant! yfitons wayno

Response:

Wayne Knight suggested that Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. I have been having problems tying small flies on to tippet (especially dry flies), so I now pre-snell/tie them, at my tying table with plenty of light and magnification, to about 16" – 18" of tippet and store them in a thing called a "Pip’s Box" made by Mack’s Lure of Leavenworth, Washington State US (You can hold better than a dozen flies or so with this thing without tangling the tippet, and it comes in colors with a see thru lid.  I organize my flies by the color of the box.)  My eyesight, especially at twilight or later, is not so good even with a flashlight.  I just can’t seem to get the tippet thru then I have a hell of a time tying the knot IF I get it threaded.  I am using Fluorocarbon tippet, these days, and I feel that a blood knot is not adequate for this material.  I then use a Tie-Fast Knot Tying tippet to the leader with their double splicing knot or double nail knot as some have described it, which I believe is considerably stronger than the blood knot, or at least my blood knots anyway…be curious to see if anyone else has the same experience. Just my two cents worth, anyway Padishar Creel

Response:

  we all know you’re an accountant! Always prospecting for business, huh? Bob

Response:

I think I will, Wayne. I made a leader, per Lefty Kreh’s directions, for casting big bugs. However, I used uni to uni knots. I think I will make another one with blood knots and attach it. I mastered nail knots a long time ago. Now, I am trying to expand my knot repertoire. I still maintain that the perfection loop is a myth… Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Response:

Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop.

it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line.

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Ralph, — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

Steve, Lefty really promoted the non-slip loop knot and now I see most of all using it with flies we want to move freely like a Clouser minnow. Thanks. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Nice contribution. Very helpful. I hope you continue to foster goodwill in this group and for the sport of fly fishing. Bugged – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

//snip//  Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a  difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs  non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/  cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference.

I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly.  anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation.  i use the surgeon’s loop at times.  i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

I’ve found its hard to beat a perfection loop for most leader connections. The perfection (if tied properly) stands straight out from the standing line with no offset, and the knot strength is near 100%. I use it on all leader butts (with a whipped loop on the fly line), & on all tippet connections down to 4x.  5x & smaller I use a doubled surgeons knot.  I think its easier to tie than a surgeons loop, and, well….. it looks cool! B.J.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Hi All, In larger diameter mono like attaching leader to a butt section we use perfection loops because they are a smaller, cleaner knot and strength is not an issue. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. In larger diameter mono like attaching a leader to a butt section we also use a blood knot because it is a smaller, cleaner knot. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we also use a triple surgeons knot because it is stronger. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony

Hi Tony, Go here for any knot you’re apt to use: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/knots/ Frank Sr.

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop?

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

I speaking only from the leader end, agree blood knot to attach a butt section to a leader.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

Question:

http://www.troutflies.com/flies/newhowtoo/index.htm  under  stimulator New how to, and yes , comments are welcome ,just leave my poor dead ass mother out of the rants ……. Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

Harry Mason does it again: http://www.troutflies.com/flies/newhowtoo/index.htm  under  stimulator

Great job, Harry.  I’ve never tied Kaufman’s Stimulator, but if I do, I have the perfect reference.  Thanks. Dave LaCourse

Response:

<<Great job, Harry.  I’ve never tied Kaufman’s Stimulator, but if I do, I have the perfect reference.  Thanks. Dave LaCourse  Dave, I can imagine not tying a stim. but have you ever used one? They are one of my all time favorites. never leave home without some! "Reality is an escape for people who don’t (fly) fish"

Response:

Skylnprntg writes: <<Great job, Harry.  I’ve never tied Kaufman’s Stimulator, but if I do, I have the perfect reference.  Thanks. Dave LaCourse Dave, I can imagine not tying a stim. but have you ever used one? They are one of my all time favorites. never leave home without some! "Reality is an escape for people who don’t (fly) fish"

Oh, yes.  They are very effective in the Smokies, Maine, and a favorite of the brook trout in Labrador.  With Harry’s help I should be able to tie my own. Dave LaCourse

Response:

New how to, and yes , comments are welcome ,just leave my poor dead ass mother out of the rants …….

No rants from here, Harry. Super job! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

http://www.troutflies.com/flies/newhowtoo/index.htm  under  stimulator New how to, and yes , comments are welcome ,just leave my poor dead ass mother out of the rants ……. Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Harry Take a look at the Michigan Stelhead report.  We were catching those little stockers on small, black bodied stimulators.  Worked well. BTW, your instructions and photos are better than 99% of the tying books out there.  In case you don’t haven’t realized it yet, you’re close to having a body of work that should be put into print. Just a note, though.  Make sure you clean your finger nails when you include them in the pictures.  :) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Just what I’ve been looking for!  I’ve been getting material to tie some of these up.  I read Kaufman’s instructions on this, but neither he nor anyone else has mentioned this info about the hackle size (unless I missed it.)  But it looked to me like everyone ties them "short" (smaller hackle for the palmer). Now the other half of the million dollar question – Do you also use a smaller hackle for the collar (say 1 size), since the thorax area is built up with dubbing so much?  Thanks For the body palmer ,bind in a prepared saddle hackle two sizes under the normal dry hackle size,i.e. for a size 10 use a size14 hackle. Keep in mind

the TMC R200 is an under gap sized hook. The York bend produces a short gap size relative to standard bend hooks. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Dave, I can imagine not tying a stim. but have you ever used one? They are one of my all time favorites. never leave home without some!

I have to tie some up, because they were eating them up on the river I went to in New York last June.  I only could get one from the local shop, because he was so busy with orders.  I caught a bunch of fish on it, but they wouldn’t go for the smaller size I had with me, and other flies only about a third as much.  Finally, something big snapped my tippet.  I’m going back prepared this year! Regards, Jeff

Response:

the fly is  very versitile,surprisingly so. I have used them down to 20’s and as large as 4’s .They flat catch fish,yet the tye is but a knock off of a sofa pillow. Just goes to show how a little tweaking can make the difference.  You are right I should have cleaned the nails instead of getting a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.troutflies.com/flies/newhowtoo/index.htm  under  stimulator New how to, and yes , comments are welcome ,just leave my poor dead ass mother out of the rants ……. Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com Harry Take a look at the Michigan Stelhead report.  We were catching those little stockers on small, black bodied stimulators.  Worked well. BTW, your instructions and photos are better than 99% of the tying books out there.  In case you don’t haven’t realized it yet, you’re close to having a body of work that should be put into print. Just a note, though.  Make sure you clean your finger nails when you include them in the pictures.  :) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

I am of the belief that the bug does not float worth a shit. IMO the hackle is for show.The wing/tail hair floats this thing amid ship on the water. This is not a bad thing but it does not "sit" atop like an dry hackled Adams.  By default if you use a scale to measure ther hackle the feather will be about twice the gap of a R200. If you use the gap  to measure, the feather will be undersized , relative to the hook size.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just what I’ve been looking for!  I’ve been getting material to tie some of these up.  I read Kaufman’s instructions on this, but neither he nor anyone else has mentioned this info about the hackle size (unless I missed it.)  But it looked to me like everyone ties them "short" (smaller hackle for the palmer). Now the other half of the million dollar question – Do you also use a smaller hackle for the collar (say 1 size), since the thorax area is built up with dubbing so much?  Thanks For the body palmer ,bind in a prepared saddle hackle two sizes under the normal dry hackle size,i.e. for a size 10 use a size14 hackle. Keep in mind the TMC R200 is an under gap sized hook. The York bend produces a short gap size relative to standard bend hooks. Regards, Jeff

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

BTW, your instructions and photos are better than 99% of the tying books out there.  In case you don’t haven’t realized it yet, you’re close to having a body of work that should be put into print. Just a note, though.  Make sure you clean your finger nails when you include them in the pictures.  :)

Yeah why don’t you think about that?  I see Al and Gretchen Beatty have a book out (at least one) that appears to have been put together on a shoestring. This is not a criticism, just pointing out you don’t have to nail a big publisher.  Their "Tying With Hair" or something appears to have been printed on a good quality printer and bound like you could probably do at Kinko’s and it turned out pretty good.  They don’t even have a Stimulator pattern in theirs Regards, Jeff

Response:

Question:

Hi Tim.  if it hurts you are doing it wrong. Take a lesson. You should be able to cast at least sixty feet with relative ease using the correct technique. If you can not do so, take a lesson from a pro. It is rarely necessary to cast sixty feet as it happens, but if it gives you peace of mind to be capable of doing so, then as I said, take a lesson. You will not regret it.

I can cast 60 feet, but when I’m on a float tube in a pond the fish always seem to be rising 65 feet away. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Hi Tim, You might want to try it with a good weight forward floating line. I would try to get some help. Are there any casting classes availaby near you?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was watching a video on fly fishing the other day and the guy in the video seemed to be able to cast fairly long distances with hardly any effort at all. I am getting better at casting but I seem to need to put a little more force into my cast than what I have seen in most video’s.  I was wondering what weight rod and line are these guys normally using in these video’s?  I have a Cabela’s Sweetwater 6/7 weight rod and use 6 weight WF floating line on it.  I need to really put some power into my casts to get it to reach out even say 20 – 25 ft. I’m trying to keep my wrist firm and elbow tight to my body and using abrupt stops at 11:00 and 1:00 then follow through when letting the fly go to the target so I think I’m doing it right.  Fairly tight loops and all, but something just doesn’t seem right when I see the ease with which some of these guys can cast. Would it make sense for me to try a 7 weight line? BTW it’s not that I really mind the the way I’m casting but I have a pinched nerve in my neck and shoulder (from too many years of competitve volleyball) and after a few hours of casting I start to get a little sore. thanks, Tim Sheehan

Response:

Hi Tim, You might want to try it with a good weight forward floating line. I would try to get some help. Are there any casting classes availaby near you?

Bill, I am using Cortland WF6 Floating line (can’t remember the number…either 333 or 444) isn’t this a decent quality line? I am looking into getting some lessons (I’ve been workin’ on a veteran ROFFer for some casting tips, but havn’t been able to hook up yet…hint, hint, Mark Tim

Response:

Your time is coming Tim Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tim, You might want to try it with a good weight forward floating line. I would try to get some help. Are there any casting classes availaby near you? Bill, I am using Cortland WF6 Floating line (can’t remember the number…either 333 or 444) isn’t this a decent quality line? I am looking into getting some lessons (I’ve been workin’ on a veteran ROFFer for some casting tips, but havn’t been able to hook up yet…hint, hint, Mark Tim

Response:

Thanks for the reply Tony! I actually did go to the doctor last week because the numbness was getting much worse in my right arm and fingers.  The doc sent me for a spine xray (I’m still waiting for the results) and prescribed some muscle relaxers and NSAIDs.

Get an MRI. X-ray doesn’t show damage to soft tissue. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Hi Tim,     Definitely try the 7wt. If you’re the same guy from Altoona, give me a mail, and maybe we can get together. I live in State College and am a former Orvis instructor. I love to teach casting. Bruce

Good to have another State College roffian around. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Don’t worry so much about distance.  Unless you are fishing the ocean, distance is highly overrated.  Relax, master your cast at shorter distances and eventually, with practice, it’ll all come together. thanks for the tip Ken, and thanks to all that responded to this post with helful advice!! I even got an offer of a free booklet and some casting lessons from another…ROFF is truly amazing!!! Tim

fish. Some of us can even do both. — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/html  Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site

Response:

Take a class. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was watching a video on fly fishing the other day and the guy in the video seemed to be able to cast fairly long distances with hardly any effort at all. I am getting better at casting but I seem to need to put a little more force into my cast than what I have seen in most video’s.  I was wondering what weight rod and line are these guys normally using in these video’s? I have a Cabela’s Sweetwater 6/7 weight rod and use 6 weight WF floating line on it.  I need to really put some power into my casts to get it to reach out even say 20 – 25 ft. I’m trying to keep my wrist firm and elbow tight to my body and using abrupt stops at 11:00 and 1:00 then follow through when letting the fly go to the target so I think I’m doing it right.  Fairly tight loops and all, but something just doesn’t seem right when I see the ease with which some of these guys can cast. Would it make sense for me to try a 7 weight line? BTW it’s not that I really mind the the way I’m casting but I have a pinched nerve in my neck and shoulder (from too many years of competitve volleyball) and after a few hours of casting I start to get a little sore. thanks, Tim Sheehan

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was watching a video on fly fishing the other day and the guy in the video seemed to be able to cast fairly long distances with hardly any effort at all. I am getting better at casting but I seem to need to put a little more force into my cast than what I have seen in most video’s.  I was wondering what weight rod and line are these guys normally using in these video’s?  I have a Cabela’s Sweetwater 6/7 weight rod and use 6 weight WF floating line on it.  I need to really put some power into my casts to get it to reach out even say 20 – 25 ft. I’m trying to keep my wrist firm and elbow tight to my body and using abrupt stops at 11:00 and 1:00 then follow through when letting the fly go to the target so I think I’m doing it right.  Fairly tight loops and all, but something just doesn’t seem right when I see the ease with which some of these guys can cast. Would it make sense for me to try a 7 weight line?

Don’t worry so much about distance.  Unless you are fishing the ocean, distance is highly overrated.  Relax, master your cast at shorter distances and eventually, with practice, it’ll all come together. Just MNSHO,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."     – Henry David Thoreau

Response:

Don’t worry so much about distance.  Unless you are fishing the ocean, distance is highly overrated.  Relax, master your cast at shorter distances and eventually, with practice, it’ll all come together.

thanks for the tip Ken, and thanks to all that responded to this post with helful advice!! I even got an offer of a free booklet and some casting lessons from another…ROFF is truly amazing!!! Tim

Response:

Well said, Mr. G. This reminds me of a trip to Hat Creek, when I lived in California. I get to the stream, I am walking around, far from the banks, trying to spot feeding fish. And all of the sudden: there they are, a pod of about 20 fish, all lined up along the bank, the same bank I am standing on. So i kneal, tie a fly, and cast (about 20 feet), pling, slurp, fish on, a 17 " rainbow ! I release the fish, and I move on, with the intention of coming back later, hoping that the fish come back.  I return 45 minutes later, and, as I approach the spot, I see a raiseform along the bank, in the same spot.  They are back ! However, this guy arrives at the same time, steps into the water (right through the pod !) goes to the middle of the stream and starts casting long, beautiful casts. If you have ever fished Hat Creek, you would know that long beautiful casts in the middle of the river, in the middle of the summer, are essentially worthless: the weeds create capricious little surface currents that always cause your fly to drag after two-three feet (when doing things properly: reach casts, s casts, parachute casts, whatever is required to put as much slack in the line as one can.) Lakes, some very large rivers (e.g.: yellowstone, below the lake), saltwater, might require long casts (yesterday I was out on a local reservoir, smallmouth fishing, and I have to say that double hauls did really help there, to get past those long weed banks ….), on most streams trout can be found much closer than you think …. (Atlantic salmon,sea trout, steelhead are a different matter…) -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t worry so much about distance.  Unless you are fishing the ocean, distance is highly overrated.  Relax, master your cast at shorter distances and eventually, with practice, it’ll all come together. thanks for the tip Ken, and thanks to all that responded to this post with helful advice!! I even got an offer of a free booklet and some casting lessons from another…ROFF is truly amazing!!! Tim fish. Some of us can even do both. — Mr. G. http://www.gink.com/html  Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site

Response:

Mr. G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This reminds me of a trip to Hat Creek, when I lived in California. I get to the stream, I am walking around, far from the banks, trying to spot feeding fish. And all of the sudden: there they are, a pod of about 20 fish, all lined up along the bank, the same bank I am standing on. So i kneal, tie a fly, and cast (about 20 feet), pling, slurp, fish on, a 17 " rainbow ! I release the fish, and I move on, with the intention of coming back later, hoping that the fish come back.  I return 45 minutes later, and, as I approach the spot, I see a raiseform along the bank, in the same spot.  They are back ! However, this guy arrives at the same time, steps into the water (right through the pod !) goes to the middle of the stream and starts casting long, beautiful casts. If you have ever fished Hat Creek, you would know that long beautiful casts in the middle of the river, in the middle of the summer, are essentially worthless: the weeds create capricious little surface currents that always cause your fly to drag after two-three feet (when doing things properly: reach casts, s casts, parachute casts, whatever is required to put as much slack in the line as one can.) Lakes, some very large rivers (e.g.: yellowstone, below the lake), saltwater, might require long casts (yesterday I was out on a local reservoir, smallmouth fishing, and I have to say that double hauls did really help there, to get past those long weed banks ….), on most streams trout can be found much closer than you think …. (Atlantic salmon,sea trout, steelhead are a different matter…) -Vittorio fish. Some of us can even do both. — Mr. G. http://www.gink.com/html  Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site

Response:

Get that pinched nerve fixed! A while back, I had a pinched nerve in my neck that gave me pain along my left forearm and numbness/pins-n-needles in my thumb and forefinger. An old girlfriend, who is a physio, suggested some self therapy which cleared things up after a few weeks.

Surgery may be required. I had a pinched nerve in my neck caused by a herniated disc. It was agonizing and was causing my right arm to atrophy. My first surgery was what is called a "lamectomy." The surgeon told me it would work for awhile but the problem would probably recur. He recommended fusing a couple of discs, but that sounded too extreme for me. I should have listened to him, because a few years later the pinched nerve came back worse than ever. I had the discs fused several years ago and now my neck and arm are 100%, and I don’t even notice any lack of mobility in my neck. The worst part was the recuperation, which entailed about three months of lying around the house wearing a neck brace. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Get that pinched nerve fixed! A while back, I had a pinched nerve in my neck that gave me pain along my left forearm and numbness/pins-n-needles in my thumb and forefinger. An old girlfriend, who is a physio, suggested some self therapy which cleared things up after a few weeks.

Thanks for the reply Tony! I actually did go to the doctor last week because the numbness was getting much worse in my right arm and fingers.  The doc sent me for a spine xray (I’m still waiting for the results) and prescribed some muscle relaxers and NSAIDs. I did get one session with the Physical therapist last week and I have already noticed some improvement. (Of-course it could be the placebo effect:) Thanks for the tips on casting too!! Tim

Response:

BTW it’s not that I really mind the the way I’m casting but I have a pinched nerve in my neck and shoulder (from too many years of competitve volleyball) and after a few hours of casting I start to get a little sore. thanks, Tim Sheehan

Get that pinched nerve fixed! A while back, I had a pinched nerve in my neck that gave me pain along my left forearm and numbness/pins-n-needles in my thumb and forefinger. An old girlfriend, who is a physio, suggested some self therapy which cleared things up after a few weeks. Within limits, the heavier the fly line, the further it will go. If you double the diameter of a fly line, you quadruple the unit mass (for a given line density). This quadruples the momentum, while only doubling the air resistance (drag), for a given velocity. BTW, doubling the line velocity might double the momentum, but it also quadruples the drag. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I was watching a video on fly fishing the other day and the guy in the video seemed to be able to cast fairly long distances with hardly any effort at all. I am getting better at casting but I seem to need to put a little more force into my cast than what I have seen in most video’s.  I was wondering what weight rod and line are these guys normally using in these video’s?  I have a Cabela’s Sweetwater 6/7 weight rod and use 6 weight WF floating line on it.  I need to really put some power into my casts to get it to reach out even say 20 – 25 ft. I’m trying to keep my wrist firm and elbow tight to my body and using abrupt stops at 11:00 and 1:00 then follow through when letting the fly go to the target so I think I’m doing it right.  Fairly tight loops and all, but something just doesn’t seem right when I see the ease with which some of these guys can cast. Would it make sense for me to try a 7 weight line? BTW it’s not that I really mind the the way I’m casting but I have a pinched nerve in my neck and shoulder (from too many years of competitve volleyball) and after a few hours of casting I start to get a little sore. thanks, Tim Sheehan

Response:

Hi Tim.  if it hurts you are doing it wrong. Take a lesson. You should be able to cast at least sixty feet with relative ease using the correct technique. If you can not do so, take a lesson from a pro. It is rarely necessary to cast sixty feet as it happens, but if it gives you peace of mind to be capable of doing so, then as I said, take a lesson. You will not regret it. TL MC

Response:

Tim… Your comment about keeping your "wrist firm" may be a hint to your problem. As Doug Swisher has said many times in his fly fishing videos, it’s important for a fly caster to develop a "micro second" wrist. This means that your wrist plays a critical part in your casting stroke. The "11 and 1" casting arc should be managed by tipping your wrist correctly, not your arm. This could also explain you getting tired and sore. You might not be letting the rod do the work. Just my 2

Question:

I will give you the name of my best friend (is that Major, Chips?) Sir.  He is Phil Camera.  Give him a call.  He is a fly fisherman.  719-473-5478 – Tell him George sends his love. Phil knows Colorado as good as any man alive and he knows where to take you fishing. Mr. G. looking for a fishing partner in the colorado springs area, fly fish and spinner fish do both, please contact me

–

Question:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

My friend Jim Dionne at Dirigo Flies says he can help you out, and hit your price range Give him a call at (800) 893-2815 tell him you’re the guy from the internet I told him about.                                         jc

Response:

while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

Response:

while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks! Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

I have an on line catalog and have the Clousers in any size and color that you want. You can see my catalog at http://www.surfsouth.com/~jbranham/retailcatalog.html

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Hello- This is probably not what you want to here, but… I would suggest learning to tie them yourself. Clousers are extremely easy to tie and the materials are cheap. I am not a very fast tyer, and I just turned out 10 in the last hour. I tied them on 3/0 for salt water use (Mustad 3407 hooks at about $7/100). That way you can tie them in any size or color combo you want. Even if you don’t tie now with just a few very basic lessons you can tie clousers. Good Luck! Steve Rosenblum

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Try to get a second hand vice and tie your own. They are the most simple saltwater fly to tie and you can make a hundred for what it costs to buy ten at Orvis prices. Get the cheapest vice you can find at first and THEN decide if you want to keep tying. If so, consider the best vice you can afford and prepare yourself for the plethora of tying materials you will want to buy along with the books, videos and CD-ROMs you will get to learn how to tie. Good Luck,         jmc

Response:

Question:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty.

The st. Croix Legend is a great deal. BTW it also has a lifetime unconditional warrenty.

Response:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans        |

Response:

8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.

Dear Dan; The St. Croix may be a slightly faster action rod.  My experience ends with the 6/7 wts., but the principle may carry over to the higher weights.  They are both the same modulous graphite, but the cost of the St. Croix includes a pretty decent rod tube.  Flip a coin.  Better yet, cast ‘em both.  Even better yet, buy a Versitex! Sincerely; Jason Beary

Response:

I’ve got a St Croix Legend (5wt, 9ft) All I can say is that it gets the job done. It’s fine, I works, I’ve got no complaints, but I know, in my heart of hearts, that I ain’t driving a Caddy. True, the warrenty is good and the fly tube is great and gbest of all, the price is excellent. I will be upgrading tho, when my big ship comes in Damn, faint praise! S. "The World is full of shipping clerks who read the Harvard Classics." –Bukowski, American writer, poet S. Duda Seattle, WA

Response:

Dan, I used to fish with a St. Croix and now I fish with a Redington.  I own a Redington 9 ft., 5wt.  My St. Croix is a 8.5 ft., 5/6 wt.  I like my Redington a lot better.  It is a little faster, and the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty has come in handy.  I work at Jacklin’s Fly Shop in West Yellowstone and My Redington worked fine out there last summer.                               Jamie. Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans  |

– Jamie Farrell Interests:   -fly fishing   -fly tying   -camping   -hiking

Response:

Question:

I know Loomis does, they have told me so.  I don’t know who else however, but Sage is a good possibility.  Their rods are very nice. Burton On Tue, 29 Oct – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

Response:

Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

Response:

LLBean is making their own rods now, I think they get their blanks from sage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

Response:

Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

As of about 8 months ago I heard it was Loomis, but that report was from another fisherman, and we all know how reliable fisherman’s reports are. He said he called Bean, and they wouldn’t say exactly who manufactures their rods. Brett

Response:

I have a 10ft. 5wt Double L designed for float tubes.  I use it for saltwater wade fishing.  Broke it once at the ferrule.  (may have been my fault but Bean replaced it.)  Has a medium fast action.  Works well for small snook and specks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m relatively new to the NG, so forgive me if I have missed a thread on this subject. However, does anyone have any experience with the Double L rods, specifically the two-piece 5-weight? – MM

Response:

I’ve been considering an LL Bean Guide series rod.  They’re made with IM-6 graphite, have medium-fast action and run around $190.  This seems like a great deal when coupled with Bean’s 25-year free replacement guarantee. Any comments about Guide Series rods? Dave Anderson Columbia, Maryland

Response:

Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

Don’t know who makes them, but I had a chance to fish the Double L "S" saltwater 9′ 10 weight and it *looked* more like a Sage. It was matched with a #10 Bean intermediate line and casts were some of the most effortless I’ve ever made. If I were to buy a production rod this would be very high on my list.                                                         jc

Response:

MM, I have a 9 ft 6 wt LL rod.  Bought it at the Bean outlet in Nashua, NH. CAsts great, looks great.  I would buy another any time.  It has a medium/fast action, is fairly light in construction and nicely finished. Gerry Crow

Hi Gerry, I’ve found all of LL Bean’s equipment both fly fishing and other to be of excellent quality.  I too think their rods are an excellent peice of equipment.  I do have one and use it but still am partial to RPL and Scott rods as well. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/expo/specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

I’m relatively new to the NG, so forgive me if I have missed a thread on this subject. However, does anyone have any experience with the Double L rods, specifically the two-piece 5-weight? – MM

Response:

MM, I have a 9 ft 6 wt LL rod.  Bought it at the Bean outlet in Nashua, NH.   CAsts great, looks great.  I would buy another any time.  It has a medium/fast action, is fairly light in construction and nicely finished. Gerry Crow

Response:

Question:

A good friend of mine is an outfitter in Montana and has just finished   his new web site. He was to bashful to post the address on this BB, but I’m not! Check it out at: http://www.iigi.comos/montana/diamondn/diamondn.htm Catch ya later Dale Owens

Response:

Correction on the web site address: note that all slashes are forward. I typed one in as a back slash by mistake. Dale

Response:

Question:

I’ll be camping in the area of Roscoe, N.Y. next week. Any tips on what’s been working successfully in the local streams? (Since I’ve typically fished in California. I have no knowledge of upstate N.Y. fishing).

Response:

I’ll be camping in the area of Roscoe, N.Y. next week. Any tips on what’s been working successfully in the local streams? (Since I’ve typically fished in California. I have no knowledge of upstate N.Y. fishing).

I’d check with the local fly shops–they’re several in the Roscoe area.   Conditions change rapidly at this time of year, and the the shop owner ought to be knowledable. Good luck, Emil Department of Education Phone:  (607) 255-2267 419 Kennedy Hall                Fax:    (607) 255-7905 Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853

Response:

I’ll be camping in the area of Roscoe, N.Y. next week. Any tips on what’s been working successfully in the local streams? (Since I’ve typically fished in California. I have no knowledge of upstate N.Y. fishing). I’d check with the local fly shops–they’re several in the Roscoe area.   Conditions change rapidly at this time of year, and the the shop owner ought to be knowledable. Good luck, Emil

Just got back from a weekend in the Roscoe area. The water is very low, but fishable. BUT trout are few and far between. The low water seems to have driven most of the fish out.    Your best bet is to head down to the East Branch. We had good fishing in the special reg area upstream from Fishs Eddy. We saw light cahills, slate drakes (isonychia), sulphurs, tiny blue wing olives, yellow cranefly, and all types of caddis. They are releasing water from the dam, which has the water up about a foot, but it is running clear    The West branch is high and discolored from NY releasing water full bore for the last few months.  People are fishing it, but your better off on the East Branch. Todd R. Seigfried    aluxpo.att.com!trs *  Todd Seigfried’ Custom Flies                                       * *  Custom flies, fly tying instruction, Licensed Delaware River Guide *

Response:

Just got back from a weekend in the Roscoe area. The water is very low, but fishable. BUT trout are few and far between. The low water seems to have driven most of the fish out.

Ahem.  There are plenty of fish in the Beaverkill.  They are just hard to catch.  I was also in the Roscoe area last weekend, fishing the Beaverkill and Willowemoc.  I saw plenty of fish, especially in the riffles and deeper pools.  But they were not feeding on the surface despite good hatches of BWOs and other flies.  Managed a few on nymphs, and it is tough fishing.  But there are plenty of fish in the river.

Response:

Question:

Todd,     Visit Kaufmanns in Tigard try some parking lot casting and get a catalog. You might consider one of their schools.  The Anglers Club of Portland meets at the East Bank Saloon on the 2nd thursday of every month…not a bad place to start meeting people.  Members include many local and some national fishing luminaries.  I think Jim Shollmeyer, local guide, much published photographer and author will be speaker.                             Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

Response:

FWIW, on the Portland aspect of this thread there are lots of f.f. videos in the Multnomah County Library system; my college roommate learned to cast from the ones he checked out at the brach near us (I can’t remember the name, how sad…  Capitol Hill?  near PCC-Sylvania).  I expect the main library would have a listing of titles.  There are even fish in Johnson Creek in Milwaukie if you have a free evening– don’t know if I’d keep them to eat, but fun to chase if you don’t have time to leave town.   Also lots of toxic bass/panfish in the Columbia slough and some of the little lakes on Sauvie’s Island. Enjoy- — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University        Dept. of History                 "Nothing interesting occurred today…"         -Meriwether Lewis at Ft. Clatsop, Oregon, Jan.4th, 1806

Response:

Fujinaka) writes: Do I take a class?

The short answer is yes.  It will save you years of trial and error and frustration.  It will also save you from spending lots of time correcting bad habits that you developed on your own.  I would recommend that you get instruction from a FFF Certified Fly Casting Instructor, or get references from from former students of a non-certified instructor.  Fly fishing clubs can be a good source for instruction though quality of instruction can be erratic. Do I watch a video?

 I would recommend a few:  "The Essence of Fly Casting (vol.1)"  by Mel Krieger. IMHO the best casting video so far.  Has little fishing info in it but a great treatise on casting.  "Skills of Fly Fishing" by Gary Borger. Gives lots of great info on equipment, knots, fishing a dry, nymph and streamer fly, all about water types, etc.   The weak point in this video is the casting, get the Krieger video for that.  Another good one that has been around for quite a while is "Anatomy of a Trout Stream" by Rick Haefle.  Even though he squints into the sun while he’s talking to you, the info is very good. Do I go to the expensive store in downtown Portland and let them have their way with me?

Depends on how they treat newbies.  If they realize your value to them as a long term customer, they will get you the best bang for your buck.  If not, they will try to sell you the moon.  Ask around about the reputation of the shop.  There are plenty in your area if the downtown one doesn’t work out.  It’s been about 8 years since I lived in your area, but I used to do business with "Stewart’s Custom Tackle" on Halsey out by Wood Village and "The Fly Shop" in Welches (near the junction of the Salmon River and the Sandy).  Both were reputable and helpful shops.  Ask around.   Mail order from Kaufmann’s in Tigard is safe as they will take back anything you order but don’t like when it arrives.                                                       Hope this helps,                                                                    Dan

Response:

Sounds like a candidate for the most up to date fly fishing instruction you can own, Fly Fishing the McCloud River, the computer game sold at Orvis SF and other fine fly shops.  I think it is great. Right Dan!

Response:

I’d like to know how to get started, and I can’t find a FAQ. I’ve WATCHED a lot of people fish, especially in Japan and I’ve always wanted to learn how to fly fish. Do I take a class? Do I watch a video? Do I go to the expensive store in downtown Portland and let them have their way with me? Even more regionally, I’m in NW Portland, away from the East County stores. Maybe I should mail order? Help! So far I’ve read two short stories by Hemmingway and half of _The Orvis Fly-Fishing Guide_. Oh, and _A River Runs Through It_. And I spent several hours standing in a the John Day near Monument, OR watching a friend fish the John Day (I caught a watch, but that’s another story). Thanks for any help! — Home is where you wear your hat.

Response: