Question:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

        what an infatile post!  don’t you people give a shit about fishing?  what knot do you use when you tie a fly to the end of your little bitty line that is tied to your great big line that goes on your reel that is screwed on to your pole?         and, most importantly, why do you hate america?         tomatoes are red.  red is the color of communism.  you are a communist because you like tomatoes. anthony wayne harrison the third. Aren’t tomatoes really orange and not red? Just like blueberries are really purple. There is no blue food. Perhaps the communists are keeping all the blue food from us.

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There is no blue food.

        yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then!  Perhaps the communists are keeping all the blue food from us.

        i wouldn’t doubt it..  smurfs are damn good, served n’awleens style.  richard has the recipe. wayno

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There is no blue food.    yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then! Perhaps the communists are keeping all the blue food from us.    i wouldn’t doubt it..  smurfs are damn good, served n’awleens style.  richard has the recipe.

Sure do…first, you get some carpet tacks and caulk…. HTH, really I do… R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wayno

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yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then! wayno

Really kinky. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then! wayno Really kinky.

You don’t know the half of it, Frank. Papa Smurf likes to watch. Tim

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yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then! wayno Really kinky.

You don’t know the half of it, Frank. Papa Smurf likes to watch. Tim Did he get any color glossy photos with circles and arrows?

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if it’s the genetically-engineered t’maters, yeah…i invested in that venture and the stock promptly went belly-up…died on the vine, so to speak.  gov’t regs and consumer skepticism slowed it down… jeff (natural born stock killer)

Damned semantics again!  We been eatin genetically engineered maties and taties for a long long time……been feedin ‘em to our genetically engineered wolves too, for that matter. Wolfgang ubermensch sans portfolio

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There is no blue food. yeah, well that’s what *you* think—i don’t guess you’ve ever eaten a smurf, then!

Uhh…   eeewww.    Though this probably falls under the category of "more than you wanted to know", for the edification of the group, I’ll impart this tidbit of disgusting knowledge.   Most rv’s have some sort of solid waste disposal system on board, be it a built in toilet or porta potti.   These are typically deoderized and sanitized by the use of a concentrated blue liquid in the holding tank.   The contents of said tanks then, due to the strong color influence of this chemical, are colloquially referred to as "smurf juice". HTH, Joe F.

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what an infatile post!  don’t you people give a shit about fishing?  what knot do you use when you tie a fly to the end of your little bitty line that is tied to your great big line that goes on your reel that is screwed on to your pole? and, most importantly, why do you hate america? tomatoes are red.  red is the color of communism.  you are a communist because you like tomatoes. anthony wayne harrison the third.

I’ll do my best to get you a quart of that corn likker, as soon a possible good buddy! Op

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. You’re probably thinking of the genetically engineered FLAVR SAVR tomatoes: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/biotech.html That’s the one.

Umm, don’t these fall under the heading of ‘bioengineered foods’ that people want to pass laws to protect themselves from, are boycotting McDonalds in far eastern countries over, and Mugabe just tossed 50,000 tons of relief food out of Zimbabwe because it wasn’t specified to not contain? riverman

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if it’s the genetically-engineered t’maters, yeah…i invested in that venture and the stock promptly went belly-up…died on the vine, so to speak.  gov’t regs and consumer skepticism slowed it down…

That explains why I haven’t seem them. Willi

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. You’re probably thinking of the genetically engineered FLAVR SAVR tomatoes: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/biotech.html

That’s the one. Willi

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

        what an infatile post!  don’t you people give a shit about fishing?  what knot do you use when you tie a fly to the end of your little bitty line that is tied to your great big line that goes on your reel that is screwed on to your pole?         and, most importantly, why do you hate america?         tomatoes are red.  red is the color of communism.  you are a communist because you like tomatoes. anthony wayne harrison the third.

Response:

if it’s the genetically-engineered t’maters, yeah…i invested in that venture and the stock promptly went belly-up…died on the vine, so to speak.  gov’t regs and consumer skepticism slowed it down… jeff (natural born stock killer) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

Perhaps these taste sharper? http://www.artsnflies.com/pages/clousers23.shtml TL MC

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this.

You’re probably thinking of the genetically engineered FLAVR SAVR tomatoes: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/biotech.html — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

Response:

Last night I ate some typical, hard tasteless tomatoes I had gotten from a roundside stand, in hopes that they would be good. I had read, some time ago, about a strain of tomatoes that were developed that would be ripe, juicy and tasty while still being firm enough to ship. Anyone heard anything about what happened with this. Willi

Not too sure if it’s the same thing, but I’ve been getting "vine ripened" tomatoes still on the vine. They say that they are "organically grown", but they do taste good, and arrive at the store in a less than ripe condition.

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Question:

This morning, 4/22, I looked out my window, in Northern New Jersey, and saw a mayfly on the glass.  Spinner, size 14, two tails, light grey/dun underside, heavily segmented abdomen, very small second wings.  These show up on my back door and back windows in small numbers every April.  Any opinions on possible species/genus? Beyond the question of what it was, I wondered where the dickens it came from. The lake is 150 yards away in a straight line from the front door.  And it gets very warm in summer; tosses up a ton of bug life but not mayflys.  There are some small springs about 200 yards away to the rear of the house but I didn’t think they survived the summers.  Now I have visions of a relict population of Brook Trout hiding in the town land behind me. Something to think about until I can go fishing. Glenn GKT

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You don’t give much information except grey underside and two tails.  The only thing I can think of that comes close to a size 14 is Callibaetis americanus This is no guarantee that I’ve identified it correctly but this is the may fly that fits best what you say. George Gehrke "May Days are here"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning, 4/22, I looked out my window, in Northern New Jersey, and saw a mayfly on the glass.  Spinner, size 14, two tails, light grey/dun underside, heavily segmented abdomen, very small second wings.  These show up on my back door and back windows in small numbers every April.  Any opinions on possible species/genus? Beyond the question of what it was, I wondered where the dickens it came from. The lake is 150 yards away in a straight line from the front door.  And it gets very warm in summer; tosses up a ton of bug life but not mayflys.  There are some small springs about 200 yards away to the rear of the house but I didn’t think they survived the summers.  Now I have visions of a relict population of Brook Trout hiding in the town land behind me. Something to think about until I can go fishing. Glenn GKT

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Question:

My 17 year old son and I day tripped into a sub-alpine lake in the sapphires. We hauled in a hobbie cat pontoon boat and went fly-fishing for arctic grayling.  Between the two of us we caught & released about 50 of the little things in about 5 hours of fishing. Basically they hit anything that floated in a 14 or smaller.  most were 10" or so but we caught a few up to 14" and one 16".    lake is at about 8200′ elevation and still ringed with snow on the adjacent north facing slopes (i.e. water is bloody cold) I must have been pre-occupied during my turn on the pontoon- my son tells me there was a black bear taking a drink from the shore line about 100′ from where I was fishing & I didn’t see it. (lake is about 13 acres and I was on the far side under a shale slide.) The grayling do not fight like a trout- they tended to stay down and run- but not with a lot of power.  Unfortunately I only have a 9′  6 wt which is definitely too much rod for these fellas – I think a 4 wt might be more fun–hmm, I wonder what the finance dept would say to that. Sunday I had a little time to kill so I ran up the Blackfoot river (base river in ARRTI) and fished for a few hours- only managed 5 or 6 small ‘bows of about 10".  the water is still high, fast and turbid and I was using a small wulff pattern.  I think a "big ugly" would be better. Looks like a really dry year coming- I’m worried about water levels in the major streams/rivers.

Response:

Rivers are below normal and the snowpack is basically gone. We need timely rains if the rivers are going to stay cool enough for trout. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looks like a really dry year coming- I’m worried about water levels in the major streams/rivers.

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Question:

See the photo series in alt.flyfishing. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Need some help with egg flies.   Any ideas.  They aren’t that bad, but I would like to tighten them up a bit

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Need some help with egg flies.   Any ideas.  They aren’t that bad, but I would like to tighten them up a bit

The key to any good egg pattern is to drain the egg of the embryo. I accomplish this by poking the "fat" end with a good sized needle. Then I sit the egg vertically in a large shot glass and poke the other end from the top. What this accomplishes is to eliminate the naturally occuring vacumn, you’ll be surprised how fast the embryonic contents drain into the glass. I than take the contents of the glass, position it perfectly, and drain them down my throat in a quick, but practised motion. I than follow (optional) with a good hearty shot of gin. I am now ready to tie some eggs. I wish I could help you here…what few I have tied, are also loose. –Wataugan "burp" Walt

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Use kevlar thread.  Make your wraps tight, one on top of the other.  make several more wraps around the base of the material, between the shank and the hank of yarn. Pete C

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Question:

#but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse #Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where #he stands, #he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. somebody said back there a bit–if it’s true, why isn’t Jesse insisting that the coons stay in their own part of town as he did back in the good old days? Helms changes, like everybody whose standards are flexible and who considers himself to be a man of principle but returns to the senate voluntarily.  (and many thinking folks hope he comes to his senses.) As for Gierach, he’s an excellent stylist with an ironic wit, and it’s all fiction mind you, which appellation our BB seems to aspire to much more recently. "Strait-laced" as Shakespeare (or should I say the Earl of Oxford?) had it–the pompous Malvolio of Twelfth Night made a fool of himself by coming around in the opposite look, the dandified and contrived "cross-gartered" style. . .in other words, he went out as what he wasn’t, and was laughed off the creek for it.  Went insane, if I remember correctly.  And Shakespeare wrote about what he wasn’t for a buck, collected "such rascal counters" happily; he would have signed his name for more if he’d had the chance, I reckon. Dave

Response:

I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

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I met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop… John was

actually very pleasant and even though he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. … he seemed like a pretty decent guy,besides being a great writer! Hey Skilch, you’re right about Gierach. I live "up the road" from John, and bump into him, Mike, and the clan on the high country streams occasionally. I’ve also yakked with him at Mike’s rod shop, and been to John’s fly tying clinics. I don’t know Gierach very well, but I like the guy – and I certainly admire what he’s been able to accomplish in his career. Anybody who can win the Robert Traver Award for excellence in outdoor writing, author thousands of magazine articles, newspapers columns, and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success. Too bad. Regards, Dennis

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[deleted] and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success.

Please. Noone (at least not me) is being critical of either: 1) the fact that john is a nice guy  or 2) that they envy his gifts. If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no need to defend him on those scores. In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I enjoy John Geirach at least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.   I like Ted Lesson’s writing better than Gierach. Again, it has nothing to do with John being a good guy or a clever successful hard-working man.  I am certain that he is all that.  You don’t buy a flyrod or a car for that matter just because the builder is a ‘nice guy’.   I liked James Bashline, who was not a writer, really…but offered me something of value in "Nightfishing for Trout". A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content.  The best thing you could do as a writer is get Nick Lyon’s in your court.  That is power there. The number of sales define the number of awards and some of us are simply critical of the writing itself and are not star struck, nor do we have penis envy.  In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.   To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.   So sue me. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?   To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most do. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be proud of.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Does Gierach still live in Lyons? I spent summers there (I’m an East Coast boy) in the early ’70’s and fished the St. Vrain top to bottom–my grandfather owned the trailer park in the big bend just outside of Lyons (next box up from the park.) I think I trespassed on his property a few times. Dave

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:I enjoy John Geirach at :least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but :they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not :define great writers. You were doing just fine Moe until you said the above which caused me to laugh out loud. You can’t take those darn short stories seriously, you slay me sometimes… TC

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they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.

I gotta wonder what Ernest Hemmingway woulda said about that. Big Two Hearted River for example, is far from simple. Ben

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: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?  

Any idea when he is to return? Or if he will? Kiyu

Response:

I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. I predict with the former.  One problem I see here is that many insist on judging him as a flyfisherman, based on his writings. The only way you can judge him as a flyfisher, is to fly fish with him. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you will. On that basis I find him well worth an evening in the easy chair. Since I haven’t fished with him, I can’t comment on the other. DAO DAO

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If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly

doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. Funny you should bring that up, Dale. I was with John for an hour or so last week, and asked him if he was aware of the dialog about him on the internet. He just chuckled and said, "Yeah,  the guys told me about it. Sounds like those people are pissing away some good fishing time wrangling over nothing." … or words to that effect. He won’t be logging on. He doesn’t own a computer. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you

will. On that basis I find him, well worth an evening in the easy chair.< Precisely.

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If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no needto

defend him on those scores. Your right Moe, I was arguing apples and oranges here. My apologies.  He got someone to publish him, in

my opinion, and the rest is history. Right again, but he didn’t get just "anyone" to publish him. Pruett, Lyons, Simon & Shuster and Stackpole are hardly the kind of publishing houses to invest in ho-hum writers. <  Steve Spinolio is a better writer, inmy book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham … or E. Donnel Thomas I’m not familiar with Spinolio. Is he someone I should be reading. Know where I can find any of his stuff?, but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not

define great writers.  I suspect you may open a real can of worms with that judgement, Moe. A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the

publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content. Maybe, but again, big publishing houses aren’t likely to invest in writers whose work doesn’t sell. As for" quality of content", that’s a pretty subjective matter.   The number of sales define the number of awards… I’m not so sure that’s an accurate statement. Lyons didn’t publish Trout Bum, nor much of Gierach’s other works. And if I’m not mistaken, John won the Traver Award for a fictional piece that appeared in FR & R. nor do we have penis envy.

????Where’d that come from?   In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.  To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.  So sue me. Actually, I’d rather go fishing with you, but If I were to sue-  and win – how much could I get? later DES

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To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most

do. Amen to that. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be

proud of. And to that one, as well. DES

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Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

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I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

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Another follow-up on this thread… Just don’t read or buy the books he has written if you don’t like his writing.  As for me, I like a lot of what John has written. Most of his writing is non-technical, and therefore fine pleasure reading, if I’m into it. While Christmas cleaning btw, I perused through a lot of old Fly Fisherman and Rod and Reel Mags in my collection dating all the way back to the early eighties.  The writer in question (John) has been around for a long time, has "paid his dues," and in a professional sense is worthy of respect even if many people don’t like his work.  No need for debate or slander of the individual on a ng forum. Wayne Fenior Midland, MI – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis

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Tim, I think if I could paraphrase your response–if you’re gonna set up shop as an icon (or let others set you up), you better expect some iconoclasts will come along. It goes with the job. I have to agree…good, not great. Trouble is, good writers don’t usually stay in print 50 years later. And in 100 years, no one remembers who the good writers were. That’s a tribute for great writers, and I don’t think we should start throwing that appelation around lightly. BTW–do you know where these straight-laced, stoic fishermen are. They’re not around here, that’s for damned sure! I don’t think I last an afternoon fishing with one of ‘em! Roger

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I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own.

        (lots of stuff snipped) , but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men.

        let me tell you, jack, that he is also my senior senator, a fact that renders me nauseous, but is presently unavoidable.  and if you think ol jesse wouldn’t sell every goddam inch of hazel creek to the highest bidder in the tree cuttin industry, then you are blind as a bat.  and having read gierach, i can’t believe he would accept such a comparison. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time,

        how much the guy fishes has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of his prose.  which, imho, is very high.  but your apology for him, in the face of timbo’s protestations, is lamentable.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

Is it really you ?  I thought you were dead ? Comparing Gierach to Shakespeare ? Like the guy that painted a happy face on a dairy cows underside. Udderly Silly. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman

I’ve spent enough time around this group the past couple of years to know that most of the laces don’t get any crookeder than the ones you’ll find round here. Nope…not a straight lace in the bunch (I say that with pride, so don’t anyone get offended). Roger

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Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

I would have to disagree on calling much of Shakespeare formulaic or typical. Sure, he may have used some common conventions and story lines adopted from other sources, but if you compare Shakespeare’s King Lear, for example, with contemporary version’s like Nahum Tate’s, Big Bill the Bard’s on a whole new plane. As for Geirach I don’t think the same can be said. I have read and enjoyed his work as light reading over my lunch hour. Or on a camping trip. Groundbreaking? Unconventional? Original? I don’t think so. There is very little that hasn’t been done before by others, and won’t be done again. It’s not even a terribly distinctive voice. This doesn’t make it unpleasant or without value. But I don’t think it’s the kind of stuff posterity is going to elevate into the canon of great works. If you went back 100-200 years and looked at the best selling books…other than the bible, you probably wouldn’t recogize many of them. The reason they were so popular was not that they were original, but rather that they perfectly mimicked the conventions of their day. They appealed to contemporary tastes. That…I think…is what Geirach does. He ain’t writing for the ages. Roger

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Seems to me that how nice a guy a person is, how authentic or otherwise attractive his lifestyle might ain’t got a lot to do with the quality of his writing, and thus the orig. poster just misses the point of some of Gierach’s detractors entirely. Hemmingway, for instance, does not seem to be the kind of guy one would enjoy spending lots of time with, and while through happy circumstances I can afford to fish as much as Gierach (or maybe even more), that don’t make me a writer.         That said, I think that most if not all of Gierach’s detractors miss a point too, and that is that almost no author I know of who has turned out more than just a book or two is able to maintain the same quality of prose over and over and over again. But even then, there are authors who write one great great work and then are either silent or write crap, and others who simply maintain a fairly high level consistently  throughout their careers.         For my money I suspect some of Gierach’s stuff

Question:

Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John        John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

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Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hell in GA I’d skip the neoprene and go for the Gortex.  I would think that the heat would be more of a problem than the cold.  5mm are very very warm, Xmas of 95, I was in a river with 6" of ice and was comfortable.  They’d probably cook you in Dixie!!! jg

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Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)?

I’ve been using 3mm Simms neoprenes for several years now.  They have remained warm and flexible.  Whatever brand you buy, spend a little more than you can afford. Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other?

Pinholes don’t seem to be the main problem, rather leaks at seams, especially when you do a lot of tubing in them. What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor.

3mm keep me good and warm, but early in the season I do wear some Thermax bibs.  During warm season a pair of light thermal pants or silks will help keep you from getting too clammy from sweat.  I got the thinner neoprenes because I figure I can always add extra insulation when it’s cold, but you can’t reduce the insulation of a 5mm wader when it’s hot. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Even in high summer tubing gets cold, because all the heat eventually gets leeched away, no matter what you’re wearing.  I find that I can last about 3-4 hours at a stretch in 50 degree water before I have to get out and warm up and take a leak.  Only problem I’ve had with neoprenes in my tube is some slight leaking as the seams stretch because I sit in the tube, and the slight chaffing on the upper thigh where the neoprene rubs against the material of the tube. Anglerboy

Response:

This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hi John, The 3 mil waders will do everything you want them to down to water temperatures of ~42.  Usually below 42 degrees I have to put some mid weight synthetic longs on underneath them.  Above that I use the lightweight synthetic longs to keep any moisture off my skin and keep it between my longs and the waders.  The 3 mil neoprenes will give you the flexibility  you want and the comfort while float tubing.  Take a llok at the Orvis Hi-back 3mil neoprenes ($225) or the bare bones version the Clearwater neoprenes ($98). If it is usually hot most of the time you are fishing, you should check out the breathable waders.  Orvis makes two models.  The No-Sweat wader for $305 which feature a brushed micro-fiber outer fabric, knee pads, and a floating heel (easier to fit various shoe sizes)on the neoprene foot.  They just came out this year with the Clearwater No-Sweat waders for $165.  They are made out of a tightly woven nylon outer fabric, have the standard type of neoprene foot and no knee pads.  Not quite as durable as the premium No-Sweats, but covered with the same guarantee (4 years) and about 1/2 the price of other breathable waders.  Keep in mind that the breathable waders offer no insulation of their own and they don’t stretch.  As long as you layer accordingly underneath for colder weather they are fine, and nothing is more comfortable on a hot day.                          Hope this helps,                                  Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John       John Carney         Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

Hi John, The 3mm neoprene is the standard in the industry with 5mm being more durable, warmer and less flexible. For serious float-tubers, 5mm will hold up longer. Gor-Tex is coming on very strong, as this will be the year of the breathable Gor-Tex wader. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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I have been fishing with Orvis Clearwater Gortex waders this year in Minnesota.  Yesterday I went out and it was 15 degrees.  I wore my waders with fleece pants and long underwear.  It was toasty.  In the summer I know they will be a thosand times more comfortable than the 2mm neoprenes I had before. Mike H

Response:

To this thread specifically. I have used Body Glove 5mm’s for the last 8 years. Got some cheap Hodgman 3mm’s for Christmas.   Wished I’d of had the 5mm’s on saturday.  Toes got cold for the first time in 8 years.  They were dry, but cold. Summer heat, the 3s’ll be a godsend. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

What would the readers recommend for fly patterns.  I am planning to use a floating line with a surface fly for a strike indicator and a midge or scud or brassie for the dropper.  The dropper will be tied to the bend of the surface fly and extend for 1.5 times the depth of the water that I find myself fishing in. What would you recommend for the surface fly/dropper combinations and please include size and color recommendations. Thanks in advance. Dan —  Intel, Corp.  5000 W. Chandler Blvd.  Chandler, AZ  85226

Response:

: What would the readers recommend for fly patterns.  I am planning to use a : floating line with a surface fly for a strike indicator and a midge or scud or : brassie for the dropper.  The dropper will be tied to the bend of the surface : fly and extend for 1.5 times the depth of the water that I find myself fishing : in. : : What would you recommend for the surface fly/dropper combinations and please : include size and color recommendations. If you use a search engine and type "Fly Fishing in Arizona" it should lead you to the home page which is updated (either weekly or monthly) with the latest info on all parts of Arizona. It gives water levels, current conditions, fly patterns, tips for the week, and lots more…great resource.   Good luck and post a trip report. **   Mark Olson           # "In any audience, twenty percent  ** **   Las Vegas Academy    #  minds drift and sixty percent    ** **   Brooks Alumni        #  are actively engaged in sexual   ** **   Class of ‘88         #  fantasies."                      ** **   Member PIEA          #            —Gov. Pete Wilson    **

Response:

Question:

I have been a fly fisherman for years and have always told myself "next week I’m going to start tying my own".  But unforseen occurences and the availability of a few good buddies who are excellent tyers have kept me from it.  Well, now I’m ready, but I would like input on a good "Starter Kit".  Something I won’t have to replace quickly, but one that is also fairly easy to start using. Thanks in advance.

Response:

I have been a fly fisherman for years and have always told myself "next week I’m going to start tying my own".  But unforseen occurences and the availability of a few good buddies who are excellent tyers have kept me from it.  Well, now I’m ready, but I would like input on a good "Starter Kit".  Something I won’t have to replace quickly, but one that is also fairly easy to start using.

You might want to drop in on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying then. The general consensus there is that most beginners kits are not very good and that you’re better off buying only the necessary, but of decent quality, picking a few patterns that you’d like to tie, and then buying the materials necessary to tie them.  Come on over to rofft and we’ll give some specific recommendations on vices other tools, and some good patterns to start with. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been a fly fisherman for years and have always told myself "next week I’m going to start tying my own".  But unforseen occurences and the availability of a few good buddies who are excellent tyers have kept me from it.  Well, now I’m ready, but I would like input on a good "Starter Kit".  Something I won’t have to replace quickly, but one that is also fairly easy to start using. You might want to drop in on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying then. The general consensus there is that most beginners kits are not very good and that you’re better off buying only the necessary, but of decent quality, picking a few patterns that you’d like to tie, and then buying the materials necessary to tie them.  Come on over to rofft and we’ll give some specific recommendations on vices other tools, and some good patterns to start with. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

I started out with a simple kit from Bass Pro shops for 35.00 I have since added the type of materials that I want to use to tie flys. It’s very addicting!!! Be careful…  My wife dosen’t know if I like tying the lures or actually using them.  Get a decent book from the library that shows you the recipe for the particular flies you want to tie. Then go from there..  Happy Fishing Sandman

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Question:

Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing? Do you wear socks inside your waders (full size, and/or stocking)?  When you wet wade, do you wear socks?  What kind?  When you go steelheading, do you wear several pairs? I have NOT been wearing socks, and my wife complains that my feet smell worse than any fish would…so I might as well bring some bodies home.  It smells like there are dead bodies in my waders. Incidentally, suppose your waders leak (like mine).  Do you still wear socks? What color? — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

Response:

Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing? Do you wear socks inside your waders (full size, and/or stocking)?  When you wet wade, do you wear socks?  What kind?  When you go steelheading, do you wear several pairs?

Of course, how else do you keep your pants from riding up when you put your waders on?

Response:

Polar Fleece type socks in stockingfoot waders are the best I have found so far. Ken..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing?

Response:

James Foster writes: Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing?

..Yes, Do you wear socks inside your waders (full size, and/or stocking)?

…Yes When you wet wade, do you wear socks?

..Starting to sound like you have a sock fetish..  When you go steelheading, do you wear several pairs?

..No, just one THICK pair..I only wear several pairs of socks, when I play "strip poker".. I have NOT been wearing socks, and my wife complains that my feet

smell worse than any fish would…so I might as well bring some bodies home.  It smells like there are dead bodies in my waders. …[CENSORED!!!] Incidentally, suppose your waders leak (like mine).  Do you still wear socks?

..No, I usually get off my lazy ass and patch my waders…and keep my feet dry!!! What color?

…Black fish net…the real fine mesh..for catch and release only!

Response:

Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing?

You’re absolutely correct: that is a *really* stupid question! ;^) Do you wear socks inside your waders (full size, and/or stocking)?

Of course – if for no other reason that getting my feet into neoprene waders would be even tougher without socks… When you  wet wade, do you wear socks?  What kind?  

Depends on where I’m wet wading: if I’m rock hopping I’ll wear felt-soled boots with socks. If I’m wading off a beach, sneakers and no socks… When you go steelheading, do you wear several pairs?

Well, it’s been about 23 years since I did any serious steelheading (I moved away from the Olympic Penninsula and we don’t have steel head in New England) but if you’re referring to cold water fishing, you bet I wear socks in my neoprene waders! I have NOT been wearing socks, and my wife complains that my feet smell worse than any fish would…so I might as well bring some bodies home.  It smells like there are dead bodies in my waders.

Ugh! Sounds disgustin’ to me! Your wife has my deepest pity! Incidentally, suppose your waders leak (like mine).  Do you still wear socks?

I fix the leaks, of course! What color?

Moving from *really* stupid to sublime, eh? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.     Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus          Maynard, Massachusetts   < <       Charter Member of Curmudgeons Unlimited        < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing?

I always take a single rogue sock along in my vest and put it on my hand as a puppet when I have a flyfishing dillema or need someone too talk to. "Hi Mr. Hand, What should I tie on…?" "Put me back in your pocket you idiot". TimW

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(James Foster) writes: Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing? Do you wear socks inside your waders (full size, and/or stocking)?  When you wet wade, do you wear socks?  What kind?  When you go steelheading, do you wear several pairs? I have NOT been wearing socks, and my wife complains that my feet smell worse than any fish would…so I might as well bring some bodies home.  It smells like there are dead bodies in my waders. Incidentally, suppose your waders leak (like mine).  Do you still wear socks? What color?

It’s a good idea to wear socks inside of waders to keep comfortable.  I usually use either wool or wool/polypro blend.  The wool keeps the sock from compacting and give a bit of cushioning, plus it still keeps your feet warm when it gets wet.  Even if your waders don’t leak, any water you get it your waders will end up in your feet. For instance from a slip or poor depth perception.  The only other socks I know of that will perform similarly are made from polartech.  Stay away from cotton socks as they will hold the water and get clammy and cold. Be careful not to put so much bulk around your feet that they constrict the blood flow, or your feet will freeze.   You should always be able to move your toes a little inside of your socks, waders, and boots.  Get larger boots if needed. I also use socks when wet wading mostly because my wading boots would fall off my feet if I didn’t. Also it’s a lot easier to wash the socks than it is to wash the waders and with the socks you shouldn’t get that ugly smell in your waders.                                  Good fishing,                                       Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

I think it was Haig-Brown in "A River Never Sleeps" that gave some sage advice for socks and wading when you have hiked to your fishing. 1) wear wool socks and take a dry pair 2) if you fall in and ship water, wring out the socks and dump the water out of your boots, but put the wet socks back on 3) at the end of the day, put the dry socks on and hike out reasoning being that it is impossible to get all the water out of the boots and you’d only end up getting your spare socks wet. And of course, you have those puppets. TimW

Response:

Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing? I always take a single rogue sock along in my vest and put it on my hand as a puppet when I have a flyfishing dillema or need someone too talk to. "Hi Mr. Hand, What should I tie on…?" "Put me back in your pocket you idiot".

Last summer I went out fishing on one of the hottest days of the year.  I was heading over to another section of the stream when I saw steam coming from under the hood of my car.  I had blown a radiator hose.  I coasted down the hill to the stream.  I didn’t have and duct tape in the car so I removed one of my socks and wrapped up the hose with it then filled the radiator from the stream.  I was able to limp about five miles to the nearest gas station where I bought some radiator hose tape.   — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing? I always take a single rogue sock along in my vest and put it on my hand as a puppet when I have a flyfishing dillema or need someone too talk to. "Hi Mr. Hand, What should I tie on…?" "Put me back in your pocket you idiot". Tim

Of all the entries I’ve read from you, this is the one I believe most…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing? I always take a single rogue sock along in my vest and put it on my hand as a puppet when I have a flyfishing dillema or need someone too talk to. "Hi Mr. Hand, What should I tie on…?" "Put me back in your pocket you idiot". Tim Of all the entries I’ve read from you, this is the one I believe most…

Thanks, but I didn’t post it. Mr. Hand did.   TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing? I always take a single rogue sock along in my vest and put it on my hand as a puppet when I have a flyfishing dillema or need someone too talk to. "Hi Mr. Hand, What should I tie on…?" "Put me back in your pocket you idiot". Last summer I went out fishing on one of the hottest days of the year.  I was heading over to another section of the stream when I saw steam coming from under the hood of my car.  I had blown a radiator hose.  I coasted down the hill to the stream.  I didn’t have and duct tape in the car so I removed one of my socks and wrapped up the hose with it then filled the radiator from the stream.  I was able to limp about five miles to the nearest gas station where I bought some radiator hose tape.

,and put the sock back on. ouch. TimW

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My Simms KBS waders kept migrating into my boots, pulling the crotch to my knees and stretching the suspenders to the breaking point.   Watching me step over logs in this configuration left fishing partners incapacitated with laughter.  I switched from wool socks to polyester fleece (Polartech, Polar Fleece, etc.) because they wash and dry easier, and doggoned if those waders didn’t stay put!  Apparently the wool offers a lot more friction when walking than the fleece.   Whatever the reason I don’t do much knee-walking anymore… –Buddy

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Do they stink so bad that, on a slow day, you could dip your feet directly in the water to stun a few fish to the surface (assuming you’re a meat fisherman). This could be as effective as explosives and not nearly as noisy! Tom BTW, if this was a serious inquiry seeking a serious answer: I always wear two pairs of socks. A thin inner liner to draw moisture away from the skin (like Capilene from Patagoina) and then an insulating sock whose thickness is determined by water temperature. To get rid of the stink in your waders, turn them inside out and brush on a diluted bleach/water solution. This should kill whatever has taken up residence there (provided they aren’t so old as to be dissolved by the bleach!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a really stupid question: do you wear sockes when fishing? Do you wear socks inside your waders (full size, and/or stocking)?  When you wet wade, do you wear socks?  What kind?  When you go steelheading, do you wear several pairs? I have NOT been wearing socks, and my wife complains that my feet smell worse than any fish would…so I might as well bring some bodies home.  It smells like there are dead bodies in my waders. Incidentally, suppose your waders leak (like mine).  Do you still wear socks? What color?

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Question:

Have only fished state parks one of which is Montauk which is the beginning of the current river, also have fished outside the park in the current without much success for the limited time involved.  Look into Crane Creek.

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Where is the 160 acre lake near Montauk Park?

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There are a couple of great spots along the Meremac River.  The first one is just down river from the Meremac Springs State Park to the Dry Fork. The water is clear and cold as a result to the spring.  I caught the nicest brown trout last fall (18").  Caught it on a 4 weight rod with 6x tippet.  The next section is a little further down river at an access point called Cardiac Hill.  You will understand why it is named that when you spend a day on the river and try and make your way back up to the car.  You need to get a map from the conservation department.  It is very difficult to find but well worth it.  Another good spot south of St. James from I-44 is a place called "Windrush".  Privately owned and stocked.  You can pay a flat rate and release or pay by the pound.  The owners limit the stream to 15 or so a day. You need to make a reservation before you show up.  Enjoy fishing and let me know other spots you come across.

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 Any Missouri flyrod fishermen here?  I would like to talk with fly fishers who frequent the Meramec,Current,or any other small Missouri streams in search of trout, smallmouth, or largemouth.                                          Thank you

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Path:

monsanto.com!newspump.wustl.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!travel!don.wortmann Distribution: world Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: TRAVEL ONLINE / ST. LOUIS ONLINE – (314) 561-4956 Lines: 4  Any Missouri flyrod fishermen here?  I would like to talk with fly fishers who frequent the Meramec,Current,or any other small Missouri streams in search of trout, smallmouth, or largemouth.                                          Thank you

One of the things I like about Missouri is the quality hunting AND fishing.  I like to go to the trophy area downstream of Montauk State Park as well as the pay-as-you-go fly only areas within the park.  Drifting jigs & wooly worms seems to one of the tickets to success.  Still kinda new at fly fishing but I should get more practice at the 160 ac. lake nearby!  Where do you go in MO? Denis Boyle

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