Question:
I managed a nasty face plant on that trip because I stood up, took a step and snagged my fin on the oar. Don’t forget to get those fins off before you stand up. They call me grace. snip- BTW I lost a fin (also borrowed) when the bottom muck pulled – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it off while I was trying to stand. Use straps.
Response:
Thanks for the input, chaps, much appreciated. Confirmed much of what I thought. Another Question … Do you drift rivers in pairs? For safety as well as convenience. I’m thinking about car relays, like we do for the raft, i.e drop a vehicle (usually after depositing the raft at put in) at a takeout. I suppose its possible some pontoons would be light enough to carry some way (not that I’ve seen any here yet). Steve BTW: Ryan, I don’t need no flippers, oars or other props to do a face plant. 
Response:
I rented a pontoon boat this summer and floated my favorite river. The Yakima river in central Washington is a "large river" to me (in most places I cannot stand on one bank and cast across to the other…). The water for the most part, and depending on the time of year, is calm. There are a few stretches of heavy ripples, but they only stretch for approximately 50 yards or so. It’s easy enough to bear down and get past them. Prior to floating the river on the pontoon boat, I was always dependant upon a guide, and their boat, to fish this river effectively. Wading access is limited by steep and rocky banks in most areas. Since I’ve floated the river several times with a guide, I’m comfortable enough to know where the good spots are and I’m efficient enough to get to them on a pontoon boat. When I pontoon drifted the river, I tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to fish as I drifted as opposed to drifting from location to location. It’s difficult to successfully consider your position on the river, hold a rod, worry about fly lines and keep the oars pointed in the right direction all at once. Not a pretty site and not a stress free afternoon. My recommendation would be: 1) absolutely try it. 2) don’t wear flippers on the river (too hard to control and definately hard to get out of the boat when you get anchored at a good spot). 3) mainly fish once you get to the proper location on the river. 4) don’t worry about fishing while you’re on the move on the boat. I must say that as I reflect on the times that I’ve caught fish on the river, either with a guide or on the pontoon boat, it’s always been a situation where I could have been standing in a foot or two of water. Now I have to go weigh my options: to buy a new 3wt fly rod and reel this winter, or get a new pontoon boat instead… Ryan
Response:
I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner?
I know its possible, because I’ve seen people doing it. When I tried it myself, though, I quickly realized that I wasn’t coordinated enough to control the boat and fish at the same time. Of course, I’ve never been the most graceful person in the world. Kevin
Response:
I have a pontoon boat, and fish rivers and lakes using it. For lake fishing, it is very comfortable to wear flippers to move to boat slowly, hold position, or work slowly over an area. You can move quite quickly over longre distances by using the oars. The boats sit high in the water, and move quite easily. They are responsive and you can fish while using flippers to control the boat. The only down side to the pontoon boats on lakes is that in windy areas like where I live, it sometimes gets too hard to control the boats with flippers. I have used pontoon boats on reasonably fast, waters in the Canadian Rockies. I wear wading boots, and use the oars for controlling direction. I would never wear flippers on a river. Just too dangerous. I do not fish while travelling, but use the boat for access. You drift downstream for a while, stop when you reach good water, and fish. Tim Lysyk
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story). Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift". Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water. In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve
Response:
G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story). Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift". Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water. In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve
Response:
Question:
Tuesday morning found only RW, Bruce and me in camp. At breakfast, we met Kerry Evans a roffer from Colorado. We headed back to the Texas Hole to fish the riffles in front of the first handicap ramp. I started fishing without Bruce directing me — caught nothing. When he came down, he placed me at the side of the main current. On my first cast I was into a nice fish and managed to land a 20 inch bow, again with beautiful colors. After awhile, Bruce moved us upstream to Big Rock Hole and the main current of the river. RW, Bruce and I took some beautiful fish here. We also lost two for every one we landed — the current was quite strong and with iddybiddy hooks it was difficult to land these big fish. One brought me downstream about 50 yards. As I stumbled/waded over the slippery rocks, RW hollered, "Hey, bring us back some chips and salsa and a couple of beers!" I managed to finally net this giant football and in my excitement reviving the fish, my net floated away! I broke for lunch, but the two river maniacs stayed and continued to catch fish. I met them in the flats above the KP after lunch and couldn’t believe that I was catching 20 inch fish in 16 inch deep water! I moved back to the Texas Hole after awhile, and rigged up for some dry fly fishing. I tied on a size 22 Adams parachute (Forty’s SJ fly) and cast to rising fish. I managed to hook a few, but never landed one. RW and Bruce collected me just before dark and we made our way back. I left them at the parking lot and went back to the former Clave Central. It was a lonely dinner and evening with no roffians about. I fell asleep at 7:30 and awoke at 5:30. Apparently I was tired. Happy, but very tired. Dave LaCourse Dave LaCourse
Response:
(snip great report) Apparently I was tired. Happy, but very tired. Dave LaCourse
Now THAT is the way to finish out a road trip! :-) — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!
Response:
Dave, i couldn’t imagine a better day than tuesday. you caught more fish than i ever did in my first few days on that river. it is fun in that current by the big rock – we lost several more each than we landed. steve’s side is real tough because the fish are there, but you’ve only got about ten feet square of reasonable water around you and if the fish leaves the area, your chances are slim. nice also that we all tended to pop out of the fish rather than break off, although our pockets were picked a few times each. the flies are so small, louie thought he broke off the entire rig in a pig once, only to say "wait, i’ve still got one fly… no, maybe i’ve got both… yep, i’ve bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen
Response:
Nice report Dave, thanks. I share your feelings about catching beat up hatchery trout, even though they may be large ones taking tiny flies. That’s what happens when a place becomes popular. Keep all your honey holes a secret or they may turn out to be like the kiddy pool. There is no substitute for wild trout. Ernie
Tuesday morning found only RW, Bruce and me in camp. At breakfast, we met Kerry Evans a roffer from Colorado.
<great trip report snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave LaCourse
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[deleted] There is no substitute for wild trout.
The last week of November found me in a tourist town at the gates of a National Park near where I live. There was a pond and a parking lot. In the parking lot was a large lit sign on a pole which read "Catch Wild Trout". And so I am left to conclude agreement with you on your sentiment Ernie. The one possible exception being the imagination. Your pal, — TimW Halfordian Golfer & Urban Forager It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout. A cash flow runs through it.
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Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Md and Va saltwater licenses are recipocle (sp) — bob D&B Marine http://www.tqci.net/~dbmarine 888-535-BOAT Big Gunpowder Falls River in Maryland has some very nice Browns and Rainbows. Lots of catch and release stretches. There is a good fly shop in Monkton I will be relocating to the Washington, DC area next month and I would love to have any fishing info for the area (including Chesapeake Bay). Bait shops for advice, public fishing areas, tackle choices, where to get a fishing license for Virginia/Maryland (do I need both states and fresh and saltwater?), time of year to catch certain fish. I’ll take anything related please respond via e-mail Barry
I think you will find this helpful… <http://www.gmu.edu/bios/bay/links.htm
Response:
Big Gunpowder Falls River in Maryland has some very nice Browns and Rainbows. Lots of catch and release stretches. There is a good fly shop in Monkton
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I will be relocating to the Washington, DC area next month and I would love to have any fishing info for the area (including Chesapeake Bay). Bait shops for advice, public fishing areas, tackle choices, where to get a fishing license for Virginia/Maryland (do I need both states and fresh and saltwater?), time of year to catch certain fish. I’ll take anything related please respond via e-mail Barry
Response:
Md and Va saltwater licenses are recipocle (sp) — bob D&B Marine http://www.tqci.net/~dbmarine 888-535-BOAT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Big Gunpowder Falls River in Maryland has some very nice Browns and Rainbows. Lots of catch and release stretches. There is a good fly shop in Monkton I will be relocating to the Washington, DC area next month and I would love to have any fishing info for the area (including Chesapeake Bay). Bait shops for advice, public fishing areas, tackle choices, where to get a fishing license for Virginia/Maryland (do I need both states and fresh and saltwater?), time of year to catch certain fish. I’ll take anything related please respond via e-mail Barry
Response:
I will be relocating to the Washington, DC area next month and I would love to have any fishing info for the area (including Chesapeake Bay). Bait shops for advice, public fishing areas, tackle choices, where to get a fishing license for Virginia/Maryland (do I need both states and fresh and saltwater?), time of year to catch certain fish. I’ll take anything related please respond via e-mail Barry
Response:
Check out worldwideangler.com or chesapeakeangler.com different name same site. Good luck
I will be relocating to the Washington, DC area next month and I would love to have any fishing info for the area (including Chesapeake Bay). Bait shops for advice, public fishing areas, tackle choices, where to get a fishing license for Virginia/Maryland (do I need both states and fresh and saltwater?), time of year to catch certain fish. I’ll take anything related please respond via e-mail Barry — Flyfish NC Gordon Churchill http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853
Response:
Question:
Dear Biff, In Greek mythology, Narcissus was a young man who looked into a pool of water and fell in love with his own reflection. After that he could love no other. I’m certain I am not telling you anything you don’t already know. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, Fourth Edition(DSM-IV) Personality Disorders, Cluster B Narcissistic Personality Disorder: A pervasive pattern of grandiousity(in fantasy or behavior), lack of empathy, and hypersensitivity to the evaluation of others, beginning by early adulthood, and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following: (1) reacts to criticism with feelings of rage, shame, or humil- iation(even if not expressed) (2) is interpersonally exploitive: takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends (3) has a grandious sense of self-importance, e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be noticed as "special" without appropriate achievement (4) believes that his or her problems are unique and can be understood only by other special people (5) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love (6) has a sense of entitlement: unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment (7) requires constant attention and admiration, e.g. keeps fishing for compliments (8) lack of empathy: inability to recognize and experience how others feel (9) is preoccupied with feelings of envy I hope you get the help you need. Tz p.s. I forgotten more than you know. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – as Sir James would say, I received so much mail I have to answer it like this. My being an active member of the New York Bar, an experienced attorney in contracts, negociation, but to the point, motion practice and oral argument DOES NOT IMPLY that I think I am *better* than anyone, or should be deferred to because it’s an honored status (ask JFK Jr) [laugh now]. It’s simply this–in the law, as in law school, we learn to separate fact from opinion. That sound simple, but it is not. Too many people have never considered this as they write–the stupid America slacker syndrome–bet y’all can play the shit out of Nintendo though) More importantly, I have answered to Judges, in open court (you try it) and of course in chambers. You people who have been criticizing my thought process are way way off the mark. If you had a case, and a lawyer, you wouldn’t want to face me–judges tend to trust my face and manner instantly. So you judgmental peolpe who’ve been sending the hate mail: I have succeeded in life and in representing idividuals and the City of New York for 2 years, that, well, makes your desperate attempts at insulting me, uh, uh–not bother me in the *slighest*. What bothers me is that you fools now have such easy access to all parts of the net–if you knew how utterly pedestrian you sounded, you wouldn’t write a word. Recently, a few poorly educated, though not necessarily stupid people, read some of the things I wrote on this n-g, in particualar some of my gut impressions of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that other group, which, here in NYC, deserves not a mention. I suggested that much of the 12 step stuff was silly–and it is–it juvenile, degrading, and shame producing–but that is only my opinion, and for stating such opinion (keep in mind I’ve been to 400 meeting from Denver to Sarasota), I have received hate mail–hate because it assumes, in a weak–extremely weak (sign of an awful, if any, college education) inductive argument (which here is really redundant) that since I gave the impression that "The Rooms" remind me of those Dianetics people, or a a playground for people about 50 years to old to sit in a sandbox and forever swap stories about who threw up most from the bedspins, or how grateful grateful they are that..well..gratefulness exists. Grow up. And yeah–you can talk about the "rooms"? I can state my view. My opinion was mine alone. A bunch of 12 step [people] took quite an offense, but more importantly an offense to an abstraction that they created by their feeble attempt at inductive logic: "Ian’s eye’s are dark blue, Ian’s brother’s eye’s are dark blue, therefore Ian’s sister has dark blue eyes"; and that’s not so–my sister’s eyes are green. This is *deductive* logic: "Ian has a 2 brother’s and a sister, of the 4 siblings, 2 have eyes that are dark blue, 2 have green eyes–Ian and his older bother have dark blue eye: therefore Ian’s sister and younger brother must have green eyes. So when I speak of my utter digust with the level of what is supposed to pass for linear thinking and coherent logic in this newsgroup, I am talking about the poorly educated people, most of whom know less than zero about bipolar disorder, who fly in here out of the blue, and through their pitiful use of induction, lower the discourse here considerably. We know, that in fact, only about 3 or 4 people come up with any decent incites–okay, maybe 6. But the rest is all "I gained a pound on lithium, help me"; and it’s like, where did Alta Vista, Dejanews, Webcrawler, Lycos, ad nauseum go? Like: when you get a computer, why don’t you learn to use it? It’s all part of the same thread–a soft, marshmallow American populace, poorly educated, largely obese, and utterly unable to use deductive logic; instead, we get touchy-feely Oprah-esque inductive nonsense. In the Spirit of Alexander Hamilton and the competitive prep schools and colleges in New York and New England. Something tells me I’m going to get flamed for being an arrogant elitist–I am. But so are you. Think about it–or can you do that? her ya go! [matches/gasoline] Ian Andrew Schneider
Response:
Fuck you. both my parents are narcissists, and they do quite well. You must love yourself first. As far as your – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dear Biff, In Greek mythology, Narcissus was a young man who looked into a pool of water and fell in love with his own reflection. After that he could love no other. I’m certain I am not telling you anything you don’t already know. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, Fourth Edition(DSM-IV) Personality Disorders, Cluster B Narcissistic Personality Disorder: A pervasive pattern of grandiousity(in fantasy or behavior), lack of empathy, and hypersensitivity to the evaluation of others, beginning by early adulthood, and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following: (1) reacts to criticism with feelings of rage, shame, or humil- iation(even if not expressed)
true (2) is interpersonally exploitive: takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends
totally (3) has a grandious sense of self-importance, e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be noticed as "special" without appropriate achievement
I have achieved, much, motherfucker (4) believes that his or her problems are unique and can be understood only by other special people
true (5) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
yup (6) has a sense of entitlement: unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment
yup (7) requires constant attention and admiration, e.g. keeps fishing for compliments
true (8) lack of empathy: inability to recognize and experience how others feel
WRONG. Fuck you. (9) is preoccupied with feelings of envy
because I’m envied by many–I envy myself sometimes, like yesterday. I hope you get the help you need.
I hope you stop judging individuals; you don’t know me; my cyberpersona and me, that is me me me, is different. I’m too cool in person. Fits your dx, eh? Tz p.s. I forgotten more than you know.
Fuck you. My bet: your a 30 year old virgin. You write and analyze like some ugly faced fuck who’s never gotten laid, much less received the love of someone beautiful. Bet my last cent, your face is ugly, you are not attractive, and therefore you are a bitter person who has only resorted to masturbation for sex. maybe in your next life… Oh, fuck you again, maybe that’ll help you get some. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – as Sir James would say, I received so much mail I have to answer it like this. My being an active member of the New York Bar, an experienced attorney in contracts, negociation, but to the point, motion practice and oral argument DOES NOT IMPLY that I think I am *better* than anyone, or should be deferred to because it’s an honored status (ask JFK Jr) [laugh now]. It’s simply this–in the law, as in law school, we learn to separate fact from opinion. That sound simple, but it is not. Too many people have never considered this as they write–the stupid America slacker syndrome–bet y’all can play the shit out of Nintendo though) More importantly, I have answered to Judges, in open court (you try it) and of course in chambers. You people who have been criticizing my thought process are way way off the mark. If you had a case, and a lawyer, you wouldn’t want to face me–judges tend to trust my face and manner instantly. So you judgmental peolpe who’ve been sending the hate mail: I have succeeded in life and in representing idividuals and the City of New York for 2 years, that, well, makes your desperate attempts at insulting me, uh, uh–not bother me in the *slighest*. What bothers me is that you fools now have such easy access to all parts of the net–if you knew how utterly pedestrian you sounded, you wouldn’t write a word. Recently, a few poorly educated, though not necessarily stupid people, read some of the things I wrote on this n-g, in particualar some of my gut impressions of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that other group, which, here in NYC, deserves not a mention. I suggested that much of the 12 step stuff was silly–and it is–it juvenile, degrading, and shame producing–but that is only my opinion, and for stating such opinion (keep in mind I’ve been to 400 meeting from Denver to Sarasota), I have received hate mail–hate because it assumes, in a weak–extremely weak (sign of an awful, if any, college education) inductive argument (which here is really redundant) that since I gave the impression that "The Rooms" remind me of those Dianetics people, or a a playground for people about 50 years to old to sit in a sandbox and forever swap stories about who threw up most from the bedspins, or how grateful grateful they are that..well..gratefulness exists. Grow up. And yeah–you can talk about the "rooms"? I can state my view. My opinion was mine alone. A bunch of 12 step [people] took quite an offense, but more importantly an offense to an abstraction that they created by their feeble attempt at inductive logic: "Ian’s eye’s are dark blue, Ian’s brother’s eye’s are dark blue, therefore Ian’s sister has dark blue eyes"; and that’s not so–my sister’s eyes are green. This is *deductive* logic: "Ian has a 2 brother’s and a sister, of the 4 siblings, 2 have eyes that are dark blue, 2 have green eyes–Ian and his older bother have dark blue eye: therefore Ian’s sister and younger brother must have green eyes. So when I speak of my utter digust with the level of what is supposed to pass for linear thinking and coherent logic in this newsgroup, I am talking about the poorly educated people, most of whom know less than zero about bipolar disorder, who fly in here out of the blue, and through their pitiful use of induction, lower the discourse here considerably. We know, that in fact, only about 3 or 4 people come up with any decent incites–okay, maybe 6. But the rest is all "I gained a pound on lithium, help me"; and it’s like, where did Alta Vista, Dejanews, Webcrawler, Lycos, ad nauseum go? Like: when you get a computer, why don’t you learn to use it? It’s all part of the same thread–a soft, marshmallow American populace, poorly educated, largely obese, and utterly unable to use deductive logic; instead, we get touchy-feely Oprah-esque inductive nonsense. In the Spirit of Alexander Hamilton and the competitive prep schools and colleges in New York and New England. Something tells me I’m going to get flamed for being an arrogant elitist–I am. But so are you. Think about it–or can you do that? her ya go! [matches/gasoline] Ian Andrew Schneider
Response:
as Sir James would say, I received so much mail I have to answer it like this. My being an active member of the New York Bar, an experienced attorney in contracts, negociation, but to the point, motion practice and oral argument DOES NOT IMPLY that I think I am *better* than anyone, or should be deferred to because it’s an honored status (ask JFK Jr) [laugh now]. It’s simply this–in the law, as in law school, we learn to separate fact from opinion. That sound simple, but it is not. Too many people have never considered this as they write–the stupid America slacker syndrome–bet y’all can play the shit out of Nintendo though) More importantly, I have answered to Judges, in open court (you try it) and of course in chambers. You people who have been criticizing my thought process are way way off the mark. If you had a case, and a lawyer, you wouldn’t want to face me–judges tend to trust my face and manner instantly. So you judgmental peolpe who’ve been sending the hate mail: I have succeeded in life and in representing idividuals and the City of New York for 2 years, that, well, makes your desperate attempts at insulting me, uh, uh–not bother me in the *slighest*. What bothers me is that you fools now have such easy access to all parts of the net–if you knew how utterly pedestrian you sounded, you wouldn’t write a word. Recently, a few poorly educated, though not necessarily stupid people, read some of the things I wrote on this n-g, in particualar some of my gut impressions of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that other group, which, here in NYC, deserves not a mention. I suggested that much of the 12 step stuff was silly–and it is–it juvenile, degrading, and shame producing–but that is only my opinion, and for stating such opinion (keep in mind I’ve been to 400 meeting from Denver to Sarasota), I have received hate mail–hate because it assumes, in a weak–extremely weak (sign of an awful, if any, college education) inductive argument (which here is really redundant) that since I gave the impression that "The Rooms" remind me of those Dianetics people, or a a playground for people about 50 years to old to sit in a sandbox and forever swap stories about who threw up most from the bedspins, or how grateful grateful they are that..well..gratefulness exists. Grow up. And yeah–you can talk about the "rooms"? I can state my view. My opinion was mine alone. A bunch of 12 step [people] took quite an offense, but more importantly an offense to an abstraction that they created by their feeble attempt at inductive logic: "Ian’s eye’s are dark blue, Ian’s brother’s eye’s are dark blue, therefore Ian’s sister has dark blue eyes"; and that’s not so–my sister’s eyes are green. This is *deductive* logic: "Ian has a 2 brother’s and a sister, of the 4 siblings, 2 have eyes that are dark blue, 2 have green eyes–Ian and his older bother have dark blue eye: therefore Ian’s sister and younger brother must have green eyes. So when I speak of my utter digust with the level of what is supposed to pass for linear thinking and coherent logic in this newsgroup, I am talking about the poorly educated people, most of whom know less than zero about bipolar disorder, who fly in here out of the blue, and through their pitiful use of induction, lower the discourse here considerably. We know, that in fact, only about 3 or 4 people come up with any decent incites–okay, maybe 6. But the rest is all "I gained a pound on lithium, help me"; and it’s like, where did Alta Vista, Dejanews, Webcrawler, Lycos, ad nauseum go? Like: when you get a computer, why don’t you learn to use it? It’s all part of the same thread–a soft, marshmallow American populace, poorly educated, largely obese, and utterly unable to use deductive logic; instead, we get touchy-feely Oprah-esque inductive nonsense. In the Spirit of Alexander Hamilton and the competitive prep schools and colleges in New York and New England. Something tells me I’m going to get flamed for being an arrogant elitist–I am. But so are you. Think about it–or can you do that? her ya go! [matches/gasoline] Ian Andrew Schneider
Response:
I’m just saying 2 things here: 1) If it’s a general isue, PLEASE try the search engines 1st as not to make every week here a series f questions that has been askd and answered in 3 threads already this year; 2) DO NOT ASSUME FACTS NOT STATED–this leads to weak inductive reasoning, then misunderstanding, and ultimately bitchy posts like mine whining about the situation. I’ve said my piece, bad punctuation, grammar, spelling and all–I’m just trying to keep the group sharp and lean and thoughtful, not dull, plodding and assuming. I know I’m not so smart; many of the genius types, as Brian, and experienced one as Roy 47 and still Bipolar, John K, and Sir James have far more to offer in their life experience than I. However, this reasonibg by assuming "fill in the facts that aren’t there" must go to keep this a worthy and exciting group. To you I offended–that was not my intention; my intention is stated above. love to all, Ian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -as Sir James would say, I received so much mail I have to answer it like this. My being an active member of the New York Bar, an experienced attorney in contracts, negociation, but to the point, motion practice and oral argument DOES NOT IMPLY that I think I am *better* than anyone, or should be deferred to because it’s an honored status (ask JFK Jr) [laugh now]. It’s simply this–in the law, as in law school, we learn to separate fact from opinion. That sound simple, but it is not. Too many people have never considered this as they write–the stupid America slacker syndrome–bet y’all can play the shit out of Nintendo though) More importantly, I have answered to Judges, in open court (you try it) and of course in chambers. You people who have been criticizing my thought process are way way off the mark. If you had a case, and a lawyer, you wouldn’t want to face me–judges tend to trust my face and manner instantly. So you judgmental peolpe who’ve been sending the hate mail: I have succeeded in life and in representing idividuals and the City of New York for 2 years, that, well, makes your desperate attempts at insulting me, uh, uh–not bother me in the *slighest*. What bothers me is that you fools now have such easy access to all parts of the net–if you knew how utterly pedestrian you sounded, you wouldn’t write a word. Recently, a few poorly educated, though not necessarily stupid people, read some of the things I wrote on this n-g, in particualar some of my gut impressions of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that other group, which, here in NYC, deserves not a mention. I suggested that much of the 12 step stuff was silly–and it is–it juvenile, degrading, and shame producing–but that is only my opinion, and for stating such opinion (keep in mind I’ve been to 400 meeting from Denver to Sarasota), I have received hate mail–hate because it assumes, in a weak–extremely weak (sign of an awful, if any, college education) inductive argument (which here is really redundant) that since I gave the impression that "The Rooms" remind me of those Dianetics people, or a a playground for people about 50 years to old to sit in a sandbox and forever swap stories about who threw up most from the bedspins, or how grateful grateful they are that..well..gratefulness exists. Grow up. And yeah–you can talk about the "rooms"? I can state my view. My opinion was mine alone. A bunch of 12 step [people] took quite an offense, but more importantly an offense to an abstraction that they created by their feeble attempt at inductive logic: "Ian’s eye’s are dark blue, Ian’s brother’s eye’s are dark blue, therefore Ian’s sister has dark blue eyes"; and that’s not so–my sister’s eyes are green. This is *deductive* logic: "Ian has a 2 brother’s and a sister, of the 4 siblings, 2 have eyes that are dark blue, 2 have green eyes–Ian and his older bother have dark blue eye: therefore Ian’s sister and younger brother must have green eyes. So when I speak of my utter digust with the level of what is supposed to pass for linear thinking and coherent logic in this newsgroup, I am talking about the poorly educated people, most of whom know less than zero about bipolar disorder, who fly in here out of the blue, and through their pitiful use of induction, lower the discourse here considerably. We know, that in fact, only about 3 or 4 people come up with any decent incites–okay, maybe 6. But the rest is all "I gained a pound on lithium, help me"; and it’s like, where did Alta Vista, Dejanews, Webcrawler, Lycos, ad nauseum go? Like: when you get a computer, why don’t you learn to use it? It’s all part of the same thread–a soft, marshmallow American populace, poorly educated, largely obese, and utterly unable to use deductive logic; instead, we get touchy-feely Oprah-esque inductive nonsense. In the Spirit of Alexander Hamilton and the competitive prep schools and colleges in New York and New England. Something tells me I’m going to get flamed for being an arrogant elitist–I am. But so are you. Think about it–or can you do that? her ya go! [matches/gasoline] Ian Andrew Schneider
Response:
Regards, Jeff