Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F. Friend of mine breeds em (and goats as well, angora, cashmere, cashgora…)– He’s been looking for a good market for the hair, and I’ve been telling him to go to flyshops.  He’s got the stuff all cleaned and carded for the people who spin the stuff. Scott

        jesus, how revolting.  and yet we have folks here who get nauseous over the appearance of penelope cruz’s name, for god’s sake. your friend in the old north state wayno  (i mean, why isn’t rock trout all over this, as his hero says, like a bad suit…)

Response:

I am not a true devotee but I  have some yak hair around.  The zoo in Bismarck ND had two yaks (Yak and Yill ) that shed great masses of hair about this time of year.  I think one could have easily picked up two or three gunny sacks of yak hair without crossing into their pens.   The Bismarck zoo was more like a farm yard than a zoo and the wind blew the hair about. Speaking of zoos.  I had a friend ( still a friend but he quit the zoo job ) that gave me some polar bear hair he got at  the zoo. Polar bears also shed and he got the hair out of a filter in the bears swimming pool system.  I don’t know if hair obtained that way is leagle or not.  If I remember the law forbids skin and fur but I don’t know about  hair.  I  don’t know how much hair a polar bear sheds but he did say cleaning the filter was done every day or two.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns *****Snipped ****** TL MC

Response:

Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F.

Friend of mine breeds em (and goats as well, angora, cashmere, cashgora…)– He’s been looking for a good market for the hair, and I’ve been telling him to go to flyshops.  He’s got the stuff all cleaned and carded for the people who spin the stuff. Scott

Response:

i have llama’s…….got a mother & daughter in trade for tax work…how much llama fur do you need? give me an address and its yours….(as long as it fits into an envelope)…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F. Friend of mine breeds em (and goats as well, angora, cashmere, cashgora…)– He’s been looking for a good market for the hair, and I’ve been telling him to go to flyshops.  He’s got the stuff all cleaned and carded for the people who spin the stuff. Scott

Response:

Thanks a lot for the information. Now all I have to do is brush my cat more often. Seems like an endless source of dubbing material

Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns Mr.Charles might be of assistance, or try; http://www.wigandhairpiecesupply.com/hair2.html http://www.fao.org/docrep/v9384e/v9384e00.htm For some really exotic flies try http://www.kats-korner.com/bigcats/clouded.html TL MC

Response:

Apparently, true devotees keep yaks.  Difficult to brush, but also suitable for a wide range of patterns

What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F.

Response:

What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F.

See my previous post!  and ; http://www.canadianllama.com/ http://www.modernflies.com/llama.htm http://www.thebentrod.com/dubbing.htm http://www.justflytying.com/llama_material.htm http://www.euro-fly.com/French_dossier/14_dubbings_naturels/e14_natur… ings.htm For general information, one may use any hair or fur, for dubbing etc. If it is the right colour and texture, simply use it.  Some are more suitable for particular purposes, ( Polar Bear hair, is a case in point), but all of it is usable. TL MC

Response:

You don’t happen to have some patterns that use it?

Nothing specific. My two cats have very different fur, and one of the cats (my favorite) has many layers, colors, and textures. The stiffer hair is good for tails and legs, while the finer is good for dubbing. I recently tied some #12 and #16 mayfly spinners with the light-colored fur as body dubbing. I’ve caught some fish with them, so fish must like cats as much as cats like fish.  :-) Tim and to hell with this "brushing the cat" stuff — scissors work just fine.

Response:

What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. Joe F.

I’ve been making streamers from angora goat.  I can get the hanks for 99 cents an ounce, cleaned and ready to tie.  Its great stuff.           Frank Reid

Response:

What about llama fur (seriously)?   If I could catch the SOB, I could get plenty. I’ve been making streamers from angora goat.  I can get the hanks for 99 cents an ounce, cleaned and ready to tie.  Its great stuff.

Well, shoot.   Considering that this animal is damn near as smart as I am and a whole lot faster, I’m thinkin that 99 cents would be well spent. Joe F.

Response:

I’ve been making streamers from angora goat.  I can get the hanks for 99 cents an ounce, cleaned and ready to tie.  Its great stuff. Well, shoot.   Considering that this animal is damn near as smart as I am and a whole lot faster, I’m thinkin that 99 cents would be well spent. Joe F.

Goats don’t spit like llamas either. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

I’ve heard some people say so….?

Response:

I’ve heard some people say so….?

works for me  :-) Tim

Response:

You don’t happen to have some patterns that use it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard some people say so….? works for me  :-) Tim

Response:

You don’t happen to have some patterns that use it?

http://flytyingworld.com/PagesJ/jt-catcaddis.htm http://fly.hiwaay.net/~lmobbs/page12.html http://www.dicksfavoritesports.com/materialstips.htm http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/cottons.htm http://web.utk.edu/~ldecuir/tu/96sep.htm#l7 http://www.bobsflytying.com/mar02-julie.html http://freespace.virgin.net/howard.thresher/cpprhd.html http://freespace.virgin.net/howard.thresher/Ecdynymph.html http://www.beavers.ca/hmmm.html http://www.fly-fishing-club.co.uk/ibvar.html http://flytyingworld.com/PagesU/ug-m.htm http://www.visi.com/~mpv/FlyFishing/Adams/AdamsFOTM.html There are thousands more. Cat fur can be used for a whole range of patterns. TL MC

Response:

Thanks a lot for the information. Now all I have to do is brush my cat more often. Seems like an endless source of dubbing material – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t happen to have some patterns that use it? http://flytyingworld.com/PagesJ/jt-catcaddis.htm http://fly.hiwaay.net/~lmobbs/page12.html http://www.dicksfavoritesports.com/materialstips.htm http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/cottons.htm http://web.utk.edu/~ldecuir/tu/96sep.htm#l7 http://www.bobsflytying.com/mar02-julie.html http://freespace.virgin.net/howard.thresher/cpprhd.html http://freespace.virgin.net/howard.thresher/Ecdynymph.html http://www.beavers.ca/hmmm.html http://www.fly-fishing-club.co.uk/ibvar.html http://flytyingworld.com/PagesU/ug-m.htm http://www.visi.com/~mpv/FlyFishing/Adams/AdamsFOTM.html There are thousands more. Cat fur can be used for a whole range of patterns. TL MC

Response:

Question:

The topic line  speaks for itself. Drew

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman

Don’t you work for a living? Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

You have a hard time moving from one topic to the next, don’t you?

You started a new topic?  Is it just me, or does this feel like "Groundhog Day" to anyone else?

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman Don’t you work for a living?

He’s a Usenet Tetherball.  This is what he does. Sandy (your turn to whack him ’round the other direction)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman Don’t you work for a living? He’s a Usenet Tetherball.  This is what he does. Sandy (your turn to whack him ’round the other direction)

Well……. I know this is probably revolutionary, and will result in much abuse and denigration from the dyed in the wool conservatives in our midst, but  could we perhaps simply cut the elastic? After much  abuse, some quite perverse and orgiastic, some folks decided, to cap the blokes elastic, "Free speech, free speech", cried some aghast, "you must sit still and be abused, you wild phantast, How dare you try to change things, with your calls", in the meantime the idiot was still searching for his balls. Loud twangs emitted from the aggravated multitude, neuticles were substituted, and it was then construed, when a nasty bugger capitulates, and then confesses, no one has the right, to stop him wearing dresses. TL MC

Response:

The topic line  speaks for itself.

I think it was supposed to be, "I can’t believe I’ve learned much here." — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman

Response:

writing skills.

See ya REAL soon then! Wolfgang

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman

Found out there are more keys than the K, I , A and S? Herman

Response:

Do your homework, Herman. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman Found out there are more keys than the K, I , A and S? Herman

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. …

You always hate the ones you love. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills.

Alternatively, just get a new ISP and sign on as Felicity_the_Flyfisherwoman. Much fun.

Response:

You have a hard time moving from one topic to the next, don’t you? — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alternatively, just get a new ISP and sign on as Felicity_the_Flyfisherwoman. Much fun.

Response:

Question:

Sound like FUN! Please let me know if you have any link addition recommendations for my "Best Scuba Diving" page at: http://homepages.about.com/asiabill/travelphilippines/     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a difference a day makes… Wednesday was to be our last day of diving for the whole trip, and after discussing it briefly with Gregg, Elizabeth and Shayne the unanimous decision was to head out to Monad Shoal again searching for Mantas and Thresher sharks. The dive site was about 20 minutes from Malapascua by banca, and to ensure the best chance of seeing either species, we had to get up early (at 7 am) to get out to the dive site as early as possible. We had spoken to several people in Malapascua and in Sabang about the best time to go, and although everyone we spoke to said to go as early as possible for the threshers, others said the chances of seeing mantas would be a little later. So, we decided to pick the civilised time of 7am to rise and get out to the dive site. This would theoretically give us a decent chance at seeing both. I think that our chances were considerably improved by the lack of other divers operating in the area. The Abu Sayyef situation had really had a bad influence on the Philippines tourism industry at the time, so there were very few other divers around. All I can say is, great! More for us. We virtually had the run of the place in all three locations we had visited; diving with a maximum of three other divers at any time during the trip. This gave us the added bonus of having carte blanche in dictating the dive times and destinations. Cool. The morning was fairly bright and skies were reasonably clear. When we jumped in the water we saw we had the best visibility we had seen in this spot at just over 20 metres. We had previously been given instructions on how to behave to minimise threatening behaviour. That included staying low over the reef (which was easy since it had been decimated by dynamite fishing to the point it resembled a wasteland), and staying as close together as possible. If there were any sightings of either manta or thresher the group was to stop immediately and drop onto knees on the bottom. This would allow the creatures to come as close as they felt comfortable. The fish were actually quite inquisitive and would come quite close as long as there was no threatening behaviour. As soon as we descended as a group we headed off along the edge of the shoal in about 24m of water. We were all pumped up to see some Manta on this dive and it wasn’t long before we reached the point where we had seen all the previous action. We slowly cruised around hoping that something would happen here. The suspense was killing me, and with Shayne and Elizabeth on my right, I thought we were going to be out of luck when the action began. Over my right hand shoulder glided this three and a half metre wide Manta. It was only about three metres away from me and it was eyeballing us out as it glided over. They are truly fantastic creatures. They seem huge when you see them up close, which they are, but they have a graceful elegance that belies their hulking body mass. With a silent swoosh of its giant wings it moved over the top of us and towards the chasm in the shoal in front of us. David, who was about 4 metres in front of us, had yet to see it and the three of us were all too afraid of startling it to shout into our regs to get his attention. I will probably remember Dave’s reaction more than the manta itself. We all wanted Dave to see the manta so he could take some snaps with his camera that was attached to his BC. When Dave finally saw it it was cruising less than 2 metres above him. Dave must have got the surprise of his life as I saw Dave visibly jump when he turned to see this giant manta so close to him. I had to press my mask against my face to stop it from filling with water I was smiling so much. He cursed us afterwards but we did the right thing. I think he still got a photo or two. It casually glided over Dave and across a chasm in the shoal. Looking into the distance we saw another slightly smaller manta swimming in our direction towards the other manta. As they passed each other they actually circled each other as if in greeting and then headed off in opposite directions into the gloom. After they had gone, we noticed that off in the distance across the chasm there was another group of divers being entertained by a thresher shark that was parading in front of them. In the group of divers we could see the Japanese and American women we had dived with earlier, flashing away madly with their underwater digital cameras. The shark must have noticed us too as it decided to come over and have a look at us. As it crossed the chasm we could see that there was a large amount of heavy line, presumably fishing line hanging out of its mouth. It came closer than any of the other sharks we had seen, and swam back and forth in front of us, maybe only five metres away. At one stage it looked like it was heading directly towards me and for a second I felt a little nervous. Then it turned to do another lap in front of us. It didn’t look too happy to actually be carrying the line behind it, and we saw its whole body shudder once or twice as it tried in vain to dislodge the line. It seemed like today was our lucky day as before the shark disappeared, another thresher rose up out of the void and swam with the first shark. For about 15 seconds we sat there mesmerised with the two thresher sharks swimming back and forwards in front of us. After they left we sat there waiting for the next show to begin. We were about leave again, but there was one more thing in store for us to see. One more manta decided to swoop in suddenly over heads as if to do a flyby before changing its angle of attack and ascending again, swimming off into the distance, leaving us with only the smiles on our faces. I remember we almost went into deco on that dive as we headed back to the anchor line ascending to mid water to make the swim back. We surfaced into sunshine, but to be honest I can’t remember any more of today’s trip. The other group of divers which had been entertained by the threshers first, had some great shot of the sharks, but had missed out on the mantas all together. We had been extremely fortunate. Daniel, the other divemaster told us they rarely see more than one manta together at the one time. We had been graced with three. Over our late breakfast of bacon and eggs at Sunshine Bar we discussed our plans for the rest of the day. We probably had one more chance for a dive that afternoon if we wanted it. Jacques suggested the possibility of a ride out to one of the wrecks that were available, but we were only interested in one thing, more Mantas! Gregg and Dave decided to wait this one out however, so it would just be Shayne, Elizabeth and myself from our group. Later on that afternoon we found ourselves again at the bottom of the anchor rope ready to go looking for more big fish. We were eager to have another session like we had had that morning. We swam as a group out to the very spot where we had been this morning, constantly checking up, down, left, right waiting for the next leviathan to unexpectedly appear from nowhere. We stopped and perched ourselves in the spot, and waited, and waited, and waited. Then we turned around and swam back towards the anchor line, still hoping we would get a final glimpse of something before we had to return to the mundane air filled world above. But nothing came, and as we surfaced for the final time I was happy. The non-eventful dive we had just had was a confirmation of the miraculous experience we had had that morning. I still appreciate that second dive. The people who had stayed missed out on the affirmation of just how lucky we had all been that morning. Once we got back we helped unload the boat and washed out gear thoroughly for the first time in two and a half weeks. Tomorrow afternoon we would ride the banca back to Maya followed by a painful three and a half-hour trip over pot-holed roads back to Cebu City for the night. The day after we would fly back to Manila and then onto Adelaide overnight, landing just after lunch on Saturday, three weeks since we took off. We dove with Philippine Islands Divers which is owned by a friendly long time European expatriate, Jacques Trotin, who comes highly recommended. (More information can be found at www.phildivers.com) The resort we stayed in at Malapascua was called Blue Water resort. It is run by a Filipina, who does everything from office administration, change beds, cook all the meals, and serve behind the bar. She also does security as witnessed first hand when there was trouble between rival masseuses. The fact that she is almost 6 foot and just about bigger than any male Filipino I saw probably helps her out. She is helped out by a small but highly entertaining group of philipinos, including Joseph, Analimba, and Decilma. The accommodation was a lot more basic than the standard offered by Atlantis, and after the initial adjustment I found myself enjoying this place perhaps more than any of the other spots we had been to. Even though there was no hot water and only a tiny curtain for privacy, the lack of facilities highlighted the true beauty and value of the Philippines as a holiday destination. This was a week of pure luxury as far as I’m concerned; an abundance of relaxation in a stunning picturesque setting, great diving, great food, and great friends. What more can you ask for? Brenton Collas Trip

… read more »

Response:

I had a very similar experience with Mantas off the Hermit Islands in Papua New Guinea on a charter dive cruise except that they were at the location every time we dived which was two full days.  They came in very close right over our heads as we crouched by a large boulder.  The Mantas seem to like water that is not very clear, or that is my impression but others have told me the same thing. Truly, with the terrorism problem and threats of further action, I would be afraid to travel to the Philippines at this time.  I had thought that Palawan was too far removed to be attacked but I was wrong. I suppose there is still some great diving left in the Philippines and at the time of my visit to Apo Reef and other diving off Busanga back in 1979, I was very impressed, but that is all history now with the dynamiting that has subsequently ruined so many wonderful locations.  Still, the possibility of great u/w flora in the Philippines is one of the best in the world but I guess I’ll have to settle for PNG for a while until things get settled down in the Philippines.

Response:

Sounds like an awesome trip!  I’m heading to South Negros next week for a 3 month stay and would be interested in some insight from you on a couple of things.  I also have a question about someone in one of your photos—great, BTW!  I tried to email you but it was returned to me.  You can mail me at Beck

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a difference a day makes… Wednesday was to be our last day of diving for the whole trip, and after discussing it briefly with Gregg, Elizabeth and Shayne the unanimous decision was to head out to Monad Shoal again searching for Mantas and Thresher sharks. The dive site was about 20 minutes from Malapascua by banca, and to ensure the best chance of seeing either species, we had to get up early (at 7 am) to get out to the dive site as early as possible. We had spoken to several people in Malapascua and in Sabang about the best time to go, and although everyone we spoke to said to go as early as possible for the threshers, others said the chances of seeing mantas would be a little later. So, we decided to pick the civilised time of 7am to rise and get out to the dive site. This would theoretically give us a decent chance at seeing both. I think that our chances were considerably improved by the lack of other divers operating in the area. The Abu Sayyef situation had really had a bad influence on the Philippines tourism industry at the time, so there were very few other divers around. All I can say is, great! More for us. We virtually had the run of the place in all three locations we had visited; diving with a maximum of three other divers at any time during the trip. This gave us the added bonus of having carte blanche in dictating the dive times and destinations. Cool. The morning was fairly bright and skies were reasonably clear. When we jumped in the water we saw we had the best visibility we had seen in this spot at just over 20 metres. We had previously been given instructions on how to behave to minimise threatening behaviour. That included staying low over the reef (which was easy since it had been decimated by dynamite fishing to the point it resembled a wasteland), and staying as close together as possible. If there were any sightings of either manta or thresher the group was to stop immediately and drop onto knees on the bottom. This would allow the creatures to come as close as they felt comfortable. The fish were actually quite inquisitive and would come quite close as long as there was no threatening behaviour. As soon as we descended as a group we headed off along the edge of the shoal in about 24m of water. We were all pumped up to see some Manta on this dive and it wasn’t long before we reached the point where we had seen all the previous action. We slowly cruised around hoping that something would happen here. The suspense was killing me, and with Shayne and Elizabeth on my right, I thought we were going to be out of luck when the action began. Over my right hand shoulder glided this three and a half metre wide Manta. It was only about three metres away from me and it was eyeballing us out as it glided over. They are truly fantastic creatures. They seem huge when you see them up close, which they are, but they have a graceful elegance that belies their hulking body mass. With a silent swoosh of its giant wings it moved over the top of us and towards the chasm in the shoal in front of us. David, who was about 4 metres in front of us, had yet to see it and the three of us were all too afraid of startling it to shout into our regs to get his attention. I will probably remember Dave’s reaction more than the manta itself. We all wanted Dave to see the manta so he could take some snaps with his camera that was attached to his BC. When Dave finally saw it it was cruising less than 2 metres above him. Dave must have got the surprise of his life as I saw Dave visibly jump when he turned to see this giant manta so close to him. I had to press my mask against my face to stop it from filling with water I was smiling so much. He cursed us afterwards but we did the right thing. I think he still got a photo or two. It casually glided over Dave and across a chasm in the shoal. Looking into the distance we saw another slightly smaller manta swimming in our direction towards the other manta. As they passed each other they actually circled each other as if in greeting and then headed off in opposite directions into the gloom. After they had gone, we noticed that off in the distance across the chasm there was another group of divers being entertained by a thresher shark that was parading in front of them. In the group of divers we could see the Japanese and American women we had dived with earlier, flashing away madly with their underwater digital cameras. The shark must have noticed us too as it decided to come over and have a look at us. As it crossed the chasm we could see that there was a large amount of heavy line, presumably fishing line hanging out of its mouth. It came closer than any of the other sharks we had seen, and swam back and forth in front of us, maybe only five metres away. At one stage it looked like it was heading directly towards me and for a second I felt a little nervous. Then it turned to do another lap in front of us. It didn’t look too happy to actually be carrying the line behind it, and we saw its whole body shudder once or twice as it tried in vain to dislodge the line. It seemed like today was our lucky day as before the shark disappeared, another thresher rose up out of the void and swam with the first shark. For about 15 seconds we sat there mesmerised with the two thresher sharks swimming back and forwards in front of us. After they left we sat there waiting for the next show to begin. We were about leave again, but there was one more thing in store for us to see. One more manta decided to swoop in suddenly over heads as if to do a flyby before changing its angle of attack and ascending again, swimming off into the distance, leaving us with only the smiles on our faces. I remember we almost went into deco on that dive as we headed back to the anchor line ascending to mid water to make the swim back. We surfaced into sunshine, but to be honest I can’t remember any more of today’s trip. The other group of divers which had been entertained by the threshers first, had some great shot of the sharks, but had missed out on the mantas all together. We had been extremely fortunate. Daniel, the other divemaster told us they rarely see more than one manta together at the one time. We had been graced with three. Over our late breakfast of bacon and eggs at Sunshine Bar we discussed our plans for the rest of the day. We probably had one more chance for a dive that afternoon if we wanted it. Jacques suggested the possibility of a ride out to one of the wrecks that were available, but we were only interested in one thing, more Mantas! Gregg and Dave decided to wait this one out however, so it would just be Shayne, Elizabeth and myself from our group. Later on that afternoon we found ourselves again at the bottom of the anchor rope ready to go looking for more big fish. We were eager to have another session like we had had that morning. We swam as a group out to the very spot where we had been this morning, constantly checking up, down, left, right waiting for the next leviathan to unexpectedly appear from nowhere. We stopped and perched ourselves in the spot, and waited, and waited, and waited. Then we turned around and swam back towards the anchor line, still hoping we would get a final glimpse of something before we had to return to the mundane air filled world above. But nothing came, and as we surfaced for the final time I was happy. The non-eventful dive we had just had was a confirmation of the miraculous experience we had had that morning. I still appreciate that second dive. The people who had stayed missed out on the affirmation of just how lucky we had all been that morning. Once we got back we helped unload the boat and washed out gear thoroughly for the first time in two and a half weeks. Tomorrow afternoon we would ride the banca back to Maya followed by a painful three and a half-hour trip over pot-holed roads back to Cebu City for the night. The day after we would fly back to Manila and then onto Adelaide overnight, landing just after lunch on Saturday, three weeks since we took off. We dove with Philippine Islands Divers which is owned by a friendly long time European expatriate, Jacques Trotin, who comes highly recommended. (More information can be found at www.phildivers.com) The resort we stayed in at Malapascua was called Blue Water resort. It is run by a Filipina, who does everything from office administration, change beds, cook all the meals, and serve behind the bar. She also does security as witnessed first hand when there was trouble between rival masseuses. The fact that she is almost 6 foot and just about bigger than any male Filipino I saw probably helps her out. She is helped out by a small but highly entertaining group of philipinos, including Joseph, Analimba, and Decilma. The accommodation was a lot more basic than the standard offered by Atlantis, and after the initial adjustment I found myself enjoying this place perhaps more than any of the other spots we had been to. Even though there was no hot water and only a tiny curtain for privacy, the lack of facilities highlighted the true beauty and value of the Philippines as a holiday destination. This was a week of pure luxury as far as I’m concerned; an abundance of relaxation in a stunning

… read more »

Response:

You lucky Bastard!!!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a difference a day makes… Wednesday was to be our last day of diving for the whole trip, and after discussing it briefly with Gregg, Elizabeth and Shayne the unanimous decision was to head out to Monad Shoal again searching for Mantas and Thresher sharks. The dive site was about 20 minutes from Malapascua by banca, and to ensure the best chance of seeing either species, we had to get up early (at 7 am) to get out to the dive site as early as possible. We had spoken to several people in Malapascua and in Sabang about the best time to go, and although everyone we spoke to said to go as early as possible for the threshers, others said the chances of seeing mantas would be a little later. So, we decided to pick the civilised time of 7am to rise and get out to the dive site. This would theoretically give us a decent chance at seeing both. I think that our chances were considerably improved by the lack of other divers operating in the area. The Abu Sayyef situation had really had a bad influence on the Philippines tourism industry at the time, so there were very few other divers around. All I can say is, great! More for us. We virtually had the run of the place in all three locations we had visited; diving with a maximum of three other divers at any time during the trip. This gave us the added bonus of having carte blanche in dictating the dive times and destinations. Cool. The morning was fairly bright and skies were reasonably clear. When we jumped in the water we saw we had the best visibility we had seen in this spot at just over 20 metres. We had previously been given instructions on how to behave to minimise threatening behaviour. That included staying low over the reef (which was easy since it had been decimated by dynamite fishing to the point it resembled a wasteland), and staying as close together as possible. If there were any sightings of either manta or thresher the group was to stop immediately and drop onto knees on the bottom. This would allow the creatures to come as close as they felt comfortable. The fish were actually quite inquisitive and would come quite close as long as there was no threatening behaviour. As soon as we descended as a group we headed off along the edge of the shoal in about 24m of water. We were all pumped up to see some Manta on this dive and it wasn’t long before we reached the point where we had seen all the previous action. We slowly cruised around hoping that something would happen here. The suspense was killing me, and with Shayne and Elizabeth on my right, I thought we were going to be out of luck when the action began. Over my right hand shoulder glided this three and a half metre wide Manta. It was only about three metres away from me and it was eyeballing us out as it glided over. They are truly fantastic creatures. They seem huge when you see them up close, which they are, but they have a graceful elegance that belies their hulking body mass. With a silent swoosh of its giant wings it moved over the top of us and towards the chasm in the shoal in front of us. David, who was about 4 metres in front of us, had yet to see it and the three of us were all too afraid of startling it to shout into our regs to get his attention. I will probably remember Dave’s reaction more than the manta itself. We all wanted Dave to see the manta so he could take some snaps with his camera that was attached to his BC. When Dave finally saw it it was cruising less than 2 metres above him. Dave must have got the surprise of his life as I saw Dave visibly jump when he turned to see this giant manta so close to him. I had to press my mask against my face to stop it from filling with water I was smiling so much. He cursed us afterwards but we did the right thing. I think he still got a photo or two. It casually glided over Dave and across a chasm in the shoal. Looking into the distance we saw another slightly smaller manta swimming in our direction towards the other manta. As they passed each other they actually circled each other as if in greeting and then headed off in opposite directions into the gloom. After they had gone, we noticed that off in the distance across the chasm there was another group of divers being entertained by a thresher shark that was parading in front of them. In the group of divers we could see the Japanese and American women we had dived with earlier, flashing away madly with their underwater digital cameras. The shark must have noticed us too as it decided to come over and have a look at us. As it crossed the chasm we could see that there was a large amount of heavy line, presumably fishing line hanging out of its mouth. It came closer than any of the other sharks we had seen, and swam back and forth in front of us, maybe only five metres away. At one stage it looked like it was heading directly towards me and for a second I felt a little nervous. Then it turned to do another lap in front of us. It didn’t look too happy to actually be carrying the line behind it, and we saw its whole body shudder once or twice as it tried in vain to dislodge the line. It seemed like today was our lucky day as before the shark disappeared, another thresher rose up out of the void and swam with the first shark. For about 15 seconds we sat there mesmerised with the two thresher sharks swimming back and forwards in front of us. After they left we sat there waiting for the next show to begin. We were about leave again, but there was one more thing in store for us to see. One more manta decided to swoop in suddenly over heads as if to do a flyby before changing its angle of attack and ascending again, swimming off into the distance, leaving us with only the smiles on our faces. I remember we almost went into deco on that dive as we headed back to the anchor line ascending to mid water to make the swim back. We surfaced into sunshine, but to be honest I can’t remember any more of today’s trip. The other group of divers which had been entertained by the threshers first, had some great shot of the sharks, but had missed out on the mantas all together. We had been extremely fortunate. Daniel, the other divemaster told us they rarely see more than one manta together at the one time. We had been graced with three. Over our late breakfast of bacon and eggs at Sunshine Bar we discussed our plans for the rest of the day. We probably had one more chance for a dive that afternoon if we wanted it. Jacques suggested the possibility of a ride out to one of the wrecks that were available, but we were only interested in one thing, more Mantas! Gregg and Dave decided to wait this one out however, so it would just be Shayne, Elizabeth and myself from our group. Later on that afternoon we found ourselves again at the bottom of the anchor rope ready to go looking for more big fish. We were eager to have another session like we had had that morning. We swam as a group out to the very spot where we had been this morning, constantly checking up, down, left, right waiting for the next leviathan to unexpectedly appear from nowhere. We stopped and perched ourselves in the spot, and waited, and waited, and waited. Then we turned around and swam back towards the anchor line, still hoping we would get a final glimpse of something before we had to return to the mundane air filled world above. But nothing came, and as we surfaced for the final time I was happy. The non-eventful dive we had just had was a confirmation of the miraculous experience we had had that morning. I still appreciate that second dive. The people who had stayed missed out on the affirmation of just how lucky we had all been that morning. Once we got back we helped unload the boat and washed out gear thoroughly for the first time in two and a half weeks. Tomorrow afternoon we would ride the banca back to Maya followed by a painful three and a half-hour trip over pot-holed roads back to Cebu City for the night. The day after we would fly back to Manila and then onto Adelaide overnight, landing just after lunch on Saturday, three weeks since we took off. We dove with Philippine Islands Divers which is owned by a friendly long time European expatriate, Jacques Trotin, who comes highly recommended. (More information can be found at www.phildivers.com) The resort we stayed in at Malapascua was called Blue Water resort. It is run by a Filipina, who does everything from office administration, change beds, cook all the meals, and serve behind the bar. She also does security as witnessed first hand when there was trouble between rival masseuses. The fact that she is almost 6 foot and just about bigger than any male Filipino I saw probably helps her out. She is helped out by a small but highly entertaining group of philipinos, including Joseph, Analimba, and Decilma. The accommodation was a lot more basic than the standard offered by Atlantis, and after the initial adjustment I found myself enjoying this place perhaps more than any of the other spots we had been to. Even though there was no hot water and only a tiny curtain for privacy, the lack of facilities highlighted the true beauty and value of the Philippines as a holiday destination. This was a week of pure luxury as far as I’m concerned; an abundance of relaxation in a stunning picturesque setting, great diving, great food, and great friends. What more can you ask for? Brenton Collas Trip photos: http://www.geocities.com/kwailo73/ph2001/ph2001.htm

Response:

What a difference a day makes… Wednesday was to be our last day of diving for the whole trip, and after discussing it briefly with Gregg, Elizabeth and Shayne the unanimous decision was to head out to Monad Shoal again searching for Mantas and Thresher sharks. The dive site was about 20 minutes from Malapascua by banca, and to ensure the best chance of seeing either species, we had to get up early (at 7 am) to get out to the dive site as early as possible. We had spoken to several people in Malapascua and in Sabang about the best time to go, and although everyone we spoke to said to go as early as possible for the threshers, others said the chances of seeing mantas would be a little later. So, we decided to pick the civilised time of 7am to rise and get out to the dive site. This would theoretically give us a decent chance at seeing both. I think that our chances were considerably improved by the lack of other divers operating in the area. The Abu Sayyef situation had really had a bad influence on the Philippines tourism industry at the time, so there were very few other divers around. All I can say is, great! More for us. We virtually had the run of the place in all three locations we had visited; diving with a maximum of three other divers at any time during the trip. This gave us the added bonus of having carte blanche in dictating the dive times and destinations. Cool. The morning was fairly bright and skies were reasonably clear. When we jumped in the water we saw we had the best visibility we had seen in this spot at just over 20 metres. We had previously been given instructions on how to behave to minimise threatening behaviour. That included staying low over the reef (which was easy since it had been decimated by dynamite fishing to the point it resembled a wasteland), and staying as close together as possible. If there were any sightings of either manta or thresher the group was to stop immediately and drop onto knees on the bottom. This would allow the creatures to come as close as they felt comfortable. The fish were actually quite inquisitive and would come quite close as long as there was no threatening behaviour. As soon as we descended as a group we headed off along the edge of the shoal in about 24m of water. We were all pumped up to see some Manta on this dive and it wasn’t long before we reached the point where we had seen all the previous action. We slowly cruised around hoping that something would happen here. The suspense was killing me, and with Shayne and Elizabeth on my right, I thought we were going to be out of luck when the action began. Over my right hand shoulder glided this three and a half metre wide Manta. It was only about three metres away from me and it was eyeballing us out as it glided over. They are truly fantastic creatures. They seem huge when you see them up close, which they are, but they have a graceful elegance that belies their hulking body mass. With a silent swoosh of its giant wings it moved over the top of us and towards the chasm in the shoal in front of us. David, who was about 4 metres in front of us, had yet to see it and the three of us were all too afraid of startling it to shout into our regs to get his attention. I will probably remember Dave’s reaction more than the manta itself. We all wanted Dave to see the manta so he could take some snaps with his camera that was attached to his BC. When Dave finally saw it it was cruising less than 2 metres above him. Dave must have got the surprise of his life as I saw Dave visibly jump when he turned to see this giant manta so close to him. I had to press my mask against my face to stop it from filling with water I was smiling so much. He cursed us afterwards but we did the right thing. I think he still got a photo or two. It casually glided over Dave and across a chasm in the shoal. Looking into the distance we saw another slightly smaller manta swimming in our direction towards the other manta. As they passed each other they actually circled each other as if in greeting and then headed off in opposite directions into the gloom. After they had gone, we noticed that off in the distance across the chasm there was another group of divers being entertained by a thresher shark that was parading in front of them. In the group of divers we could see the Japanese and American women we had dived with earlier, flashing away madly with their underwater digital cameras. The shark must have noticed us too as it decided to come over and have a look at us. As it crossed the chasm we could see that there was a large amount of heavy line, presumably fishing line hanging out of its mouth. It came closer than any of the other sharks we had seen, and swam back and forth in front of us, maybe only five metres away. At one stage it looked like it was heading directly towards me and for a second I felt a little nervous. Then it turned to do another lap in front of us. It didn’t look too happy to actually be carrying the line behind it, and we saw its whole body shudder once or twice as it tried in vain to dislodge the line. It seemed like today was our lucky day as before the shark disappeared, another thresher rose up out of the void and swam with the first shark. For about 15 seconds we sat there mesmerised with the two thresher sharks swimming back and forwards in front of us. After they left we sat there waiting for the next show to begin. We were about leave again, but there was one more thing in store for us to see. One more manta decided to swoop in suddenly over heads as if to do a flyby before changing its angle of attack and ascending again, swimming off into the distance, leaving us with only the smiles on our faces. I remember we almost went into deco on that dive as we headed back to the anchor line ascending to mid water to make the swim back. We surfaced into sunshine, but to be honest I can’t remember any more of today’s trip. The other group of divers which had been entertained by the threshers first, had some great shot of the sharks, but had missed out on the mantas all together. We had been extremely fortunate. Daniel, the other divemaster told us they rarely see more than one manta together at the one time. We had been graced with three. Over our late breakfast of bacon and eggs at Sunshine Bar we discussed our plans for the rest of the day. We probably had one more chance for a dive that afternoon if we wanted it. Jacques suggested the possibility of a ride out to one of the wrecks that were available, but we were only interested in one thing, more Mantas! Gregg and Dave decided to wait this one out however, so it would just be Shayne, Elizabeth and myself from our group. Later on that afternoon we found ourselves again at the bottom of the anchor rope ready to go looking for more big fish. We were eager to have another session like we had had that morning. We swam as a group out to the very spot where we had been this morning, constantly checking up, down, left, right waiting for the next leviathan to unexpectedly appear from nowhere. We stopped and perched ourselves in the spot, and waited, and waited, and waited. Then we turned around and swam back towards the anchor line, still hoping we would get a final glimpse of something before we had to return to the mundane air filled world above. But nothing came, and as we surfaced for the final time I was happy. The non-eventful dive we had just had was a confirmation of the miraculous experience we had had that morning. I still appreciate that second dive. The people who had stayed missed out on the affirmation of just how lucky we had all been that morning. Once we got back we helped unload the boat and washed out gear thoroughly for the first time in two and a half weeks. Tomorrow afternoon we would ride the banca back to Maya followed by a painful three and a half-hour trip over pot-holed roads back to Cebu City for the night. The day after we would fly back to Manila and then onto Adelaide overnight, landing just after lunch on Saturday, three weeks since we took off. We dove with Philippine Islands Divers which is owned by a friendly long time European expatriate, Jacques Trotin, who comes highly recommended. (More information can be found at www.phildivers.com) The resort we stayed in at Malapascua was called Blue Water resort. It is run by a Filipina, who does everything from office administration, change beds, cook all the meals, and serve behind the bar. She also does security as witnessed first hand when there was trouble between rival masseuses. The fact that she is almost 6 foot and just about bigger than any male Filipino I saw probably helps her out. She is helped out by a small but highly entertaining group of philipinos, including Joseph, Analimba, and Decilma. The accommodation was a lot more basic than the standard offered by Atlantis, and after the initial adjustment I found myself enjoying this place perhaps more than any of the other spots we had been to. Even though there was no hot water and only a tiny curtain for privacy, the lack of facilities highlighted the true beauty and value of the Philippines as a holiday destination. This was a week of pure luxury as far as I’m concerned; an abundance of relaxation in a stunning picturesque setting, great diving, great food, and great friends. What more can you ask for? Brenton Collas Trip photos: http://www.geocities.com/kwailo73/ph2001/ph2001.htm

Response:

Question:

Oh man.  Bears and goats and underwear and snakes and trees and…and….and…jeez!  What kind of people are you??!

Ya ain’t seen nothin’ ’till you’ve seen an ol’ rattler tryin’ to get his fangs loose from LaPlac’s shorts<g. — Charlie…

Response:

ROFFLOL

Rolling Outdoors Fly Fishing Laughing Out Loud??? Regards, Jeff

Response:

(Hilarious stuff snipped) Steve, I sure hope you keep this up, ’cause I find myself wading through all the other stuff just to find your review (I also make certain that I have no comestibles in my mouth that might otherwise coat my monitor). Thanks for the levity. Bob

Response:

we need a new acronym because ROTFLMBO is and understatement after reading this weeks report.

How about  LSHIPM  (Laughing So Hard I Pissed Myself) Though this appropriate thanks to the go potty post. Peter

Response:

ROFFLOL

Monday April 24th Discussion of a cleaner, gentler version of ROFF continues this week

<and cetera

Response:

much good snippeded.. Walt, far beit for me to call into question your sage advise, but on Upper Creek the odds of seeing is pretty fair; however, the odds of being bitten is anyone’s guess!  Caution is emphasized!  In addition to everything else I own, I ,always, carry a snake bite kit. Which leads me to another thought: Are there any good sherpas coming to the Clave! Opie and so are the snakes. i’d like to emphasize that the odds of seeing,

snippage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a serpent is extremely remote, the situation does exist so take a little bit more care than usual moving up a stream, especially where you put your hands when climbing. waldo

Response:

C… leaves are coming out… and so are the snakes….

Oh man.  Bears and goats and underwear and snakes and trees and…and….and…jeez!  What kind of people are you??!

Response:

By midweek they’re drinking Metamucil instead of scotch and crashing at 9 o’clock.

But up plenty early to see PJ drag *your* ass out of bed<g. — Charlie…

Response:

By midweek they’re drinking Metamucil instead of scotch and crashing at 9 o’clock. But up plenty early to see PJ drag *your* ass out of bed<g. — Charlie…

which is well worth the price of admission also…. although jeff, mark, and i got some serious fishing done this past week, there’s still plenty left to do. the best moment i had was on a little feeder stream in the wilson watershed… jeff, after much ado, standing in a small waterfall, bow & arrowed a stimulator through a tight gauntlet of rhodo into a small stone faced pool …. he was rewarded with a truly beautiful wild brown of about 10-12 inches and i was rewarded with the satisfaction of  viewing a well done presentation in a damn near impossible scenario. way to go jeffie, you’ve earned your small stream badge one other note of import…. spring is here… leaves are coming out… and so are the snakes. i’d like to emphasize that the odds of seeing, much less being bitten by a serpent is extremely remote, the situation does exist so take a little bit more care than usual moving up a stream, especially where you put your hands when climbing. waldo

Response:

< great stuff snipped With blatant disregard for the feelings of those who won’t be arriving at the clave until later in the week, Tom Brown posts the Clave Kickoff menu, generating a collective outporing of drool not experienced since Greg Pavlov’s last post. …

For future reference, it’s been my observation that it’s best to arrive at a ‘Clave as early as possible. Tom’s Opening Ceremonies feast is one good reason, another is that the geezers are still able to party and socialize a bit early in the week. By midweek they’re drinking Metamucil instead of scotch and crashing at 9 o’clock. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Definitely first class synopsis and commentary Steve.  Hope you will continue the weekly satire.

Response:

Monday April 24th [snip] Meanwhile the Dueling Daves (Tripper and LaCourse) get in an argument about who could wade the best back when they were both healthy enough to actually fish standing up. [snip] And that’s the week that was. Until next time, –Steve

we need a new acronym because ROTFLMBO is and understatement after reading this weeks report.

Response:

Monday April 24th Discussion of a cleaner, gentler version of ROFF continues this week

        oh, hell, man, this was terrific.  but not accurate.  i am the guy in charge of getting the *t-shirt* put together.  my little boy is the designer.  and louie laplac is the hat guy. wayno, always a stickler for the truth.

Response:

oh, hell, man, this was terrific.  but not accurate.  i am the guy in charge of getting the *t-shirt* put together.  my little boy is the designer.  and louie laplac is the hat guy.

Aw, crap. I knew that. My bad. Sorry LaCourse. –Steve

Response:

Aw, crap. I knew that. My bad. Sorry LaCourse.

Here’s a way to help you remember: when you think hat, think head. That leads to head up the ass, which leads to Forty. Since nobody would ever wear a hat designed by Forty, it has to be LaPlac! <g — Charlie…

Response:

Totally freaking hilarious, Steve. You’ve founf your calling. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Totally freaking hilarious, Steve. You’ve founf your calling.

I agree.  I love reading Steve’s new week review.  :-) — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Monday April 24th Discussion of a cleaner, gentler version of ROFF continues this week with topics falling into the following general categories: (1) Newbies are idiots; (2) People who call newbies idiots are idiots (3) People who whine about calling newbies idiots are idiots (4) People who get upset at those who whine about newbies being called idiots are idiots. Meanwhile the Dueling Daves (Tripper and LaCourse) get in an argument about who could wade the best back when they were both healthy enough to actually fish standing up. Vern suggests a new idea for a "telecopying" wading staff that will apparently allow you to send and receive lewd FAXes while fishing instead of having to sit on the cold copy machine at the office. Tuesday April 25th BillyFish exposes fly fishing’s dirty little secret (literally) when he poses the question "how do you go potty when you’re on a float tube in the middle of a lake?" Noted suggestions include: (1) soil yourself and change clothes when you get back to the car–Ken Fortenberry; (2) Wade wet and no one will know–Charlie Choc; (3) use the "Stadium Pal", which consists of three parts: an external catheter worn like a condom, a flexible hose, and a collection bag worn on the inner calf–Frank Reid. Incidentally, the Stadium Pal Web site provides a helpful sizing template you can use to determine what size catheter is the best fit–see http://www.stadiumpal.com/sizer.htm for details. NOTE to Muskie: don’t worry about printing out the template–the 23mm size should give you plenty of room to grow. Wednesday April 26th Political debate of the relative advantages of stiff versus limp resurfaces, with Democrats advocating a stiff leader and Republicans calling for a limp leader, for obvious reasons. The Roadless Initiative issue (aka the Ted Turner plan) is discussed, with several interesting facts being brought to the attention of the group: (1) 98 percent of the earth’s surface is covered in asphalt; (2) animals that have been seen by man are not wild–by definition–so therefore there is no proof that wild animals have ever existed; (3) The West is full of fat people passing themselves off as outdoorsmen. Thursday April 27th Planning for the upcoming Carolina Clave reaches a fever pitch. The Dueling Daves finally call a truce to their wader argument and begin fighting over how long it will take them to get to the Clave. Fortunately for everyone else, the thread quickly morphs into a YAWTDIYSABT (Yet Another What To Do If You See A Bear Thread). With blatant disregard for the feelings of those who won’t be arriving at the clave until later in the week, Tom Brown posts the Clave Kickoff menu, generating a collective outporing of drool not experienced since Greg Pavlov’s last post. With Wayne Harrison–this year’s Carolina Clave Hat Designer–not around for much of the week, speculation abounds that the Clave hat will be adorned with the familiar Born-Again-ROFFian acronym "WWJD", which of course stands for "What Would Jehrke Do?". We’ll have to await his response to see if these rumors are accurate. Friday April 28th Indian Joe has graciously offered to provide the meat for the Clave Chili (aka Chili con Carnage). Apparently he’ll also be providing the chopped tomatoes, left over from the Clave meal he prepared in October. A discussion of Claves for the Next Millenium (aka 2001) begins, with suggestions for California (are there fish left in California?) and Florida (are you allowed to fish at Disney World?) being offered as suggestions. Unfortunately, yours truly cannot in good faith accept the nomination as Florida Clavemeister because, well, I get *really* seasick standing in a boat and I think Steve Spurrier is Satan. Saturday April 29th Someone asks a question about strike indicators and receives plenty of advice, not the least on-topic of which is that you just gotta see the movie "U-571." By now it has become obvious from the repeated trip reports presented by Waldo and Jeffy that they are trying to fish their brains out this week and next, knowing full well that all fish within 150 miles of Boone will be permanently spooked during the week of May 7th due to increase alcohol and urine content in the water during that time. They also must have seen the weather reports for that week which report scattered Fortenberries. And finally, Dave LaCourse shares with ROFF the fact that "you do not need a prostate to pee straight or have sex." Which begs the question: why even bother to get your prostate checked if you can still do those two things? But seriously everyone, if you’re over 40 don’t forget to Turn-and-Cough and Jiffy-Lube once a year. And that’s the week that was. Until next time, –Steve

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what the hell is wrong with a goddamn normal fillet knife.  an electric lesson <G Another goddamned fillet knife purist ! Probably have a Bastard #2 bamboo fillet knife, eh ? ;{) You need to read the post to understand the context. Now doesn’t that crank you up – tim pulls the 5 second sound bight out of the context of another ng (doesn’t even reference the post or the author) and then compains one has to read the whole post to understand the context! A master of misrepresentation!

Ah, he’s just mad because he’s not getting the response he thought he would.  The whole thing has mutated into a fight about "picking on Texas."  :-) The futile strugglings of a desperate soul…can be fun to watch in the right context.       – Ken — "Complex problems have simple, easy-to-understand wrong answers."                                          -Anon

Response:

After reading Tim quote in context on sci.bio.fisheries, a limitted discussion of what constitutes a natural fishery came up.  One person felt that there wasn’t such a thing because once we include man, it is no longer natural. Dave Fluir gave the following definition: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My own bent, and this is, of course, purely personal bias, is to think of a natural fishery, in the purest sense of that term, as the following:    The exploitation of a fish population sustained solely by natural reproduction with no deliberate attempt at the inflation of    carrying capacity through a) anthropogenic nutrient input or b) introduction of species not enzootic to the waterbody for the    express purpose of increasing fish production. Wow, what a mouthful, eh? Dave (should I put on asbestos, now?) Fluri North Bay, Ontario  Canada

Another person said that that included most of the fisheries in his state, however, the bodies of water are themselves artificial. What makes a natural fishery? What waters do you consider natural fisheries? Willi

Response:

"buttload of small ones"? Careful with that Powlesland bait, Timmy ;^)

You’re right…appreciate the ‘heads-up’… ouch there’s another one… ouch..that’s one too… I worry about a man who thinks a dick in melted sidewalk salt is a homoerotic image. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

[deleted] Now doesn’t that crank you up – tim pulls the 5 second sound bight out of the context of another ng (doesn’t even reference the post or the author) and then compains one has to read the whole post to understand the context! A master of misrepresentation!

You probably complain to Blockbuster that the previews aren’t full length versions either ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

I worry about a man who thinks a dick in melted sidewalk salt is a homoerotic image.

What about someone who ponders putting his there? <g — Charlie…

Response:

Cruelty to animals.  The horse is dead stop beating the poor thing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A great quote there this AM… "a good electric knife and filleting lesson would greatly assist fishery management " Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

[deleted] Ah, he’s just mad because he’s not getting the response he thought he would.  The whole thing has mutated into a fight about "picking on Texas."  :-)

Quite the opposite my man.  Quite the opposite.  But of course, since you only look at the pictures (and in this case only read the subject line) I wouldn’t expect you to know. It was *PROVEN* that you reply without reading the posts earlier on in this thread Janek, you’re pretty much removed from any possibility of an intelligent debate AFAIC. That said, I am extremely tickled and very pleased with the sincere and intelligent followups I have seen to followup here in sci.bio.fisheries (Gee….sci.bio.fisheries…1 solid response based on science there would be worth 1000 based on emotion here) alt.flyfishing and co.general.  I have found a new home away from home in sci.bio.fisheries ! This following (admittedly out of context but standing alone) quote was the only reply I needed to refuel the cells.  I most certainly am not "mad" about the lack of response.  The only lack of response that I’m mad about is the lack of response from the CDOW. "It is true that the animal rights activists are going to attack this sport with vigor in the next few years. It is time a few fishermen break out of the lock-step of C&R and develop campaigns to pre-empt the inevitable" AMEN Brother…. To Catch is Human, to eat, the *only* possible justification To Catch. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Another person said that that included most of the fisheries in his state, however, the bodies of water are themselves artificial. What makes a natural fishery? What waters do you consider natural fisheries?

I generally dislike attempting to define the undefinable, but from a "gut feeling" perspective, I have a definition that I for the most part agree with. A fishery with naturally reproducing fish.  I include fisheries which were stocked with hatchery fish, but that are now self- reproducing. Just my $0.02,      - Ken — "I went to the woods to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts  of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when  I came to die, discover that I had not lived." – Henry David Thoreau

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Cruelty to animals. The horse is dead stop beating the poor thing

Don’t like it when C&R’s practiced on you eh ? It’s whopping good fun from this end ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

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[deleted] Ah, he’s just mad because he’s not getting the response he thought he would.  The whole thing has mutated into a fight about "picking on Texas."  :-) Quite the opposite my man.  Quite the opposite.  But of course, since you only look at the pictures (and in this case only read the subject line) I wouldn’t expect you to know. It was *PROVEN* that you reply without reading the posts earlier on in this thread Janek, you’re pretty much removed from any possibility of an intelligent debate AFAIC.

B.M.T.I.A.  I love it when you have to resort to your famous *PROVEN* accolades.  It has been "proven" that you have never "proven" a damn thing here.  Every one of your "facts" has been shown to be nothing more than opinion and emotion and lots of people have taken you to task on these.  Throw away your emotional and ethical arguments and you haven’t a leg to stand on.  (No, not even your third leg after you’ve been playing with salt and sidewalks.)  You are all hot air and have been shown as such.  There are many people here willing to hold intelligent discussions, unfortunately you are not one of them. AMEN Brother….

These really are your true colors.  You are on a crusade.  Just like the other loons who stand on street corners and shout insults and tell us all to "repent your evil ways."  As with the other loons, there is no room for reason in your mind.  You’ve never pondered a single thing any other person has said here dispite many well thought out arguments by a great many intelligent people.  It must be sad to live inside such a tiny inflexible mind. Happy Friday,      - Ken — "I went to the woods to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts  of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when  I came to die, discover that I had not lived." – Henry David Thoreau

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what the hell is wrong with a goddamn normal fillet knife.  an electric lesson <G Another goddamned fillet knife purist ! Probably have a Bastard #2 bamboo fillet knife, eh ?

naw…. don’t like the glue lines and they always come with a wierd bend to them. <G chris

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[snipped] …the need to harvest a buttload of small ones from time to time

"buttload of small ones"? Careful with that Powlesland bait, Timmy ;^)

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what the hell is wrong with a goddamn normal fillet knife.  an electric lesson <G Another goddamned fillet knife purist ! Probably have a Bastard #2 bamboo fillet knife, eh ? ;{) You need to read the post to understand the context.

Now doesn’t that crank you up – tim pulls the 5 second sound bight out of the context of another ng (doesn’t even reference the post or the author) and then compains one has to read the whole post to understand the context! A master of misrepresentation! RalphH

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To Catch is Human, to eat, the *only* possible justification To Catch.

The need to justify is an attribute of guilt. — Charlie…

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Couldn’t care less about being baited by you. Unless your a member of an Animal Rights Group. Are you?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cruelty to animals. The horse is dead stop beating the poor thing Don’t like it when C&R’s practiced on you eh ? It’s whopping good fun from this end ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

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I’m sorry everybody, but someone’s going to do it anyway.  So it might as well be me… "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. I *WOULD* vote to  make C&R illegal." – Tim Walker Do a DejaNews search if you want to see the context, but it doesn’t matter he meant exactly what he said.        - Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Couldn’t care less about being baited by you. Unless your a member of an Animal Rights Group. Are you? Cruelty to animals. The horse is dead stop beating the poor thing Don’t like it when C&R’s practiced on you eh ? It’s whopping good fun from this end ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer

– "I went to the woods to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts  of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when  I came to die, discover that I had not lived." – Henry David Thoreau

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Couldn’t care less about being baited by you. Unless your a member of an Animal Rights Group. Are you?

Yes, I am a member of the human race. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

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A great quote there this AM… "a good electric knife and filleting lesson would greatly assist fishery management " Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

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Ah. I can think of no other two words which would inspire so much daydreaming, except maybe ‘beaver’ instead of ‘trout’.

You’d love driving around N GA, TN and NC. "Trout ponds’ are all over the place, they provide the poles and bait your hook too. Your pa,

Uh, don’t think so<g. — Charlie…

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what the hell is wrong with a goddamn normal fillet knife.  an electric lesson <G

Another goddamned fillet knife purist ! Probably have a Bastard #2 bamboo fillet knife, eh ? ;{) You need to read the post to understand the context.  It was discussing the fact of correcting an imbalance in a fishery vis-a-vis predator/prey relationship and the need to harvest a buttload of small ones from time to time and the observation that most anglers probably won’t fool with a 5 inch crappie, though that might be the best thing to be done and an electric fillet knife makes short order of filleting 200 bluegills. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

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[deleted] Your pa, Uh, don’t think so<g.

You’re right…. I meant to type "Your bitch," — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

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You misspelled ‘trout pond’<g.

Ah. I can think of no other two words which would inspire so much daydreaming, except maybe ‘beaver’ instead of ‘trout’. Your pa, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

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A great quote there this AM… "a good electric knife and filleting lesson would greatly assist fishery management "

what the hell is wrong with a goddamn normal fillet knife.  an electric lesson <G chris

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A great quote there this AM… "a good electric knife and filleting lesson would greatly assist fishery management "

You misspelled ‘trout pond’<g. — Charlie…

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Question:

Can someone direct me to a good web site for information on fishing the many trout streams in PA and NY states?  Thanks.

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Can someone direct me to a good web site for information on fishing the many trout streams in PA and NY states?  Thanks.

Steve, This site has some good info and up to date stream reports posted by anglers. http://www.paflyfish.easetech.com/ Tim

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Can someone direct me to a good web site for information on fishing the many trout streams in PA and NY states?  Thanks.

Steve My site uner ‘Links’ – ‘Destinations’ has about ten links to PA, ME, and VT flyfishing information sites. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

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Question:

______ The prettiest Western Dry Fly in all the world.  I don’t know about Eastern opinions on this but  I suppose it would have to be the Light Cahill or Hendrickson?  I love them all, really.  I love dry flies, period. I wish some of you would start submitting your signature fly to our "Flies of the World" web site listed below.  See Mike Connor’s examples.  Don’t any of you eastern boys know how to tie a dry fly for christ sake?  You guys have only one good fly tier their, I think and his name is George Harvey.  I thought he taught fly tying out that way in Pennsylvania and about?  You DO know what a dry fly is in North Carolina now, don’t you boys?  They sure don’t, in Arkansas. ; ) George *twitch —

Question:

Hey: I’m interested in doing some flyfishing in the Florida Keys next April. Can anybody give me recommendations on guides in that area for tapon and bonefish?  This is my first trip.

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Hey: I’m interested in doing some flyfishing in the Florida Keys next April. Can anybody give me recommendations on guides in that area for tapon and bonefish?  This is my first trip.

Hi Brian, This is a good time to book a guide for next spring. April/May/June is prime time. All the top guides have tackle for the day(s) you are with them. If you want to wade or rent a boat on your own then you need some tackle. I would call West and if he doesn’t have any days left he will know some other high quality guides in the Keys. He is considered in the top of his field and is also lots of fun to fish with. You can see him in the Billy Pate Tarpon fishing videos. As you can tell he is one of my heros.  . Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

Will be traveling in the vicinity of Greeneville, TN the 3rd week of June.  Will be introducing by father-in-law to fly fishing and would appreciate some help in locating areas that might be productive.  We’ll be visiting from California and would be happy to sway info on local hot spots. Thanks in advance.

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TRY GATLINBURG AREA FOR SOME GREAT FLY FISHIND—GREENBRIAR AREA …CADES COVE….ELKMONT….HAD SOME GREAT HATCHES…GOOD FISHING!!!!!

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Yes, Elkmont is a good spot.  Caught some nice browns there on a delta wing caddis, with olive body.  Nice fish!   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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Question:

I’d like to hear if others have received replacements from Cortland (or your local fly shops).  Has the problem been fixed? (I just bought a Lazer 4wt.) Your thoughts will be appreciated. TK

My Lazerline began cracking after about 3 or 4 uses. Cortland  will replace cracked lines (through the shop from which it was purchased, if you prefer, and if they have them in stock, this way is quickest).  However, although Cortland has claimed to have fixed the problem, the manager of the local fly shop from which my line was purchased claims that 1 in 3 replacement lines still come back prematurely cracked.  I will continue to have mine replaced as long as I can get an immediate replacement at Cortland’s expense, but I’ll never purchase another Lazerline. GPS

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I also have difficulty with laserline cracking.  I had a 4 wt., 7 wt., 9wt. all crack after very little fishing time.  I thought it was my fault for storage.  I asked at the fly shop where I bought them and he said there had been only one other complaint.  All in all I would say the line cracked in about 1/2 the time I usually get out of a fly line. FlyphishR

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Had my laserline crack within the first year, also (they used to call it Lasterline, but had to change the name). My vote’s for SA SUPREME, if you can trust a line that doesn’t cost you $50! Have a Triangle taper on a reel I don’t use much…it did not revolutionize the way I fish, and am not sure that I can roll cast any better on it than any other line, although maybe it shines on LONG roll casts, something I am not prone to attempt… Lon C. Diehl

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My 8wt Laserline fractured at the point where the line came off the reel after my average cast. The break in the coating was clean and the core remained intact.  After a call to Courtland a replacement quickly arrived. The new line (2nd season now) seems better. HH — Harrison Hubard,Jr. 202 Berkshire Rd Richmond,Va 23221

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I was recently informed by a fellow fly fisherman that lazerline in his experience began to crack quite prematurely. As i am considering updating my lines this year I would appreciate any info. Also what about  Lee Wulfs triangle taper?comments? cheers — gp

Your fellow fly fisherman put you on the right track!  The Cortland444-lazerline does not hold up.  Right away you can tell something is wrong with line- it feels rough through the rod guides- and decreases over all casting accuracy at distances over twenty-five feet of so.  Cracking makes itself present after just a few months of normal use.                      *  As You Marinate your Sean R Borgerson   *  Melon With My Words…        Vancouver, WA.    *  …I’ll Be Matching the                    *  Hatch On The River Of                    *  Choice        

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yes I have had that problem too.  I’m just going to wait and go back to a SA mastery 3.  Which I feel casts much better anyway.  

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I was recently informed by a fellow fly fisherman that lazerline in his experience began to crack quite prematurely. As i am considering updating my lines this year I would appreciate any info. Also what about  Lee Wulfs triangle taper?comments? cheers — gp

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I have had extreme cracking problems with my 3 wt lazerline.  They have been nice enough to replace it THREE times, but it is a real pain waiting.

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Mt dad sent his Laser lines back to Cortland and they replaced them for free.  Said that early models had plastic compound problems.  Send ‘em back, bet yu get afree one (oh yeah, you’ll owe me a beer for the advice!)

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I was recently informed by a fellow fly fisherman that lazerline in his experience began to crack quite prematurely. As i am considering updating my lines this year I would appreciate any info. Also what about  Lee Wulfs triangle taper?comments?

I had a 6wt. lazer that I REALLY liked…after about 8 months it began cracking and was soon un-fishable.  I didn’t think too much of it and replaced it with another brand (simply because I was on a trip at the time and that’s all I could get…I would have prefered another Lazer).  I had no idea others were experiencing the same problem and never thought of sending it back to be replaced   I’d like to hear if others have received replacements from Cortland (or your local fly shops).  Has the problem been fixed? (I just bought a Lazer 4wt.) Your thoughts will be appreciated. TK

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writes: I have had extreme cracking problems with my 3 wt lazerline.  They have been nice enough to replace it THREE times, but it is a real pain waiting.

Is anyone having this problem with Cortland’s other lines?  Incidently, I have heard about this problem from guides I fish with.

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I just purchased a Lazer Line from my local shop. The owner convinced me that it was his favorite line because it was supple. He said the Courtland people said they had some trouble with their early lines but had fixed the problem. He said if the line wore out too soon he would replace the line. Richard Warren Raleigh, NC

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