Question:

….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang  South! S.

<splorkski

Response:

I’ve heard the Cabela’s Three Forks is a good stick… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang

Response:

Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing. I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously. Except for Wolfgang, but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds. Believe me, I am not worth getting too worked up about. Just killfile me and get on with your life, as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound. Bugger Everybody

Response:

… It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing.

We expect EVERYBODY to "take a ration". That’s the nature of the place and newbies are not exempt. It takes a pretty thick skin to voice an unpopular opinion around here but I, for one, agree with you about the Korean piece of shit Cabela’s Three Forks. Hang around, ignore most of the shit-weasels and give tit-for-tat to the rest. You might have fun. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group?

Why not form your own group and thus avoid riffraff and grumpy old men? Or simply die? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing.

It is even more astonishing to contemplate how ill equipped you are to determine what anyone expects or who is offended by what.  But then, what with your head spending so much time up your ass, all that buggery was bound to have some unpleasant consequences, wasn’t it? I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously.

Well, aside from the fact that the vast majority of us have only a single self (unlike some other highly uninteresting individuals who only drop in occasionally to take a much deserved and inevitable drubbing) and that the group as a whole also has only a single self, what you may or may not believe you think (assuming such a ludicrous notion has any applicability to this or any other world) is a matter which no one here is likely to take seriously. Except for Wolfgang,

Always quite flattering to be thought of as exceptional. but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds.

Genius.  Sheer unadulterated genius.  Mind if I use that one some time? Believe me,

As a rule, that is not likely to happen. I am not worth getting too worked up about.

We believe you. Just killfile me

No.  That has never worked for you before…..why would you think it would this time? and get on with your life,

Well, aside from the fact that we do not share a single life (each of us having been bestowed with an entire one of his or her own), what in the world would make you think that any of your pusillanimous pettifoggery would prompt anyone to put his or her life on hold for even the briefest instant? as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound.

Actually, it doesn’t, for all of the reasons stated above. Wolfgang and he STILL doesn’t get it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bugger Everybody

Response:

"pusillanimous pettifoggery" "pusillanimous pettifoggery" "pusillanimous pettifoggery" Cool.

Response:

Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men

And just how do you know we are old? I mean, you could be a lot older and are obviously quite grumpy enough for us all. Oh, and you forgot the "cor" at the beginning of your email address. — HTH, Tim

Response:

Hello all you hansom, intellectual, talented ROFFers (especially rw), Hi Bugger too, Everyone that could not take the diversity of fly fisherman on the web here already left this group years ago slamming the door loudly. You have to be very open minded to be here for the long hall. You have to have a sense of humor too. I remember sitting here years ago, dead of winter, nothing going on and "T-bone" would make a post that made me laugh so loud that I woke my wife in the next room. You have to be half crazy to have a fly shop to because we get some customers that make George look passive. Only stay here if it is worth it, but save the complaints because we have already heard them all. I don’t care if you are a "nympher" or a "troller" or just "too cerebral", OK, now I will tell a bed time story for you guys. (10:30pm in California) When I was a teenager I ran around with a neighborhood group of guys in south Sacramento. When I was with the group, someone was always teasing me about my clothes or my hair or something I said. One day I just left mad. The next day at school a friend ask me where I went. I told him I did not think many of them liked me because they always teased me. He said that they teased everyone in the group. My friend said that if they did not like you, they would not say anything thing to you. Most people just want to be noticed. My friend was pretty smart. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing. I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously. Except for Wolfgang, but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds. Believe me, I am not worth getting too worked up about. Just killfile me and get on with your life, as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound. Bugger Everybody

Response:

Suggestion withdrawn. It just occurred to me that I am pretty grumpy, and certainly not young, which is to say approaching middle age, as long as I plan to live until I’m 85… Bugger Me p.s. My apologies to the troll about advice for a ‘fishing pole’. I figured this group would jump all over the faux paus of calling a fly rod a pole. What do I get? Advice. Shit, maybe I’ll try out the 3 forks. p.p.s. Wolfgang, do you fish? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing. I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously. Except for Wolfgang, but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds. Believe me, I am not worth getting too worked up about. Just killfile me and get on with your life, as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound. Bugger Everybody

Response:

….Wolfgang, do you fish?

Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang

Response:

….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang

 South! S.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang South! S.

Lech Walesa! G.C.

Response:

Question:

Phooey. Give me a stick, a length of kite string, a hook, some worms … Well Shit! Just give me a rock and I’ll kill a deer, make a hook …

So you agree with Mike’s point and find daytripper’s detailed and impassioned counterargument to be in error, as I do, or is that whooshing noise the sound of the whole damn thing flying over your head ? — Ken Fortenberry- buy yourself some emoticons, Willi

Response:

or, I don’t need no stinkin’ rock, I can grab more trout with my bare

…six months ago, in a semi-sober conversation, i made a $100 bet with pj – he claimed he would catch more trout on upper snowbird in august by grappling than i would with rod and reel. i bet him just because it sounded like an opportunity to get a good chuckle… but i expect to lose a $100 in the process… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [major snippage] Regarding rods, you can catch just as many fish with a hazel branch cut from the hedge, which costs nothing, … No, you can’t. Phooey. Give me a stick, a length of kite string, a hook, some worms and a twig bobber and I’ll catch MORE trout (or bluegill) than any Winston toting, effete, full-of-himself, Orvis-clad flyfisherman who ever fished a stream or pond. Guaranteed. It is more a matter of personal taste, than of suitability. No, it’s not. Personal taste is ALL it is. The rest is just posturing for dramatic effect. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that .

Hah hah! I’d love to see you and Mike bring your sticks, kite string, etc, out for some bluewater fishing – at least for the 5 seconds it’d take for you to realize that Yet Another Broad Statement has gone down in a flaming Reality Check… /daytripper (hope *that* helps, flatlander.

Response:

[major snippage] Regarding rods, you can catch just as many fish with a hazel branch cut from the hedge, which costs nothing, as with the latest top-notch super-duper "high-modulus" carbon fibre or split-cane fishing rod, for a bag full of money. No, you can’t.

I have to agree here.  Just try for pike, mackeral, bonefish, stripers, salmon, and this falls apart.  Put in a constraint that we’re working small streams for trout or panfish, and then it’s a different story. It is more a matter of personal taste, than of suitability. No, it’s not. Cheers /daytripper (Hope this helps

Cheered Chas (it did) Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

It was not designed to insult, upset, or ridicule anybody at all.  If it has, then I was just lucky.

<g — Charlie…

Response:

While I agree with much you say, I also believe it’s overly simplistic. <It is not really about catching fish – Yes, at some time this does become true. However, if you take a neophyte fishing, that person should catch something other then a cold. That is, if you want to see someone develop into the fisherman you’d like to see.

I believe it is always true. One has the desire to catch fish, often in some special way ( dry-fly. nymph, upstream wet, etc etc), but this is inextricably mixed in with many other desires, such as the desire for fresh air, being out in tne countryside, relaxation, general enjoyment, etc etc etc. People should develop into the the type of fihermen they want to be, independent of what others think or say. What I or anybody else "would like to see", assuming  this was the case, is completely irrelevant. <The main challenge, is to become proficient at something which is intrinsically difficult and demanding. – Okay, how does someone become proficient without actually catching some fish?

One can be extremely proficient, and still catch no fish. One becomes proficient by learning and practicng. How does one know what is successful if they’ve not been successful?

Good point, the answer is basically the same. You can only really "know" something if you experience it. You can only know how Bill Gates feels, if you are Bill Gates.  Read and listen to the experts. Cast on the lawn. Do all the things that the lesson plans call for.

I do not agree with this. Go fishing. You will not become proficient until you put everything together and succeed on a consistent basis.

I do not agree with this either. One may enjoy oneself fishing, even if one is a hopeless duffer. Proficiency is not a pre-requisite for enjoyment. It may be for many, but this does not make it a universal constant. Then, and only then, will you be proficient and realize that it’s not really about catching fish.

I think even most beginners are perfectly well aware that it is not about catching fish. As far as rods, sure for worm dunking most anything will do. But that’s where that level of simplicity stops.

I disagree again. A rod is a rod, irrespective of how "primitive" it may be. Nothing else changes.  In order to practice some modern techniques, ( long distance casting etc ), then modern rods are indeed required.  It is however not necessary to use such techniques when fishing for trout on most streams and rivers, and a "primitive" implement is just as good as the most expensive rod made for this purpose. It has nothing to do with "simplicity" as such. mayfly

TL MC

Response:

It is not really about catching fish. This is of course said time and time again, and occasionally even analysed, but still it is a problem for many. If you just want fish, then go to a professional fisherman, supermarket, fish-shop, whatever,  and buy them. If you want to catch large numbers of fish, become a professional fisherman. How many you catch, is less important, at least to a sensible flyfisherman, ( or indeed any other predominantly "pleasure" angler),  than how, where, under what circumstances, and with what. If this were not so, then it would be absolutely pointless to go fly-fishing. Fly-fishing is ( in most cases) illogical per se. There are ( at least nowadays, this was not always so), far more efficient, less labour intensive, and far less costly ways of obtaining fish. People do it because they enjoy it, for one reason or another, not because it is efficient. Of course a good flyfisherman will normally consistently catch more fish than a beginner. This is perfectly normal, he is simply better at it!  There are no arcane reasons. There are no "magical" flies, rods, or anything else. It is simply a matter of knowledge and application. Somebody who learns as much as he possibly can, and applies this over a period of time, will be better than somebody who just goes out for a Saturday afternoon now and then, after perusing his monthly fishing magazine. Necessary? None of it is necessary. The main challenge, is to become proficient at something which is intrinsically difficult and demanding. This allows many people to forget their woes and worries. They sink themselves in their fishing to the exclusion of all else. Whether this is "sensible" or not, has nothing to do with it. If you do not want something difficult and demanding, then use worms and a bobber. Or stay at home watch TV, and drink beer to reach blissful oblivion. Neither I, nor anybody else can remove the "frustration" of not being able to do some things. Either learn to do them, or give up, and do something else. Constantly moaning that you can not catch anything, is your own problem, and nobody else

Question:

Does anyone know where fish spotting gets done around Australia? I know there are some in the Gulf in the prawn season.  And I seem
to recall a magazine article some years ago about tuna spotting
somewhere.  Does anyone know where else people fly for fishing
fleets, what aircraft they use, and what the work prospects are like in that industry?  Is it worth considering as an option for a newby CPL? — – Before you buy.

Response:

Harry may still be some tuna spotting out of Port Lincoln.  Usta use aerocommanders (i think) and one Cessna push pull job (although I think thats gone).   Flights of considerable duration ranging to the far west and into WA. regards Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where fish spotting gets done around Australia? I know there are some in the Gulf in the prawn season.  And I seem to recall a magazine article some years ago about tuna spotting somewhere.  Does anyone know where else people fly for fishing fleets, what aircraft they use, and what the work prospects are like in that industry?  Is it worth considering as an option for a newby CPL? — – Before you buy.

Response:

I have seen Aero Commanders and C337’s at Ceduna SA and pretty sure some at Pt Lincoln during a fuel stop. A local flies from Triabunna (East coast Tas) with a C180 for Mackerel (I think) for the fish farms in Tas. I think he may have spotted for Tuna as well. Maybe he’ll let us know? — Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Australia Aero Club of Southern Tasmania   www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                           www.prologic.com.au

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Harry may still be some tuna spotting out of Port Lincoln.  Usta use aerocommanders (i think) and one Cessna push pull job (although I think thats gone).   Flights of considerable duration ranging to the far west and into WA. regards Don Does anyone know where fish spotting gets done around Australia? I know there are some in the Gulf in the prawn season.  And I seem to recall a magazine article some years ago about tuna spotting somewhere.  Does anyone know where else people fly for fishing fleets, what aircraft they use, and what the work prospects are like in that industry?  Is it worth considering as an option for a newby CPL? — – Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Certainly does sound as if you were snorting something or other! A most attractive Aardvark lives just across the way, and being polite I sometimes stop, to pass the time of day. she has some awkward habits though, she likes snorting ants, but when you find aardvarks attractive, this just tightens up your pants. One takes more care in ones appearance, sports dentures and toupee and a surgically lengthened nose of course, is a real hit right away. I really wanted to be an orca, but my paltry fishing skills will not suffice, its very difficult to cast with fins as well, and the operation has its price. And so I am stuck with aardvarks, and am sometimes moved to prose, when a large and  juicy termite is sucked loudly up my nose, this often makes my poor eyes water, and you need a lot of wipes, zebras have it better, but its just too hard to transplant stripes. I have been approached by possums too, invited to their lair, but I think this may be mainly due, to my artificial hair, Gummy bears have also been sniffing around of late, but I just take out my dentures then, and leave them on the plate. This discourages such advances, and is really quite a lark, but when I forget to put them in again, it upsets my aardvark. I am proud of my proboscis now, it cost a pretty penny too, the only disadvantage now, is that I live in the local zoo. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

I’m planning a 9 day flyfishing trip to the northern Calif area and plan to visit areas like  Hat Creek, McCloud, Truckee, Owens, etc. When would be the best time to do this between early August and October? Thanks.

Response:

Skiroc,    Any time after school starts. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a 9 day flyfishing trip to the northern Calif area and plan to visit areas like  Hat Creek, McCloud, Truckee, Owens, etc. When would be the best time to do this between early August and October? Thanks.

Response:

To minimize backroad travel. I would checkout deer hunting seasons on the places you are going. FWIW, if you are going to fish Hat Creek, and maybe wonder on East and fish Fall River, then I suggest you head on East to Alturas in California’s most Northeast county then go South on 395 to Likely California and go East into the Warner Mountains Wilderness area.  They have a Red Band strain of the McCloud Rainbow that is truly a magnificent fish to catch and release. There are a number of lakes and streams in the area that are an easy hike in with float tube.  Due to the sensitive nature of the habitat of these very special animals, this is all of the info I’ll post but for more info e-mail me. Compared to the hordes of folk at Hat Creek, Truckee and Walker, this area will knock your socks off at the lack of people.  I think Alturas, the county seat of Lompoc county has, uh 3 stoplights?  This beautiful part of the West (NW Nevada, SCentral Oregon NE California) is remote 4×4, tent camping off the road fishing on small high mountain streams and high country lakes. Unlike those other places, when the jokers run out of Powerbait here, there aint no 7/11 nearby! Enjoy! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a 9 day flyfishing trip to the northern Calif area and plan to visit areas like  Hat Creek, McCloud, Truckee, Owens, etc. When would be the best time to do this between early August and October? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

George and Darren are dead right about the potential problem wading with higher water flows.  But we have been OK even when the flows are near 5000CFS – the trick is to watch other fishermen to locate crossings and places it’s safe to wade.  When you see one take one step forward and float two steps back, he’s getting a bit deep.  And don’t forget if your wading partner is shorter than you she might find the water more difficult…and I speak from personal experience WHICH SHE’LL NEVER LET ME FORGET!  And in May, that is some COLD water.  Good luck,  Bruce V

Response:

In Durango, CO is Duranglers; they also have (had?) a shop right on the river in NM.  Good folks to me. BB

Response:

In Durango, CO is Duranglers; they also have (had?) a shop right on the river in NM.  Good folks to me. BB

Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com        http://www.xink.com        http://www.rodbuilding.com        http://www.rodbuilder.com All Writings & Rights Reserved

Question:

Hello RBPers! I read this post just the other day, especially the part regarding Old Towns being heavier than announced, and decided to check for myself. So I weighed my 17′ Penobscot, advertised at 65 lbs, and whaddaya know? It weighed 65 pounds! So, at least in this particular instance (and assuming the scale was accurate, etc.) Old Town’s number appears to be correct. Of course, as they say, your mileage may vary, but I’ve been very happy with the Penobscot.  It is my family’s first canoe, and we have had a lot of fun with it. And that, to me, is what it is all about.

Well, Our 16 ft Penobscot is a heavy dog.  I weighed it and it came to almost 75 lbs. It’s advertised at 63 lbs. The only additions are flotation and knee pads. I’m still trying figure out why its such a lump of lead! Eric L. Nilson Remove {Remove-to-mail} for email

Response:

Thanks for your reply and comments, Andrew! I just didn’t want new folks (not unlike myself) to dismiss a manufacturer out-of-hand based upon one model or experience. I used RBP as one of my sources in selecting the Penobscot, so I truly believe people’s experiences here are valuable. Regarding materials, I think I would have liked to have been able to justify the Kevlar, but two to three times the price was just too much. I don’t know much about Kevlar’s real-life durability, but the weight reduction would have been nice. Maybe one of these days… Anyway, thanks again and let’s hope for an early spring! Carl Seals – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello RBPers! I read this post just the other day, especially the part regarding Old Towns being heavier than announced, and decided to check for myself. So I weighed my 17′ Penobscot, advertised at 65 lbs, and whaddaya know? It weighed 65 pounds! So, at least in this particular instance (and assuming the scale was accurate, etc.) Old Town’s number appears to be correct. Of course, as they say, your mileage may vary, but I’ve been very happy with the Penobscot.  It is my family’s first canoe, and we have had a lot of fun with it. And that, to me, is what it is all about. Happy paddline! Carl Seals Don’t take Old Town’s weights seriosly, it will be heavier than announced. When I said that, I meant specifically Old Town’s Discovery (polyethylene) boats.  The Penobscot is Royalex, so their weights for those boats may be accurate.  I’ve picked up Penobscots, and 65 lbs seems a reasonable amount (nicely designed boats too).  The 15-8 Discovery’s I’ve picked up are as difficult to lift as my friends wood-canvas boat (that is 80 lbs plus).  Old Town puts the weight of their Discovery’s much lower, about the same as their Royalex boats, even though the polyethylene is a much heavier material. — Delete all the occurences of the letter q to reply. — Andrew (no q) Gooding

Response:

I am about to buy a new canoe and am looking at the following four canoes: Mad River- Tahoe 14 37 inch beam wt 55lbs OldTown- Camper 16 36 inch beam wt 59lbs Novacraft-Angler 15 37 inch beam wt 54 lbs Wenonah-Fisherman 14 39 inch beam wt 62lbs I am a fly fisherman so with these canoes am looking for stability and ease of lifting and carrying. I would very much appreciate any input anyone has on these canoes to assist me in making my choice. Regards Gene Rogers

Hi Gene; One thing I outta say as long as we are talking about opinions, is; Like an old guide told me once, learn to cast sitting down, don’t argue, just do it. He was right of course. Casting while kneeling is not such a big task and makes flyfishing from a canoe a lot safer and more enjoyable. That said, of the boats you mentioned, the only one I have first hand experience with is the Old Town. I notice that it is the longest. Superficially at least, this indicates that it may be the fastest, and you can always learn to turn a fast boat, but you can never make a slow boat fast. This quality is important for dealing with wind, attainments in current and such. This is also a truism and therefore not always the case. I note that all the boats you mention are within a few pounds of the Old Town, which to me, knowing only what you have presented, makes it my choice. Anyway, there are some opinions for you. Have fun :wq

Response:

Mad River- Tahoe 14 37 inch beam wt 55lbs OldTown- Camper 16 36 inch beam wt 59lbs Novacraft-Angler 15 37 inch beam wt 54 lbs Wenonah-Fisherman 14 39 inch beam wt 62lbs

I bought an OldTown Pathfinder for much the same purpose (it’s a shorter version of the Camper) and it was fine until I got hooked on canoeing and less interested in fishing.  I still flyfish from my Mad River Explorer. Stability has never been a problem, but switching between the fly rod and the paddle can be a nuisance…

Response:

Hello RBPers! I read this post just the other day, especially the part regarding Old Towns being heavier than announced, and decided to check for myself. So I weighed my 17′ Penobscot, advertised at 65 lbs, and whaddaya know? It weighed 65 pounds! So, at least in this particular instance (and assuming the scale was accurate, etc.) Old Town’s number appears to be correct. Of course, as they say, your mileage may vary, but I’ve been very happy with the Penobscot.  It is my family’s first canoe, and we have had a lot of fun with it. And that, to me, is what it is all about. Happy paddline! Carl Seals I’d get the boat in fiberglass, the Fisherman is, not sure about the NovaCraft.  Don’t take Old Town’s weights seriosly, it will be heavier than announced.  Plastic, whether polyethylene or Royalex, will be less abrasion resistant, heavier, less repairable and will not hold its shape like a good fiberglass boat, like the Wenonah.  They’re only good for dropping off buildings, running into with your SUV, or paddling whitewater.  A good fiberglass boat will last for years. — Delete all the occurences of the letter q to reply. — Andrew (no q) Gooding

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello RBPers! I read this post just the other day, especially the part regarding Old Towns being heavier than announced, and decided to check for myself. So I weighed my 17′ Penobscot, advertised at 65 lbs, and whaddaya know? It weighed 65 pounds! So, at least in this particular instance (and assuming the scale was accurate, etc.) Old Town’s number appears to be correct. Of course, as they say, your mileage may vary, but I’ve been very happy with the Penobscot.  It is my family’s first canoe, and we have had a lot of fun with it. And that, to me, is what it is all about. Happy paddline! Carl Seals

Don’t take Old Town’s weights seriosly, it will be heavier than announced.

When I said that, I meant specifically Old Town’s Discovery (polyethylene) boats.  The Penobscot is Royalex, so their weights for those boats may be accurate.  I’ve picked up Penobscots, and 65 lbs seems a reasonable amount (nicely designed boats too).  The 15-8 Discovery’s I’ve picked up are as difficult to lift as my friends wood-canvas boat (that is 80 lbs plus).  Old Town puts the weight of their Discovery’s much lower, about the same as their Royalex boats, even though the polyethylene is a much heavier material. — Delete all the occurences of the letter q to reply. — Andrew (no q) Gooding

Response:

I’d get the boat in fiberglass, the Fisherman is, not sure about the NovaCraft.  Don’t take Old Town’s weights seriosly, it will be heavier than announced.  Plastic, whether polyethylene or Royalex, will be less abrasion resistant, heavier, less repairable and will not hold its shape                       ^^^^^^^ That’s not true, is it???

Yes, plastic, especially Old Town’s polyethylene as used in the Discovery series is the heaviest widely used canoe material.  Royalex is less so, but still heavy.  I’d try lifting the boats in question.  The 15-8 Discovery is listed at 72 lbs, but weighs closer to 85.  A Grumman 17′ is significantly lighter. — Delete all the occurences of the letter q to reply. — Andrew (no q) Gooding

Response:

     I’m not sure I understand the context here but David asks if it is true that royalex canoes will be less abrasion resistant than glass boats.  Well, I am one abrasion producing mojo and,  having both a glass WW boat (an Edge) and a royalite Rival,  I am here to tell you that the Rival takes abuse that would put the Edge back on the sawhorses for a serious session of patch and curse.  I wish that weren’t true because I love the Edge (even though it is much less forgiving) but theroyalex/royalite will take the beating much better.      I agree that your Old Town plastic boat might weigh more than they say.  I also think that glasas takes hits better than many , dare I say it, New Schoolers, might think.  But, for the big whap, like after the boof where there turns out to be one inch rather than one foot of landing water, plastic is better.  For flat water though, no question, go with glass or kevlar.. Chris Kelly

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d get the boat in fiberglass, the Fisherman is, not sure about the NovaCraft.  Don’t take Old Town’s weights seriosly, it will be heavier than announced.  Plastic, whether polyethylene or Royalex, will be less abrasion resistant, heavier, less repairable and will not hold its shape like a good fiberglass boat, like the Wenonah.  They’re only good for dropping off buildings, running into with your SUV, or paddling whitewater.  A good fiberglass boat will last for years. I feel that’s a little extreme.  He feels that weight is a problem. Being that most canoes are tandem and will be portaged and shuttled that way, an 85 pound canoe would be little problem to most folks. Weight is more of a consideration to individual kayakers.  Plastic or Royalex are good, sound choices; fiberglass is too breakable.

He’s not doing whitewater, he is using the canoe solo (I hope with a 14′ boat).  Usually one person gets the boat off the car, so heavy canoe are a problem.  Good fiberglass cloth layups (not chopper gun cheapies) are plenty strong.  A friend has been using his in whitewater for 10 years. To say they’re too "breakable" menas either you have little expereince with good fiberglass, or you are assuming the boat should be completely idiot proof, which I am not claiming. — Delete all the occurences of the letter q to reply. — Andrew (no q) Gooding

Response:

I’d get the boat in fiberglass, the Fisherman is, not sure about the NovaCraft.  Don’t take Old Town’s weights seriosly, it will be heavier than announced.  Plastic, whether polyethylene or Royalex, will be less abrasion resistant, heavier, less repairable and will not hold its shape like a good fiberglass boat, like the Wenonah.  They’re only good for dropping off buildings, running into with your SUV, or paddling whitewater.  A good fiberglass boat will last for years.

I feel that’s a little extreme.  He feels that weight is a problem. Being that most canoes are tandem and will be portaged and shuttled that way, an 85 pound canoe would be little problem to most folks. Weight is more of a consideration to individual kayakers.  Plastic or Royalex are good, sound choices; fiberglass is too breakable.

Response:

I am about to buy a new canoe and am looking at the following four canoes: Mad River- Tahoe 14 37 inch beam wt 55lbs OldTown- Camper 16 36 inch beam wt 59lbs Novacraft-Angler 15 37 inch beam wt 54 lbs Wenonah-Fisherman 14 39 inch beam wt 62lbs I am a fly fisherman so with these canoes am looking for stability and ease of lifting and carrying. I would very much appreciate any input anyone has on these canoes to assist me in making my choice. Regards Gene Rogers

 Gene,  My opinion kind of originates from the perspective of *do you want to be seated or kneeling?*…  With the comfortable knee_pads sold today, I would find the kneeling position much more stable a platform in which to throw line out of…IMHO…particularly in dealing with casting itself…much more comfortable too, thus ..IMHO..I’d stay away from the flat barges…and go with a well designed kevlar.  A well designed hull with rock-solid secondary stablility gives me infinitely more security than sitting in a Camper… where I had to stay as still as I could when sitting…staying still while sitting?…trying to throw line..???? It just never worked for me…With the sensitive area being your top-heavy sitting position…your arm/shoulder area becomes a focal point of solidity…..??  when trying to set a #22 baetis emerger with a tight arm..??? good luck… $.02, steve drossel

Response:

I am about to buy a new canoe and am looking at the following four canoes: Mad River- Tahoe 14 37 inch beam wt 55lbs OldTown- Camper 16 36 inch beam wt 59lbs Novacraft-Angler 15 37 inch beam wt 54 lbs Wenonah-Fisherman 14 39 inch beam wt 62lbs I am a fly fisherman so with these canoes am looking for stability and ease of lifting and carrying. I would very much appreciate any input anyone has on these canoes to assist me in making my choice. Regards Gene Rogers Home Page URL: http://members.tripod.com/caddis1

Response:

Gene, I own a Wenonah Spirit II in their Tuff-Weave material, basically reinforced fiberglass.  It is a very fine boat, and I would recommend Wenonah highly – though you didn’t say what material you were considering for the Fisherman.  I also like the OldTown Camper – in fact, I’m thinking of selling my Wenonah to buy a Camper, for both the added durability of Royalex, and because I can get the Camper in olive drab with stained seats and thwarts, which will be an advantage when duck hunting from it. One thing to watch out for – with the shorter, wider boats, you get more stability at the expense of paddling efficiency.  Personally, I wouldn’t go any wider than the 36 inch Camper, nor shorter than 16 feet, but then again, I’d give up some stability for paddling efficiency. Good Luck! Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about to buy a new canoe and am looking at the following four canoes: Mad River- Tahoe 14 37 inch beam wt 55lbs OldTown- Camper 16 36 inch beam wt 59lbs Novacraft-Angler 15 37 inch beam wt 54 lbs Wenonah-Fisherman 14 39 inch beam wt 62lbs I am a fly fisherman so with these canoes am looking for stability and ease of lifting and carrying. I would very much appreciate any input anyone has on these canoes to assist me in making my choice. Regards Gene Rogers Home Page URL: http://members.tripod.com/caddis1

Response:

hi Eugene ,         i would also look at the Swift Algonquin series,probably the i6 ft. it will weigh less then these even in their swift tech and stronger. Check out                         www.swiftcanoe.com  Note that prices will be in canadian dollars.                                         Bo Sinanan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about to buy a new canoe and am looking at the following four canoes: Mad River- Tahoe 14 37 inch beam wt 55lbs OldTown- Camper 16 36 inch beam wt 59lbs Novacraft-Angler 15 37 inch beam wt 54 lbs Wenonah-Fisherman 14 39 inch beam wt 62lbs I am a fly fisherman so with these canoes am looking for stability and ease of lifting and carrying. I would very much appreciate any input anyone has on these canoes to assist me in making my choice. Regards Gene Rogers Home Page URL: http://members.tripod.com/caddis1

Response:

Which one felt best when you tried it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about to buy a new canoe and am looking at the following four canoes: Mad River- Tahoe 14 37 inch beam wt 55lbs OldTown- Camper 16 36 inch beam wt 59lbs Novacraft-Angler 15 37 inch beam wt 54 lbs Wenonah-Fisherman 14 39 inch beam wt 62lbs I am a fly fisherman so with these canoes am looking for stability and ease of lifting and carrying. I would very much appreciate any input anyone has on these canoes to assist me in making my choice. Regards Gene Rogers Home Page URL: http://members.tripod.com/caddis1

patrickatcyberhighwaydotnet

Response:

I’d get the boat in fiberglass, the Fisherman is, not sure about the NovaCraft.  Don’t take Old Town’s weights seriosly, it will be heavier than announced.  Plastic, whether polyethylene or Royalex, will be less abrasion resistant, heavier, less repairable and will not hold its shape like a good fiberglass boat, like the Wenonah.  They’re only good for dropping off buildings, running into with your SUV, or paddling whitewater.  A good fiberglass boat will last for years. — Delete all the occurences of the letter q to reply. — Andrew (no q) Gooding

Response:

I’d get the boat in fiberglass, the Fisherman is, not sure about the NovaCraft.  Don’t take Old Town’s weights seriosly, it will be heavier than announced.  Plastic, whether polyethylene or Royalex, will be less abrasion resistant, heavier, less repairable and will not hold its shape

                      ^^^^^^^ That’s not true, is it??? like a good fiberglass boat, like the Wenonah.  They’re only good for dropping off buildings, running into with your SUV, or paddling whitewater.  A good fiberglass boat will last for years. — Delete all the occurences of the letter q to reply. — Andrew (no q) Gooding

David

Response:

Question:

I am planning a trip to fish some private section of Spruce Creek, PA in April.  Since I’m new to this area, I don’t know what to expect…conditions, hatches, etc.  Any info would be appreciated. Hal Goodrich

Response:

I am planning a trip to fish some private section of Spruce Creek, PA in April.  Since I’m new to this area, I don’t know what to expect…conditions, hatches, etc.  Any info would be appreciated. Hal Goodrich

I think that Doug Swisher filmed some of his 3M videos on Spruce Creek. If you could rent or buy these videos they will give you some insight. Fly Fishing Strategies and Advanced Fly Fishing Strategies are the titles. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Question:

   I work at Jacklin’s Fly shop in West Yellowstone, MT.  The fly fishing in the area is tremendous.  If anyone has fished the area and has some helpful tips, please reply or if someone wants some tips on fly fishing in the West Yellowstone area I’d be glad to give them.   Thanks,

Response:

   I work at Jacklin’s Fly shop in West Yellowstone, MT.

Jamie, That’s one hell of a commute from BGSU to West Yellowstone. I know the real estate price are pretty outrageous there, but I would think you could find something a little closer in. Bill

Response:

Jamie: i have fished west the last two summers. there are not enough superlatives in the dictionary to describe the area, especially for a new yorker. i stay at the pine shadows and last year fished the madison with blaine heap. this year i fished thhe park on my ownn and went up to livingston and fished nelson’s. i hope to return to west next year. charlie di peri

Response:

Hi One of my favorite places to fish in the Park is the Gibbon River in Elk Meadow and also below the falls.  You are right, there are so many places to fish in the WYS area that it would take a life time to fish them all.  Also just outside WYS Cougar Creek is real good but watch for bears. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Question:

These references to the periodic cicada have me excited for the next time I stumble on the emergence of a cicada "brood".  There are two types of periodic cicadas (as opposed to the few annual cicadas that emerge each year), the 17 year and the 13 year cicadas.  I encountered one of them in 1991 in central PA.  An extraordinary number of cicadas filled the stream valley in late may.  The zip zip sound of the few annual cicadas in the back yard was replaced by a constant whirrring sound as literally millions emerged.  Those that fell onto the water dissapeared in a swirl as the largest of the trout (those only brought to the surface by the Green Drakes) sucked them under with no problem.  Our hearts pounded as we tried our largest floating flies to attract them.  In the end our imitations were not good enough, but my new spun deer hair bodied flies with red squirrel tail wings will always be somewhere in my fly box – just in case….   As for emergence throughout the Eastern U.S., I believe that each individual brood (covering some limited geography) has its own cycle.  My fishing buddy and I are in the process of writing to Penn State University to learn whether a brood chart is available for PA. Jeff Shafer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   An article in today’s paper discusses the imminent hatch in the Eastern   U.S. of billions of cicadas in their 17 year cycle. They are huge, winged   insects and I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what it   was like during the last hatch in ‘79 ? Any suggested strategies or fly   patterns we can use ? Do the trout readily take them ?  They do have a tendency to fall in the water.  I’ve seen trout take them on  the Gunpowder but you could probably count on catfish, bass, and just about  anything big enough to eat them taking one.  A large unweighted muddler should  have a passable contour and when properly presented should make the necessary  ’plopping’ sound to initiate a strike.  It make take a few days for the fish  to realize that the cicadas are food since they are big enough to scare off the  less aggressive fish.    –      David J. Ebinger                     330-453-5180      Ebinger Equipment Co.                Fax 453-7113      http://www.bright.net/~ebco/

Response:

writes: Spent the summer on Cape Cod in 79 and the Circadia hatch was wild. Dark brown beetle looking creatures if I remember. But hey it’s been a while. The hatch is incredible as it matures in about three days. They don’t stay around too long. About a week was the total duration. I’m sure the trout take them but for the short period ot time the hatch is around it’s not worth tying for.

No way! I was in Mashpee in 79 and the browns on Mashpee-Wakeby killed the Cicadas during the entire hatch and could be fooled long afterward. I ran the 4-H camp there and fished nearly every day. Smallmouth were especially suseptable to any large bodied fly during that hatch. Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

Response:

An article in today’s paper discusses the imminent hatch in the Eastern U.S. of billions of cicadas in their 17 year cycle. They are huge, winged insects and I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what it was like during the last hatch in ‘79 ? Any suggested strategies or fly patterns we can use ? Do the trout readily take them ?

They do have a tendency to fall in the water.  I’ve seen trout take them on the Gunpowder but you could probably count on catfish, bass, and just about anything big enough to eat them taking one.  A large unweighted muddler should have a passable contour and when properly presented should make the necessary ‘plopping’ sound to initiate a strike.  It make take a few days for the fish to realize that the cicadas are food since they are big enough to scare off the less aggressive fish.   —     David J. Ebinger                     330-453-5180     Ebinger Equipment Co.                Fax 453-7113     http://www.bright.net/~ebco/

Response:

Spent the summer on Cape Cod in 79 and the Circadia hatch was wild. Dark brown beetle looking creatures if I remember. But hey it’s been a while. The hatch is incredible as it matures in about three days. They don’t stay around too long. About a week was the total duration. I’m sure the trout take them but for the short period ot time the hatch is around it’s not worth tying for.

Response:

An article in today’s paper discusses the imminent hatch in the Eastern   U.S. of billions of cicadas in their 17 year cycle. They are huge, winged insects and I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what it was like during the last hatch in ‘79 ? Any suggested strategies or fly patterns we can use ? Do the trout readily take them ?

Response: