Question:

eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

I’m sure there are instances of illegal activity such as you described. However, from my experience, I don’t believe that these instances are "commonplace". — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Even if they are, that just means more money needs to be spent on enforcing the current restrictions, not coming up with more.

And sadly the folks breaking the law are the same ones against any additional government enforcement of the law. Thomas Gilg

Response:

  George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.

snipped: Just don’t like cattle on my Federal Lands stealing habitat that belongs to the American People’s wildlife inventories.  Cattle destroy much too much and are a financially bankrupting entity that needs to be removed from all our outdoor recreational lands. George Gehrke

Response:

Just don’t like cattle on my Federal Lands stealing habitat that belongs to the American People’s wildlife inventories.  Cattle destroy much too much and are a financially bankrupting entity that needs to be removed from all our outdoor recreational lands.

The American People’s wildlife inventories are not starving nor do they lack a home. So what I hear you saying is that multiple use on our public lands actually equates to ONLY recreation. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

Brian D. Nelson responded: I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits … I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits … You,  sir, are clueless.

Across the west you’ll find varying compliance with grazing permits. Ditto logging laws and so on. I regularily volunteer to help with multi-agency state/federal fish surveys in eastern Oregon, and it is not uncommon to find cattle grazing well outside their permitted range. In one case we were surveying for bull trout in a remote backcountry area where grazing permits had been eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Some of the agency folks were suppose to followup on that discovery. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book.

Obviously, you’ve never spent any time in eastern Montana where a lot of grazing is done on BLM. I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits in our area come around to check grass conditions, number of cattle, water hole conditions, whether or not the ranchers are pulling there cows off public ground at the designated time, etc., etc., etc. I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits (and they should) for not following the stipulated conditions on their permit. This same scenario (the proper management of grazing permits) happens all across the American West on both National Forest System Lands and Bureau of Land Management lands. You,  sir, are clueless. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

FISHING RELATED POST?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You never met a cattleman, period. —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book. Jon

Response:

I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother?

In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real cattleman, you’d change your tune. George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable to support their families.  Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your bread.  Don’t be such a twit. Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose.

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G.

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Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past?

Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

What’s to do with FISHING anyways?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. What, are you suggesting that both ends are getting screwed by the large corporations in the middle? How un-American! Jon.

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  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother.

christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Response:

|  What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all | livestock that steal their food and habitat. | | Why? | | Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the | Federal Economy. | | Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid | economics. | | George G. | | | | | | | When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | — That’s why I advocate using funds collected from grazing federal lands be used to induce ranchers to use land that has already been converted to farming.  I’d rather convert from arable to grazing land, than forest/prairie to grazing land ! I don’t accept that it’s a choice between cattle & tourists – it’s more of a choice between cattle & migrants. But if we convince ranchers to move East onto arable land, we come closer to both protecting our fragile environments AND providing beef at competitive prices (compared to Argentinean beef). P.S. I remember paying $9 a pound for beef in the UK – beef was one of the most expensive forms of meat. But now I pay $9 a pound for Stilton cheese instead (I paid $3-4 a pound for Stilton in the UK).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. No one said this was going to be easy. George C.

Response:

 What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all livestock that steal their food and habitat. Why? Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the Federal Economy. Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid economics. George G.

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|

| I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of | depopulation in rural communities back east… | | Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was | several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners | were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does | appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider | myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I | also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring | in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an | opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend | (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – | I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend | lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off | (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to | move that land into less intensive uses. | | Thomas Gilg | | | | | Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford | higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will | be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a | huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is | also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches | to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. | | No one said this was going to be easy. | George C. | That may be true, too. The reason my grandfather specialized, was to devote more acres to one crop, to be able to absorb the fixed overheads. But even he had just 500 acres. My father struggled to make money. I refused to take over – it was clear at an early age that it simply COULD NOT be profitable, because of/despite the (socialist) policies of the Common Agricultural Policy, dreamed up by the EU. These same policies were actually intended to protect the family farm. In reality they destroyed it. Q. How far do we go, to protect the family farm? The French have split their farms between 2 (or more) sons for generations. Now they have 100-acre farms that are mere subsistence farming. On an environmental tack – I would prefer to see people grazing farm land that is already farm land & lacking farmers, rather than grazing the more fragile environments often (but not always) found on federal lands. Take the money farm managers pay and use it to encourage farmers to take up the land that has been converted from it’s natural state, into My family were TENANT farmers. After my father & his brother retired, the farm was bought from the landlord & is now actually profitable. Q. HOW – by finding a niche. The current farmers don’t try to compete with the large managed farms. They run an organic farm – even the wool is organic. They don’t need help competing, because they specialisze. I suspect the family-ranchers here in the SW USA will have to also find a niche.

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east…

Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Response:

        www.sfgate.com        Return to regular view In the old West, a tense showdown over federal lands JIM CARLTON, The Wall Street Journal Monday, November 11, 2002

Question:

I figure tying your own pays around $3 per hour.  It has to be a labor of love.

Well, it is.  And flies tied with the local knowledge angle are nearly always better.  Way better. bruce h

Response:

4. Green Butt Skunks (If you want you can collect about 3 dozen of these, from me, by looking at low hanging branchs on the Clackamas in OR)

Hehee…Christian, if you’re interested, I’ll work out a swap with you.  I’ll send you directions to a collection of great flies hanging on the BWO-eating Boxwood, which is right upstream of the Hendrickson-eating Hardwoods and slightly west of the Adams-eating Ash (not to be confused with the Cahill-chewing Conifer) directly across from the…. Zippy Who decorates trees year round regardless of which holiday season is in effect

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On the glow bugs, I was taught my Jeff at Kaufmanns how to do that and my is it easy.  You tie the material on just like you would bar bell eyes and wind your thread as tight as you can underneath the materia, getting it to stand up as straight as you canl.  Cut it to the desired length and presto it is a ball that wraps around the hook…neat as hell…(I guess you would have to see it done, but it is very easy) Padishar Creel — who ties all his own flies except those he buys and those that actually catch fish…<g

Response:

Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies?

I tie my own flies and only fish with flies I tied. No synthetic material on those flies, no CDC, no foam. Bamboo rod built by hand in my garage. Horse hair leaders. No sinkers or strike indicators, ever. Silk line, no plastic allowed. Click-n-pawl reel; disc drag is an abomination. I always put the fish on the reel, no matter how small the fish. Dry flies only, fished upstream, thank you very much. My floatant is wind and wind alone. To do anything less or anything different would be ungentlemanly. I am a gear jingo. –Steve

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<quite right and me too , snipped I am a gear jingo.

BY JOVE ! I think he’s got it ! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

While it’s true that most of the flies I tie wouldn’t win any prizes, the fish don’t seem to give a damn. FiddleAway

Same here.  The fish is the best judge IMHO. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

[snip] To do anything less or anything different would be ungentlemanly. I am a gear jingo.

Please keep this crap off of roff. There are streamer fishermen here who find it offensive. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I tie my own flies and only fish with flies I tied. No synthetic material on those flies, no CDC, no foam. Bamboo rod built by hand in my garage. Horse hair leaders. No sinkers or strike indicators, ever. Silk line, no plastic allowed. Click-n-pawl reel; disc drag is an abomination. I always put the fish on the reel, no matter how small the fish. Dry flies only, fished upstream, thank you very much. My floatant is wind and wind alone. To do anything less or anything different would be ungentlemanly. I am a gear jingo. –Steve

Good one Steve but CDC is natural. Willi

Response:

Good one Steve but CDC is natural.

Regardless. Clearly you are no gentleman –Steve

Response:

I have tied about 200 flies for the SJ in January and they’ll all fit easily in one film container  Everything for that river is easy to tie except the tiny dries, which I usually buy.  $1.50 for a size 24 single adult midge seems like a bargain.  $1.50 for a UFO on the other hand… bruce h

Response:

when i travel, i buy locally tied flies to support local tiers and also when i see patterns i don’t know that turn my crank…but i love to tie and i tie maybe 75-80% of my flies…a few of them I even tie well. Eugene Knapik Toronto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have tied about 200 flies for the SJ in January and they’ll all fit easily in one film container  Everything for that river is easy to tie except the tiny dries, which I usually buy.  $1.50 for a size 24 single adult midge seems like a bargain.  $1.50 for a UFO on the other hand… bruce h

Response:

Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies?

Common flies (e.g. wooly buggers, royal coachmen) can be purchased on eBay or from gofishin.com for around 50 cents each. More unusual ones go as high as 75 cents.  The same White Wulffs I paid $2.75 each for at a fly shop were 75 cents on eBay. Frogs, mice, crabs, big streamers are a little more (around $1.25). I figure tying your own pays around $3 per hour.  It has to be a labor of love. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)

Response:

Bruiser– I’m thinking of getting into tying  just save a little on foam humpies, foam black ants  and midges. Your note sounds as if midges {24} are difficult and you perfer to buy.  If I am reading you right–why are midges harder to tie if you use some type of  magnifier?Indian Joe

Response:

Bruiser– I’m thinking of getting into tying  just save a little on foam humpies, foam black ants  and midges. Your note sounds as if midges {24} are difficult and you perfer to buy.  If I am reading you right–why are midges harder to tie if you use some type of  magnifier?Indian Joe

When tying the same pattern, small flies are much more difficult, IMO. There is very little room on the shank of the hook and a very light touch is needed. It isn’t just seeing what you are doing. Your fingers are VERY large when tying a size 24 fly. Willi

Response:

I tie my own flies and only fish with flies I tied. … … To do anything less or anything different would be ungentlemanly. I am a gear jingo.

Steve, I have some cork, a natural product, should you ever run out. FiddleAway

Response:

IJ,  What I meant was, I buy the tiny dries (except maybe comparadun and griffiths) and tie all the nymphs and emergers, which are super easy once you get the hang of it.  Yes I use magnification. The little dries, like tiny parachute adams, bwo parachute, and single adult midge patterns are impossible for me. bruce h

Response:

While it’s true that most of the flies I tie wouldn’t win any prizes, the fish don’t seem to give a damn. FiddleAway

true with me as well…I don’t catch many fish whether they’re my own or store bought!

Response:

Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies?

I do both. I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

I’m not sure of your point (or question).  The only way to get better is practice, but if you don’t want to get better (or even tie, and there’s nothing wrong with either), I see nothing "wrong" with buying. If you only use a few flies of "quite (a) few..patterns," you’re probably better off cost-wise in buying them, esp. if they are patterns that utilize the more-expensive materials.  IMO, tying is more a related "hobby" as opposed to a cost-saving measure (there are a few exceptions).  Plus, it gives you a good, relatively inexpensive excuse to frequent fly shops in that you truly are buying essential FF’ing items – whether you buy ‘em or tie ‘em, you gotta have ‘em. TC, R

Response:

Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

While it’s true that most of the flies I tie wouldn’t win any prizes, the fish don’t seem to give a damn. FiddleAway

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I tie all my flies except in these situations: 1. I do not have the materials ( I have been collecting alot of material so this does not happen often ) 2. I have never tied that fly, but hear it’s the ‘go to’ fly for my next fishing adventure. I’ll buy one to copy. 3. Egg patterns ( I have not figured out glo-bugs and I’m not pouring plastics) Flies I really enjoy tying: 1. Soft Hackles (that and they work great) 2. Balsa wood bass poppers 3. Spun deer hair flies Flies I end up tying most of the time: 1. Soft Hackles 2. Adams 3. Wolly Buggers 4. Green Butt Skunks (If you want you can collect about 3 dozen of these, from me, by looking at low hanging branchs on the Clackamas in OR)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

Response:

I tie virtually all my own flies and love doing so, there are occasions in the peak of the season where I am unable to keep up and need to restock from commercial supplies. Clark Guided Flyfishing in paradise! http://www.dryflynz.cjb.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tie most flys I use often, like bead heads and wooly buggers..I buy most dries, i’m not a very good tyer. Tim Apple Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

Response:

Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

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I tie most flys I use often, like bead heads and wooly buggers..I buy most dries, i’m not a very good tyer. Tim Apple

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

Response:

Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies?

Personally, I tie my own. I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

I buy one as an example to take home as an aid so that I can tie my own. I have this thing about not fishing with flies I didn’t tie myself.  I seldom use flies that were either bought or given to me by a friend unless I am totally out of the pattern and have nothing that will substitute. When I met Lou Teletski in Yellowstone we had a little "mini-fly swap" which was pretty cool.  It was fun seeing some of the patterns I have heard many of the ROFFians back east talk about that are not popular out here.  I stuck the flies in my collection of patterns, which I keep as examples, and have since tied a few of my own duplicates.  It is kind of nice doing it this way because you always have the original example pattern and still get the pleasure of tying/using your own flies.  The more I practice, the better the pattern turns out and eventually I can make a halfway decent replica. — Warren www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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Harry Mason: For one thing the big bugs show the mistakes in a much larger format  :-) Proportion is displayed in all its glaring reality much more in larger bugs. One can cheat on big flies.

Don’t you mean "one can NOT cheat on big flies"?  After receiving a book on Carrie Stevens, I went out and bought all the feathers and stuff to tie her flies.  Boy, do little mistakes show up as big ones when you are tying a size 2  8x.  I am keeping the 1st Grey Ghost and Rapid River that I have tied. Hopefully, somewhere down the line, I will improve, especially with the proportions.  But, right now, I am struggling.  I want these to be perfect, and I doubt I have the knowledge/skill at this point. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Anything with knotted Pheasant tail legs. I have to have a few Islay malts first. Maybe that’s the problem.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?  I’ll start… 1   Royal Wullf 2   Kauffman stones 3   small humpy 4   no hackles 5   prince….my fav 6   muddler style flies Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

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When I go on an extended trip, I always take along my tieing gear. When I get there (wherever) there always seems to be one fly or another  that’s hot that week, and it’s usually something I don’t have in my 500+ on-hand.   The question is generally, "Do I want to tie flies, or do I want to fish?"   Since I usually fish from dawn to dusk, I end up buying them, regardless of how easy they may be to tie. There’s nothing that I buy instead of tie because of the difficulty. That doesn’t mean mine will turn out as well, however… As a germane aside, my sister is an expert fly tier, as well as an excellent fly fisher.  She tied every evening for years, while watching t.v., tackling some of the most difficult for the challenge.   Then her house burned up in the Oakland fire and she lost over 4,000 unfished flies.   The insurance comany tried to pay her for the hooks, feathers, etc., but finally did settle up for replacement value. Max Before you buy.

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I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?

I’m pretty new at this tying thing, so for me it comes down to anything with hackle, anything with wings, and anything with dubbing.  :-)   I’m getting better, though (I’ve just about got this GRW thing <g). Joe F.

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What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?  

spun deer hair flies microfibbet tails extended bodied mayflies Mu

Response:

How ’bout #20 Tricos?  I bought a bunch from Trout Fitters in Fergus. The things are so small, I had one sitting here on my desk, and it just disappeared on me…  I have never had any success with them mind you, but they sure are neat to look at!  

Response:

Mike;   I found a few tyers like that in England.  Incredible flies at a great price.  Unfortunately, I’m pretty tight-fisted right now and can’t buy a fly unless I’m using it as a model.  Flies that I would rather have made  -    Tupp’s Indespensible (I don’t have a good source for a ram’s (tupp) scrotum hairs.    Frank’s Fightin’ Craw – I get tired when I’m on the 60th fly of the evening.  Can’t we just ship them off to Thailand for production?    Classic salmon flies – I got to sit down and watch Poul Jorgensen tie at a Partridge of Redditch event for 2 hours.  It was awesome.  I tried to replicate his efforts and felt woefully inadequate.    First flies on the new water – need model flies to figure out the pattern.  What does a White Miller Caddis look like if you’ve never seen it and have to get ready for the hatch?    Burnt wing flies – you know how many decent wings I’ve torched trying to do this?  You know what this smells like?    "The fly that the guy at the bottom of the pool is cleaning up with while I’m being skunked."  If some one came along the bank and said "hey, want what he’s using?  20 bucks!"  I would be on him like buzzards on the renderin’ wagon.  Its a testosterone thing.  Why did you buy that new Ford 350 pick’em-up wid da V-8 and when your wife would have been happy with a new Ford Focus?  Its a testosterone thing.  Why do you have tools in your work room that most people just rent?  Its a testosterone thing.  Why do you wanna jump Anna Nichole Smith’s bones?  Hell with testosterone, if you don’t you be dead.               Frank "stream of conciousness" Reid Before you buy.

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How ’bout #20 Tricos?  I bought a bunch from Trout Fitters in Fergus. The things are so small, I had one sitting here on my desk, and it just disappeared on me…  I have never had any success with them mind you, but they sure are neat to look at!

______  Probably kidnapped and raped by real Tricos.  Those little bugs are real gang bangers. Those little suckers can catch you the largest trout of your life on a dry Ian.  I wish we could get together on a river or three I have in mind regarding these little devils. It is perhaps the most exciting kind of dry fly fishing any man could hope for, my friend. — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

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For me, anything smaller that 18, I would rather buy, my ole eyes can’t take it much any more.  I love fishing the tiny fly in the tiny stream. chris

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I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?    I’ll start… 1   Royal Wullf 2   Kauffman stones 3   small humpy 4   no hackles 5   prince….my fav 6   muddler style flies Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

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1.  Dave’s Hopper, 2. Dave’s Hopper…6. Dave’s Hopper Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?  I’ll start… 1   Royal Wullf 2   Kauffman stones 3   small humpy 4   no hackles 5   prince….my fav 6   muddler style flies Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

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Those of us that do tye and there lots of reasons not to  :-) do have patterns that we just hate . Clipped  Deer hair seems to head the list. Small bugs are intimidating to some but IMO they can and usually are a  easier to build than the big ones. For one thing the big bugs show the mistakes in a much larger format  :-) Proportion is displayed in all its glaring reality much more in larger bugs. One can cheat on big flies. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -How ’bout #20 Tricos?  I bought a bunch from Trout Fitters in Fergus. The things are so small, I had one sitting here on my desk, and it just disappeared on me…  I have never had any success with them mind you, but they sure are neat to look at!  

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<< I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… I guess I am an odd duck in the world of fly fishing but I hate tying flies.  I love building rods and wrapping the guides but fly tying drives me nuts.   For years I forced myself to tie due to the high prices in the fly shops but I finally found a store that sells high quality flies for .50 each.  For the first time in years, my fly box is full of dry flys of every size shape and color.  I have enjoyed fishing this a lot more because I don’t go through the pre-trip tying grind. So I guess my vote is for all of them. Mike

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Easy, anything with stacked, compressed and clipped deer hair.  I hate spinning and clipping deer hair – the fly usually ends up looking like shit.  I can never get it compressed enough without bending the hook or breaking something and when I clip it, it looks like it just lost a fight with a chainsaw. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

 East of Aspen, there

Question:

The Angler’s Lie is at 3510 Lee Highway in Arlington, VA. They claim to be only 7 minutes from the White House!  Since I don’t live in the White House it really never mattered too much to me.  Call and someone will give you directions, from the White House or wherever. Phone (703) 527-2524 Have fun, John

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Call Scotty Wolf at Wolf’s Fly Shop in Ellicott City, right up Rt. 29.  He is one of the best around. Ralph Curd

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Try the Anglers Lie, 3510 Lee Hwy, Arlington, VA. 703 527 2524. Great selection of fly tying materials etc. They only deal in fly fishing.

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I am looking for a good fly shp in Alexandria VA Can anyone give a few recommendations ? Thanks   Richard Lewis

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Richard, You are in luck.  One of the best flyshops in the area is in Alexandria. The Angler’s Lie is on Lee highway 10 minutes from the White House.  They are in the phonebook.  Huge selection on tying materials.  Enjoy!

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Question:

     We are 4 fishing buddies from Colorado who want to try fishing a new area.  The Deschutes and McKenzie Rivers were recomended to us by a fellow Fly fisherman from California.      We have fished Wyoming, Idaho and Montana in the last several years and would like to try fishing the Northwest.  We are mainly interested in trout although I have never caught a Steelhead.  Most of us are experienced nymph anglers.      We normally hire a guide in any new area we fish to sort of get the lay of the land and then fish on our own.        We will be in the area for about a week and will probably fly into whatever city is recomended, rent a car and drive to an area to fish.  We need rent hotel/motel rooms for each of us near where we are going to fish.      I know when anglers come to Denver from out of town, I will usually take them to the famous South Platte River and then, because they are not local, I will take them to some of my more "secret" areas since they will probably not have the opportunity to spread the word around.      We sure would like to fish some of the more unknown areas and will find it easy to keep the areas a secret since we are 1500 miles away.                                      Thanks for the information                                       Dave Wahl

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     We are 4 fishing buddies from Colorado who want to try fishing a new area.  The Deschutes and McKenzie Rivers were recomended to us by a fellow Fly fisherman from California.     We have fished Wyoming, Idaho and Montana in the last several years and would like to try fishing the Northwest.  We are mainly interested in trout although I have never caught a Steelhead.  Most of us are experienced nymph anglers.     We normally hire a guide in any new area we fish to sort of get the lay of the land and then fish on our own.       We will be in the area for about a week and will probably fly into whatever city is recomended, rent a car and drive to an area to fish.  We need rent hotel/motel rooms for each of us near where we are going to fish.     I know when anglers come to Denver from out of town, I will usually take them to the famous South Platte River and then, because they are not local, I will take them to some of my more "secret" areas since they will probably not have the opportunity to spread the word around.     We sure would like to fish some of the more unknown areas and will find it easy to keep the areas a secret since we are 1500 miles away.                                     Thanks for the information                                      Dave Wahl

The Crooked River.    L.H.

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Question:

Any ideas on shad fishing in the Columiba River would be appreciated. Thanks! K Lawson

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Any ideas on shad fishing in the Columiba River would be appreciated. Thanks! K Lawson

My father in law uses a white jig or maybe its a small white fly.  I didn’t go and it was 5 years ago or so when he told me.  He fishes by McNary dam I think it is, downstream of the dam. Nice size fish I saw them, but I personally haven’t fished for shad. Tight lines.

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Question:

I plan to be in Thunder Bay, Ont. in mid-July. Does anyone have suggestions for places to fly fish for trout or smallmouths?

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I am often up in T-Bay on business and I am looking for good spots too, so if anyone has any ideas? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan to be in Thunder Bay, Ont. in mid-July. Does anyone have suggestions for places to fly fish for trout or smallmouths?

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Question:

I’m brand new to flyfishing and was wondering if getting involved in a club was the best way to get started.  I live in the "Thumb" of Michigan. Any comments would be helpful.  Thank you.  Jeff.

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I’m brand new to flyfishing and was wondering if getting involved in a club was the best way to get started.  I live in the "Thumb" of Michigan.

Club membership is the best way for beginners.  There are probably locals in your state of both Trout Unlimited and the Federation of Fly Fishermen. Your quickest line would be to ask at a specialist FF store as near as possible to either your home or your likely fishing region.  There is a famous store and lodge run by "Rusty" Gates on the Ausable at Grayling, another at Traverse City etc.:  browse this newsgroup for phone numbers. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I’m brand new to flyfishing and was wondering if getting involved in a club was the best way to get started.  I live in the "Thumb" of Michigan. Any comments would be helpful.  Thank you.  Jeff.

Hi Jeff, A club is a great way to learn from friends – either casting, fishing, and tying. To locate a club near you call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 800-618-0808 and ask about a FFF club near you. A local fly shop is also another source for this information. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Planning a Memorial Day Weekend trip to the Housatonic and have never fished the area.  Looking for help regarding spots and hatches.  Will be staying at Housatonic Meadows State park.   Thanks and Tight Lines! — MICHAEL DeVERE

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Michael, From your campground at Housatonic Meadows North on Route 7 to the Covered Bridge in Cornwall is the entire Trout Management Area.  Anyplace you see a spot where you can squeeze in a car, on either side of the road,  will get you to the River.  Many people like the pool just below the covered bridge, but I have found the entire stretch excellent. The CT State Hatchery is stocking 9,000 Trout into this section on May 22.  This will add to an already abundant, but wise, population. Caddis Flys (Green, Black, Cream, Tan, Brown & Grey) seem to be big producers this week.  Also Caddis Emergers fished in the film are doing well. Look for Ephemerella Dorothea (Little Sulphur in about a size 16) to be hatching during your stay. Good luck. Greg Greg

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Planning a Memorial Day Weekend trip to the Housatonic and have never fished the area.  Looking for help regarding spots and hatches.

The Housie has lots of hatches. Baetus, brown and green caddis (#14-16), maybe March Browns, Green and Brown Drakes if you’re lucky, are all likely to be present. Figuring out what the trout are working on is the biggest challenge. There are lots of trout, virtually all stocked fish, despite fishkills in recent years brought about by hot water and poor water management. River flows are controlled by releases from a power dam, which is operated on weekends primarily for the benefit of canoeists and kayakers. This generally means high water difficult to fish from 9AM to 5PM. One strategy is to fish the north end of the Trout Management Area (about a mile or so above the covered bridge and best accessed from the east side) early in the AM, and move downstream as the water there starts to rise between 8 and 8:30, ending up at the south end around 10 or 10:30, and repeat the trip in the late afternoon. The daily rise and fall of water flow tends to put the trout down during the transition. The Housie gets a lot of fishing pressure, but one can almost always find areas that are not crowded, and it offers a good variety of conditions, from fast pockets to smooth pools.  Check in with Phil at the Housatonic Meadows Fly Shop on Rte 7; take his recommendations with a grain of salt, but he does know the river.

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There’s a fly shop right opposite the campgrounds with good info and excellent local ties although my recollection is that proprietor is a little close mouthed until your wallet becomes visible. A;lso call river club info number for daily updates by the most knowledgeable Ed Kluck who records report daily. 203 248 8616. Also water releases tape # is 203 824 7053. Note that it takes two hours for head of water to reach the campground from the time the release starts at dam at Falls Village.

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Question:

I dont mean to burst your bubble but you mention three items together that are antonyms of alaska.  Anywhere theres fish theres people.  It’s expencive.  And for most of Alaska dry flyfish is not the perfered method (usualy egg patterns of attractors) although I almost soley dryflied there all summer. But I caught more Grayling than trout and less than my buddies with egg pat. Ive guided there for the past two summers and have seen people try to take the economy route and be unhappy.         Two suggestions Rust’s flying service about $125 a day for guided         day fishing.  Rust is quite dependable.  my next and stronger suggustion         is goto or call McFee’s flyshop in Anchorage and ask for Dennis (owner)         tell him Kyle from Wilderness Place lodge sent you and he’ll give you the scoop.  Good Luck any questions feel free to contact me directly.         University of Illinois

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dont mean to burst your bubble but you mention three items together  that are antonyms of alaska.  Anywhere theres fish theres people.  It’s expencive.  And for most of Alaska dry flyfish is not the perfered method (usualy egg  patterns of attractors) although I almost soley dryflied there all summer.  But I caught more Grayling than trout and less than my buddies with egg pat.  Ive guided there for the past two summers and have seen people try to take  the economy route and be unhappy.    Two suggestions Rust’s flying service about $125 a day for guided    day fishing.  Rust is quite dependable.  my next and stronger suggustion    is goto or call McFee’s flyshop in Anchorage and ask for Dennis (owner)    tell him Kyle from Wilderness Place lodge sent you and he’ll give you the scoop.  Good Luck any questions feel free to contact me directly.    University of Illinois

I agree that egg patterns are the best bet, but dry fly fishing in Alaska can be very rewarding.  The reason people don’t catch more fish on drys is because they just don’t try them enough.   They simply assume they will be ineffective.  Alaska is not devoid of insect life, it just takes some exploring and investigating to figure out what the fish are taking.  If you go to Alaska to catch salmon, sure, dry flies are going to be ineffective.  But, if you fish for rainbows and grayling, and you really should, then drys can be a blast!  By the way, that should be McAfee’s Fly Shop, not McFee’s.  Have fun, and catch and release!  Good fishing. -Steve  

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jay) writes:

You might want to consider flying into King Salmon on Alaska Airlines and hook up with an outfitter there(sorry no names :I stayed at a flyout camp). An outfitter can set you up to float the American River, which is an oustanding remote dryfly river. It will take about 4-5 days to float the river to the mouth on Bristol Bay. Great big country and has a major bear problem( last year had major league charge from a big male who was protecting his fresh moose calf kill) .Don’t go alone! The flys I used were: Royal Wulff 12,14                                Yellow Humpy 12,14,16                                Gray Caddis-various                                 Royal Stimulator 12,14 The rainbows liked the Royal ties and the Grayling liked the the more subdued colors Adams etc.You should catch at least 100+ per day! (you must release all fish in the Bristol Bay watershed) FRANK

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I am planning to try fishing in Alaska this coming june and am interested in dry fly fishing in  fairly quiet places. I would like to do this fairly inexpensively. I have about 10 days to spend. Any help would be appreciated. Keep a tight line.

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I am planning to try fishing in Alaska this coming june and am interested in dry fly fishing in  fairly quiet places. I would like to do this fairly inexpensively. I have about 10 days to spend. Any help would be appreciated. Keep a tight line.

There are ways to fish Alaska fairly inexpensively after you get here. The biggest expense is the cost of an airline ticket.  Once here, the USFS has cabins they rent for $25/night on some excellent fishing systems.   What species are you specifically interested in?  Southeast Alaska has cutthroat trout, steelhead, rainbow fishing in June.  The Bristol Bay area is known for its outstanding rainbow fishing. Let me know some specifics on what your interested in and we have informational leaflets that I can send to help you out. Doug Jones

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