Question:

In today’s Oregonian there was an article about a guy fishing the Rogue River in southern Oregon, landing a 71 lb – 8 oz. Chinook on a fly this past Monday. The report said he was using 7 lb. tippet, which would make this fish a world record for that line class. When confirmed, it would also be the largest Chinook caught on a fly. The fly used was described as having; "chartreuse hackle and some rainbow mylar on a #8 hook. The fly was tied by the angler. The report didn’t say how long it took him to land it, but I would imagine it took awhile!

Response:

In today’s Oregonian there was an article about a guy fishing the Rogue River in southern Oregon, landing a 71 lb – 8 oz. Chinook on a fly this past Monday. The report said he was using 7 lb. tippet, which would make this fish a world record for that line class. When confirmed, it would also be the largest Chinook caught on a fly. The fly used was described as having; "chartreuse hackle and some rainbow mylar on a #8 hook. The fly was tied by the angler. The report didn’t say how long it took him to land it, but I would imagine it took awhile!

Bill Kiene sent me a photo of that fish. I’ll post it on ABPF in a few minutes.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In today’s Oregonian there was an article about a guy fishing the Rogue River in southern Oregon, landing a 71 lb – 8 oz. Chinook on a fly this past Monday. The report said he was using 7 lb. tippet, which would make this fish a world record for that line class. When confirmed, it would also be the largest Chinook caught on a fly. The fly used was described as having; "chartreuse hackle and some rainbow mylar on a #8 hook. The fly was tied by the angler. The report didn’t say how long it took him to land it, but I would imagine it took awhile! Bill Kiene sent me a photo of that fish. I’ll post it on ABPF in a few minutes.

Whoa. /daytripper (That there’s a whole lot of big damned salmon, sho nuff.)

Response:

Steve, You need to come to Sacto soon (before it gets to darn cold) so I can take you boating down in the Delta for stripers. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In today’s Oregonian there was an article about a guy fishing the Rogue River in southern Oregon, landing a 71 lb – 8 oz. Chinook on a fly this past Monday. The report said he was using 7 lb. tippet, which would make this fish a world record for that line class. When confirmed, it would also be the largest Chinook caught on a fly. The fly used was described as having; "chartreuse hackle and some rainbow mylar on a #8 hook. The fly was tied by the angler. The report didn’t say how long it took him to land it, but I would imagine it took awhile! Bill Kiene sent me a photo of that fish. I’ll post it on ABPF in a few minutes.

Response:

A man could feed a family of four for a week with that big sumbitch.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

Question:

Craig, My club does have two different awards at the end of the year – one for the most weight and one for the highest number of fish.  Each participant receives 1 bonus pound per day for participation in the tournament.  Occasionally, different individuals will win the two awards but one person wins both the majority of the time.  We also have a different award for the largest single fish during the year. This system seems to work fine for us.  The winners are usually determined at the last tournament of the year but we occasionally have someone run away with the competition.   Lamar Middleton Winter Haven, FL http://www.LMbassguideFL.com

Response:

I have been reading the Bass Club Point scoring Advice string with interest over hear in England. Why do you not have two competitions. One for the largest fish caught. One for the most fish caught. This would give recognition for the skill of catching prize fish and for consistency and skill at catch the most amount of fish regularly. — Have a great day. Go fly fishing! <  <  <  < <  < <

  <   <   <  <  <  < Craig Moore The English Fly Fishing Shop www.flyfishing-flies.com

Response:

Question:

  You could pose the question at fishnet.com.au in the flyfish chatbd,   perhaps someone there has a little info.   If you have info from the locals such as a beach location just suck it   and see … thats half the fun!!  Grab an 8-10 wt and have at it!   Steve

Response:

Thanks Steve, have posted there. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   You could pose the question at fishnet.com.au in the flyfish chatbd,   perhaps someone there has a little info.   If you have info from the locals such as a beach location just suck it   and see … thats half the fun!!  Grab an 8-10 wt and have at it!   Steve

Response:

Last weeks episode: Fishzilla bites back.

Capital report, chap.  Top descriptions. Mu

Response:

  Sorry Norfolk is way out of my stomping grounds, its closer to you than   me.  There will be fish, beach, rock or estuary is the question. Best   bet would be the locals, I’d start with the people organising the event.     Half your luck on the junket. Steve

Response:

Thanks Steve, have lots of fishing info from the locals but not much on fly opportunity. As I’m relatively a novice in the salt myself I was hoping an Aussie may know. Thanks anyways. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Sorry Norfolk is way out of my stomping grounds, its closer to you than   me.  There will be fish, beach, rock or estuary is the question. Best   bet would be the locals, I’d start with the people organising the event.   Half your luck on the junket. Steve

Response:

Nice trip report Steve. I have been invited to be a Guest Artist at the Norfolk Island Country musical festival in May 2002 (Yep, I sing a bit as well www.clarkreid.cjb.net) and have six days on the beautiful island and only need perform 2  30 minute sets. This made me wonder what the possible saltwater flyfishing possibilities are there. Do you have any idea? Or could you point me somewhere I might find out? Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On occasion, I just don’t feel like fishing. This is particularly so when it seems I would be better off meeting the next deadline early – then fishing. Bitter experience has shown me the truth of that adage "the amount of work required to complete a task expands to fill the amount of time you have to complete it." I need to constantly remind myself:  Fish now, work later (and better usually).  It didn’t work this week … so I had some time on my hands. Last weeks episode: Fishzilla bites back. "A long time ago in a land far, far away" Westernport bay was formed by islands French and Phillip (sounds like an English comedic pairing ) not fitting into the mainland.  A shallow bay covered in seagrass and reefs where eons of strong tidal currents have cut deep channels through the mud. It opens on to the horrors of Bass strait but mercifully is protected from the worst of the strait’s excesses by Philip Island. (PI is famous for the 500cc motorcycle grand prix, and the ‘Penguin Parade’ – I always thought a parade implied some sort of organisation and consent on the part of the paraders, but I am yet to see the penguins’ views on the subject aired anywhere … ) Phillip Island is is rocky island (volcanic rock mainly from what I can see) with steep cliffs, headlands and the occasional sandy beach, and within a couple of hours drive of Melbourne. The beauty of an island is that there is a lee to be found no matter what the weather direction.  We were going to need this becuase the forecast was basically for foul weather worsening.  The weather rarely keeps us from the salt and we’ve always done pretty well when the weather has been inclement, always catching a few fish for our efforts. We arrived at the end of the road and beginning of the walk to a cloudy day, with a slight ripple and no breeze to speak of, not so foul afterall. Looking around the meniscus of the bay as it curved from right to left, all sorts of interesting looking structure beckoned, neither of us had been here before, new water is often lots of fun. About half way through the walk waders slung around my neck were filling up and billowing with the following _breeze_ – another use for waders, -spinnakers.  Along soft sand, up and over dune slips and head high boulders, finally we rounded the point and found two other fisherman already setup.  A couple of elderly nordic gentleman one of whom we’d met before, were ensconced in a lovely little cove that warrants a look when we pass by next time.  Pleasantries exchanged, we continued on around several more promontories finally coming to the end of the way. Steep cliffs and 100 foot drops got in the way as only they can – very, very immoveably. A feature of headlands and cliffs is their appeal to sea birds , in this case the soft ground above the rocky cliffs and shoreline was riddled with shearwater (muttonbird) nests, interspersed with flowering pigface and other almost flourescent purple blloming plants. (Floracation isn’t my long suite … faunacation however …). Not a bird to be seen apart from the odd carcass – and little evidence of their arrival though some nests had been recently cleared out. There was a smell though, faint but pungent, I suspect it would be a most unpleasant place in the heat of summer with all the birds in residence. Traipsing through the rookery on the plateau would be quite dangerous with the risk of collapsing nests and harming ourselves or the nests’ residents quite high (if they were home). We did scout around a little for any sign of a walking trail back down and one area looked quite promising.  It was a section of flattened vegetation that turned out to be a 8 feet or so wide.  From a distance it looked for all the world like a track, closer inspection however showed it to be just the 60 feet long.  What we were looking at was the shearwaters’ airstrip,  at one end was a 100ft drop into nothing but the updrafts associated with such places, and at the other the rookery. With the rookery immediatelty above and behind our platform, access will be nearly impossible in summer when the rookery is populated – we’ll not be responsible for trampling chicks, collapsing nests etc. not to mention the possibility of attack from the birds protecting their nests or the tiger snakes that go bite in beak with mutton bird rookeries.  I would dearly love to see them using that landing strip though … Fishing? Oh yes there was fishing.  There were fish to.  Initially, the incoming tide produced a salmon or two, and a horde of wrasse from the kelp below our platform.  The little (and not so little) buggers have spikes in their dorsal fin, usually I don’t have a problem but one fish, a sizeable one of the blue lipped variety, punctured me five times. We were perched on boulders above a submerged ledge about 8-10 feet down. The ledge was covered in weed and kelp and had a healthy population of these wrasse and probably other fishes which we didn’t see or catch. The ledge itself fell away into perhaps another 20 feet of water with a sandy bottom, a strip which I suppose was about 60 feet wide and continued on around the promontory to the right and petered at a point on the left. A nice little location for all sorts of fishes. The fish had gone quiet as the tide fell, and with the wind now reaching gale levels from our left (thank goodness) we were having difficulty keeping contact with our flies.  Between the wind and the wash a typical 60 foot cast was looped out to about 90 feet of line. Then it rained. We huddled in the lee of a boulder till the scudding rain passed, and when the sun came out picked up our rods with renewed vigour. A weak sun to be sure but enough to burn the shnozz as I found out later. As well as drying things off we could see into the water better and the additional light seemed to turn the fish on as well. Tim’s first cast saw his wobbler fly  sliced off by a sizeable ‘couta.  The fish arrowed up from the depths to take the fly just over the ledge.  Well hooked, it continued its mad rush to the surface where the razor sharp teeth did a job on the tippett.  In a flash of silver and spray it was gone. Heavy tippet all round, 60lb mono. Through a gap in the ledge we saw dark shapes cruising down below the ledge level and occasionally one above it.  These fish in the upper column were striped though, and not ‘couta, probably fishzilla.  To see one of these things peel away from the shadows, and swim over to ( in no particular rush – the top of the food chain is rarely hurried) and swallow your fly is heart stopping.  Initially the shape just looks like another trick of the light produced by the ripple, then as it puts more distance between itself and the comouflage background, your brain starts to put together the outline. (If you’ve ever seen aerial footage of a shark over a sandy bottom, you’ll be able to get the picture … re-reading this I just had another image spring to mind … When the brain decides that the shape is heading for your fly, is when the adrenalin kicks in.  Then you lift, feel weight and know your luck is in.  It is very dissappointing to have the leader part in such circumstances.  A tad presumptuous on the luck part … that’s two of these fish that have done me, perhaps third time lucky. (mental note: check the WHOLE leader when changing tippett … wrassen frassen fisshen..) We saw several of the ‘couta and fishzilla but didn’t manage to get a hookup till one ‘couta chased Tim’s chartreuse clouser to his feet. Tim thought he ran out of water, I thought it was a rejection of the colour as these fish are fast and could overtake the fastest retrieve of any fisherman if they want to.  A synthetic based natural looking clouser went onto the tippett and resulted in an almost immediate hook-up.  At last! A sizeable ‘couta paraded around the sandy bottom, then tried to snag the line in the kelp … smooth drag, powerful fish, and a reasonable tippet what more can you ask for.  Everything held up and an obliging wave with impeccable timing bought the fish onto a ledge for happy snaps and release. As it turns out, we were lucky to get him up, even though couta aren’t renowned for their stamina, they do have a turn of speed and a fine set of choppers … the tippett, 60lb mono was worn through to about 1/3 its normal diameter in places. Silly grins all round.  Leaving not long after, not unusually, the trek out seemed about half as long as the one in, though yours truely did do a full uphill face plant into the soft turf (and thankfully, not a bird turd). The earth smelt good, the laugh felt good. We discussed the fishzilla problem – we both have copped a fair bit of derision seemingly knowledgeable anglers when we talk about fishzilla (we think its a southern species of barracuda).  These big fish have been written about before as inhabiting southern waters, but either they have passed from memory or have been in decline.  Certainly if you are not rigged for them you will be sliced off, and in the areas the fish frequent, anglers wouldn’t normally be gearing up for them with bite tippets. They

… read more »

Response:

On occasion, I just don’t feel like fishing. This is particularly so when it seems I would be better off meeting the next deadline early – then fishing. Bitter experience has shown me the truth of that adage "the amount of work required to complete a task expands to fill the amount of time you have to complete it." I need to constantly remind myself:  Fish now, work later (and better usually).  It didn’t work this week … so I had some time on my hands. Last weeks episode: Fishzilla bites back. "A long time ago in a land far, far away" Westernport bay was formed by islands French and Phillip (sounds like an English comedic pairing ) not fitting into the mainland.  A shallow bay covered in seagrass and reefs where eons of strong tidal currents have cut deep channels through the mud. It opens on to the horrors of Bass strait but mercifully is protected from the worst of the strait’s excesses by Philip Island. (PI is famous for the 500cc motorcycle grand prix, and the ‘Penguin Parade’ – I always thought a parade implied some sort of organisation and consent on the part of the paraders, but I am yet to see the penguins’ views on the subject aired anywhere … ) Phillip Island is is rocky island (volcanic rock mainly from what I can see) with steep cliffs, headlands and the occasional sandy beach, and within a couple of hours drive of Melbourne. The beauty of an island is that there is a lee to be found no matter what the weather direction.  We were going to need this becuase the forecast was basically for foul weather worsening.  The weather rarely keeps us from the salt and we’ve always done pretty well when the weather has been inclement, always catching a few fish for our efforts.   We arrived at the end of the road and beginning of the walk to a cloudy day, with a slight ripple and no breeze to speak of, not so foul afterall. Looking around the meniscus of the bay as it curved from right to left, all sorts of interesting looking structure beckoned, neither of us had been here before, new water is often lots of fun. About half way through the walk waders slung around my neck were filling up and billowing with the following _breeze_ – another use for waders, -spinnakers.  Along soft sand, up and over dune slips and head high boulders, finally we rounded the point and found two other fisherman already setup.  A couple of elderly nordic gentleman one of whom we’d met before, were ensconced in a lovely little cove that warrants a look when we pass by next time.  Pleasantries exchanged, we continued on around several more promontories finally coming to the end of the way.   Steep cliffs and 100 foot drops got in the way as only they can – very, very immoveably. A feature of headlands and cliffs is their appeal to sea birds , in this case the soft ground above the rocky cliffs and shoreline was riddled with shearwater (muttonbird) nests, interspersed with flowering pigface and other almost flourescent purple blloming plants. (Floracation isn’t my long suite … faunacation however …).   Not a bird to be seen apart from the odd carcass – and little evidence of their arrival though some nests had been recently cleared out. There was a smell though, faint but pungent, I suspect it would be a most unpleasant place in the heat of summer with all the birds in residence. Traipsing through the rookery on the plateau would be quite dangerous with the risk of collapsing nests and harming ourselves or the nests’ residents quite high (if they were home). We did scout around a little for any sign of a walking trail back down and one area looked quite promising.  It was a section of flattened vegetation that turned out to be a 8 feet or so wide.  From a distance it looked for all the world like a track, closer inspection however showed it to be just the 60 feet long.  What we were looking at was the shearwaters’ airstrip,  at one end was a 100ft drop into nothing but the updrafts associated with such places, and at the other the rookery. With the rookery immediatelty above and behind our platform, access will be nearly impossible in summer when the rookery is populated – we’ll not be responsible for trampling chicks, collapsing nests etc. not to mention the possibility of attack from the birds protecting their nests or the tiger snakes that go bite in beak with mutton bird rookeries.  I would dearly love to see them using that landing strip though … Fishing? Oh yes there was fishing.  There were fish to.  Initially, the incoming tide produced a salmon or two, and a horde of wrasse from the kelp below our platform.  The little (and not so little) buggers have spikes in their dorsal fin, usually I don’t have a problem but one fish, a sizeable one of the blue lipped variety, punctured me five times.   We were perched on boulders above a submerged ledge about 8-10 feet down.   The ledge was covered in weed and kelp and had a healthy population of these wrasse and probably other fishes which we didn’t see or catch. The ledge itself fell away into perhaps another 20 feet of water with a sandy bottom, a strip which I suppose was about 60 feet wide and continued on around the promontory to the right and petered at a point on the left. A nice little location for all sorts of fishes. The fish had gone quiet as the tide fell, and with the wind now reaching gale levels from our left (thank goodness) we were having difficulty keeping contact with our flies.  Between the wind and the wash a typical 60 foot cast was looped out to about 90 feet of line. Then it rained. We huddled in the lee of a boulder till the scudding rain passed, and when the sun came out picked up our rods with renewed vigour. A weak sun to be sure but enough to burn the shnozz as I found out later.   As well as drying things off we could see into the water better and the additional light seemed to turn the fish on as well. Tim’s first cast saw his wobbler fly  sliced off by a sizeable ‘couta.  The fish arrowed up from the depths to take the fly just over the ledge.  Well hooked, it continued its mad rush to the surface where the razor sharp teeth did a job on the tippett.  In a flash of silver and spray it was gone. Heavy tippet all round, 60lb mono. Through a gap in the ledge we saw dark shapes cruising down below the ledge level and occasionally one above it.  These fish in the upper column were striped though, and not ‘couta, probably fishzilla.  To see one of these things peel away from the shadows, and swim over to ( in no particular rush – the top of the food chain is rarely hurried) and swallow your fly is heart stopping.  Initially the shape just looks like another trick of the light produced by the ripple, then as it puts more distance between itself and the comouflage background, your brain starts to put together the outline. (If you’ve ever seen aerial footage of a shark over a sandy bottom, you’ll be able to get the picture … re-reading this I just had another image spring to mind …   When the brain decides that the shape is heading for your fly, is when the adrenalin kicks in.  Then you lift, feel weight and know your luck is in.  It is very dissappointing to have the leader part in such circumstances.  A tad presumptuous on the luck part … that’s two of these fish that have done me, perhaps third time lucky. (mental note: check the WHOLE leader when changing tippett … wrassen frassen fisshen..) We saw several of the ‘couta and fishzilla but didn’t manage to get a hookup till one ‘couta chased Tim’s chartreuse clouser to his feet. Tim thought he ran out of water, I thought it was a rejection of the colour as these fish are fast and could overtake the fastest retrieve of any fisherman if they want to.  A synthetic based natural looking clouser went onto the tippett and resulted in an almost immediate hook-up.  At last! A sizeable ‘couta paraded around the sandy bottom, then tried to snag the line in the kelp … smooth drag, powerful fish, and a reasonable tippet what more can you ask for.  Everything held up and an obliging wave with impeccable timing bought the fish onto a ledge for happy snaps and release. As it turns out, we were lucky to get him up, even though couta aren’t renowned for their stamina, they do have a turn of speed and a fine set of choppers … the tippett, 60lb mono was worn through to about 1/3 its normal diameter in places. Silly grins all round.  Leaving not long after, not unusually, the trek out seemed about half as long as the one in, though yours truely did do a full uphill face plant into the soft turf (and thankfully, not a bird turd). The earth smelt good, the laugh felt good.   We discussed the fishzilla problem – we both have copped a fair bit of derision seemingly knowledgeable anglers when we talk about fishzilla (we think its a southern species of barracuda).  These big fish have been written about before as inhabiting southern waters, but either they have passed from memory or have been in decline.  Certainly if you are not rigged for them you will be sliced off, and in the areas the fish frequent, anglers wouldn’t normally be gearing up for them with bite tippets.   They could be hooking up with them ok, but never get close enough to see them. The quest continues … Steve ‘couta – barracoutta – not to be confused with Barracuda.

Response:

Question:

Thanx Ari Dave

Response:

Thanks Ari, Joel Axelrad Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

Err, In case that didn’t come through clearly, I’m on the side of the USA.

I don’t think anybody was worried. TL and stay safe. — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been  poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley

Response:

Err, In case that didn’t come through clearly, I’m on the side of the USA. Ari – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A bit late but I’m just back from Mozambique and I just wanna give every body involved (and even those not) in the last weeks terrible disaster my sincere condolences. Hang in there, guys. It’ll all get sorted out. Ari Ari Bert                                    Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                         +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                         Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                   Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                            Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Response:

A bit late but I’m just back from Mozambique and I just wanna give every body involved (and even those not) in the last weeks terrible disaster my sincere condolences. Hang in there, guys. It’ll all get sorted out. Ari Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Response:

Question:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use

Not from the area, but I have a couple of ‘Rides’ I use for fly fishing and they are great boats. I live in Atlanta but have used them off Tybee Island and also around the Port St. Joe/Apalachiciola area and have had no problems with them at all. — Charlie…

Response:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use Not from the area, but I have a couple of ‘Rides’ I use for fly fishing and they are great boats. I live in Atlanta but have used them off Tybee Island and also around the Port St. Joe/Apalachiciola area and have had no problems with them at all. — Charlie…

I’ll have to go test one out and see if it’s really possible to stand up in it like the chap depicted in the ad on their web page. Scott

Response:

I’ll have to go test one out and see if it’s really possible to stand up in it like the chap depicted in the ad on their web page.

It is, but I’m not sure I could land a fish that way. <g — Charlie…

Response:

Cockroach Bay is a "good area."  Still relatively undisturbed.  Too shallow for many powerboats.  Rich in fish and birdlife. Also try the sandbar just north of the Cockroach Bay boat ramp and separating the outer mangrove shore from Tampa Bay.  I used to wedge a paddle into the sand and tie my canoe to it; then, walk/wade the bar, casting off the side that seemed likely to be most productive.  Got snook, trout, bonnethead shark, etc., there.  Very pleasant even when fish weren’t biting. Jeff Jeff Harper jeff#doplay.com

| Greetings All, | | I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers | in this area as to what ‘yak you use and what are some good areas. I’m | considering a Scupper Pro TW or a Wilderness Systems Ride.   I’m | thinking the Weedon Island area is a good place, and the flats area | between the Gandy and Skyway. | | Scott |

Response:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use and what are some good areas. I’m considering a Scupper Pro TW or a Wilderness Systems Ride.   I’m thinking the Weedon Island area is a good place, and the flats area between the Gandy and Skyway. Scott

Response:

Question:

<cruel gastronomic description filleted Hell of a thing to do to a guy at three in the afternoon with nothing edible is sight! But this is the kind of story we like to read.  While mostly a C&R fisherman (Egad, here it comes again!!) I do nevertheless keep enough to treat myself once in a while.  Your description of smoked ducks brings to mind my favorite preparation for trout.  We set them on the Weber, as far from a small pile of glowing coals as possible and leave them for about an hour and a half, all the while adding small amounts of soaked hickory chips to the fire; just enough to keep the smoke going strong.  Sinfully good!  But to top it off (and healthy be damned!) I like to slather on a bit of brie. As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat. Also……but no, it’ll have to wait for another time….I gotta go get something to eat!

Response:

Actually, last April we dined on a brace of Elk Steaks marinated for

(delicious feast snipped) Omigosh, Larry! If you can’t figure out anything worthwhile to do with your elk, let me know what Wolfgang can’t use and I’ll send you my UPS address! Hate to see it go to waist (sp intentional!). Drooling out loud, Rick

Response:

As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat.

While simultaneously drooling on my keyboard, I gotta ask: Not that it’s stopped me from slurping down raw oysters or eating my steaks rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about contamination of domestic meats; and we’ve all been cautioned about the wisdom of thoroughly cooking our food.   So this "wild meat" thread has me wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering. Joe F.

Response:

Joe- I’m sure the same concerns exist, especially because this meat isn’t irradiated to kill any potential diseases and like most hunters, the animals are field dressed, packaged well enough to pack out against the heat of one’s body on a frame and kept from thorough refrigeration for a day or more……then brought home in the bed of a truck or some such device. Same’s true for ducks, geese, pheasant, quail, etc….most hunters will bring em home and hang em for a couple of days prior to guttin’ and pluckin’ em…. helps to age the meat some and also makes em easier to dress out…. But with that said, I gotta ALSO say this….I’ve eaten wild game for some 35 years now, on at least 6 occassions a year (not counting the jerky and salame!!) and have NEVER gotten a case of gastrointestinal distention, much less any more disastrous effect from it, aside from gettin’ stuffed like a pig and not knowing when to say ENOUGH!!!  (BTW, Wild Pig is great too!!!) Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. Larry #:)#

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[pared] Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee….

Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) I’m dying here! Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…)

Response:

rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about

(contamination, etc) wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering.

Joe, Don’t know how accurate this info is (wouldn’t want anyone getting sick) but during one of the recent e. coli outbreaks, I was reading some "warning" info in the paper. Author seemed to think the problem with rare meat (red meat, not poultry, which has its own caveats) occurs primarily with ground meat as opposed to "cut" meat like steaks, roasts, etc. The advice was based on the idea that bacteria grow on the surface of the meat and are killed by heat, so the "cut" meat can be cooked rare as long as the outside was cooked well. Ground meat becomes a problem as you shape it into patties or whatever because what was once on the surface could be mixed into the interior and therefore you should cook to much greater degree of "doneness" to ensure you got the bugs. Your local ag extension office probably has a nutritionist that can put this to rest. If not, let me know and I’ll check–my brother-in-law is an extension agent and I’m sure has some info available. Anyway, the newspaper article makes sense on the surface, but I’d like to hear other opinions… Cheers, Rick

Response:

If it makes you all feel better, I caught a 12 inch smallmouth bass today. First cast too! Man are they tasty! ……Well, time for supper!

: [pared] : : Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of : the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all : a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have : access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at : the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. : Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) : I’m dying here! : Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! : /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…) — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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From a river or lake……? do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john

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<good analysis snipped I have thought about this issue long and hard for a long time.  Like Larry, I’ve eaten a lot of game over the years and have never suffered any ill effects from lightly cooked meat.  In fact, I eat venison or some sort of game bird about once a week. Ground meat is obviously more dangerous for the reasons mentioned, i.e. any surface contamination is thoroughly mixed into the center of the mass where the bacteria cannot be killed except by thorough cooking.  But I believe that the problem is exacerbated by the way commercially packaged meat is handled.  The game I eat is processed at home in very small masses.  A couple of birds at a time or a single deer.  Compare this with the beef you just bought at the grocery store.  This package of meat just went down the same line as some hundreds or thousands of pounds of meat processed in the same day.  Any bacterial contamination has all day to grow and multiply.  Add to this the fact that sanitation between days may be less than perfect and you have a situation in which the proliferation of E. choli, Salmonella or other bacteria is virtually assured.  Obviously, contamination can be minimized by scrupulously cleaning all work surfaces but we all know how easy it is for someone to get a little bit careless, especially some underpaid meat cutter bored to distraction by a mindless routine job. In short, it seems to me that, counterintuitively, game processed and packaged at home is likely to be safer than commercially packed meat because it isn’t dragged through the same slime as tons of other meat. Bon Apetit!

Response:

From a lake. There are no smallmouth bass in rivers around here. At 12 inches they have spawned many times!

: From a river or lake……? : do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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snip< Bon Apetit!

Thanks Rick, Larry, Dave, & Wolfgang.   My curiosity, if not my appetite, is satisfied. I think I’ll have some sushi tonight. Joe F. "I always eat my oysters fried. That way I know my oyster’s died."     ….Roy Blount, Jr.

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Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess.  But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

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I would give it up.  The best hopper imitation I have used, is the old trusty Letort Hopper.  I’ve caught lots of big, streamwise brown trout on that fly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess. But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

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My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair     try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair     if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

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My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)# I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

_______  Warren?  Good point.  Larry Madina also has the perfect suggestion but he didn’t say what area on an Elk is best.  Let’s look at the Wapiti or deer family of different animals. 1) There are many different ways to tie Deer Hair style Caddis patterns.  Many. 2) The hair on herbivores (from the ground, up) on the legs or shins, it is thinnest and smallest in diameter.  Also around the face and/or mask area. 3) The largest diameter hair is around the belly.  The belly is the boiler room and contains a lot of blood and needs to be kept warm because it also is the area that has the largest surface area on herbivores that must survive in freezing outdoor temperatures.  This hair is also the thickest and has large, hollow hairs.  Air inside these belly hairs is a dramatic insulator against cold.  The hair also contains a lot of underdubbing/fur/matting/etc. that is a ‘blanket’ against wind.  It is what keeps wind from getting THRU the hair and against the skin/hide.  It is an interesting study in nature’s engineering. The hollowness of Elk hair, when you spin certain patterns such as muddler heads, when you bear down with the tying thread is what makes it explode or open up.  This ‘kinking’ is nothing more then a way to make the hair do what you want it to do.  Shin hairs do not flair out like the hollower hairs around the belly of elk and/or deer. The hair on the back of herbivores is also thin in diameter and not as thick.  Why?  I cannot but venture a guess.  Its not necessary because the body heat inside happens to keep the roof dry, sort of speaking. This is also a good area or source for selecting Elk hair. 4)  When one is in a fly shop, you have to know what you’re looking at with each package which has but a small piece of and entire Elk inside it.  You need to know what is leg hair, what is belly hair, what is neck hair, what is facial hair, what is back hair, what is flank hair, etc. And so it goes. Elk Hair patterns seldom use large diameter Elk Hair.  I usually use the back and most often leg hair.  The Caddis wing only needs to flair just a little.  It is not necessary to fold it back after tying it in at the head/forward.  These are not hollow hairs and when Ginked, its enough to float a caddis that has no hollow Elk or Deer Hair.  I tie a great many of my Caddis Patterns with Mule Deer because I happen to like the black and coloration of Mule Deer above all things regarding ‘Caddis’. However; Elk Hair comes in colors and shadings other then blonde.   So when fly tiers are talking HOW TO tie any pattern, the industry at large should start stating WHAT part of an Elk/Deer they are using. This is vital information but somehow, everyone seems to not think its important.  I, on the other hand think it is vital, if anyone is to tie a fly that has ‘the proper signature’ of that offered by its author. To Larry Madina, who I think is an above average fly tier, I hope you can agree that this information is proper regarding flies tied with the hairs from herbivores.  That being more specific is indeed, rather important. Hope this helps Warren the cause of tying really great Caddis Patterns. Lets face it. Throughout most trout rivers and streams, its really "The Caddis" that is king. We can discuss it more over at the camp site some evening.  Hours between 1700 PDT and 2000 EST.   Gink Keeps It Up — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/chat   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" Fly Fishing’s Talking Camp Site  

Question:

Hi, Does anyone know of a good place to fly fish in North Carolina?  I haven’t been fishing since I move to the state and now have the itch again.  Any tips would be great. Thanks, Sam

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Hi, Does anyone know of a good place to fly fish in North Carolina?  I haven’t been fishing since I move to the state and now have the itch again.  Any tips would be great. Thanks, Sam

Sam, Contact: Bruce Harang, Great Southern Appalachial guide. Voice:704-236-1319 Fax: 704-236-1338 Joel Axelrad

Response:

Hi, Does anyone know of a good place to fly fish in North Carolina?  I haven’t been fishing since I move to the state and now have the itch again.  Any tips would be great. Thanks, Sam

Sam, What type of fishing are you planning? NC has trout in the mountains, bass, panfish, etc. in the piedmont and lowlands, and all types of saltwater species on the coast. I’d suggest finding a local fly shop and going from there. There are plenty of waters to fish and I’d hazard a guess that there are some close to you. Walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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Sam, Make sure you check out my website.  It has tons of info on there.  I think you can find a fishing hole or two or three.  Where are you located?

Hi, Does anyone know of a good place to fly fish in North Carolina?  I haven’t been fishing since I move to the state and now have the itch again.  Any tips would be great. Thanks, Sam — Flyfish NC                                                   Capt Gordon Churchill http://www.flyfish-nc.com                                                                  

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Question:

i have noticed some of the most attractive women are found at the pay lakes  i have been visiting does anyone else notice this?

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i have noticed some of the most attractive women are found at the pay lakes  i have been visiting does anyone else notice this?

I dunno.  I never notice the really good looking ones at the pay lakes until I’m into my second 12-pack.   *                                                               * *  ENTOMOLOGIST    ANTIQUE TACKLE COLLECTOR    ALL-AROUND NUT   *

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Ha Ha!          I got a good chuckle outta THIS one!  I happen to WORK at a "pay lake" and my sentiments would have to be along the same lines as Creek Chub’s comment! ::ahem:; except when my girlfriend is visitng (as she is looking on as I post this!!) Happy fishing!

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Wow, and I thought I was running out of topics to talk about during the "off season". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i have noticed some of the most attractive women are found at the pay lakes i have been visiting does anyone else notice this?

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JB,     You might like hanging out at some at some Trailer Parks too. I hear they have some mighty fine females there too!! Good Luck :~) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have noticed some of the most attractive women are found at the pay lakes  i have been visiting does anyone else notice this?

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i have noticed some of the most attractive women are found at the pay lakes  i have been visiting does anyone else notice this?

OK, I give up…….  what is a "pay" lake? Hans

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OK, I give up…….  what is a "pay" lake? Hans

Hans,  A pay lake is a stocked lake that you pay to fish at. Usually a set fee, but some charge by the fish or pound. Generally these are catfish and trout type stockings, but I have seen most all kinds being offered. I remember 1 guy at the Fishermans Dude Ranch in Des Plaines Il took all his kids fishing. He didn’t realize this was a by the pound, and these trout were starving. It cost him $65.00 to get out of there and this was 30 years ago. I went there because I wanted to see what it was like to catch trout on a fly. Illinois didn’t have many trout streams back in the 60’s. Used a barbless hook and made a big deal everytime they came off. Had the time of my life, at least for a teenager. Mark Brandt Are you a walleye Fanatic, Try The Walleye List at http://members.iquest.net/~mbrandt  where over 220 walleye anglers discuss walleye fishing via e-mail every day.

Response:

OK, I give up…….  what is a "pay" lake? Hans

A pay lake is a stocked lake or pond that you pay a fee to fish at. Usually these are stocked with either catfish or trout, altho I have seen where all species are available. You either pay one set fee for a limit of fish or as many as you want and you pay by the fish or weight. You have to watch it at these types tho. Back when I was a teenager I used to go to the Fishermans Dude Ranch in Des Plaines Il to fly fish for trout. I knew this was a pay by the pound place, but in the 60’s this was the only trout stream I had access too. I would use a barbless hook and play the fish until it came off. I would take home maybe 1 fish. One time I was there and this guy brings in all his kids. They supplied poles if you needed them. Well this guy walked out of there with $65 worth of trout, and this was 30 years ago. They watched you like a hawk, couldn’t throw any back. Seems like so long ago. Mark Are you a walleye fanatic. Try joining The Walleye List at http://members.iquest.net/~mbrandt where over 220 walleye anglers discusss walleye fishing via e-mail.

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NO

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I give up…….  what is a "pay" lake? Hans Hans,  A pay lake is a stocked lake that you pay to fish at. Usually a set fee, but some charge by the fish or pound. Generally these are catfish and trout type stockings, but I have seen most all kinds being offered. I remember 1 guy at the Fishermans Dude Ranch in Des Plaines Il took all his kids fishing. He didn’t realize this was a by the pound, and these trout were starving. It cost him $65.00 to get out of there and this was 30 years ago. I went there because I wanted to see what it was like to catch trout on a fly. Illinois didn’t have many trout streams back in the 60’s. Used a barbless hook and made a big deal everytime they came off. Had the time of my life, at least for a teenager. Mark Brandt Are you a walleye Fanatic, Try The Walleye List at http://members.iquest.net/~mbrandt  where over 220 walleye anglers discuss walleye fishing via e-mail every day.

Hey thanks for the memories – I used to take the kids to that place just off the tollway to get a fish ( trout) when we could not catch someting at Busse lake or others – had to mash down the hooks so they would lose them . The trout always tasted funny kind of like algae…But they were nice looking….. Former Chicagoan

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter.

You could also go up to Alaska, across and down through Russia, over to Japan and then on to the South Pacific.  It is a much longer journey, but no 2000 mile over water legs. (I wonder how far the jump to Palau would be, I’ve always wanted to go there…) Brian

Response:

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air.

My rounded off 2100 NM was only a paltry 11 NM off from your very accurate 2089!! well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine. cg

It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

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I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air. well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine.   cg First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

Response:

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

Response:

It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

Response:

OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

Response:

What did you assume that I would try it without any  preflight planning?? cg It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

Response:

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  

Surely you jest, Doug. Kidding aside, the special flight permit that you get for the overload condition and he temporary fuel tank installation requires you calculate in a 3 hour reserve on transoceanic flights. Things can happen while on such a long flight; the forecast winds can turn out different, you might have equipment problems that cause you to burn more fuel for less airspeed than you had planned, etc. I have had several a couple of occasions when I was glad for the extra fuel. Remember, there is only one time when you can have too much fuel: when you are on fire. Reinhard

Response:

It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!  

How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

Response:

I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

Response:

OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane. Rgds JD   …… I’d rather be flying ….. John Duncan M.C.N.E.  PPL(A)  J.P.  AOPA(Aust)#42745 EAA#548147 J & J Network Services Pty Ltd P.O. Box 109 Minto N.S.W. 2566 Australia

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My tongue was firmly in cheek.  I don’t fly VFR without at least 1 hour reserve. — Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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No idea about a KR2, but you might want to read Sport Aviation (past few issues) and look for the 2 part round the world story by the author and Burt Rutan, who flew their Long EZ’s around the world. Very informative (and nice pictures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane.

James, You are considering a monumental task here ol chap, this sought of feat requires a hell of a lot of homework and I would suggest you’re really stretching it in a KR-2. With a large amount of retro-fitting you could possibly carry out this adventure, however the stakes are extremely high! I would also endorse the above, ie read Jon Johannson’s book and while your doing that bare a thought for the planning both technically and enroute that goes into these voyages. You may also wish to contact the "Mick & Dick" of "Round the World Friendship Tour":- Sport Aviation Feb edition Pg 76. For a start, unless you’ve got heaps of "Bucks" behind you, just go build your A/C and enjoy flying it around the "States". Whilst I’ll admit, I don’t have an intermit knowledge of the KR-2 and its weight & balance etc, it is only small by any standards. Its payload excess does not go down well with the number crunching required when you consider such additions as fuel, extra redundancy systems req’d, and ESPECIALLY CONSIDER ENGINE RELIABLITY etc, etc. To say the least, 18 plus hours is a long time to spend in the close confines of a KR-2 cockpit, surrounded by custom built ferry tanks around your ears. I have two buddies that were involved in Ferry Flights across the Pacific in their younger days. One of them did get his feet wet mid Pacific (1200 Nm from nowhere & at night) when the nut on the Alternator pulley worked its way loose. Lucky for him he had spotted a fishing boat a couple of hours before and was able to back track and relocate it. All be it, he was now down to torch and compass. That was in a brand new production A/C as well. Glenn now does his long transcontinental flights the same way I do, the only way:-In style at 43,000 ft. James, whilst your challenge is a commendable one, the golden rule is to keep your feet dry. Best way to do that is travel the South Pacific the same way most of us do, In a 747, 767 etc, and don’t forget you can have the added advantage of sipping champagne or other adult beverages!! If you’re considering going on from HNL to other South Pacific destinations, then you have a hole heap more challenges in front of you. Regards Ray (Just my 2 cents worth) J.

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I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

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How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

The Aztec would burn considerably more than 8-10 GPH.  Probably closer to 25 GPH.  So we are talking about over 500 gallons.  The Aztec is a rather slow twin with a pair of 250 HP flat engines.  It is Pipers upscale Apache, just as the Beech Baron is the high power version of the Travelair. John

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What is the availability of av-gas in Russia. I hear that it’s non-existant. D.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil. If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

Reinhard is exactly right.  You notice in the original post that I did mention that it would take some fancy ferry tanks to get the fuel in! When my airplane flew across the Atlantic from Brazil to Cornwall, they added a special fancy ferry tank.  A 50 gallon drum on chocks where the back seat goes, with a wobble pump to pump fuel up into the wing tank. They recommended that you run the wing tank down to less than a quarter full before pumping fuel up to it.  They said watch the gauges so you do not overfill it and pump fuel overboard.   The also recommended the long distance power setting of 1800 RPM and 23 inches of manifold pressure.  That was supposed to get the fuel consumption down to 14.7 gallons per hour.  That gave a little over eight hours in the air.  At that power setting, you get 100 knots! Still wouldn’t make Honolulu! John

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-)

Like minds I guess, but I resisted.  Abacus.com has an add-on for MS Flight Simulator that follows her route.    It wasn’t/isn’t an easy flight. John J. Miller

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

Da Plane, Boss, Da Plane! (sorry, just couldn’t help myself) John Galban====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-) Jeff Oslick

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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Check out http://www.calle.com/aviation/airports.cgi Allows you to specify departure, destination, range and speed, and displays a nice table and map of the results. Lots of material for dream flights… BTW you probably don’t want a totally deserted island; food, water, fuel, runway and women should be minimum requirements (the website allows you to specify 2 out of these 5 Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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        anyone tried fly fishing in either of these cpountries . i hear the fish are prolific. any info . please nick — | Mail sent via Demon Internet – Full IP for 10/Month Tel:0181 371 1234  |

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  anyone tried fly fishing in either of these cpountries . i hear the fish are prolific. any info . please

Look at http://www.club.innet.be/~pub00433/ (4k) —- Bloemfontein                | 9300                        | Republic of South Africa    |

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