Question:

My better half and I are launching an e-commerce Computer Store. Please take a look and pass the word to others. We have taken the plunge and after several months have opened the site for sales. We have free UPS ground shipping on all orders over $500. The site has digital cameras, web cameras, printers, monitors, notebooks, mice, etc. We’ll be adding more products weekly and can get most products even if not on the website. I feel awkward about putting this in newsgroups but I need to get the word out. I am only announcing this in forums that we have personal interests in. (RC Planes, Kayaking, EMS, Fly Fishing, etc) Yes, this blatant advertising. I apologize if I offends anyone. If there are complaints, I certainly won’t advertise again. Thank you for reading and I hope you like the store. www.computerthingies.com John Legg

Response:

Complaint here.   Don’t do it.  Leave the URL in your sig file and contribute to groups you’re interested in.  It’s slower, but it won’t piss people off enough to complain to your ISP.  Which I gave up bothering to do with SPAMmers (yes, you are.  Or at least advertising in conversational groups, which is a no-no) years ago.  However many still do.  Do you really want to lose your ISP and have to go find another email and Web site? If there are complaints, I certainly won’t advertise again.

— rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

You weren’t the only complaint and I certainly learned my lesson the hard way. I posted to 6 newsgroups that I have interests in. Shortly thereafter I posted apologies to 6 newsgroups that I had interests in. Well at least I thought I’d apologized to 6 newsgroups. It looks like I forgot this one. Sorry about that. I was hesitant to post and I certainly regret doing it. It won’t happen again. John Legg www.computerthingies.com

Response:

Complaint here.   Don’t do it.  Leave the URL in your sig file and contribute to groups you’re interested in.  It’s slower, but it won’t piss people off enough to complain to your ISP.  Which I gave up bothering to do with SPAMmers (yes, you are.  Or at least advertising in conversational groups, which is a no-no) years ago.  However many still do.  Do you really want to lose your ISP and have to go find another email and Web site?

I’ve contacted him off the group and explained to him the evils of spamming. Personally, I have a very low tolerance for spammers (mainly because they cost my business $$$) – but this guy genuinely did not realize that what he was doing was wrong.  He was also pretty worried about losing his account…I doubt he’ll ever spam again.  :-) –Tina — HOSTING: from $45 per YEAR + FREE Domain w/most       PHP/mySQL, SSI, CGI, installed scripts & more              Merchant Account + FREE hosting Info                     http://www.AffordableHost.com

Response:

Nice apology.  And you didn’t lose your account.  From the way you phrased it, it was pretty obvious you were a newbbie at the advertising thing, so I doubt if anyone got really hot about it.  At least not enough to complain to your ISP.  It’s one of those learning things.  As a sister-in-law once said, "Oh, lord how I HATE learning experiences."  Hey, it’s not like doing something really dumb with power tools and powerlines or bare arms. You weren’t the only complaint and I certainly learned my lesson the hard way. I posted to 6 newsgroups that I have interests in. Shortly thereafter I posted apologies to 6 newsgroups that I had interests in. Well at least I thought I’d apologized to 6 newsgroups. It looks like I forgot this one. Sorry about that. I was hesitant to post and I certainly regret doing it. It won’t happen again. John Legg www.computerthingies.com

— rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Question:

Taking a little jaunt to these areas.  Got any favorite campground for us tenters about Libby, and Rock Creek?  Any better guide services around Dillon or Wise River?    How’s Rock Creek and Yaak fishing?     Thanks. Schuh-fly

Response:

We went to Dillon 2 weeks ago for a few days.  The upper section of the Big Hole is closed to fishingnow, when we were there we were surprised at how low the Beaverhead and Big Hole were.  The water levels in the rivers and creeks are extremely low.  I live in Helena and work at a sporting good store, the reports that we’re getting from custormers is that Rock Creek fishing is poor due to low water.  Fishing has been great on the Missouri where the water level is low, but not low enough to cause concern yet.

Taking a little jaunt to these areas.  Got any favorite campground for us tenters about Libby, and Rock Creek?  Any better guide services around Dillon or Wise River?    How’s Rock Creek and Yaak fishing?     Thanks. Schuh-fly

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking a little jaunt to these areas.  Got any favorite campground for us tenters about Libby, and Rock Creek?  Any better guide services around Dillon or Wise River?    How’s Rock Creek and Yaak fishing?     Thanks. Schuh-fly

Response:

Question:

Hey Folks – Was fishing a small river in Washington a couple of years ago and ran into numerous two-handed rods. I understand that you can mend line more effectively and cover more water than with conventional tackle, but when my brother was fishing a run on this small river some guy on the other side waded in behind him and ended up swinging his fly just a couple of feet from where my brother was standing, and into virtually the same water he was covering. I saw this a number of times on this two-day trip, and really could not understand what the hell these guys were doing. I concluded, perhaps mistakenly, that these two-handed rodders were new to the sport of flyfishing, as they didn’t seem to understand the error of their ways. I have been dirtbagged plenty in twenty years of steelheading, but getting dirtbagged by a flyfisherman was relatively new to me until I started running into some of these double-handers. Have any of you run into similar experiences with two-handed rodders? -Charlie Miller

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Folks – Was fishing a small river in Washington a couple of years ago and ran into numerous two-handed rods. I understand that you can mend line more effectively and cover more water than with conventional tackle, but when my brother was fishing a run on this small river some guy on the other side waded in behind him and ended up swinging his fly just a couple of feet from where my brother was standing, and into virtually the same water he was covering. I saw this a number of times on this two-day trip, and really could not understand what the hell these guys were doing. I concluded, perhaps mistakenly, that these two-handed rodders were new to the sport of flyfishing,

Very well established style of fly-fishing called Spey fishing, originally developed on the river Spey in Scotland. Two handed rods of great length (14-16′) which are popular on big rivers such the Thompson in B.C. as they didn’t seem to understand the error of their ways.

Good heavens!!!!!! such manners from a fly fisherman, will wonders never cease.  I have been dirtbagged plenty in twenty years of steelheading, but getting dirtbagged by a flyfisherman was relatively new to me until I started running into some of these double-handers. Have any of you run into similar experiences with two-handed rodders?

It just goes to show that such behaviour is not alien to the haughty-taughty fly fishing community. I love fly-fishing but there is nothing worse than the elitist attitude I come across among some fly fisherman.

Response:

…  I love fly-fishing but there is nothing worse than the elitist attitude I come across among some fly fisherman.

NOTHING worse ? Cheap scotch, cancelling Cheers, the designated hitter rule, novels by Robert J. Waller ? NOTHING worse ? Awww c’mon. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1

Response:

…  I love fly-fishing but there is nothing worse than the elitist attitude I come across among some fly fisherman. NOTHING worse ? Cheap scotch, cancelling Cheers, the designated hitter rule, novels by Robert J. Waller ? NOTHING worse ? Awww c’mon. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1

    bad salmon, regular season baseball games, the nba, soccer without women (either before, during, or after), cigarettes, chiggers, driving to work, district attorneys, the morning after, the afternoon before…surely there’s more? wayno

Response:

[snipped] I agree with most of those bullets, Mike except… the night before the morning after

Actually, I rather enjoy that part ;^) the Broncos

LOL! Oh, how the mighty have fallen ;^) /daytripper (With the undefeated Patsies)

Response:

Daytripper wrote : [snipped] I agree with most of those bullets, Mike except… the night before the morning after Actually, I rather enjoy that part ;^) the Broncos LOL! Oh, how the mighty have fallen ;^) /daytripper (With the undefeated Patsies)

  Oh yeah!  Well, while you spend Sunday with your nose glued to the tube, I’m going fishing. (Damn Broncos)

Response:

The memory of Tripper’s sneakers.  It will stay with me for a long, long time.

Yeah – but they weren’t a problem on the river (though only because I don’t wear them on the river ;^) /daytripper (careful – or I’ll dig ‘em up and mail ‘em to ya!)

Response:

   bad salmon, regular season baseball games, the nba, soccer without women (either before, during, or after), cigarettes, chiggers, driving to work, district attorneys, the morning after, the afternoon before…surely there’s more?

Postseason baseball games, soccer even with women, menthol cigarettes, sand fleas, parking at school, the night before the morning after, the City and County of Denver, being on the receiving end of an iron-wrist takedown, Ford trucks, three-two beer, jello shots, the Broncos, minor but persistent cases of the flu, not being able to fish for a few weeks, my fiancee being on the other side of the freakin’ Pacific Ocean… Like an instructor of mine once said: "sometimes, it just sucks to be you." I have to settle for being young, healthy, and solvent and seeing the sunset over the Rockies as I drink beer in the backyard every evening. The next line is true. The last line is false.

Response:

 too much coke… not enough rum     and to think; back in the early eighties, it was just the other way around. wayno

Response:

Day Tripper: <<These are definately worse but seldom a problem on the river. True – but you left out jet skis – which often are… /daytripper The memory of Tripper’s sneakers.  It will stay with me for a long, long time. Dave L.

Response:

True – but you left out jet skis – which often are…

Aren’t those what PETA uses to harass fishermen (might as well drag their sorry asses in this<g)… — Charlie…

Response:

wayno: <<district attorneys, ROFL.   BTW, counselor, when the hell are you gonna be at this Smoky thing?  Last I heard you were going to be there Sat – Tues., but I have heard tell you will be there until Thurs.  What’s up? Louie, who has wanted to do Hazel for sooooooo long!

Response:

 Aww hell you’re right Ken, there ARE things worse than that; warm beer, Japanese shitbox cars on lowered suspensions with big boom box stereos,  the Americanization of our beloved hockey by Bettman (the commisioner) These are definately worse but seldom a problem on the river. True – but you left out jet skis – which often are… /daytripper

  Last Saturday I was on the Harrison river in my 18′Hewescraft. boats were everywhere and travelling up and down the river chasing the sockeye, and pink salmon. A disquieting noise began to emerge from down river that grew louder and louder. All of a sudden we see a long line of jet skis coming up the river like a pack of jungle dogs. I counted  29 jetskis all in a row like some gang of  Hawgs riders looking for anyone to defy them. An amazing site. If you think jet skis are bad now, just wait. It will only get worse as they drive all other boaters of the water. Stevo the future-fearer

Response:

 Aww hell you’re right Ken, there ARE things worse than that; warm beer, Japanese shitbox cars on lowered suspensions with big boom box stereos,  the Americanization of our beloved hockey by Bettman (the commisioner) These are definately worse but seldom a problem on the river.

True – but you left out jet skis – which often are… /daytripper

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     bad salmon, regular season baseball games, the nba, soccer without women (either before, during, or after), cigarettes, chiggers, driving to work, district attorneys, the morning after, the afternoon before…surely there’s more? Ill mannered dogs, cell phones in cars, collection agencies, interruptions at dinner (or any other meal), major American brewers, cats, black flies, internal combustion engines, canned soup, Wonder "Bread" (the real wonder is that they get away with calling it bread), insurance sales people, insurance actuaries, insurance companies, muggers, buggers, huggers, Barney, Paul Hogan, Rush Limbaugh, Bill Clinton, the various Georges and other Bushes, what’s his name-the dipshit New York DJ just had his own movie last year, Ryan

Yikes, I’ve really started something here, so I guess I’ll continue; Revenue Canada, photoradar, gridlock, poachers, the Dallas Stars, Toronto, drive-by shootings, river mechanics, too much coke… not enough rum,  blown-out rivers, outboards that won’t start, commercial fisherman, Fisheries and Oceans Canada

Response:

…  I love fly-fishing but there is nothing worse than the elitist attitude I come across among some fly fisherman. NOTHING worse ? Cheap scotch, cancelling Cheers, the designated hitter rule, novels by Robert J. Waller ? NOTHING worse ? Awww c’mon.

  Aww hell you’re right Ken, there ARE things worse than that; warm beer, Japanese shitbox cars on lowered suspensions with big boom box stereos,  the Americanization of our beloved hockey by Bettman (the commisioner) These are definately worse but seldom a problem on the river. Cheers (the salutation, not the series) Stevo the hockey starved

Response:

    bad salmon, regular season baseball games, the nba, soccer without women (either before, during, or after), cigarettes, chiggers, driving to work, district attorneys, the morning after, the afternoon before…surely there’s more?

Ill mannered dogs, cell phones in cars, collection agencies, interruptions at dinner (or any other meal), major American brewers, cats, black flies, internal combustion engines, canned soup, Wonder "Bread" (the real wonder is that they get away with calling it bread), insurance sales people, insurance actuaries, insurance companies, muggers, buggers, huggers, Barney, Paul Hogan, Rush Limbaugh, Bill Clinton, the various Georges and other Bushes, what’s his name-the dipshit New York DJ just had his own movie last year, Ryan

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all you other outdoorsy women adventurers: Women’s Wire is currently featuring a section called "New You". On it you can check out 20 great getaways for the following activities (these places are for beginners also – you don’t have to be a pro): fly-fishing,  backpacking, boardsailing, bouldering, canoeing, hiking, mountain biking, road biking, rock climbing, scuba diving and sea kayaking If you are interested, check it out: http://www.women.com/body/newyou/

Response:

Hey all you other outdoorsy women adventurers: Women’s Wire is currently featuring a section called "New You". On it you can check out 20 great getaways for the following activities (these places are for beginners also – you don’t have to be a pro): fly-fishing,  backpacking, boardsailing, bouldering, canoeing, hiking, mountain biking, road biking, rock climbing, scuba diving and sea kayaking If you are interested, check it out: http://www.women.com/body/newyou/

Response:

Question:

How far are you traveling to fish thses rivers? Don’t expect springs or sockeye anymore though you can get springs in the Vedder. The Vedder has 10’s of thousands of fish this time of year; and just as many anglers. Don’t bother unless you go on a week day. Don’t bother if a typical BC monsoon session is on as it blows out to thick clay banks fairly quickly. For coho use small streamers; a local pattern called the Rolled Muddler is the current fav. Also the Coho blue (tinsel body, green calf or BT with dark blue over) go small sizes 8 to 10 3xl for the most part. Egg patterns and egg sucking leeches work for fish that have been in the river a while. Chum take anything hot orange or pink dead drifted across their noses. The Harrison is beautiful. You should have a boat but it can be fished from shore. Springs are stickly closed as the run is in serious decline. Lots of room on this river. Has excellent cutthroat fishing but hasn’t been fishing well due to high water (wet fall) needs dry spell to hold fish. Nearby Chehalis River is where Harrison fish are bound. Don’t bother with the Stave very short river headed by a dam. Some sporadic trout and coho. Loads of spawning chum; leave them alone.

Response:

Help!  I’d like to do some fishing soon on the Vedder or Harrison or Stave Rivers.  Any info would be appreciated.  I like coho or chums (I’m into catch & release anyway) or sockeye or springs.  Please email me at to see the responses.  Thanks!  :-) K Lawson

Response:

Help!  I’d like to do some fishing soon on the Vedder or Harrison or Stave Rivers.  Any info would be appreciated.  I like coho or chums (I’m into catch & release anyway) or sockeye or springs.  Please email me at to see the responses.  Thanks!  :-) K Lawson

Vedder – very crowded. Take your own rock and don’t expect to fly fish, shoulder to shoulder bait fishing. Can be busier on a weekday. Harrison – fished it 2 weeks ago, caught 0, but saw some coho. Stave – no report. The salmon are just starting to show. Next few weeks will improve. B.

Response:

Question:

Anybody been there this week or last?  What are conditions and what is happening? Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Response:

Anybody been there this week or last?  What are conditions and what is happening? Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Hi Michael, According to a friend who traveled through the area, the fishing in south east Idaho has been great.  Check with the Stonefly Angler in Boise at 208-338-1700.  They should be able to give you up to the minute info. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Question:

After many years of using FF equipment, I thought that I understood the meaning of value but with prices today being what they are, I’m not sure anymore. I have fished with bamboo and glass and of course now the ubiquitous graphite! I have always held that each man has the duty to select and own the very best equipment he can afford, but somewhere along the line of reason, the meaning of the word value has lost it’s punch. I know that perhaps, one’s ability to feel good about their equipment is an important issue to some and there is of course the snob appeal of ownership that somehow owning the most expensive equipment somehow also creates a better fisherman. Sadly, this is of course not true and most of us who ply the water in search of our outdoor pleasure has found the the type of who I speak. Conversely I seem to run into many more fishermen who are satisfied to use off the shelf equipment as long as it does the job. Now I have not made these comments as a discourse on the merits of one type of person versus the other, but rather to put some meaning into how a person can select the very best in value from the present tremendous spectrum of available graphite rods. I know that there is a rating system for the graphite used in a rod, but the explaination of this tidbit seems to be lost in the hype of fit and finish and word paintings of the fish one can expect to catch. Of course fit and finish should be taken into consideration, but it also must have some limitation brought on by value! I guess the point I am leading to is how can you select a piece of equipment and be satisfied with the relationship between value and quality. I’m not looking for any My granddaddy use to say that the value of anything was more a product of what you thought something was worth than anything else. I suspect that this comes as close to being right as anything. Of course he was living in the late 1800s and we all know about the days when the value of a dollar was a good deal more than it is today. If you consider the value spread between a rod costing $79.00 vs one which cost $1,100.00, somewhere in between, there has to be a value where cost versus quality meet. At what point on the curve does cost outsrip value and value begin to take a beating? I’d be interested in hearing from anyone who would care to join in on this topic. I know that there are more fishermen out there using the under $100.00 rod and reel combinations than those who sport the $500.00 tickets! Your thoughts? —  

Question:

I use to lick my fingers to help with dubbing, control maribou, etc until I realized that I did not know where those critters/materials had been nor what they had been dipped in. I now use a sponge sitting in a soup dish filled with water to help control the maribou. My tongue has returned to its natural color. I have found a great dubbing wax and technique. Al Beatty sells the wax and provides instructions for the slickest way to apply dubbing I’ve found in the past 25 years of tying. Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

Response:

Sorry–I missed the earlier thread on the Blitzen in Oregon.  What’s it like when it opens in spring?   Also… Stroking back marabou feathers the other night, I was licking my fingers and savoring the delightful petro-chemical taste of the dye when it occurred to me that I might be poisoning myself.  Anybody thought about this? D.

Response:

Sorry–I missed the earlier thread on the Blitzen in Oregon.  What’s it like when it opens in spring? Also… Stroking back marabou feathers the other night, I was licking my fingers and savoring the delightful petro-chemical taste of the dye when it occurred to me that I might be poisoning myself.  Anybody thought about this? D.

If you regularly eat hot dogs, don’t worry about it. You’ve got bigger problems. Sorry, couldn’t resist it. Lolo Mt.

Response:

Question:

Hi Sandy, I have a bunch of EVA ZOTE closed cell foam I bought from a dealer at the Fly Tackle Dealer Show a couple of years ago. I don’t avertize it in my catalog but I’ve got it if you need some. Give me a holler at 585-0745. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

I have found some good foam for bugs by searching the boxes we regularly receive here at work.  Alot of the computer companies use good quality closed cell foam for shipping.  Soft and floats well. I’ve accumulated more than I’ll use in a very long time. It’s kind of like finding road kill foam. Seek and ye shall find. You can also find adhesivfoam in Hardware Stores (used to stop drafts)-

Fishfinder

Response:

I want some advice on different glues to use on foam body bugs.  I have tried head cement and it seems to work somewhat, but doesn’t bond the hook to the foam.

The strongest glue for anything will always be epoxy. Model airplane shops sell *thin* 5 minute epoxy that works well for fly tying. 20-minute epoxy will be more flexible and stronger yet, however. Super glue is handy, also sold at model airplane shops, along with ‘instant’ hardening catalyst. I make a lot of foam flies. I use cheap, open-cell polyurethane foam for soft-bodied nymphs and streamers, and EVA (ethyl-vinyl-acetate) closed-cell foam for grass hopper bodies, etc. Big, soft foam streamers are interesting because fish don’t spit them out. They bite down and say ‘yes, this is what I thought.’ Where do you get closed-cell EVA foam? I dunno, for sure. John Betts used to sell under an ‘Evazote’ trade name, but he never had colors. I get it from a wholesaler. But most folks can’t do that. I don’t use foam strips, I cut out a hopper body, wrap it lightly with thread to segment it, and then tie it on *loosely* with thread, and then use super glue. One last note: Not all closed-cell foam is worth anything. Some is so dense it hardly floats. You need to find *lightweight* foam to make unsinkable dry flies. Most fly shops sell strands of ’round-in-cross-section’ closed-cell foam (made by ??) that looks really handy. But the damn stuff is so heavy it’s more like rubber, and hardly floats.

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Skip Summer) writes: Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, but no white water.  I have heard of a Poke-Boat(sp).  I do not monitor this forum, so E-Mail would be appreciated.  Thanks. Skip Summer I’ve used my Walden Paddler to salt water fly fish from.  Not bad stablity but you lose some distance in your cast being so close to the water (at least I, a neophyte fly-fisherman do).  I’m just worried about what’ll happen if and when I hook into a legal stripped bass (36 inches) or a big bluefish. SRL

One of the most popular boats used by local trout fishermen (in         N. Atlanta) is the "Gheenoe". The name is stranger than the boat,   which can best be described as a flat bottom canoe. I have a 12ft               version of this square sterned boat and I can tell you it is amazing stable. I can stand with both feet toes against the gunnel and not flip it. (I won’t mention what led me to this discovery). The boat is made in Winder, Georgia. It is made of fiberglass and is very well built.     I wouldn’t hesitate to fly fish from it, though the draft is rather shallow (it must be designed for river/shoal fishing) and a large boat wake might make for some exciting times. thom moorer the views expressed above are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.

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: : (Skip Summer) writes: : Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, I have a 12 1/2 foot Avon inflatable which I use on local lakes and also use down in the Gulf.  I don’t worry about boat wakes on the local lakes, and I haven’t had any problems in the Gulf.  Of course, I only go out on decent days.  However, those 60 footers can throwquite a wake.  The boat is incredibly stable and is easy to store.  Inflatables are tough to row, but I have a 9.9 outboard on mine.  If looking for an inflatable, don’t try the cheapies- it ain’t worth your life.  If anyone out there is interested in talking about inflatables for fishing either post to this thread or E-mail me. Pete

Response:

Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, but no white water.  I have heard of a Poke-Boat(sp).  I do not monitor this forum, so E-Mail would be appreciated.  Thanks. Skip Summer

Response:

Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, but no white water.  I have heard of a Poke-Boat(sp).  I do not monitor this forum, so E-Mail would be appreciated.  Thanks. Skip Summer I fly fish out of my touring kayak – works good, though I have to cast

directly where my bow is pointing. I think probably the best boat for the purpose would be a nice canoe, light weight, easy to paddle any distance, and stable enough to cast any direction without loss of stability. Rent or borrow one of the nice kevlar canoes and try it out, I think you’ll like it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

(Skip Summer) writes: Any ideas on a STABLE boat I can fly fish out of.  I fish moving water, but no white water.  I have heard of a Poke-Boat(sp).  I do not monitor this forum, so E-Mail would be appreciated.  Thanks. Skip Summer

I’ve used my Walden Paddler to salt water fly fish from.  Not bad stablity but you lose some distance in your cast being so close to the water (at least I, a neophyte fly-fisherman do).  I’m just worried about what’ll happen if and when I hook into a legal stripped bass (36 inches) or a big bluefish. SRL Stephen R. Lasky, Ph.D.       Brown University/Roger Williams Medical Center A man said to the Universe: "Sir, I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."       — Stephen Crane

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