Question:

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

The other night at terminal 2 Heathrow the last flights of the day were abnormally busy. The queue for the non  European passport holders was taking about 90 to 120 minutes to get through, and consisted of a mix of all nationalities. I happened to be in the immigration hall and stayed to monitor the queue. On five occasions I was approached by a person coming from an area between Canada and Mexico and the conversation went along similar lines. "Are you in charge here", "No and I’m nothing to do with the immigration service" where upon I was given a mouthful of abuse on how to run things and one person went as far a spitting on me. While these examples of how a certain nationality behaves when it travels abroad was going on I kept looking at a rather tall gentleman towards the back of the queue who seemed vaguely familiar. It wasn’t until after he had left politely wishing us a good evening that I realised it was a very well known Aussie tennis player, who now doubt had he asked would have been fast tracked but he didn’t and just waited with everyone. Seems the Aussies can behave a lot better than certain others. — Lansbury LHR(T2) www.uk-air.net

Response:

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him.

Really ??? JT: agreed LOL DuHasse! risking a lil less endowment by the dork dictionary ROFL

Response:

 I will definitely fly QANTAS next time…peace, quiet, kids kept under control, not staring into the balding head of the person in front whilst trying to eat lunch….definitely sounds like my sort of airline.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Quite! sounds like the usual ‘family from hell’ who cannot control children or dicipline them or keep them quiet, why the hell should we suffer because of their unruly behaviour, Good old Qantas staff,  we need a few more of them around in this day and age of unruly parents and kids. martin

Response:

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Well known fact in airline circles, the reason that Qantas has a higher number of male -well built flight attendants on the Asia/London routes is to get the ozzies well inebriated on their beer before Singapore, and then they sleep the way to London without much more bother, those that do make it, are well dealt with by the *heavies* on board.

QF male FA’s are well – known in gay circles for being *very* cute.  Dating one is a "catch"…. — Best Greg gregorymorrowatmsndotcom

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I’ve long thought that now smoking is banned on almost all carriers that it is long past time that children and their unruly parents were sat at the back of the cabin.

I have been seated across the aisle from a baby and even right next to a baby on another flight (bulkkead, middle section). All were very long flights (10+ hours). And none were a real problem. In the case of the baby across the aisle, I remember it being entertaining in the morning because the baby was really cute and trying to grab passengers waiting in line to go to the bathroom. It was entertaining. Perhaps I have been lucky, and I realise that perhaps some babies are noiser than others, but I doubt that a baby would cry for 10 hours nonstop. For shorter flights though where a significant portion of the flight is the descent, I guess one could state that the baby bcried most of the way.

Response:

five occasions I was approached by a person coming from an area between Canada and Mexico and the conversation went along similar lines. "Are you in charge here",

In all fairness to the folks between canada and mexico, there are some of them who are nice educated tourists. The problem with those is that by their nature, you do not notice them. And if you only notice the loud impolite ones, then you do get a very bad image from the tourists of that country. Seems the Aussies can behave a lot better than certain others.

I think that Kiwis would disagree with that statement, especially when they refer to Sydneysiders. Does the expression "loud and brash" ring a bell ? Every country has bad tourists. But I agree that people from certain countries expects to be treated like kings and don’t accept that folks do things differently in different parts of the world. And those tend to stand out. But when you think about it, Parisians should be thankful of McDonalds and EuroDisney. Those tourists would tend to go to McDonalds, thus enabling good restaurants in Paris to remain free of such tourists

Response:

I’ve long thought that now smoking is banned on almost all carriers that it is long past time that children and their unruly parents were sat at the back of the cabin. I’ve never thought it alright to have someone else’s brat inflicted on adults for any amount of time, let alone a long haul flight. It’s even worse when you get one in the premium cabins from where in my opinion anyone under the age of 16 ought to be banned! For several years at check-in I’ve stated that I don’t mind where I sit as long as there are no children in the adjoining rows, I know a few people who now do the same – maybe the airlines will listen!

I find that when parents, who really have no business being parents, allow their children to run amok and laugh as the little shits pester people, change their attitude rather quickly when they hear someone say "If someone doesn’t get these little cunts under control they’re going to be short a few kids" and the kids are miraculously whisked away (they suddenly remember that they are parents and have a job to do). Maybe it’s not the politest of ways to handle such a situation, but hey, it’s not polite to inflict your kids on other people either.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Quite! sounds like the usual ‘family from hell’ who cannot control children or dicipline them or keep them quiet, why the hell should we suffer because of their unruly behaviour, Good old Qantas staff,  we need a few more of them around in this day and age of unruly parents and kids. martin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved). Quiet and well-behaved when you have had two complaints already?!!! I DON’T THINK SO MATE! You’re just a wee bit delusional there. I’ve had too many experiences with children sitting next to me that finally I’ve decided to have the ‘no thanks, no more children next to me’. All the worse experiences have been there from this little girl who wanted to go the toilet screaming her head off when we were about to land (BA Madrid-London), to a group of four children taking all the middle seats and since I was flying alone I had to be seated next to them while they played seats switching UNTIL finally this little brat (oh how  children are cursed by one rotten apple) spilled his orange juice all over me while I was fucking sleeping (BA/QA codeshare Sydney-London) . Nah in this regard, keep your fucking children well-behaved. Especially in long flights. And rest assured I won’t be taking any of my children on any long flights until they reach their teen years. Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. LOL

I’ve long thought that now smoking is banned on almost all carriers that it is long past time that children and their unruly parents were sat at the back of the cabin. I’ve never thought it alright to have someone else’s brat inflicted on adults for any amount of time, let alone a long haul flight. It’s even worse when you get one in the premium cabins from where in my opinion anyone under the age of 16 ought to be banned! For several years at check-in I’ve stated that I don’t mind where I sit as long as there are no children in the adjoining rows, I know a few people who now do the same – maybe the airlines will listen! Pete.

Response:

on an Aussie woman

I think you mean "in". The answer is probably … average… for an Australian.  ;) D.

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Well known fact in airline circles, the reason that Qantas has a higher number of male -well built flight attendants on the Asia/London routes is to get the ozzies well inebriated on their beer before Singapore, and then they sleep the way to London without much more bother, those that do make it, are well dealt with by the *heavies* on board. martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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says… I must admit that I have done the trip from the UK a few times and the Quantas service was not the best.We normally fly Singapore.

(Craig Welch impression on) Pity.  You may want to try Qantas instead. (Craig Welch impression off)

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him. So how big is the average dick on an Aussie woman?

Youre gay!

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Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him. So how big is the average dick on an Aussie woman?

Our women aren’t like the women you’re used to, they don’t have dicks, and we like it that way!

Response:

Quite! sounds like the usual ‘family from hell’ who cannot control children or dicipline them or keep them quiet, why the hell should we suffer because of their unruly behaviour, Good old Qantas staff,  we need a few more of them around in this day and age of unruly parents and kids. martin

It sounds like a Troll to me, and not a very good one. Herdy.

Response:

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him.

So how big is the average dick on an Aussie woman?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Reminds me of the words of Charles Luckman: "The trouble with America is that there are far too many wide open spaces surrounded by teeth."

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him.

One of the main reasons I moved from the UK to Adelaide,South Australia was due to the people and their attitude. I suppose the lousy weather and cost of living does make a lot of Brits miserable – but there are many good un’s. I have never felt so welcome as when in Australia , people are so welcoming and helpful ( just started fishing and I have had loads of offers to teach me ). Perhaps the people who complain about Aussies and Brits should mix with them a little more. I must admit that I have done the trip from the UK a few times and the Quantas service was not the best.We normally fly Singapore. Russell — — auSEElife Run by migrants -for migrants Lot 11 Penneys Rise,Onkaparinga Hills,SA 5163 ICQ 119580733, Yahoo Messenger:russ1926,Fax +61 8 8186 1538

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seem ur kids must be a right snob maybe ..view it from the other viewpoint of pax .. most kids can be quiet and stuff but maybe ur wasnt? look outside the circle… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you expect when you take kids on a plane.  Most people want to have a QUIET relaxing flight. Not have screaming bloody kids jumping up and down infront of them. You people with kids should for once in your lives consider that a lot of people dont actually like kids and find them rather annoying. You must have just picked the two worst lots of flights then cos I can tell you Qantas is on of Aus’s best airlines. My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Q

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seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).

Quiet and well-behaved when you have had two complaints already?!!! I DON’T THINK SO MATE! You’re just a wee bit delusional there. I’ve had too many experiences with children sitting next to me that finally I’ve decided to have the ‘no thanks, no more children next to me’. All the worse experiences have been there from this little girl who wanted to go the toilet screaming her head off when we were about to land (BA Madrid-London), to a group of four children taking all the middle seats and since I was flying alone I had to be seated next to them while they played seats switching UNTIL finally this little brat (oh how  children are cursed by one rotten apple) spilled his orange juice all over me while I was fucking sleeping (BA/QA codeshare Sydney-London) . Nah in this regard, keep your fucking children well-behaved. Especially in long flights. And rest assured I won’t be taking any of my children on any long flights until they reach their teen years. Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

LOL

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him.

Response:

What do you expect when you take kids on a plane.  Most people want to have a QUIET relaxing flight. Not have screaming bloody kids jumping up and down infront of them. You people with kids should for once in your lives consider that a lot of people dont actually like kids and find them rather annoying. You must have just picked the two worst lots of flights then cos I can tell you Qantas is on of Aus’s best airlines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Well, well … the gospel according to something that calls itself

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Know all the Brits then do you? well Thanks for tarring us all with the same – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

I am in the market for a trailerable boat in the 22-26 foot range to be used in the ocean around the Channel Islands to mostly cruise and dive from.  I don’t really do that much fishing but would use it do dive but also be comfortable to sleep preferably up to 4 people.  I have always liked the Skipjacks and heard they are good in the ocean and enjoy the fly bridge.  I am looking for a good solid sea-worthy craft.  Single engine or double, im open on that.  Would love to take it someday up to the inner waterways up North of Washington and do a nice trip that way. Any recommendations on makes and models would be greatly appreciated. James

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Expensive, but nice.  Davis Boats in Morro Bay.  Rock Harbor 36. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the market for a trailerable boat in the 22-26 foot range to be used in the ocean around the Channel Islands to mostly cruise and dive from.  I don’t really do that much fishing but would use it do dive but also be comfortable to sleep preferably up to 4 people.  I have always liked the Skipjacks and heard they are good in the ocean and enjoy the fly bridge.  I am looking for a good solid sea-worthy craft.  Single engine or double, im open on that.  Would love to take it someday up to the inner waterways up North of Washington and do a nice trip that way. Any recommendations on makes and models would be greatly appreciated. James

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OOPs Make that the Rock Harbor 25.  Bad fingers. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Expensive, but nice.  Davis Boats in Morro Bay.  Rock Harbor 36. Bill I am in the market for a trailerable boat in the 22-26 foot range to be used in the ocean around the Channel Islands to mostly cruise and dive from.  I don’t really do that much fishing but would use it do dive but also be comfortable to sleep preferably up to 4 people.  I have always liked the Skipjacks and heard they are good in the ocean and enjoy the fly bridge.  I am looking for a good solid sea-worthy craft.  Single engine or double, im open on that.  Would love to take it someday up to the inner waterways up North of Washington and do a nice trip that way. Any recommendations on makes and models would be greatly appreciated. James

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Question:

I think they are all wrong about too much oil. Based on past experience I would think that it is probably the muffler bearings. When they go they create excessive back pressure from the exhaust system and hince the smoke. It’s a pretty common problem. Seek professional help on this one.

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I think they are all wrong about too much oil. Based on past experience I would think that it is probably the muffler bearings. When they go they create excessive back pressure from the exhaust system and hince the smoke. It’s a pretty common problem. Seek professional help on this one.

Good thought, but with newer models (since 1985), the automatic framistat compensates for the back pressure. Joe F.

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I think they are all wrong about too much oil. Based on past experience I would think that it is probably the muffler bearings. When they go they create excessive back pressure from the exhaust system and hince the smoke. It’s a pretty common problem. Seek professional help on this one. Good thought, but with newer models (since 1985), the automatic framistat compensates for the back pressure.

True, but hardly worth noting in light of the fact that the muffler bearings can simply be repacked with about 12 feet of shoreline which, obviously, makes the framistat not only superfluous but also a positive hindrance as its mere presence interferes with the balance of the idler hozzy wozzy.  Excessive engineering at its best!

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True, but hardly worth noting in light of the fact that the muffler bearings can simply be repacked with about 12 feet of shoreline

C’mon guys, quit messing with him. Everyone knows muffler bearings are easy to replace. He should be able to get a set at any marina and I’d expect even Pep Boys carries them. — Charlie…

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True, but hardly worth noting in light of the fact that the muffler bearings can simply be repacked with about 12 feet of shoreline which, obviously, makes the framistat not only superfluous but also a positive hindrance as its mere presence interferes with the balance of the idler hozzy wozzy.  Excessive engineering at its best!

That’s exactly why OMC abandoned the idler hozzy wozzy in 1992.   I think Mercury kept the idler design, but replaced the framistat manifold with a gunkulator assembly.   I never owned one, so I’m not sure about that. Joe F.

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True, but hardly worth noting in light of the fact that the muffler bearings can simply be repacked with about 12 feet of shoreline C’mon guys, quit messing with him. Everyone knows muffler bearings are easy to replace. He should be able to get a set at any marina and I’d expect even Pep Boys carries them.

Yeah, but you gotta have metric crescent wrench to get at ‘em. Joe F.

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C’mon guys, quit messing with him. Everyone knows muffler bearings are easy to replace. Yeah, but you gotta have metric crescent wrench to get at ‘em.

A metric LEFT-HANDED monkey wrench and an ACME skyhook if I recall my "small engine manual for flyfishermen" correctly. — Ken Fortenberry

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That’s exactly why OMC abandoned the idler hozzy wozzy in 1992.   I think Mercury kept the idler design, but replaced the framistat manifold with a gunkulator assembly.   I never owned one, so I’m not sure about that. Joe F.

That gunkulator is a piece of crap, give me a hozzy and a framistat any day. BTW, if you don’t have time or money to redo the muffler bearings, you can get by for a couple months by pouring a bunch of STP into the blinker fluid, or switching to a higher viscosity prequambulator lube.  Don’t wait too long though, or your hozzy wozzy nozzle will plug up. Don’t listen to Charlie, he’s obviously no boat mechanic. — Levi "There are no facts, only interpretations." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s exactly why OMC abandoned the idler hozzy wozzy in 1992.   I think Mercury kept the idler design, but replaced the framistat manifold with a gunkulator assembly.   I never owned one, so I’m not sure about that. Joe F. That gunkulator is a piece of crap, give me a hozzy and a framistat any day. BTW, if you don’t have time or money to redo the muffler bearings, you can get by for a couple months by pouring a bunch of STP into the blinker fluid, or switching to a higher viscosity prequambulator lube.  Don’t wait too long though, or your hozzy wozzy nozzle will plug up.

Ya got that right.    Once your hozzy wozzy nozzle plugs up, your lower unit is shot to hell. Joe F.

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Don’t listen to Charlie, he’s obviously no boat mechanic.

I used to be a quantum mechanic, though – although someone said they make cars by that name nowadays and I *don’t* work on cars<g. — Charlie…

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Youse guys are really cruel.  I guy writes in to a fly fishing ng about problems with exhaust bearings on his outboard motor, and you make fun of him and his problem.  For shame, for shame.  It almost makes me want to go to alt.fishing.timbo….. Dave LaCourse

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Sure, every one carries them, but you need a left handed frankinjerk to get the old ones out and they are hard to find. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – True, but hardly worth noting in light of the fact that the muffler bearings can simply be repacked with about 12 feet of shoreline C’mon guys, quit messing with him. Everyone knows muffler bearings are easy to replace. He should be able to get a set at any marina and I’d expect even Pep Boys carries them. — Charlie…

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"Gunkulator" ?   Sounds dangerously familiar somehow ? TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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A Siemens lufthaken is necessary for holding the foo-foo valve in the correct position while carrying out adjustments.  This is difficult when one is all at sea. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Don’t listen to Charlie, he’s obviously no boat mechanic. I used to be a quantum mechanic, though – although someone said they make cars by that name nowadays and I *don’t* work on cars<g. — Charlie…

I guess a quantum mechanic would advise changing oil every 300 billion light years? — Levi "There are no facts, only interpretations." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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That gunkulator is a piece of crap, give me a hozzy and a framistat any day. BTW, if you don’t have time or money to redo the muffler bearings, you can get by for a couple months by pouring a bunch of STP into the blinker fluid, or switching to a higher viscosity prequambulator lube.  Don’t wait too long though, or your hozzy wozzy nozzle will plug up.

All of this is good info, but after doing some research and asking a small engine mechanic who is a friend of mine, we both came to the conclusion that the flux capacitor also might be the problem.  It would definitely make the plugs foul quicker since they aren’t receiving enough juice and would account for the unburnt fuel/oil you are seeing. I would suggest checking into all of the possibilities.  If it is the flux capacitor, you might as well replace the muffler bearings and such at the same time.  You are basically going to have to tear the engine apart to get at the capacitor anyways. HTH. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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Hey, Vern, you should be able to help this guy. You probably know some small engine mechanics. -- visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Hey, Vern, you should be able to help this guy. You probably know some small engine mechanics.

        i'm pleased to observe that a little time in the pacific didn't rust the old needle, rw.  hilarious. wayno

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Fly fishing NG???  Amount of smoking is relative term.  All 2 cycles smoke. Did you mix the proper ratio of oil to gas for that engine, probably 50 to 1. Pull the plug and look at it. If the oil mixture was right and the plug is sooty black and wet, the engine is probably low on compression. Perfectly usable but don't leave shore without spare plugs to put in when it fouls. jim

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I am new to boating. I have an old Outboard Marine 7.5hp two cycle engine. I was having a tough time starting it and keeping it going. I changed the spark plugs and it started up and seems to be running great. The only problem seems to be excessive blue smoke coming from the exhaust. Could this be a result of two much oil in the gas ? Are there other things I should check out ? Thanks in advance for your help.

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- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Try cutting back on the oil.                                    [Image]                                    [Image]                                   [Image]                                 Drive Me There Try to learn a little something about the forum before you come barging in with a bunch of bullshit. It’s called netiquette and you’re in dire need of it. — Ken Fortenberry

no kidding, i’ve never had any other post here try to send me cookies and all the java error messages…. 64 galaxie will not be read by me again. chris

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Try cutting back on the oil.

Drive Me There

EcardsEcards#2Expedia mapsJERRY F Bible MapblastF-KEYSPhoto pointMUSIC-100Music ShopClearCache

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Try cutting back on the oil.

Try posting with just text instead of all the webtv html junk. — Charlie…

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Try cutting back on the oil.                                    [Image]                                    [Image]                                   [Image]                                 Drive Me There

Try to learn a little something about the forum before you come barging in with a bunch of bullshit. It’s called netiquette and you’re in dire need of it. — Ken Fortenberry

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I am new to boating. I have an old Outboard Marine 7.5hp two cycle engine. I was having a tough time starting it and keeping it going. I changed the spark plugs and it started up and seems to be running great. The only problem seems to be excessive blue smoke coming from the exhaust. Could this be a result of two much oil in the gas ? Are there other things I should check out ? Thanks in advance for your help.

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I am new to boating.

        well, that makes you and this newsgroup about even.  I have an old Outboard Marine 7.5hp two cycle engine. I was having a tough time starting it and keeping it going. I changed the spark plugs and it started up and seems to be running great. The only problem seems to be excessive blue smoke coming from the exhaust. Could this be a result of two much oil in the gas ?

        more likely it’s a result of three two much oil in the gas.  Are there other things I should check out ?

        your clue bag.  i think it’s empty. Thanks in advance for your help.

        oh, any time. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

AA Outfitters (used to be AA Pro Shop I think) used to carry them, had some pretty good prices on mostly cosmetic seconds.  I haven’t bought from them in a couple of years though so I’m not sure if they still do. -jerry http://www.gorp.com/aa_pro/default.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

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Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

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Cote’s Fly Shop in Leicester Ma., sells blems and seconds as well as excellent rods made with them by Ray Cote. Call 508-892-3765 and tell them Jerry Schrader sent you. Jerry Schrader, a pro wedding photog.  http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

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Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

The Anglers Workshop, www.anglersworkshop.com, sells blems at a pretty good price too.

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Two good sources for blems are: Jon King at JJ King Flyfishing Co., Alturas, CA Excellent deals, special rates for clubs & associations. Jon King is very honest, very helpful.  I built a 10 foot 9 weight from a two piece blem and his parts/components kit and it turned out to be an excellent salmon/steelhead rod.  I think the prices are $6/foot for four piece blanks and $5/foot for a two piece rod. honest, helpful guy.  He’s a guide in the Phoenix area so he may not answer your email right away if he’s out with a client guiding. The man has a good selection of blems. I bought a bunch of Berkley 4 piece blems for $25 each and turned them into excellent rods.  I got a 4 weight, a 6 weight, and an 8 weight, all 9 feet long.  Plus some other even cheaper blems made by Kunan (?) to practice on. Even these Korean blanks which I bought to play with, fearing to ruin a high end blank, turned into pretty decent 5 wghts. Al Soroka Vancouver, B.C.

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Question:

See "Presentation" by Borger, or LaFontaine’s "Caddis" book.  Overpower a sidearm cast, just like skipping a stone on the water. It might work, but when I try it I always feel like a pompous ass. Oh-oh.  POLITICAL CORRECTION: for the illiterate out there, I mean that to be a four-legged animal, not somebody’s butt. BB

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Thanks everyone for oyur help! I will let you know how I go… PS Got my second trout on fly yesterday…. Put up a terrific fight for the size.  I got three big runs from this fish with line stipping of at a rate of knots… I thought it was a monster but it turned out to be about 1.5 lb. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

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(and so did charlie choc) The author is Leonard M. Wright jr, "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect," Dutton, 1972.

If, as charlie suggests, it is out of print, try the public libraries. Its a neat old book with some unorthodox solutions to some still relevant problems. The patterns he suggests and the materials he uses are not as water repellant nor as buoyant as the elk hair caddis, however, so you might want to use Wright’s technique, but stick with the EHC. brent

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Mike Here’s another method that’s worked for me.  Use a long rod, very long leader 12′ with a very light tippet and stand almost directly upstream of the fish.   As the fly approaches the end of the drag free drift, lift the rod tip up and get all of the line and leader out of the water.  The fly just lightly dances on top of the water.  I’ve had a ‘bow jump 6" out of the water to take a fly danced this way. It works best if the wind and stream currents are going the same way, but it is difficult to get right if they are in opposite directions. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

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Brent The author is Leonard M. Wright jr, "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect," Dutton, 1972. Dave Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (some good advice on technique and a probable origin for the technique) Mike: If you are looking to dig even deeper, check out "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect" by (an author I know, but whose name escapes me this early on a sunday – damn that aluminum cookware!). He describes how to tie and fish the ‘fluttering caddis’, but using hackle barbules and mink hair rather than elk hair. In any case, as Walt points out, the fish love the fly and the technique. good luck brent

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

maybe try looking at some of Lefty’s writings – also try FFM website, www.flyshop.com.  http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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(some good advice on technique and a probable origin for the technique) Mike: If you are looking to dig even deeper, check out "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect" by (an author I know, but whose name escapes me this early on a sunday – damn that aluminum cookware!). He describes how to tie and fish the ‘fluttering caddis’, but using hackle barbules and mink hair rather than elk hair. In any case, as Walt points out, the fish love the fly and the technique. good luck brent

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it…

I skip a caddis after the initial drift is completed.  Landlocked salmon love it when the fly reaches the end of the drift and swings around to be straight down stream.  A retrieve back with sudden jerks of the rod will also encourage hits. However, this only works for a certain kind of caddis, usually in June in Maine.  The same trick applied in September does not produce the same results. Dave LaCourse

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it…

There is no "right" way to do this. Experimentation is always worthwhile. I get 80%+ of my fish on a drag free drift, even on caddis. Fish feeding on Duns or emergers can be put down if there is any drag or motion to your fly, especially on heavily fished areas. I generally fish an area first using a drag free approach and then try some twitching or induced drag. Generally, just a twitch which moves the fly ever so slightly is what’s needed. However, in riffles and runs, more pronounced skips and hops followed by drag free drifts can be productive. A technique that sometimes brings up reluctant surface feeders in pocket water is a down stream technique. Wade upstream and to the side of one of the mini pools in a pocket stretch, until you are ten to fifteen feet away. In pocket water, fish are not easily spooked and a close approach is generally possible. Make a short cast to the side of the pocket you’re going to fish, raise your rod tip so that all the line and leader is off the water and hop a heavily dressed dry in and around the mini pool. With this technique, you can generally use a fly one or two sizes larger than what you would use on flatter water and a heavier tippets is also helpful. Strikes are violent. Fish will often will swipe at the fly but will hit it if your next cast is a drag free one. This is a good midsummer technique.  Especially in midsummer, these stretches of pocket water hold lots of fish including some good ones. Willi

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

 Mike, By twitching your rod real fast you send vibrations out your flyline/leader/tippet to the caddis. This causes the fly to "dance" on the water and it is a rare trout that can resist this flamenco. Here in the mountains of NC, there is a deceased flyfishing legend by the name of Mark Cathey. He "developed" this style back in the 20’s & 30’s on Hazel Creek and he always managed to fill his creel with the limit. Good luck with your dancing lessons, Walt —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS/HOME.HTM

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Question:

Are there any good fly shops in Montreal? I want to take advantage of the

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Last I checked (I live up the road in Ottawa), there were two fly shops in downtown Montreal on (I think McGill Street).  One of them is called Boutique Salmo Nature.  Another option is to call up WWW.WWDOAK.COM.  They are in New Brunswick, but they do a lot of mail order business with American sports.  Also, they have small town overhead, so they might be cheaper than a downtown Montreal shop. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any good fly shops in Montreal? I want to take advantage of

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Are there any good fly shops in Montreal? I want to take advantage of the

Try Peter Farago at Boutique Classique Angler, 414 McGill St. Montreal (514) 878-3474.  Salmo Nature, the Orvis shop, is on McGill also, just a couple of blocks down from Classique.  But I don’t have their business card for the details. Peter Email address hacked. Remove -delete-this- to email a reply.

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There are a few good fly shps in Montreal, but if your interrested you could contact the Montreal Fly Fish Association (Moucheurs Montreal M

Question:

I would appreciate info as to whether there is bonefishing (and/or flyfishing for other species) on Jamaica. Thanks in advance. Brad Hall

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"they" say there is no fly fishing in jamaica. The truth is is that there are small flats all over the place with lots of good potential. Montego bay itself has lots of tarpon. E.G. The road from Montego bay to Ocho Rios runs along the north shore and you can stop just about anywhere and see narrow flats bordered from the ocean by low reef that are easy and accesible. Don’t be adfraid to stop at the roadside jerk stands or bars. They look like shacks, but the people are great , the food is good and the fishing is right there. Take your stuff and look around. I. Clair

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Question:

will be in outer banks for the thanksgiving holidays.. would like to find small  blues etc.. any recommendations would help.. also is there the possibility of  a trout stream near that area.. Kevin

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will be in outer banks for the thanksgiving holidays.. would like to find small blues etc.. any recommendations would help.. also is there the possibility of a trout stream near that area.. Kevin

At Thanksgiving there should be some small blues about but what about the big boiyz!  they are going to be there at that time.  AS wellas striped bass and red drum.  There will be plenty of trout, speckled sea trout, at the lighthouse for a person fishing a clouser minnow with a sinking line. No streams within 8 hour drive, sorry.  Check my website for NC flyfishing stuff. — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill                                        http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                     Dragon’s Hope Publishing Heidi Dragon Churchill                                               Business cards, ad design, forms and all manner of desktop publishing.      

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass !                                               jc COME ON!    jeeze!   you guys are relentless!  The level thing was obviously (to me) a tongue in cheek post concerning the realization that that you really *are* here to be in the moment and enjoy your surroundings : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…   If you guys would stop trying to be so damned elitist, you would see that half the posts you flame are posts you would agree with if you would take the time to read them.

Congratulations, You have demonstrated a command of the language which may be unobtainable by the "elitists".  Words do have meaning.  Reading is such hard work. Dennis

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: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… I’m at all these levels, I love to fish and catch fish, whether it’s tarpon in Florida or bluegill down the road, or just watching a trout feed and not wetting a line.  Why limit yourself.  I will fish for anything, anywhere, anytime and enjoy it. John

Well said! Jack

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How many of you were ever new to flyfishing? Do you remember that first stike, how the excitement surged as you "swung and missed". And that rush as you clumsily horsed in you first fish. And what about the satifaction as you let that first big brute go after a battle well fought. Let us not loose sight of why we fish…That big chess game we play with Mother Nature. Instead of limiting the players, why not educate them on how the "game" is played. Anyone who wants to enjoy this wonderfull sport of Flyfishing should be able to WITHOUT the harassment of others. Maybe a helping hand should be extended instead of a judgemental finger. Dana Clark

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Pavlov) writes: : : tim:  look, why don’t you cut folks like the originator of this thread : a little slack.  he did nothing to deserve your relentless sarcasm, … : Maybe everyone is getting a little touchy.  I don’t see how Tim’s posts reflected on the originator of the thread.  The one that you quoted was a response to someone else altogether.  greg pavlov

It never fails to amaze me that regardless of the hobby, there are those who use their proficiency as a weapon to downgrade those who are less accomplished.  When I first got into photography (prior to the wonders of the internet) I ran into the same smug and demeaning attitude I find on this forum on occasion.  Let’s face it, after A River Ran Through It was released thousands of newcomers became enamoured with flyfishing.  Some of these people are just trendy types who confuse fishing with ownership of all the toys.  They will never really appreciate the joy of standing in a stream and taking it all in. Most of these people will fish awhile and then put their equipment in the closet along with the remains of their other short-term obsessions.  On the other hand, there are those who seriously enjoy the experience and who plan on spending the next several years learning flyfishing and being responsible in what they do.  Oldbies should take the time to learn the difference. Bo Johnson

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Dear Gentlemen;         If I may expand this idea of "the clothes make the man": Sure, there are a lot of middle-aged and younger flyfisherman with the newer more technologically developed gear, but look at where 4-wheel drives have gone.  Who would have ever though a uper-mid. class house wife would lust after a Chevy Blazer, for heaven’s sake!  There are a lot of established F.Fisherman here in the east who don’t have a lot of money and who persue their sport with the single-midedness of an olympic athelete.  They welcomed me to thier waters, (if not thier ranks, yet), and gave me the info I neede to catch fish.  None of these guys act in a demeaning way if you do not have the best equipment.  If you have the *right* equip., that is important.  They know what will catch trout.  They also know that just having the right equip. guarantees nothing.  Stuff works or it doesn’t.  Sometimes, no matter how good you rod is, well, trout can’t read, and they have no concept of money.  Some fantastic F.Fisherman from my home area, NW PA, have rather inexpensive glass rods and cheap reels.  They learned long ago that the flyline and the presentation of a fly which the trout *might* take are the most important factors.  We cannot get on people’s cases about equipment.  Technique will be lost.  I honestly need better technique.  I know I don’t do what I should as well as I should, but expensive equipment (or new) will not help me.  Overall, I have found that the oldest of the order are the most accepting of new blood.  They are less competetive for fish.  I owe them tremendously.                   Sincerely;                 Jason Beary

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Another level altogether: when you take your neighbor’s kid out because he/she looks a little down.  You leave your rod behind so you can concentrate on helping this youngster have the best time he/she possibly can. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

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"Another level altogether: when you take your neighbor’s kid out because he/she looks a little down.  You leave your rod behind so you can concentrate on helping this youngster have the best time he/she possibly can." This person is a "master" fly fisher. We all concentrate on our equipment, where we fish, how many fish we catch and so on. After many years we reach a level where we own fine quality equipment, we’ve fished all of the popular waters for a variety of species, and we’ve caught more fish than we can remember – and probably fewer than we sometimes profess. At this time we are regarded by our peers and ourselves as accomplished and notable fly fishers. But, until you take the time to pass along you knowledge, in a gentle and patient manner, you have not mastered the sport. Congratulations on reaching this ultimate plateau.

Response:

I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment 2)catch lots of fish 3)catch a large fish 4)catch lots of large fish 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…

Is it possible that there is a (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Rowing my little dory on trappers lake and seeing all of the cutts in the gin clear water with no desire for… Dooo Dooo Dooo…. …ripping lips. Tim Walker

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: (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. Nah… But I’d like to see… rec.outdoors.flyfishing.lets-put-the-fishing-back-in-flyfishing rec.outdoors.flyfishing.is_fashionable rec.outdoors.flyfishing.natural_order_is_extinct rec.outdoors.flyfishing.C&R.might_as_well_stock_the_olympic_sized_pool rec.outdoors.flyfishing.pensive rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless Tim Walker

tim:  look, why don’t you cut folks like the originator of this thread a little slack.  he did nothing to deserve your relentless sarcasm, which is simply becoming tiresome to many of us who might even agree with some of your positions.  if you want to engage in competitive verbal abuse, pick on someone your own size.  just email me or fletcher or jeff smith, etc., when you feel froggy.  meanwhile, let the newbies and the innocents alone to do their walden/thoreau thing in peace. a. wayne harrison

Response:

: : : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? : : Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" : because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. : : Nah… <blah, blah, blah : Tim Walker Tim… *yawn* oh, nevermind. -chuck o. —

Response:

I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment 2)catch lots of fish 3)catch a large fish 4)catch lots of large fish 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… Am I alone, or have others experienced this with their own fishing?? Oh yeah, I’m the guy who started the thread about discovering "slower" rods and increasing my enjoyment of the sport 10 fold… Dennis

Response:

: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… : Am I alone, or have others experienced this with their own fishing?? : Oh yeah, I’m the guy who started the thread about discovering "slower" : rods and increasing my enjoyment of the sport 10 fold… : Dennis Yea, I’ve reached level 5 too… But I skipped levels 2, 3, and 4. -chuck o. (not joanne b.) OST, maybe I did attain level 3 (w/o attaining level 2, of course)… depens on your definition of "large." —

Response:

: (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays.

Nah… But I’d like to see… rec.outdoors.flyfishing.lets-put-the-fishing-back-in-flyfishing rec.outdoors.flyfishing.is_fashionable rec.outdoors.flyfishing.natural_order_is_extinct rec.outdoors.flyfishing.C&R.might_as_well_stock_the_olympic_sized_pool rec.outdoors.flyfishing.pensive rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless Tim Walker

Response:

: But I’d like to see… : rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless What would be in this group… the 4 inchers or the 10 inchers? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Congratulations on attaining that state.  Welcome to the group of flyfishers that see the spiritual aspect of flyfishing.  Not only see it, but practice it. I too progressed through the process. Level 5.  Jonathan Livingston Seagull wondered what level is next. JJ

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? : : Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" : because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. : : Nah… <blah, blah, blah : Tim Walker Tim… *yawn* oh, nevermind. -chuck o. —

Go Tim! Go!

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WHAT IS IT WITH SOME OF YOU GUYS/GALS?  You were new to the sport at one time so why not give a lot of newbies a little slack?  We may be newer to it than you but we certainly do not come to it with any less honorabel intentions.  We too love the outdoors and the total experience.  We too love the idea of learning to excel at the sport.  SO, PLEASE forgive us if we take a spot on the water once in awhile.

It’s concepts like being at a "level" that make me feel like joining Tim Walker sometimes. There seems to be this "karate school" mentality about; white belt, yellow belt, black belt etc. that people need to attach to everything. It’s as if we need a constant reassurance of our self worth. The twisted thing is, fishing has traditionally been a place to get AWAY from this crap, it’s a mental state where you just exist as a part of the water. It’s inner peace. If it’s there for you, it’s there regardless of your ability. When I started FFing it was like 1967, and I used to fish in the ocean for pollock, mackerel, cod and the occasional sea raven, when is like a sea robin that inflates when out of the water, we used to call them ‘grubbies’. It was a delight for me to catch anything then. I never thought of a grubbie as being inferior to a striper, and had never heard of tarpon, bones, etc. Now I catch mostly stripers & blues, but this summer I was standing on the dock at our marina just dangling a clouser in a couple feet of water and up comes this mass of weeds – no it’s a grubbie! and arcs under the fly, returning to the piling he lived at. I was thrilled, by a ‘trash’ fish. The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass !                                                 jc

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I have to confess, I’m a little surprised at the simplistic ideology being embraced in this thread.  To believe that any pursuit in life is a straight-line progression from crude to intellectually and spiritually superior is a little naive.  I have fished for 35+ years, 24 of those as a fly-fisher, and I have days when I just want to be out in the environs and every- thing else is secondary and days when catching a fish is almost a holy quest.   It depends on a lot of factors.  How long since the last time I was out?  Who am I with?  Have I ever fished this body of water before?  What kind of reputation does this water have?  Did I get a chance to tie any of those secret weapon flies I’ve been telling all my friends ‘can’t miss’?  How good am I feeling about myself this week?  It’s too complex to reduce to "I went though stage 1 in 1974, stage 2 in 1976, etc." I guess, to me, fishing is a form of play.  The child in me wants to be mature and philosophically superior.  But, it’s just a child and is too busy enjoying the pursuit to spend the time and energy analyzing its motives.  When it all comes together and I rise to that ‘higher plateau’, I enjoy the smug feeling.  And, when I’m in my neanderthal frame of reference, I enjoy that too. Just so there is no mistake– I always protect the resource to the best of my knowledge and ability.  I have removed many thousands of yards of monofilament from streams and beaches in my 35+ years. I never go into the woods that I don’t take a trash container and return with any trash I see, can reach, and can carry.  My sons were a little upset when they realized not everyone had a dad that made them pick up trash in the woods.  But, that’s just one of the rules of the game, as I play it! Tight lines and Happy times! Charley

Response:

WHAT IS IT WITH SOME OF YOU GUYS/GALS?  You were new to the sport at one time so why not give a lot of newbies a little slack?  We may be newer to it than you but we certainly do not come to it with any less honorabel intentions.  We too love the outdoors and the total experience.  We too love the idea of learning to excel at the sport.  SO, PLEASE forgive us if we take a spot on the water once in awhile.

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: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… I’m at all these levels, I love to fish and catch fish, whether it’s tarpon in Florida or bluegill down the road, or just watching a trout feed and not wetting a line.  Why limit yourself.  I will fish for anything, anywhere, anytime and enjoy it. John

Response:

The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass !                                            jc

COME ON!    jeeze!   you guys are relentless!  The level thing was obviously (to me) a tongue in cheek post concerning the realization that that you really *are* here to be in the moment and enjoy your surroundings : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…  

If you guys would stop trying to be so damned elitist, you would see that half the posts you flame are posts you would agree with if you would take the time to read them.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to confess, I’m a little surprised at the simplistic ideology being embraced in this thread.  To believe that any pursuit in life is a straight-line progression from crude to intellectually and spiritually superior is a little naive.  I have fished for 35+ years, 24 of those as a fly-fisher, and I have days when I just want to be out in the environs and every- thing else is secondary and days when catching a fish is almost a holy quest.   I guess, to me, fishing is a form of play.  The child in me wants to be mature and philosophically superior.  But, it’s just a child and is too busy enjoying the pursuit to spend the time and energy analyzing its motives.  When it all comes together and I rise to that ‘higher plateau’, I enjoy the smug feeling.  And, when I’m in my neanderthal frame of reference, I enjoy that too.

Dear Sir, You have summed up quite elonquently what I meant by spirituality.  I don’t recall writing the word "Superior".  I must clarify that my intention was not to convey a sense of superiority.  But, wanted to convey that the whole process represents spiritual growth.  There is no elitism here…..elitism has made me puke for years. JJ

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Question:

I will be in yosemite along the merced river  sept 13 for 10 days and would appreciate any advice on that or other nearby rivers: eg, patterns, line weight, good areas, guides, weather conditions, etc, etc.  please email me and thanks for the help.   daved

Response:

writes: I will be in yosemite along the merced river  sept 13 for 10 days and would appreciate any advice on that or other nearby rivers: eg, patterns, line weight, good areas, guides, weather conditions, etc, etc.  please email me and thanks for the help.   daved

I’ve never fished it, but "California Fly Fisher" magazine had a short article in their July-Aug ‘93 issue on the Merced.  Call them at (415)621-3117, maybe they can send you a back issue.  They said the better fishing for wild trout is outside the park.  Good luck, Bill Uyeki

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