Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My most productive winter fly is a Purple Egg Sucking Leech (basically a purple wooley bugger with two turns of chartreuse, flame orange, or bright pink chenille at the head) on a size 4 or 6 hook. The second most productive is one I  call a Clown fly – basically a take-off of a Clown  colored Corkie – a fat body that is one half chartreuse chenille and half  flame orange chenille, with an oversized (2x normal +)white webby saddle hackle on a size 4 -8  standard steelhead bait hook (Gamakatsu or similar). I tie the PESL either weighted or unweighted – use the unweighted in large pools where I can effectively use a fast sink tip and get a good swing (short leader ~ 3′).  On other water I use a floating line, 9-12′ leader, & heavily weighted  PESL with the clown fly dropped off the bend about 18-24". When the water is low and clear and the fish tend to be skittish, a small (12-16) nymph (GRHE, PT, Copper John, etc.) on a 24" dropper from the weighted fly can be very effective. When you really need to get down, a very effective fly here (but one I really hate to use – pure chuck & duck) is the lead-eyed leech – a maribou leech in any of the standard colors with large lead (or tungsten) dumbell eyes.

That’s interesting to find your fly list both short and conventional – sometimes I think I try too hard.  My most productive fly this past season and a half was a purple and black marabou spey with a large, purple Krystal Flash wing and a large neon red head – very close to your PESL.  Last year I did OK dead drifting a black ESL under an indicator, but didn’t get a tap when I swung it. When I need to get really down, I try to avoid the lead eyes, preferring heavy duty sinking heads. I hate to fish deep for steelhead; much prefering to catch them on or near the top. So I pay alot of attention to water temperature.  I have found that if the water temp is above 41deg.F, I can be reasonably successful fishing with a floating line, standard unweighted steelhead patterns ( Skunk, GBS, Purple Peril, etc.) and using either wet fly swing or greased line presentations.  In fact, if the water temp is over 44deg. F, I can have reasonable success fishing riffling patterns ( Bomber, Moose Turd, Waller Walker, etc.) on the surface.  There is no denying though, that much below 45deg F water, you will usually be more successful  going deep rather than fishing on or near the surface for steelhead.  I’ve reached a point though that I’d rather catch fewer fish using methods I really enjoy than employ methods that I find to be not nearly as much fun. Bob Weinberger

Ya, that’s my curse too, persisting with what I like rather than what is needed to catch fish.  Frankly, I think of late I’ve been running too deep, snagging bottom constantly, then switching off to a lighter rig and zooming it over their heads.  This back ‘n forth comes from constantly trying new water of uncertain depth rather than plugging away at the same old, same old and getting to know the depths and features very well.  It certainly reduces my catch rate but perversely, I find it more interesting. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Out this morning, one tap only.  It felt like the fish was nipping at the tail of the fly (rather long) and later when I got a call from a local steelheader, he mentioned that he moves to shorter flies as the fish don’t hit as aggressively when the temps drop. Since we have a few PNW steelheaders here, I’m wondering what they like to use as a winter fly.  The local float rodders tend to use a roe sack that makes the eggs look milky white and chartreuse so I’ve just finished a marabou spey fly that is white over chartreuse – should have the desired appearance.  The local shop owner likes purple, purple and black, or red and black as well. Also curious if you’ve noticed winter steelhead being willing to raise up a foot or so to snare a fly?   I spent too much time on the river bottom beautification program this morning as my tip was too heavy for the slower water, yet when I’m not hitting bottom, I’m second guessing myself about the fly being where the fish are.  The hit btw, was in the middle of a fast, heavy riffle and judging by the tap, tap, tap, the fish was chasing and nipping. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Snip Since we have a few PNW steelheaders here, I’m wondering what they like to use as a winter fly.

Snip My most productive winter fly is a Purple Egg Sucking Leech (basically a purple wooley bugger with two turns of chartreuse, flame orange, or bright pink chenille at the head) on a size 4 or 6 hook. The second most productive is one I  call a Clown fly – basically a take-off of a Clown  colored Corkie – a fat body that is one half chartreuse chenille and half  flame orange chenille, with an oversized (2x normal +)white webby saddle hackle on a size 4 -8  standard steelhead bait hook (Gamakatsu or similar). I tie the PESL either weighted or unweighted – use the unweighted in large pools where I can effectively use a fast sink tip and get a good swing (short leader ~ 3′).  On other water I use a floating line, 9-12′ leader, & heavily weighted  PESL with the clown fly dropped off the bend about 18-24". When the water is low and clear and the fish tend to be skittish, a small (12-16) nymph (GRHE, PT, Copper John, etc.) on a 24" dropper from the weighted fly can be very effective. When you really need to get down, a very effective fly here (but one I really hate to use – pure chuck & duck) is the lead-eyed leech – a maribou leech in any of the standard colors with large lead (or tungsten) dumbell eyes. Snip Also curious if you’ve noticed winter steelhead being willing to raise up a foot or so to snare a fly?

Snip I hate to fish deep for steelhead; much prefering to catch them on or near the top. So I pay alot of attention to water temperature.  I have found that if the water temp is above 41deg.F, I can be reasonably successful fishing with a floating line, standard unweighted steelhead patterns ( Skunk, GBS, Purple Peril, etc.) and using either wet fly swing or greased line presentations.  In fact, if the water temp is over 44deg. F, I can have reasonable success fishing riffling patterns ( Bomber, Moose Turd, Waller Walker, etc.) on the surface.  There is no denying though, that much below 45deg F water, you will usually be more successful  going deep rather than fishing on or near the surface for steelhead.  I’ve reached a point though that I’d rather catch fewer fish using methods I really enjoy than employ methods that I find to be not nearly as much fun. Bob Weinberger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter

Response:

Question:

Any experienced anglers have the goods on where to fish in Kentucky and what type of species there are here? Just moved here from Alaska and miss the fishing already. Thanks

Response:

Not sure what you mean by experienced but assuming you mean trout. In Jimmy Jacobs book on Fly Fishing the Southern Applachians he mentions eastern KY briefly, and I remember him saying at a club meeting once "that he was disappointed" in what he found in the state. There is a tailwater fishery near Georgetown and several creeks, mostly stocked from about an hour east of Louisville to the border. I remember vaguely an Orvis shop near an outdoors store in Lousiville and another tackle shop with a good fly fishing selection. In Lexington i remember an Orvis shop in the mall near the Radison and another store in town which sold fly tackle. One of them, can’t remember which one gave me some directions to a few streams. I’ve not been back since 1998 and do not know if any of those places are still in business or what has changed. There is no shortage of water for bass and panfish however. Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any experienced anglers have the goods on where to fish in Kentucky and what type of species there are here? Just moved here from Alaska and miss the fishing already. Thanks

Response:

Question:

What is not good is your honesty.

Cheap shot George, remember our private email exchange a while back?…..You’re life is an open book and subject to much scrutiny. I expect that there will be an open and public apology for questioning my honesty over a contrary opinion to a rather insignificant product. Since your rather public apology a few months ago, I have tried to live and let live with you but you have now made another enemy George. Your former friend Wayne Knight

Response:

… However, I still maintain that prior waterproofing of the fly and the use of drying crystals or amodou (spelling) is the way to go.

Agree with Louie on this one. Amadou is a fungus that dries flies instantly with just a touch. Touch the fly with the magic mushroom, and it’s dry. It was used extensively "in the old days", but it’s rather expensive, and low tech, so has fallen out of favor. — Ken Fortenberry- fond of natural, organic, low tech solutions

Response:

____  All you need to do is whip dry and apply to surface of water.  If you need to reapply, I’d say you need to just rinse the fish slime off your fly and cast it again.  I only have to dress a fly once, while still dry and use it all day.  You may be using very heavy hooks in your dry flies. I’d have to see what your doing. Outside that, use any dry fly dressing you want. — MrG/American Sportsman You’re weasling George.  I use the same hooks most folks use,

including on dry flies I buy in reputable fly shops.  Face it, you engaged in Spam and made a false claim.  If a person uses Gink, and I may not in the future, one must reapply it several times during the day if you are catching fish, especially due to fish slime.  Just washing the slime off and whipping the fly still will not consistently float the fly high and dry without a reapplication.  Enough already. PatK http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

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Response:

Hi All, Most companies sell a liquid solution that has Scotch Guard plus other ingredients that you can treat all your dry flies with after you tie or buy them or once a year. Some of them are Hydrostop, New Fly Kote and Water Shed. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a silly question, but I have to ask… Does anybody have an opinion (that’s the silly part) regarding ‘Water Shed’ the so-called ‘Permanent Waterproofing Liquid’ or similar ‘permanent’ floatant products? I was looking at different fly dressings and found several references to this product.  One page has it listed with George Gehrke’s Gink & Xink products–all three at the same price.  Gink is sold as the "World’s Best Dry Fly Dressing" but is also advertised as providing ‘only’ hours of floatation. It seems that if Water Shed were truly permanent, that it would be quite the bargain. Looking forward to ensuing debate, Tom Before you buy.

Response:

The best floatant is anything that is not Gink and has a cap that is attached to the bottle by a little plastic connection so it won’t fall in the river when you pop the top off. eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a silly question, but I have to ask… Does anybody have an opinion (that’s the silly part) regarding ‘Water Shed’ the so-called ‘Permanent Waterproofing Liquid’ or similar ‘permanent’ floatant products? I was looking at different fly dressings and found several references to this product.  One page has it listed with George Gehrke’s Gink & Xink products–all three at the same price.  Gink is sold as the "World’s Best Dry Fly Dressing" but is also advertised as providing ‘only’ hours of floatation. It seems that if Water Shed were truly permanent, that it would be quite the bargain. Looking forward to ensuing debate, Tom Before you buy.

Response:

You are getting to be a real pain again. If you would stop changing your name, at least the filter would work.  You simply will not wash as an expert on honesty.  Just in case you still have not got it, even if gink was the best fly-floatant in the whole damn world, most people on here would not use it because you make it, and you are a bloody nuisance to say the least. It is a mystery to me that you simply do not realise what a fool you continuously make of yourself on here. Give it a bloody rest for God

Question:

So Ken, are you a shill for george or one of his multiple personalities?

Now THAT is an address that lacks integrity and honesty.  Put it in your ear G2.  You posted this WHILE in the chat room.  Well pal, I’m still there.  Come and get it! George Gehrke — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

Sorry G, I was in your chat room one night a long time ago and found no reason to return. I certainly wasn’t there last night. As far as "come and get it". I don’t like spam. With regards to the Email – the last time I put an email on a news group my inbox got filled with garbage from those like yourself. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So Ken, are you a shill for george or one of his multiple personalities? Now THAT is an address that lacks integrity and honesty.  Put it in your ear G2.  You posted this WHILE in the chat room.  Well pal, I’m still there.  Come and get it! George Gehrke — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

So Ken, are you a shill for george or one of his multiple personalities?

That was beautifully written.   Thanks for sharing that. Have you read any of the books from Roderick Haig-Brown?  His words are so eloquent and thoughts so devine.  I recommend his books too all who are interested in reading about fly fishing.  But he goes further than that. You learn about his interests, his childhood, his hopes, and you might even learn a few things about life. Ken. _____  I have been an avid fly fisherman ever since I was 10 years old, beginning with an old South Bend my Grandfather, Theodore Kurczak had

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – crack at those 10 pound plus brown trout and larger bows. Mr.G. — http://www.gink.com

Response:

Didn’t you know G2 Marsh that ROFF is Darwinian and Shakespearean and that all the parts are played by me?   So Ken, are you a shill for george or one of his multiple personalities?

____  Marsh, that you use a disguise to come to the Chat Site for Fly Fisherman makes you a sick puppy.  You were her tonight and when you could not get anyone’s ire up, you went away with your tail between your legs.  It seems you just cannot function on love and kindness pal. Please get a life other then with the Federal Government. But you’re still welcome in spite of yourself.  You couldn’t take the heat of kindness and you left the kitchen.  You just can’t handle niceness, huh? : ) Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

_____  I have been an avid fly fisherman ever since I was 10 years old, beginning with an old South Bend my Grandfather, Theodore Kurczak had purchased back during the great depression.  Those were the days of trying times when the entire family used to walked the railroad tracks out in the country picking up coal dumped or fallen off the steam engines of that era.  It was the days during 1934, the year I was born that my mother would walk three miles to the five points area of Toledo to buy me a quart of milk at black market prices.  The days of rationing stamps during world war two was full bloom when I was five, six, and then seven years old.  Trading gasoline stamps for food and the victory gardens where whole city parks were plowed under and for two or three dollars, a small garden plot could be planted by families to grow vegetables.  Food for our Armed Forces was in great demand and anything that helped feed America was considered.  It was the days of great integrity and honesty.  When away and not attending the garden every Saturday near DeVilbiss School, the hundreds of plots remained intact and not one tomato, not one radish, not one head of lettuce was ever stolen.  It was an era of unusual times. The fly rod was used to reach out in local creeks to catch bullheads and anything that would provide a share of much needed protein.  The war efforts greatest demand for preserved meats for our soldiers went into Spam Cans and on Spam the American Army marched across Europe and the Pacific Islands. Well, I was given this old South Bend Fly Rod and it was like new.  My parents sold out right after the war and bought a forty acre farm out in the country and with me went that fly rod.  Actually, fly rods are more useful in the country anyhow and this one was no exception.  Some of those stories of my youth have been hinted about in past articles such as "The Makings of a Fly Fisherman" ( see: http://www.gink.com/makeflyfisherman.htm ) It takes years to learn the progressive secrets in the world of trout. One needs to understand water if they are to understand trout.  More thought is given to flies and tying them and to all the trimmings that go with the pursuit rather then the thought necessary to understand rivers, and the timeless waters that bed there.  This moving entity is a witchcraft cauldron of churning possibilities.  If we can understand the rivers that contain this moving home year around may we possibly understand the magic’s that happen in a place we seldom see.  We stand in air and trout are below our feet mocking the higher intellect (it seems) under a window of imperfect vision as long as its moving.  In that, there is a certain danger that lurks for both.  One can drown in the water and the other drowns out of it. After spring run off, the modern day angler waits for the seasonal exodus of summer vacations when the rivers of no return get lower and lower and concentrations of trout are condensed into smaller and smaller runs and pools.  The lowest level on most rivers is just prior to Spring run off.  That month is around April just before those April showers that bring the flowers that bloom in May.  Around the 40th parallel, the colder latitudes are best fished with midges and very early types of small stone flies.  What is not realized is the really BIG FISH during all these more confined times do not come out except at night.  The big rainbows and browns and cutthroat and brook trout are actually nocturnal animals.  The are big because they have learned that they are prey to things much larger then they.  So they hide beneath under cut banks, log jams, deep under huge rocks and boulders and under deep rapids where the window above is broken and they cannot be seen.  As with humans, every day we live is a gift . . . and that is why each day is called ‘a present’. Spring comes with each days higher azimuths of the rising sun that softens the snows.  They start to bleed, unwillingly but give up the blood of life to the thirsty earth below.  The streams swell and as they do the soils run with the thaw.  The rivers turn darker and darker until the waters are a torrent of chaos and terror. Yet, the trout lives.  The trout adapt.  The trout move to the friction dragging shore lines where the current pulls on the banks, trying to draw them in, but no they hold fast. The river edges during the spring are a forest of trout who are not willing to be involved deep in the low visibility of the central rivers.  The torrents roll debris upon them including rolling stones that can kill or injure them.  If you can see the danger coming, you might have a chance.  If you can’t see, its suicide to stay there. The trout move to safety and that is to the edge of the river where the current is less and where the food is plenty. This is the time of streamers.  I fish more Zonkers and Muddlers during the spring run off then at any other time of the year.  One only needs hip waders and need not even get their feet wet for all that it matters.  A length of fly line out, cast maybe 10 degrees out into the edge of the main current and letting it swing back toward shore and them twitching and working it back, upstream to yourself can be deadly.  The fish don’t come often but when they do, they are hefty and much larger. Spring run off edge fly fishing (whew, what a mouthful) can be the most startling revelation to any fly fisherman who has never done it before. The worse the river looks, the better and more concentrated are the trout packed along the edge. So think about this coming spring run off.  Don’t miss this time of great opportunity as a fly fisherman.  It is the best time to get a crack at those 10 pound plus brown trout and larger bows. Mr.G.   — http://www.gink.com

Response:

That was beautifully written.   Thanks for sharing that. Have you read any of the books from Roderick Haig-Brown?  His words are so eloquent and thoughts so devine.  I recommend his books too all who are interested in reading about fly fishing.  But he goes further than that. You learn about his interests, his childhood, his hopes, and you might even learn a few things about life. Ken. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____  I have been an avid fly fisherman ever since I was 10 years old, beginning with an old South Bend my Grandfather, Theodore Kurczak had purchased back during the great depression.  Those were the days of trying times when the entire family used to walked the railroad tracks out in the country picking up coal dumped or fallen off the steam engines of that era.  It was the days during 1934, the year I was born that my mother would walk three miles to the five points area of Toledo to buy me a quart of milk at black market prices.  The days of rationing stamps during world war two was full bloom when I was five, six, and then seven years old.  Trading gasoline stamps for food and the victory gardens where whole city parks were plowed under and for two or three dollars, a small garden plot could be planted by families to grow vegetables.  Food for our Armed Forces was in great demand and anything that helped feed America was considered.  It was the days of great integrity and honesty.  When away and not attending the garden every Saturday near DeVilbiss School, the hundreds of plots remained intact and not one tomato, not one radish, not one head of lettuce was ever stolen.  It was an era of unusual times. The fly rod was used to reach out in local creeks to catch bullheads and anything that would provide a share of much needed protein.  The war efforts greatest demand for preserved meats for our soldiers went into Spam Cans and on Spam the American Army marched across Europe and the Pacific Islands. Well, I was given this old South Bend Fly Rod and it was like new.  My parents sold out right after the war and bought a forty acre farm out in the country and with me went that fly rod.  Actually, fly rods are more useful in the country anyhow and this one was no exception.  Some of those stories of my youth have been hinted about in past articles such as "The Makings of a Fly Fisherman" ( see: http://www.gink.com/makeflyfisherman.htm ) It takes years to learn the progressive secrets in the world of trout. One needs to understand water if they are to understand trout.  More thought is given to flies and tying them and to all the trimmings that go with the pursuit rather then the thought necessary to understand rivers, and the timeless waters that bed there.  This moving entity is a witchcraft cauldron of churning possibilities.  If we can understand the rivers that contain this moving home year around may we possibly understand the magic’s that happen in a place we seldom see.  We stand in air and trout are below our feet mocking the higher intellect (it seems) under a window of imperfect vision as long as its moving.  In that, there is a certain danger that lurks for both.  One can drown in the water and the other drowns out of it. After spring run off, the modern day angler waits for the seasonal exodus of summer vacations when the rivers of no return get lower and lower and concentrations of trout are condensed into smaller and smaller runs and pools.  The lowest level on most rivers is just prior to Spring run off.  That month is around April just before those April showers that bring the flowers that bloom in May.  Around the 40th parallel, the colder latitudes are best fished with midges and very early types of small stone flies.  What is not realized is the really BIG FISH during all these more confined times do not come out except at night.  The big rainbows and browns and cutthroat and brook trout are actually nocturnal animals.  The are big because they have learned that they are prey to things much larger then they.  So they hide beneath under cut banks, log jams, deep under huge rocks and boulders and under deep rapids where the window above is broken and they cannot be seen.  As with humans, every day we live is a gift . . . and that is why each day is called ‘a present’. Spring comes with each days higher azimuths of the rising sun that softens the snows.  They start to bleed, unwillingly but give up the blood of life to the thirsty earth below.  The streams swell and as they do the soils run with the thaw.  The rivers turn darker and darker until the waters are a torrent of chaos and terror. Yet, the trout lives.  The trout adapt.  The trout move to the friction dragging shore lines where the current pulls on the banks, trying to draw them in, but no they hold fast. The river edges during the spring are a forest of trout who are not willing to be involved deep in the low visibility of the central rivers.  The torrents roll debris upon them including rolling stones that can kill or injure them.  If you can see the danger coming, you might have a chance.  If you can’t see, its suicide to stay there. The trout move to safety and that is to the edge of the river where the current is less and where the food is plenty. This is the time of streamers.  I fish more Zonkers and Muddlers during the spring run off then at any other time of the year.  One only needs hip waders and need not even get their feet wet for all that it matters.  A length of fly line out, cast maybe 10 degrees out into the edge of the main current and letting it swing back toward shore and them twitching and working it back, upstream to yourself can be deadly.  The fish don’t come often but when they do, they are hefty and much larger. Spring run off edge fly fishing (whew, what a mouthful) can be the most startling revelation to any fly fisherman who has never done it before. The worse the river looks, the better and more concentrated are the trout packed along the edge. So think about this coming spring run off.  Don’t miss this time of great opportunity as a fly fisherman.  It is the best time to get a crack at those 10 pound plus brown trout and larger bows. Mr.G. — http://www.gink.com

Response:

Ken, If you really liked that go to George’s chat or his bulletin board. It is full of George’s prose. George, Since these messages disappear off of the mail servers maybe you should post them to your bulletin board and preserve them. Then when people like ken want to read them they know where to go. sf

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That was beautifully written.   Thanks for sharing that. Have you read any of the books from Roderick Haig-Brown?  His words are so eloquent and thoughts so devine.  I recommend his books too all who are interested in reading about fly fishing.  But he goes further than that. You learn about his interests, his childhood, his hopes, and you might even learn a few things about life. Ken. _____  I have been an avid fly fisherman ever since I was 10 years old, beginning with an old South Bend my Grandfather, Theodore Kurczak had purchased back during the great depression.  Those were the days of trying times when the entire family used to walked the railroad tracks out in the country picking up coal dumped or fallen off the steam engines of that era.  It was the days during 1934, the year I was born that my mother would walk three miles to the five points area of Toledo to buy me a quart of milk at black market prices.  The days of rationing stamps during world war two was full bloom when I was five, six, and then seven years old.  Trading gasoline stamps for food and the victory gardens where whole city parks were plowed under and for two or three dollars, a small garden plot could be planted by families to grow vegetables.  Food for our Armed Forces was in great demand and anything that helped feed America was considered.  It was the days of great integrity and honesty.  When away and not attending the garden every Saturday near DeVilbiss School, the hundreds of plots remained intact and not one tomato, not one radish, not one head of lettuce was ever stolen.  It was an era of unusual times. The fly rod was used to reach out in local creeks to catch bullheads and anything that would provide a share of much needed protein.  The war efforts greatest demand for preserved meats for our soldiers went into Spam Cans and on Spam the American Army marched across Europe and the Pacific Islands. Well, I was given this old South Bend Fly Rod and it was like new.  My parents sold out right after the war and bought a forty acre farm out in the country and with me went that fly rod.  Actually, fly rods are more useful in the country anyhow and this one was no exception.  Some of those stories of my youth have been hinted about in past articles such as "The Makings of a Fly Fisherman" ( see: http://www.gink.com/makeflyfisherman.htm ) It takes years to learn the progressive secrets in the world of trout. One needs to understand water if they are to understand trout.  More thought is given to flies and tying them and to all the trimmings that go with the pursuit rather then the thought necessary to understand rivers, and the timeless waters that bed there.  This moving entity is a witchcraft cauldron of churning possibilities.  If we can understand the rivers that contain this moving home year around may we possibly understand the magic’s that happen in a place we seldom see.  We stand in air and trout are below our feet mocking the higher intellect (it seems) under a window of imperfect vision as long as its moving.  In that, there is a certain danger that lurks for both.  One can drown in the water and the other drowns out of it. After spring run off, the modern day angler waits for the seasonal exodus of summer vacations when the rivers of no return get lower and lower and concentrations of trout are condensed into smaller and smaller runs and pools.  The lowest level on most rivers is just prior to Spring run off.  That month is around April just before those April showers that bring the flowers that bloom in May.  Around the 40th parallel, the colder latitudes are best fished with midges and very early types of small stone flies.  What is not realized is the really BIG FISH during all these more confined times do not come out except at night.  The big rainbows and browns and cutthroat and brook trout are actually nocturnal animals.  The are big because they have learned that they are prey to things much larger then they.  So they hide beneath under cut banks, log jams, deep under huge rocks and boulders and under deep rapids where the window above is broken and they cannot be seen.  As with humans, every day we live is a gift . . . and that is why each day is called ‘a present’. Spring comes with each days higher azimuths of the rising sun that softens the snows.  They start to bleed, unwillingly but give up the blood of life to the thirsty earth below.  The streams swell and as they do the soils run with the thaw.  The rivers turn darker and darker until the waters are a torrent of chaos and terror. Yet, the trout lives.  The trout adapt.  The trout move to the friction dragging shore lines where the current pulls on the banks, trying to draw them in, but no they hold fast. The river edges during the spring are a forest of trout who are not willing to be involved deep in the low visibility of the central rivers.  The torrents roll debris upon them including rolling stones that can kill or injure them.  If you can see the danger coming, you might have a chance.  If you can’t see, its suicide to stay there. The trout move to safety and that is to the edge of the river where the current is less and where the food is plenty. This is the time of streamers.  I fish more Zonkers and Muddlers during the spring run off then at any other time of the year.  One only needs hip waders and need not even get their feet wet for all that it matters.  A length of fly line out, cast maybe 10 degrees out into the edge of the main current and letting it swing back toward shore and them twitching and working it back, upstream to yourself can be deadly.  The fish don’t come often but when they do, they are hefty and much larger. Spring run off edge fly fishing (whew, what a mouthful) can be the most startling revelation to any fly fisherman who has never done it before. The worse the river looks, the better and more concentrated are the trout packed along the edge. So think about this coming spring run off.  Don’t miss this time of great opportunity as a fly fisherman.  It is the best time to get a crack at those 10 pound plus brown trout and larger bows. Mr.G. — http://www.gink.com

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Question:

Yep, I know, probably two words you don’t expect to see in the same sentence, but check this out: Last week, Walt Winter ended a piece of correspondence by wishing me tight lines and screaming reels.  I left the next day for three days on the Miramichi to fish for Atlantic Salmon.  Hooked and landed 4 the first day, biggest one was 15 lbs.  Next day, hooked 4 and landed 1. River was up and dirty from snowmelt the next day, so I didn’t fish.   That pretty much beats any whole salmon SEASON I’ve ever enjoyed, never mind a single weekend.  Talk about your tight lines and screaming reels: just about toasted my old Beaudex. I attribute this success 100% to Walt, so if you ever get email from him that ends with ‘tight lines and screaming reels’, drop everything and get the hell to the river.  Probably wouldn’t hurt to carry a paper copy of the email, either, as extra insurance. thanks walt brent

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yep, I know, probably two words you don’t expect to see in the same sentence, but check this out: Last week, Walt Winter ended a piece of correspondence by wishing me tight lines and screaming reels.  I left the next day for three days on the Miramichi to fish for Atlantic Salmon.  Hooked and landed 4 the first day, biggest one was 15 lbs.  Next day, hooked 4 and landed 1. River was up and dirty from snowmelt the next day, so I didn’t fish. That pretty much beats any whole salmon SEASON I’ve ever enjoyed, never mind a single weekend.  Talk about your tight lines and screaming reels: just about toasted my old Beaudex. I attribute this success 100% to Walt, so if you ever get email from him that ends with ‘tight lines and screaming reels’, drop everything and get the hell to the river.  Probably wouldn’t hurt to carry a paper copy of the email, either, as extra insurance. thanks walt brent

anytime my friend. dang wayno, these distilled mountain phenacite brews work! waldo the soothsayer? —                 waldo’s palmistry and flyshop      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604     ezflyfish.com for your flyfishing gear:           http://www.ezflyfish.com

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waldo the soothsayer?

Careful there, Walt.  Next think you know you’ll start playing with snakes, and…well, just remember what happened to Cassandra… — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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waldo the soothsayer? Careful there, Walt.  Next think you know you’ll start playing with snakes, and…well, just remember what happened to Cassandra… — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

        bob, in watauga county, nc, playing with snakes is a prerequisite to graduation from high school.   don’t you fret about ol waldo and them timber rattlers. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Hello. I’ve been reding about these wonderful spey casts and all the articles say the advantages but they never tell you how to do it. I wuould love it if someone could give me instructions on this. Thank you. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

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My name is clayton and i live in British Columbia Canada, i spey-fish all the time on the rivers up here and love it. The best advice i can give you is to find a video made by Derek Brown from Scotland. I did a course with him this summer and he was excellant teacher. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I’ve been reding about these wonderful spey casts and all the articles say the advantages but they never tell you how to do it. I wuould love it if someone could give me instructions on this. Thank you. Bryce Carron Santa Fe, Texas

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Hello. I’ve been reding about these wonderful spey casts and all the articles say the advantages but they never tell you how to do it.

 The best advice i can give you is to find a video made by Derek Brown from Scotland. I did a course with him this summer and he was excellant teacher.

Does this video deal only with classic double taper line spey casting or the extended weight forward "windcutter" or "Launcher" lines with which you shoot a lot of running line on each cast?  Most folks "south of the border" are going to be using the more modern line systems…  Jim Vincent has decent video for those types of lines, although he does seem to have a hard time with a left handed single spey.  I’m just waiting for the rivers to clear and the sea to lay down so I can once again answer the bait bouncers’ questions.  "It’s fourteen feet long",  "Yes you can catch steelhead on flies", etc. etc. etc.

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There is a very good book on speycasting by Hugh Falkus, published by Excellent Press. I think Kaufmann’s have it. The windcutter lines work very well, and I have one, but the major secret of spey casting is having a rod which is built for the task. I learnt to spey cast before I learnt how to do an overhead cast, so I am not bad at putting a line out, and twenty years experience says that you need a slow actioned rod to spey cast properly. Greenheart was popular for this very reason, and many bamboo rods were good, but the only really good spey casting rods I know of are in the Hardy range (Hardy Speycasters). You can get around the problem, if you have a stiffer rod, by using a sink tip line. This loads the rod more, and produces the curve that you need to form a proper spey loop. Andrew The History of Fly Fishing http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I’ve been reding about these wonderful spey casts and all the articles say the advantages but they never tell you how to do it. The best advice i can give you is to find a video made by Derek Brown from Scotland. I did a course with him this summer and he was excellant teacher. Does this video deal only with classic double taper line spey casting or the extended weight forward "windcutter" or "Launcher" lines with which you shoot a lot of running line on each cast?  Most folks "south of the border" are going to be using the more modern line systems…  Jim Vincent has decent video for those types of lines, although he does seem to have a hard time with a left handed single spey.  I’m just waiting for the rivers to clear and the sea to lay down so I can once again answer the bait bouncers’ questions.  "It’s fourteen feet long",  "Yes you can catch steelhead on flies", etc. etc. etc.

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Question:

If you leave them outside in a worm box, watch out for ants, they will go for the dead ones and really take over the whole box. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why your yard ? Wait till the rain falls and the temp. is about 54-56 deg. Go out in a neighborhood that doesn’t have curbs and pick them up off the street NEAR the edge of the grass. Put them in the fridge (about 45-50 deg.) in a container of damp (use rain water)buss bedding (wal-mart) and they will keep for weeks.(pick out the dead ones once in a while)..Enjoy                                                                       SuqRivGui                                                       Allen

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got a old crank telephone and some wire and a couple of long rods???…use your imagination and wear rubber boots and gloves.be sure to go when it is wet .  they can jump about 2-3′ so cath them in a bucket as they fall.  no mess. It also help to read any storey about Mark Twain to them exactually 34 minutes before cranking the phone..  

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I have heard of a few things to gather earthworms. {snip} Oh, there is one more way.  Lay in the yard and make a sound like an apple.

EXCELLENT!!!! Seriously, I can’t stop laughing!!! Remember: a bad day of fishing is better than a good day at work!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Once you have gone fishing, put the extra worms in a flower bed, or in your garden.  They will help the soil, and soon, you will have a reliable source of wigglies.  Don’t poison them with insecticides of fertilizer, though. Steve, the DsrtTravlr

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try a 5 gallon bucket of soapy water on damp ground that you know contains crawlers 10–15 minutes should have all you need.

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conesus lake (finger lakes region) $500/week see http://members.aol.com/cobbshill/cottage.html for details http://members.aol.com/cobbshill

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At dusk just put the sprinkler on in the front yard,  let it run for an hour or two, until the ground is soaked.  After dark turn it off, get your flashlight and pail and go pick them up.  Because of the water in the ground they will be lying right on top.  It works like a charm in my yard although it is kinda of a muddy procedure.  Good luck.. Lorry…….I fish, therefore I am

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I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard.  I’ve heard of sticking a pitch fork in the ground and wiggling it, watering the lawn, and a lot of other things, but from your personell experiences, what is the best way to get them?  Oh yeah, what is a GRUNT WORM?  Are they in Michigan or what?  And one more thing, besides this one, what is another good fishing newsgroup?  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

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I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard.  I’ve heard of sticking a pitch fork in the ground and wiggling it, watering the lawn, and a lot of other things, but from your personell experiences, what is the best way to get them?  Oh yeah, what is a GRUNT WORM?  Are they in Michigan or what?  And one more thing, besides this one, what is another good fishing newsgroup?  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

Hi Matt, If you have them in your yard it won’t be hard. Some people use electricity to get them out, but it can be a little dangerous. We went out at night with a can or bag and a little flashlight in our mouth on our hands and knees. You would see the night crawlers shin and then just grab them. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard.  I’ve heard of sticking a pitch fork in the ground and wiggling it, watering the lawn, and a lot of other things, but from your personell experiences, what is the best way to get them?  Oh yeah, what is a GRUNT WORM?  Are they in Michigan or what?  And one more thing, besides this one, what is another good fishing newsgroup?  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

I always liked catching night crawlers in Upstate Ny.  The night dew would usually bring them out.  You can find them just about everywhere, especially in gardens and flower beds. Alos, you need to wear sneakers and walk very lightly.  When you grab one, do not pull too hard or it will break off.  I first just stop it from going back in, and then pull gently straight up or at the angle of the hole.  Usually can get about 12 dozen in about 2 hours.   You can keep them easily enough, too.  We would buy the worm bedding, or mix some dirt with moist dead leaves.  Keep them in a large container in the basement where it is always cool and damp.  They’ll keep all summer, and will even reproduce. Good hunting, Joe

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I have heard of a few things to gather earthworms. One is electricity.  It is hazardous. Alternating current worm getters were sold, and then recalled when people ended up laying in the grass and writhing along with the worms.  I have heard that the current from a battery charger will work.  With any electricity, you have to be very careful.   Grunting for worms is when you take two thin pieces of wood about 2-3 feet long.  Originally, they used two barrel staves.  One was held with one hand pushing it down into the ground.  The other stave was raked across the one in the ground with a violin bow motion making a "grunting" noise. The frequency of the sounds would cause the worms to become uncomfortable, and they would come to the surface.   I have also heard that spraying a light bleach solution on grass makes them come out.  Don’t know what it does to the yard. I think that the time of day has a lot to do with gathering worms, with the evening and very early morning hours being the best.  I have had good success after a rain, too.   Oh, there is one more way.  Lay in the yard and make a sound like an apple. Once you have gone fishing, put the extra worms in a flower bed, or in your garden.  They will help the soil, and soon, you will have a reliable source of wigglies.  Don’t poison them with insecticides of fertilizer, though. Steve, the DsrtTravlr

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I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard. —  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

Find and get a product called "Worm-Up"  Believe me this stuff really works, is harmless both to the worms and your yard and you’ll get all the "Dew Worms" (which is what your "nite crawler" is usually called in Ontario!!!) that you’ll ever need!! Just follow the package instructions and you can pick ‘em up right  off the top of the ground, in broad daylight!!!!  Even in places where you’d never expect to find ‘em, like an asphalt driveway, maybe? I don’t have any commercial interest in this product, but I got a sample package at the "Canadian Sportsman Show" many years ago and when I found it really worked I went and bought some more! "Le Baron’s" always carries it in Canada, anyway. Phil

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Why your yard ? Wait till the rain falls and the temp. is about 54-56 deg. Go out in a neighborhood that doesn’t have curbs and pick them up off the street NEAR the edge of the grass. Put them in the fridge (about 45-50 deg.) in a container of damp (use rain water)buss bedding (wal-mart) and they will keep for weeks.(pick out the dead ones once in a while)..Enjoy                                                                       SuqRivGui                                                       Allen

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup. snip We still love you John. TimW The reference to Ted Williams was my selection for "who would you like to spend a day fishing with" — hardly a thread but I suppose they were trolling for references to their magazine. Now that I think of it, there aren’t many magazine references in ROFF or ROFFT. I certainly spend a lot more time these days fishing, tying and surfing the net and a lot less time reading magazines and watching TV. I cancelled FR&R last year and still haven’t read the September Fly Fisherman, let alone the just received December issue (don’t want to ruin the suspense by reading the November election results).

Me too.  The glossy magazines interest me little anymore.  There has to be something really worthwhile in an issue to buy one.   These newsgroups are much, much better. They are reader driven and not writer driven, in general.  In other words, ask and ye shall receive.  That is REAL value.  I’d just as soon not see the ng’s and the magazines cross paths, myself. TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup. snip We still love you John. TimW The reference to Ted Williams was my selection for "who would you like to spend a day fishing with" — hardly a thread but I suppose they were trolling for references to their magazine. Now that I think of it, there aren’t many magazine references in ROFF or ROFFT. I certainly spend a lot more time these days fishing, tying and surfing the net and a lot less time reading magazines and watching TV. I cancelled FR&R last year and still haven’t read the September Fly Fisherman, let alone the just received December issue (don’t want to ruin the suspense by reading the November election results). Me too.  The glossy magazines interest me little anymore.  There has to be something really worthwhile in an issue to buy one.   These newsgroups are much, much better. They are reader driven and not writer driven, in general.  In other words, ask and ye shall receive.  That is REAL value.  I’d just as soon not see the ng’s and the magazines cross paths, myself. TimW

I still get value from the two magazines I get, FF in Salt Waters and Saltwater FF, though it certainly is different from what we have here ! I think SWFF is still new enough in printed word that the zines haven’t become too repetitive, although I think there is definitely a danger of this happening in the future. If I digress to the whole George Resign stuff, and I hate to do so, it seems to me that the magazine format would have been much better for him, having the ‘writer driven’ nature that Tim alludes to. The glossies are great places for established, experienced fishermen to convey information that the reader can take or leave. Which of course means the ngs are much more fun !                                                 jc

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Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup.

hmmmmmm…. 8^) TimW

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Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup.

It’s like the researcher that does a lifes work and it ends up in a University filing cabinet…then some beer swillin’ jet-setter with a word processor comes along and hacks out an article in an afternoon (you get a mention in the biblio) and the next thing you know he’s doing book signings at the fern bar. We still love you John. TimW

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For those that haven’t seen it, the most recent issue of Fly Rod & Reel contains a seven page article on Flyfishing and the Internet. I did a brief scan of the article and it primarily talks about various web sites and includes a pretty extensive list of sites and describes some of the bigger sites such as Virtual Fly Shop, and several others. There is also a short section on "mailing lists and non-profit sites" (hint to commercial advertisers in r.o.f.f.) which includes a couple of short references to this newsgroup.  Here’s how they described us… "Sometimes outrageous and always interesting, the newsgroup is worth a regular stop.  The last time I checked there were threads on the influx of newcomers to Montan (don’t leave your California-plated car alone at night), on women fly fishers and on the work of FR&R conservation editor Ted Williams [ does anyone remember this last thread? - john].  There was also a considerable section written have thread with cow magnet haiku? Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Overall, the article covers quite a bit and seems to be well researched although there was no mention of *my* baby, the flytying newsgroup. snip We still love you John. TimW

The reference to Ted Williams was my selection for "who would you like to spend a day fishing with" — hardly a thread but I suppose they were trolling for references to their magazine. Now that I think of it, there aren’t many magazine references in ROFF or ROFFT. I certainly spend a lot more time these days fishing, tying and surfing the net and a lot less time reading magazines and watching TV. I cancelled FR&R last year and still haven’t read the September Fly Fisherman, let alone the just received December issue (don’t want to ruin the suspense by reading the November election results). Doug

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Question:

Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it demonstrated in classes, and have read various books – maybe there’s a simple trick I’m missing – what’s the magic? Thanks in advance, Jon Kreski — EDP Auditor 3 yrs experience (8 yrs Internal Audit)  -

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Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it

Classical answer is: — on bare metal shank (i.e. slippery;  thread coverage inhibits hair’s spinning uniformly) — place cleaned pinch of hair (fluff removed) — take not one but two turns of thread — initially loose, not tight — then tighten decisively, with a firm continuous pull. This should cause the hair to spin reasonably uniformly.  If so, then you can see about packing the whole rearwards with thumbnails, winding thread back and forward through the packed hair for extra firmness, etc. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it demonstrated in classes, and have read various books – maybe there’s a simple trick I’m missing – what’s the magic?

Hi Jon The trick in working with deer hair is the material being matched to the job.  If you are tying wings and tails you need one type of hair and if you are spinning the hair you need another type Wings & Tails – best hair is located on the hide along the back bone, the shoulder, and the rump.  In small packages this hair is best recognized by the dark grey color in the center part of the hair fibers. Spinning – best hair is located on the hide down on the rib and belly.   This hair is best recognized by the light grey color in the center part of the fiber. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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try wrapping loosely first slippin it in between yer thumband forefinger of the hand that yer holding the hair.  do this twice, successfully tighten and then buckle down.  Remember u can rebunch it and slide it back around the shank. stack it baby. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it demonstrated in classes, and have read various books – maybe there’s a simple trick I’m missing – what’s the magic? Thanks in advance, Jon Kreski — EDP Auditor 3 yrs experience (8 yrs Internal Audit)  -

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Question:

The shad run here in the Annapolis River of Nova Scotia is now at or near its peak peak.  The annual Shad Fishing tournament was just completed and for the second year in a row, the prize for the flyfishing catagory was determined by lot – i.e no shad were caught on the fly. Does anyone have any general advice re catching those darned things on a fly?  Sure would appreciate any help re patterns, method etc. Les

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The shad run here in the Annapolis River of Nova Scotia is now at or near its peak peak.  The annual Shad Fishing tournament was just completed and for the second year in a row, the prize for the flyfishing catagory was determined by lot – i.e no shad were caught on the fly. Does anyone have any general advice re catching those darned things on a fly?  Sure would appreciate any help re patterns, method etc. Les

These shad drove me nuts on the Merrimac for years. I always fished them quartering down, expecting a hit on the drift, like most salmonid type fish. Finally started hooking them by using a Hi-D head with a weighted fly on the bottom with very slow strips. Lose a lot of flies that way, but it’s the only way I could get them to hit. They fight great, but it’s almost like bait fishing :-

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It’s possible that our western experiences in flyfishing for Shad might be of some assistance.  We usually fish them in heavy water (8,000 cfs or better), and the key is finding their depth in the particular channel you are casting to.  I usually start with a Hi-D, extra fast sink shooting head, then work up.  Shad seem to travel at very specific depths on their upstream movements, and I have found they will not move very much to look at a fly.  The casting we use is a quarter upstream, then mend to give the fly a dead drift. ANY drag on the fly, and you might as well shoot again. Some strikes are very soft, so keep your index finger lightly under the shooting line to detect.  Other strikes (usually near the end of the drift) are like freight trains.  To summarize: look for proper depth, and MEND. If you’ll E-Mail me, I’ll send you by regular mail, two patterns that work very well out here.  They are bright (flourescent yellow is good) and beady-eyed.  The common crappie fly, available anywhere, works very well.

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