Question:

Walter got hold of some bad shine.  Brain has to be fried. Just to clear this up for those of you who don’t know or refuse to see it. Read the first two posts of the thread: Re. WARNING: CLEANING A 555 FLY LINE

http://makeashorterlink.com/?T2F0528D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you do not understand why Walt is upset, then you will never understand what propriety is, what good manners are, or the basic tenets of civility. Dave

Response:

Didn’t catch the whole flame, or even how it got started, but WOW! I go away for a week and find that someone’s beloved grandmother(s) got flamed?! I didn’t put the bullet in the vise, and you stop talking about my grandma! (For anyone who remembers Bill Cosby’s classic first comedy album.)

Nope.  Don’t remember that one.  Before my time. Walter got hold of some bad shine.  Brain has to be fried. gg

Response:

Well, my grandma (my mom’s mom) was quite a fisherman (oops, I guess that would be fisherwoman…) – she took me fishing all the time when I was a wee lad. Not only could she catch fish, she always had the amazing ability to stifle even the most obnoxious bullshitter. She was sacred indeed …

Grandma Lottie (on my mother’s side) was also one of those people whose memory evokes many stories.   She grew up on Maryland’s Eastern Shore and eloped with Clarence when she was sixteen, beginning what had to have been a hard life of farming, raising a passel of kids (all girls but one), and raising chickens. From my earliest childhood memories, they raised chickens in two long houses behind the house.   Trips to the farm almost always included dinners of fried chicken (and still the best dumplings in memory).   We never had any illusions of where the food came from; grandpop chopped off the heads right there in the dirt lane, and that night’s dinner would flop around the yard for a few strange minutes before being carried into the kitchen.   What’s for dinner?  Chicken. It was a rare ocasion that Grandmom left the farm to come to Baltimore; but when she came, we tried to show her "the big city".   We took her to one of the better restaurants in town, where there were nearly a hundred menu items; pork, veal, beef in the meat entrees; shrimp, scallops, fresh fish, under the seafood heading; a dozen different sausages (it was a German family restaurant).   After her sheltered existance on the farm, we had hoped to offer up a variety of tastes.   Instead, she tucked her napkin under her chin & ordered – fried chicken.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

my father’s mother, oma winter, was a fine german lady full of warmth, kindness, and love. she dressed and healed my opa’s wounds following the kaisers war. she collected twigs in the forest during the day so that opa, my father, and my uncles, horst and walter, would have warmth at night. she was the force that directed the family to america in 1922, leaving the depressed fatherland for a better dream….. and a better life for her three sons. she guided the winter family through ellis island with her meager english….. and further guided the family to their new home in cleveland, ohio. she toiled for a pittance in cleveland factories whilst opa searched for decent work. opa eventually found work in an oldsmobile plant, and the family began to have the graces of a better life. oma nearly died of heartbreak, when in the early 30’s, my uncle walter was fatally injured when he slipped and fell….. broke his neck training on the rings…. gymnastics. i, the first born, am named by my father in honor and memory of him. oma loved baseball. in 1954, being a long time indians fan, she had a ball signed by the world series indians. she sent it to father to be given to me as a gift…. the year i was born. i still have that baseball…. it means so much to me. when opa retired from oldsmobile, he and oma retired to clearwater, florida. i have wonderful memories of visiting with them as a child……. playing on the beach… picking and eating fresh oranges and grapefruits in the backyard. eating fresh baked buttercougan. opa died of old age in the early 60’s and my father moved oma to miami to be with us. oma passed away shortly thereafter….. i’ll never forget the tears passing from my father’s swollen eyes….. never. so mr. gherke, consider this fair warning. for the vitrolic slight of yours in an earlier thread today concerning my beloved and sorely missed grandmothers (shall i bring up ma-ma bryant?)…. plane tickets are cheap… and i am now your worst fucking nightmare. hope to see you on the henry’s fork…. sweet dreams, Walter Garett Winter ps…. this is EOT

Response:

Sir, in the finest of Southern tradition, may I offer to be your Second? — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – my father’s mother, oma winter, was a fine german lady full of warmth, kindness, and love. she dressed and healed my opa’s wounds following the kaisers war. she collected twigs in the forest during the day so that opa, my father, and my uncles, horst and walter, would have warmth at night. she was the force that directed the family to america in 1922, leaving the depressed fatherland for a better dream….. and a better life for her three sons. she guided the winter family through ellis island with her meager english….. and further guided the family to their new home in cleveland, ohio. she toiled for a pittance in cleveland factories whilst opa searched for decent work. opa eventually found work in an oldsmobile plant, and the family began to have the graces of a better life. oma nearly died of heartbreak, when in the early 30’s, my uncle walter was fatally injured when he slipped and fell….. broke his neck training on the rings…. gymnastics. i, the first born, am named by my father in honor and memory of him. oma loved baseball. in 1954, being a long time indians fan, she had a ball signed by the world series indians. she sent it to father to be given to me as a gift…. the year i was born. i still have that baseball…. it means so much to me. when opa retired from oldsmobile, he and oma retired to clearwater, florida. i have wonderful memories of visiting with them as a child……. playing on the beach… picking and eating fresh oranges and grapefruits in the backyard. eating fresh baked buttercougan. opa died of old age in the early 60’s and my father moved oma to miami to be with us. oma passed away shortly thereafter….. i’ll never forget the tears passing from my father’s swollen eyes….. never. so mr. gherke, consider this fair warning. for the vitrolic slight of yours in an earlier thread today concerning my beloved and sorely missed grandmothers (shall i bring up ma-ma bryant?)…. plane tickets are cheap… and i am now your worst fucking nightmare. hope to see you on the henry’s fork…. sweet dreams, Walter Garett Winter ps…. this is EOT

Response:

Walter got hold of some bad shine.  Brain has to be fried.

Just to clear this up for those of you who don’t know or refuse to see it. Read the first two posts of the thread: Re. WARNING: CLEANING A 555 FLY LINE If you do not understand why Walt is upset, then you will never understand what propriety is, what good manners are, or the basic tenets of civility.   Dave

Response:

She sounds like a great woman! Funny, my Grandma married a Clarence also… he was a wonderful man who also loved fishing, and did alot of hunting. We had many a dinner of venison, wild pheasant, quail, rabbit and squirrel… just to name a few. Grandma was somewhat diversified in her cooking, as long as she had her large, black, cast iron skillet with the renderings of last night’s meal in it. Fresh vegetables were a mainstay, which included her kick-ass dandelion greens. Her and I would go "out in the country" for a ride to collect the greens, then stop at the local farmer’s stand to get whatever veggie we needed – I usually talked her into corn. The day before we planned on going fishing, she would take me to the county dump to stock up on red worms. That place always had the healthiest looking red worms around, and the price was right… if you could stand the smell. I really miss those days… — SaltyWaders PS… Grandma’s sister-inlaw was named Lottie – another great woman who loved fishing!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Grandma Lottie (on my mother’s side) was also one of those people whose memory evokes many stories.   She grew up on Maryland’s Eastern Shore and eloped with Clarence when she was sixteen, beginning what had to have been a hard life of farming, raising a passel of kids (all girls but one), and raising chickens. From my earliest childhood memories, they raised chickens in two long houses behind the house.   Trips to the farm almost always included dinners of fried chicken (and still the best dumplings in memory).   We never had any illusions of where the food came from; grandpop chopped off the heads right there in the dirt lane, and that night’s dinner would flop around the yard for a few strange minutes before being carried into the kitchen.   What’s for dinner?  Chicken. It was a rare ocasion that Grandmom left the farm to come to Baltimore; but when she came, we tried to show her "the big city".   We took her to one of the better restaurants in town, where there were nearly a hundred menu items; pork, veal, beef in the meat entrees; shrimp, scallops, fresh fish, under the seafood heading; a dozen different sausages (it was a German family restaurant).   After her sheltered existance on the farm, we had hoped to offer up a variety of tastes.   Instead, she tucked her napkin under her chin & ordered – fried chicken.  :-)

Response:

Didn’t catch the whole flame, or even how it got started, but WOW!

Heck, don’t feel like the Lone Ranger Salty.  I didn’t catch the whole flame either! George

Response:

Didn’t catch the whole flame, or even how it got started, but WOW! I go away for a week and find that someone’s beloved grandmother(s) got flamed?!

I didn’t put the bullet in the vise, and you stop talking about my grandma! (For anyone who remembers Bill Cosby’s classic first comedy album.) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Walt Winter writes: I will be there, Walt, waiting for the village idiot to "bitch slap" me like he promised.  You hold my jacket and I’ll hold your’s.  Shouldn’t take too long….. if he shows, that is.  

Just a note, I won’t be a wearing a jacket in case some dumb fucker tries to start shit around my campfire.  You guys can go about 22.455861 feet from my campfire and do whatever the hell you want though. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Didn’t catch the whole flame, or even how it got started, but WOW! I go away for a week and find that someone’s beloved grandmother(s) got flamed?! What the hell happened here?! I guess I am probably better off not knowing and should keep my nose out of this… but is the topic here still fly fishing? I hope so… I really like this place. BTW, family folk are sacred in my book… — SaltyWaders "Old eyes can see salt flies…" [snip some great family memories...] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – so mr. gherke, consider this fair warning. for the vitrolic slight of yours in an earlier thread today concerning my beloved and sorely missed grandmothers (shall i bring up ma-ma bryant?)…. plane tickets are cheap… and i am now your worst fucking nightmare. hope to see you on the henry’s fork…. sweet dreams, Walter Garett Winter ps…. this is EOT

Response:

Salty Waders writes: BTW, family folk are sacred in my book…

And, they are sacred to all but one. Dave

Response:

Too bad for those who choose to belittle someone’s folks. Well, my grandma (my mom’s mom) was quite a fisherman (oops, I guess that would be fisherwoman…) – she took me fishing all the time when I was a wee lad. Not only could she catch fish, she always had the amazing ability to stifle even the most obnoxious bullshitter. She was sacred indeed … — SaltyWaders "Old eyes can see salt flies…"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Salty Waders writes: BTW, family folk are sacred in my book… And, they are sacred to all but one. Dave

Response:

my father’s mother, oma winter, was a fine german lady full of warmth, kindness, and love.

<snipped really good read The way I see it, anyone can insult me all they want; it’s like water off a duck’s back. When they start insulting family, it’s a different matter – and the story here is the best example why. No one has the right to trample on these kinds of memories. I’m with ya, Walt. FWIW, Tim

Response:

Walt Winter writes:

<warm memories snipped for brevity hope to see you on the henry’s fork…. sweet dreams,

I will be there, Walt, waiting for the village idiot to "bitch slap" me like he promised.  You hold my jacket and I’ll hold your’s.  Shouldn’t take too long….. if he shows, that is.   Dave

Response:

What Winter:  (Since you can’t spell my name correctly . . .) I really don’t care about your family history right now but when you think you can go around and insult me or others with impunity, you’re sure fire crazy! You’re memory is about as far as your next step.  Next time you insult someone, why don’t you keep the thread with the insult you find offending with your story?  That way, everything stays in sync.  Frankly, I don’t have the slightest idea what the hell you’re talking about.  Whatever I said, you probably deserved it.  Leave your family out of it. George Gehrke

Response:

Tell you what Walter.  Just come to the Western Conclave.  I know  you won’t come because unless someone else will pay your way.  You can’t afford much more than crossing the county line once every five years and this is only if you can hitch hike. Walt?  You’re all mouth.  There isn’t a man in all of Roff that I fear. Respect is another word all together.  Just remember this Walt.  Don’t start this nonsense.  I won’t start any fight with you or anyone else but I’ll sure enough finish it.  You can put me in the hospital and when I get out I’ll come after you again and again until the day I die.  Understand?  You don’t know what a nightmare is all about.  Don’t fuck with me and don’t threaten me or anyone else here in the West. Now then, that said . . . being a gentleman is an entirely different matter for you.  You don’t see me going out of my way insulting you, or Tom Brown, or Wayne Harrison, or Zimmerman, or Jeff Miller, or anyone in North Carolina,  but you did that to me.   I don’t do that.  It is YOU who has the loose mouth.  Go back and see what you said before you start this crap? Walt?  Go fuck yourself. Gentleman George "not guilty" I just don’t think your grandma deserves you.

Response:

Question:

I’m planning next year’s vacation.  I’d like to fish some rivers in Yellowstone National Park and the Henry’s fork.  As far as dry fly fishing goes, what month should I shoot for? thanks, Mike Oakland, CA

Response:

I’m planning next year’s vacation.  I’d like to fish some rivers in Yellowstone National Park and the Henry’s fork.  As far as dry fly fishing goes, what month should I shoot for? thanks, Mike Oakland, CA

It looks like you aren’t getting any feedback, Mike. Maybe people are just tired of talking about Yellowstone and Henry’s Fork. I suggest that you use a Google search to find the trip reports in ROFF for the Yellowstone Clave (in August) and the Henry’s Fork "clave prospecting" trip (in September). — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I’ve been there the last six years.  Only fished in the park and a small stretch of the Yellowstone outside the park.  For one of the guys, this would have been his 12th year, with up to three trips per year.  My opinion, and remember it’s opinion only, follows. There’s good dry fly fishing from end of June to end of August.  It could be good other times of the year, but I don’t know since I haven’t fished other times of the year. By mid July the run off is USUALLY tapered off where all the major streams are fishable.  You also may hit the Salmon Fly hatch.  The fish haven’t been pounded and are easier to catch.  I said "eaiser", not "easy"; but, then again, that depends on what you’re used to and your ability.  I hate the flys and mosquitos this time of the year; especially the all the black flys which do not respect insect repellant.  Also the water on the streams I like to fish are a bit high and fast.  It adds a pucker factor that an easterner like me is not accustomed to.  There are other things going on that may affect your choice such as claves and the FFF thing in Livingston.  Personally, we’re going out for ten days starting August 10th.  I like it then mostly due to the lack of bugs.  Also you don’t have to take a short friend along to go first across streams that seem a little too hairy to cross.  However some of the lakes, like Trout Lake may have a little too much algae at this time.  Just my opinion.  If you ask ten peole you’ll get 15 different opinions.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning next year’s vacation.  I’d like to fish some rivers in Yellowstone National Park and the Henry’s fork.  As far as dry fly fishing goes, what month should I shoot for? thanks, Mike Oakland, CA

Response:

Question:

Ya know….For all the loathing you receive from this group, there is nobody here that discredits you more than you discredit yourself. Over, and over, and over again, you prove just how huge a fraud you really are. It’s simply stunning…Boggles the mind, really. /daytripper (You even make Clinton look honest…)

Response:

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it…

I looked back on this, and it occurred to me that some might have thought I was making light of Charlie’s notice of G’s hanky-panky regarding his report.  In case there is any doubt, I meant to satire George’s "copyright" signature nonsense in _his_ posts contrasted with his willingness to completely ignore the intended purposes and even the copyrights on the work, including books, of others.  The fact that he has misrepresented, or plagiarized outright, others’ writings should come as no surprise. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

"I purchased a Gehrke bamboo rod in October of 1999 and wrote a long and thoughtful review of the rod. It was a decent rod despite a few cosmetic flaws (wrap gaps, spotty varnish, dirtiness beneath the varnish primarily at the nodes, use of epoxy instead of varnish on the wraps). Regardless, the rod was arguably worth the $383 despite its imperfections.

Or about the price of a used Granger in decent condition? While it would be a used rod, it would likely be free of the sort of imperfections you encountered. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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Reminds me of Arnold J. Rimmer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

Response:

)) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reminds me of Arnold J. Rimmer. — http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

Response:

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it…

Well, it seems he got a few people to go to his site, maybe it was in danger of fading away unless somebody looked (does a web site exist if nobody visits?). <g — Charlie…

Response:

No Dave it is AM(Almost M).Gink ain’t got what it takes to produce true FM.  For Flyfishers only: A bottle of Gink to make ‘em stink,A bottle of wine to make ‘em shine. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zimbo writes: I find it very curious that several of the entries in the guestbook seem to have been written over a year ago but magically appeared within a one-day span several days ago. I also find it interesting that despite there being a 25 character minimum size limit for a comment, many of the entries are fewer than 25 characters. It would seem unethical to transcribe dated testimonials to make them appear to be guestbook entries. It’s FM, Zim. Dave

Response:

George, Are we boasting or doing a little self promotion? Isn’t it amazing how 18 people from around the country all post testamonials within 40 minutes of each other. Paul

I find it amazing that Charlie Wilson just got back from the Western Clave…. what a trout bum! I don’t find it amazing at all that the crazed p.t. barnum lunatic of flyfishing did this…. kinda follows his pattern…. lies, lies, and more lies…. –walt

Response:

I find it amazing that Charlie Wilson just got back from the Western Clave…. what a trout bum!

    I found it amazing that the product report I posted to roff appeared on a commercial site…..

Response:

I find it amazing that Charlie Wilson just got back from the Western Clave…. what a trout bum!     I found it amazing that the product report I posted to roff appeared on a commercial site…..

there is that little, perchance illegal, indescretion. –walt

Response:

I find it amazing that Charlie Wilson just got back from the Western Clave…. what a trout bum!    I found it amazing that the product report I posted to roff appeared on a commercial site…..

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it… TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it…

Response:

Zimbo writes: I find it very curious that several of the entries in the guestbook seem to have been written over a year ago but magically appeared within a one-day span several days ago. I also find it interesting that despite there being a 25 character minimum size limit for a comment, many of the entries are fewer than 25 characters. It would seem unethical to transcribe dated testimonials to make them appear to be guestbook entries.

It’s FM, Zim. Dave

Response:

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it…

Well, as a last resort, you could duelly reprot him to his ISP…. TC, R

Response:

– http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

Response:

George, Are we boasting or doing a little self promotion? Isn’t it amazing how 18 people from around the country all post testamonials within 40 minutes of each other. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

Response:

http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

I find it very curious that several of the entries in the guestbook seem to have been written over a year ago but magically appeared within a one-day span several days ago. I also find it interesting that despite there being a 25 character minimum size limit for a comment, many of the entries are fewer than 25 characters. It would seem unethical to transcribe dated testimonials to make them appear to be guestbook entries. Since I’m quite certain my guestbook entry dated "Apr 5, 2001 – 04:18:42" will be promptly removed from Mr. Gehrke’s site, I have copied it in its entirety and included it here: "I purchased a Gehrke bamboo rod in October of 1999 and wrote a long and thoughtful review of the rod. It was a decent rod despite a few cosmetic flaws (wrap gaps, spotty varnish, dirtiness beneath the varnish primarily at the nodes, use of epoxy instead of varnish on the wraps). Regardless, the rod was arguably worth the $383 despite its imperfections. However, after receiving my rod several of my friends received rods in much poorer condition than mine. In fact, Mr. Gehrke actually had the brazen gall to send the same defective rod to several different individuals. When they returned the rod, he would become angry and make disparaging personal remarks about them on a the fly fishing newsgroup. He would then simply send the same rod to another unsuspecting individual. Mr. Gehrke’s dishonesty and misrepresentation combined with the $100 increased price for the model of rod I purchased make the product one I definitely do NOT recommend. Let the buyer beware." –Steve Zimmerman

Response:

Question:

I am going to try my hand at some Salmon fishing this year.  A friend of mine recommended that I get some running line for my reel.  He says that you can split in in half and make two running lines.  Questions:  1) Is this true?  2) What are the properties of a running line and what makes it different than other conventional fly lines? 3) Reputable brands?  Thank you in advance.

Response:

I am going to try my hand at some Salmon fishing this year.  A friend of mine recommended that I get some running line for my reel.  He says that you can split in in half and make two running lines.  Questions:  1) Is this true?  2) What are the properties of a running line and what makes it different than other conventional fly lines? 3) Reputable brands?  Thank you

Your friend may have meant to recommend backing, e.g. 30 lb. test braided dacron, to fill up the fly reel under the fly line.  This is needed for strong fish like salmon which may take out more line than the 30-35 yards of the fly line. "Running line" used to be sold by Scientific Anglers (perhaps still is) and was a thin level fly line (0.029 inches diameter) used by people who liked to splice their own tapers, e.g. with a shooting head.  (British reservoir anglers used to use heavy mono for both backing and running line.  Perhaps 20 years ago British mono curled less than American.) — |        Carlsbad Springs, Ottawa, Canada        |

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Question:

Hello! I tried fly fishing in the beautiful mountains of Lake Tahoe and found it a wonderful experience! I now live in Portland, Oregon and would like to take it up. I hear Oregon is a good spot for fly fishing. If anyone has any advise on how to get started, I would be very grateful… My children (2 girls) are 4 and 6 years old. I now have the opportunity to take a weekend and try this wonderful sport. I am looking for advise on: 1. Equipment to get started with (beginner stuff) 2. Places close to Portland to go and try this, without annoying the experts :^) 3. The times of year to go 4. Anyone who would like to have me tag along on a day trip… I am 29 and in good shape (for hiking into those "great spots"). The first time I tried it, I think I did fairly well (picking up on the motions). But I definitely need some pointers on what I might be doing incorrectly… Thanks! –Mike

Response:

check out http://www.csport.com site for countrysport fly fishing shop, downtown Portland. Very helpful and they hold classes for different levels on the Crooked River in central Oregon. Drop in and se them or give them a call. Don Beaverton

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Have a look at the Oregon section of the Anadromous page http://www.scotangling.com/oregon/reports.htm Lots of useful info and people to contact.

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Question:

Anyone know what kind of fishing there is in the Ann Arbor, MI area? Are there any decent spots (trout, smallmouth, walleye, pike, muskie) withing a short driving distance? Thanks in advance for any info. — Paul

Paul: You might check out MacGregor’s Orvis Shop on Main Street in Ann Arbor.  They are fine folks who are willing to show you locations on the Huron (some of which are just north of the U of Mich campus) to fish for smallmouth. I’m sorry I don’t have their phone number handy… In addition, the Michigan DNR plants trout the last weekend of March on the Huron twenty minutes from Ann Arbor in Proud Lake Recreation area.  From that time until the trout opener it’s fly’s only C&R.  For details call the Proud Lake DNR at 810.685.2433… Jim

Response:

Anyone know what kind of fishing there is in the Ann Arbor, MI area? Are there any decent spots (trout, smallmouth, walleye, pike, muskie) withing a short driving distance? Thanks in advance for any info. — Paul

Hi Paul- The Huron River runs through Ann Arbor and it is a decent smallmouth river. The closest real trout streams are 3 hours away (The Au Sable, Manistee to the north, The Rogue, Muskegon, White, Pere Marquette, etc are West to North west of Ann Arbor). There are a number of lakes near Ann Arbor with fish in them, but I am not a lake fisherman so I can’t advise you on walleye, pike, and muskie. Good Luck!

Response:

Anyone know what kind of fishing there is in the Ann Arbor, MI area? Are there any decent spots (trout, smallmouth, walleye, pike, muskie) withing a short driving distance? Thanks in advance for any info. — Paul

Response:

Question:

: While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I : have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey : those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The : questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod : for small to medium western rivers: : : 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which : manufacturers offer these designs? : : 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. : : 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis : GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad : experiences with these rods? : : 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? : : Thanks. : :       IMHO the Loomis GL3, 9 ft., 5 wt., 4 pc. travel rod is the : best value in those you mention. It is without peer as a casting : machine – the reason you use a fly rod in the first and only place. It : is extremely well built, has a life time warranty for defects – and in : my experience – a very liberal interperation of what defect is. The : Sage is a close second in choice – the other two are not worth : considering along side the Loomis and Sage. :       I am a custom rod builder and all of my rods are G. Loomis : IMX, and mostly 4 pc. now. For the high price end you will not go : wrong with a Loomis GL3 or the GL4 coming out to replace the IMX. : Also, if you are looking at high end, check out the Thomas & Thomas : Heritage series designed by Gary Borger. These are very nice casting : tools. I think this, and every other thread like it demonstrates one thing: everybody seems to have a favourite rod that they say is the "best" but there is no consensus overall. It is absolutely pointless to ask which rod is best because everybody will say that the rod they spent the most amount of money on is the best. Basically, I have come to the conclusion that all rods are exactly the same – Like designer jeans, it depends on what label you prefer. I have had a chance to fish with a "cheap" fenwick fiberglas import, a top of the line Sage rod and a T&T which I now own and I have to admit that I was able to cast effectively with all three. I have a friend who has been fishing most of his life (probably more than 20 years) and who swears by a Wal-mart special he bought for $35.00. He outfishes everyone he knows (except his wife ) and has caught everything from pike and atlantic salmon to rainbows in the tiniest streams with overhanging trees,shrubs and other detritus. I feel as if I have been sucked, like many others, into the myth that more expensive is better. All it does is put my income into the pockets of Orvis, Loomis, Sage and T&T executives. It is not the rod that makes the fisherman, it’s the enjoyment of being outdoors in a pristine river doing an activity that we love. Just my two pennies’ worth… Ken

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1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value.

St. Croix 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods?

Sage, I prefer the look.  Aside from that, Loomis is probably every bit as good if not better than the Sage.  Finally, if I could only have one rod, I’d buy the best of a lesser name vs the cheapest of a top name.   Thanks.

john

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? Thanks.

We are selling more multi-piece (3 or 4 piece) rods every year. Nine foot, three piece rods are very hot. Lots of old timers will be shocked at how well they perform. Twenty years ago we all had several 2 piece rods and then one 4 piece we used only for back-packing. Today, my staff and I are using only multi-piece rods. I would cast the rods that you are interested in and find one you like. You might consider the brands with unconditional life-time warranties. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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I’m a firm believer in travel rods, having owned Sage 3 pce 586 LL, a Sage 3 pce SP 490, a Fisher 6 pce 7-8 wt and a Diawa 5 pce 4-5 wt. Currently, the SP and the Diawa get all the use.  The Diawa and Fisher are spiggot types whereas the Sages use  the ferrule approach.  To be honest, I can’t tell a damned bit of difference when casting, however the ferrule design is reported to be longer lasting as the spiggot fit tends to wear.  That’s what they say, but I’ve seen some old spiggot rods that fit together just fine.  Frankly, ignore the joining method and buy the rod that suits you.  Winston and Hardy uses spiggots for their travel rods and they don’t produce junk for sure. Spend a bit extra if you can and take a look at the Sage LL series. Even though my SP has a greater useable fishing range, the LL has to be the sweetest to cast and fish.  The GL3s are good too.  Try the GL3 9′ 4 wt. as well.  None of what you have mentioned are bad, I.ve casted them all but I have to go back to the LLs.  Its personal preference on my part, but try one.  Try the 3 pce 586.  Sure an SP, GLX, PM10 or T&T Horizon may cast further, but when is the last time you ever casted a fly more than 50′ to catch a ‘bow.  Buy a used one if you have to. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? Thanks.

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Dear J., I do not personally own a travel rod, but I was recently in the market for a lightweight flyrod and the St. Croix came highly recommended to me.  I know of some flyfishing crazies around this area who own the St. Croix "Pack Rat" and just love them. Kevin J. Engel

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While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? Thanks.

Response:

While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value.

IMHO Sage delivers the best value. I have got a 5 wt 3 pc 9 ft Sage-SP and this rod is perfectly alright for nearly all purposes. If you like smaller streams – take this rod. If you prefer bigger streams – take this rod. It covers all kind of streams because of its soft presentation combined with a lot of power and backbone. Additionally, Sage has a perfect warranty: Once I broke my rod they repaired it free of charge within four weeks and inbetween they lent me the same rod to fish with. Good service. Nothing to complain about. 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods?

See above. Hope this helped. Good fishing and tight lines. Jan — Jan Geert Meents Georgenstrasse 120                              Fax: +89/278174-57 80798 Muenchen                                Phone: +89/278174-56

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? Thanks.

        IMHO the Loomis GL3, 9 ft., 5 wt., 4 pc. travel rod is the best value in those you mention. It is without peer as a casting machine – the reason you use a fly rod in the first and only place. It is extremely well built, has a life time warranty for defects – and in my experience – a very liberal interperation of what defect is. The Sage is a close second in choice – the other two are not worth considering along side the Loomis and Sage.         I am a custom rod builder and all of my rods are G. Loomis IMX, and mostly 4 pc. now. For the high price end you will not go wrong with a Loomis GL3 or the GL4 coming out to replace the IMX. Also, if you are looking at high end, check out the Thomas & Thomas Heritage series designed by Gary Borger. These are very nice casting tools.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I : have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey : those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The : questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod : for small to medium western rivers: : : 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which : manufacturers offer these designs? : : 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. : : 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis : GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad : experiences with these rods? : : 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? : : Thanks. : :       Hi Bruce,                  I am a Loomis manso my first choice would deffinatleybe

the Loomis GL3.  As for the high end rods I would reccomend the Loomis GLX.  The GLX is a much faster rod than the GL3.  I do not know too much about the Sage rods because I have never owned one nor have I casted one.  I hope this helps.      Fish or die,                 Adam Birkes

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Question:

: : or, a newbie is, in the words of Howell Raines in his epic "Fly fishing : : through the midlife crisis", an advocate of the "Redneck Way". : I might be wrong, though and I would like to hear opinions about the : book.  Does Raines know anything about fish?  

Rick- I have to confess that I did not like the book.  Actually struggled to make it to the end.  If I wanted to read a New York Times political editorial, I would have bought the newspaper.  I wasn’t expecting a book "about flyfishing", but I wasn’t looking for a political diatribe either. And it wasn’t just the political point of view; I thought he came across as a whiner. What finally got me the most, however, was the statement he makes in describing his one trip west to fish (actually, I suspect it was his only trip out of the Washington Beltway up to that point in time).  He says that the great rivers of Wyoming are the Gallatin, Madison and Yellowstone!  Then he says that the Snake is "glorious, but "becomes really great when it crosses into Idaho and becomes two rivers; the Idaho Snake and  the Henry’s Fork" (close paraphrase). Give me a break!  All these rivers (except the Snake and Henry’s Fork) are, of course, primarily Montana rivers.  Even though the Madison and Yellowstone originate in Yellowstone Park and the Gallatin may  have headwaters in Wyoming, no one ever says "Let’s go to Wyoming to fish the famous Gallatin and Madison, etc. "   Moreover, the Snake doesn’t go from Wyoming to Idaho to "become" anything.  I wrote to Raines and told him he needed a geography lesson.  He sent back a letter saying that he had gotten the information from a book that I have never heard of and have never been able to find in any flyshop or library.   BTW, Raines was in Montana fishing the Madison (that great Wyoming river) with his girlfriend a week or so ago.  I asked one of his guides whether he was a good flyfisherman and he said that is girlfriend is pretty good. Perhaps the name of his book should have been Flyfishing Through the Midlife Crisis With a New Girlfriend. If you look at the book as the story of a boy growing up and his relationship with his father, and if Raines had kept it at that without trying to make it a political statement, the book might have been worth reading (overlooking the geographical gaffs). That’s my opinion, but I have talked to others (and read views expressed on this newsgroup from folks) who liked the book.  That’s one of the great things about books, everyone reads them and sees something different. Lyman Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX

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It was obvious Raines had limited experience on the water and that he was cashing in on the post "A River Runs Through It" period.  It didn’t seem like I was going to get much from the book. I might be wrong, though and I would like to hear opinions about the book.  Does Raines know anything about fish?   —

Sure, Raines rode the wave on ARRTI, and about every guide, rod company, line company, magazine publisher, fly fishing "celebrity", and clothing manufacturer in the business.  Does he know anything about fish?  Well, methinks he does!  Maybe not as much as some people, but, the book is about a man learning to fly fish as he goes through his mid-life crisis. He doesn’t have to know alot.  He isn’t trying to teach any fly fishing tactics, or how to present a drag free drift.  For my money, it is a lot better than anything Gierach has done, and I have read all of his books. I think his perspective as fly fishing as an important hobby, rather than the way he makes his living is refreshing in a world of all too many professional fishermen. It is a good book, but it leans heavily on politics.  If you are a conservative, you might not like to read about a liberal reporters opinions on the Reagan-Bush years. But it also weaves fish stories into every facet of life, much as we do in this group Daren C. Valentine

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: : or, a newbie is, in the words of Howell Raines in his epic "Fly fishing : : through the midlife crisis", an advocate of the "Redneck Way". : I might be wrong, though and I would like to hear opinions about the : book.  Does Raines know anything about fish?   I read the book, and liked it…mostly because I was raised in the "Redneck Way".  I doubt that Raines knows much about fly fishing.  He was raised to catch and kill as many fish as possible, using big hooks, strong line, stiff bait casting rods, and things like worms and chicken livers.  So was I.  That’s the "Redneck Way". He took up fly fishing and learned that good company, beautiful water, and the quiet elegance of our sport is more important than catching fish.  These things help you be at peace with the world, rather than in competition with it, which is important when facing the reality of our individual mortality.  "Keeping the black dog (death) at bay" is how he phrased it. I doubt that he knew much about fly fishing…other than how it helped him face death.  But that’s something, isn’t it? — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Per the previous discussions, many of us still believe Cutts are for 1) Newbies who don’t know how to fish well 2) Guides, who can easily give their clients a 50 fish day,  or 3) those too lazy or disinterested to learn Entomology and like sz. 10 attractor flies. Cutts have their place, but generally, when other species are available, not with serious fly fisherman who like the challenge Cutts do not offer.

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: Per the previous discussions, many of us still believe Cutts are for 1) : Newbies who don’t know how to fish well 2) Guides, who can easily give : their clients a 50 fish day,  or 3) those too lazy or disinterested to : learn Entomology and like sz. 10 attractor flies. Cutts have their place, : but generally, when other species are available, not with serious fly : fisherman who like the challenge Cutts do not offer. Well, this is a provocative post.  Please explain to me how you avoid those "pesky" cutthroats.  Perhaps move to a less clean river where they have died off? I disagree with you.  A large fish is a large fish.  All large fish have survived more than a year or two and are frequently the brightest in that stretch of the river.  Admittedly, a bright trout is barely smart enough to host a popular television talk show, but it is a competitive world in the stream and the craftier fish eat better than the Rikki Lakes of the river. I fish often in a couple of rivers that have mixed cutt and bow populations.  I’ve never noticed that the bows could be found in the better locations.  In fact, it is usually the big cutts that are in the best locations and occasionally I find a bow.  My experience is that bows seem to do a lot more bottom hunting than surface activity.  I prefer surface activity. I would love to hear your reasons behind your opinions.  And I would be happy to host you on a river so you could show me some of the fine points of selective fishing and entomology.  I’ll tell you what.  I’ll buy you a beer for every bow you catch and you buy me a beer for every cutt you catch.  Deal? Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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Rick:  I don’t know if John is going to take you up or not, but sure sounds good to me.  However, at one beer per fish, the fishing better be slow or I won’t make it for long.  Be fun trying though. Seriously, on the cutthroat discussion.  Where cutts are native, they’re a mighty important fish to me.  I don’t know whether they’re the smartest fish in the world — I’ve had mixed experiences with them as I’ve had with every other species of trout.  But they are native to many waters and beautiful fish.  With over a half-century under my belt, I’m not exactly a newbie and certainly not a guide — at least a professional one.   Still feel like a newbie, though — at least on my better days.  And I sure don’t want to lose that feeling — ever. Dick Hubbard

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The Sea-Run Cutts that I have been catching will stand up to any rainbow of the same size.  I caught about a 14 incher last night that jump more than once to show us his size and made my reel scream like every fly-fisherman wants.  Hearing that reel go tells me that these Cutthroat where a blast.

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I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie and fish primarilly in wild cutt territory.  But… I caught my first real (ie non-trivial) cutt a few weeks ago: 18 inches and fat.  I knew it was a big fish from the moment it took the fly.  But it didn’t FIGHT.  It just PULLED a while, then turned over and laid there.  I was expected a second rush after he turned over, but it never came.  The fish drifted aimlessly into the net. I was disappointed. On the other hand, it was a beautiful fish, caught in a beautiful river, on a fly I tied myself, on a rod I built myself.  So it wasn’t a total loss. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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: I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie and fish : primarilly in wild cutt territory.  But… : On the other hand, it was a beautiful fish, caught in a beautiful river, : on a fly I tied myself, on a rod I built myself.  So it wasn’t a total : loss. This is a newbie?  He ties his own flies, builds his own rods, and catches 18+ inch fish.  What constitutes a newbie? : — : Laboratory for Applied Logic  Dept. of Computer Science : University of Idaho           www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster Charley

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I was disappointed. — Laboratory for Applied Logic        Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho         www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

I too am a little hesitant to wade into this discussion.  (The pun was intended.) First, James I can’t believe that you would complain about catching an 18" fish.  I wish I had your problems. Second, I lived in West Yellowstone for 4 years.  I used to visit the Park regularly and have fished a number of the rivers and lakes throughout.  I have fished at times where the Yellowstone Cutthroat could be caught on just about anything.  It’s as if the fish just wanted to eat and didn’t care what type of bug it was eating.  Then there have been even more times when the fish would not even look at a fly.  I’d empty my box trying to find that magic pattern.  So, to those of you who have the 40 fish days on Slough Creek, count your lucky stars and be thankful.  Because those days don’t come often enough. -Bill IBM, Boulder, CO

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | : I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie and fish | : primarilly in wild cutt territory.  But… | | : On the other hand, it was a beautiful fish, caught in a beautiful river, | : on a fly I tied myself, on a rod I built myself.  So it wasn’t a total | : loss. | | This is a newbie?  He ties his own flies, builds his own rods, and | catches 18+ inch fish.  What constitutes a newbie? | | Charley    I also consider myself to be a "Newbie", even though I tie my own flies, built my own rod, and have landed an 18" trout.  My flies are very nice, my rod is flawless, but my technique and knowledge are incomplete.  Many people are good craftsmen (women too), and get lucky with the trout on occasion, but just aren’t experts yet.   I suppose though, for the sake of general discussion, that "Newbies" should be defined as: Those who are beginning to learn how to flyfish, have not yet built or tied any equipment, and have never landed anything bigger than their foot.

"Newbies" are anybody who realizes that they still have something to learn about flyfishing! Tim

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Those who are beginning to learn how to flyfish, have not yet built or tied any equipment, and have never landed anything bigger than their foot.

I’m a newbie, having converted to FF in both sweet and salt water in the past year, but I *have* caught something bigger than my foot. (Striped bass are bigger than trout, what can I say?).

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Weighing back in…… I consider a newbie anyone who requires context before data. Put another way, if I can tell someone to use a PT nymph with a twist retrieve and let it go at that, this is not a newbie. When I get a puzzled expression and have to add, "A beadhead PT is a brown nymph with a gold beadhead and a twist retrieve is bringing it back with just a hand twist– a few inches at a time", that’s a newbie. When a newbie starts feeling comfortable with the terminology and contributes his/her own observations to the discussion, they have graduated to ??.  Something between expert or master and newbie.                       Why does it matter?  Well, it doesn’t.  Except, if I know that a person isn’t a newbie, I can dump a lot more information in a brief encounter streamside, because I don’t have to be care- full to get into enough detail.  Course, regional knowledge is the achilles heal of this argument.  I’ve met many anglers new to an area I’m familiar with who require detail on the geography even though they are approaching expert on the culture of fly fishing. God, I love a purely philosophical argument every now and then! Charley

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: | : I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie … : | This is a newbie?  He ties his own flies, builds his own rods, and : | catches 18+ inch fish.  What constitutes a newbie? :   I suppose though, for the sake of general discussion, that "Newbies" should : be defined as: Those who are beginning to learn how to flyfish, have not yet : built or tied any equipment, and have never landed anything bigger than their : foot. Fair question.  Here’s what I had in mind:  I’ve been fishing for less than two years, and have been on the stream for less than 30 days total (only four days on a GOOD stream).  Unfortunately, I’m kinda neurotic. So I jumped into the sport with both feet: tied leaders, tied flies, and built a rod.   At least I didn’t quit my job and leave my wife and kids to fish every day…though the thought has crossed my mind. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Another thought… A "newbie" is a nymphal fisherman, hiding under a rock fully aware that he or she is ugly as sin an likely to be eaten up if he or she strays too far into the current of modern fly fishing (a "PT"??? what the hell’s that???) Eventually, we emerge and shed our clumsy shucks—those bad habits we accumulated in our solitude.  It’s kinda painful, but we make a public display of our pretty new stuff right there on the surface (wanna see my rod?) for all to see. But we’re still a little wet (behind the ears), so we need a little time to dry off. Then we gracefully transform into something magnificent, rising in the light with beauty and grace (it takes my breath away to see Doug Swisher approach, cast to, and land a big rainbow on a video tape…with I could do that). We acheive union with the stream, the trout, and the insects for a brief time…teaching some others what we know if we’re fortunate.  Then, after what seems only a day, we die. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Another thought…gawd this is a rich thread… A newbie is someone who casts a big royal coachman or wooly worm into the water…anywhere…while watching the line and rod: "Concentrate! Wait for the backcast to straighten out!  Damn, need to cast a little farther!  Quick, re-cast that sucker!" A more eperienced person is more careful with fly and presentation: "Let’s see, a puddle cast with a PMD just behind that big rock should do the trick.  There it goes!" The expert: "What a lovely day.  I’ll catch THAT big fish over there, then THAT one.  This fly seems about right.  There."  All the while instictively stalking the fish from just the right place, eyes on the fish, with a plan for fishing the whole pool or run unconciously ready to execute. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Pondering the "NEWBIE" While "Newbies" can, and often do ask frustrating questions, use incorrect terminology, and make blunders that "experts" have long forgotten as being building blocks in their own education . . .  these "Newbies" have a zest, a fresh outlook, and a keen wonder about their endeavor that I have found is sometimes missing in the outlook of "so-called experts." I have a friend and mentor who is a retired doctor, now one of the best fly-tiers and guides in the surrounding five state region. Doc is one of those rare "experts" who gets more excited by my accomplishments than in his own personal fishing achievements. It is a delight to be with him on a stream, and see his excitement for me, as if he was the one who had just stalked that rising rainbow and landed him. Yes, I’m a "Newbie," and I believe that Doc gets a real kick out of looking at fly fishing thru my eyes . . . maybe he’s reliving some of those old "first time" accomplishments. I’m old enough now to know that being a "Newbie" is nothing to be ashamed of, in fact, it’s a treat to be constantly enjoying the newness of each first time successful endeavor. I haven’t felt this excited about any hobby or sport . . . well, I can’t remember how long its been. So, I for one relish this "Newbiness"! It’s exhilirating! And to have an "Expert" like Doc to share this "newness" with makes it twice as much fun. "Newbies Forever!" Bob Vorel

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  | : I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie and fish  | : primarilly in wild cutt territory.  But…  |  | : On the other hand, it was a beautiful fish, caught in a beautiful river,  | : on a fly I tied myself, on a rod I built myself.  So it wasn’t a total  | : loss.  |  | This is a newbie?  He ties his own flies, builds his own rods, and  | catches 18+ inch fish.  What constitutes a newbie?  |  | Charley     I also consider myself to be a "Newbie", even though I tie my own flies,  built my own rod, and have landed an 18" trout.  My flies are very nice, my  rod is flawless, but my technique and knowledge are incomplete.  Many people  are good craftsmen (women too), and get lucky with the trout on occasion, but  just aren’t experts yet.    I suppose though, for the sake of general discussion, that "Newbies" should  be defined as: Those who are beginning to learn how to flyfish, have not yet  built or tied any equipment, and have never landed anything bigger than their  foot.    Therefore, Mr.Foster and I should consider ourselves to have graduated from  Flyfishing school.  Now if we can just get a job…  Erik Sutton  Gresham, Oregon

A" newbie" is a person that flyfishes that thinks he has to use a 500$ graphite rod,Orvis everything, a 1,000$ vise to tye, and a Jeep.They also tend to think that knowledgable anglers and flyfishing shop staff and/or guides owe them their lifelong earned knowledge for free. A "beginning angler" is a person that takes the time to learn and trys to help their more experienced peers  any way he can to try to learn about this resource.He cares about the rivers and lakes.He cares about the fish and their habitat.This is a philosophy of a way of life for him.He respects his teachers even after he has perhaps exceeded their ability,if only because he wouldn’t have had they not taught them. I learned to tye under the tuteledge of a great commercial tyer/guide,I still consider myself his student- –after 20 years–and give him all the respect he deserves even though we don’t see eye to eye on a great many issues anymore.I still consider him a great spirit just for having gave me this great gift. We go 2,3 ,or 4 years without seeing one another even though we live miles apart but when we do its almost like close blood relatives caring for each other.I would do anything for that man if he needed to help. This is what it seems a great many "newbies"have forgotten or don’t understand.That this is a philosophy of life, not a meat chasing quest for the biggest fish or the most fish.Or I am better than you. I can no longer tye or fish due to injuries sustained in Alaska,and it occurs to me that a great many of you "flyfisherman" today can’t either.Oh sure, you can cast and you can be on the river.But your not fishing,your competing with your demons and your egos and other people just like you.  "That mans name"is Bob Sheirholtz.                           very truly, Davy

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A newbie as a person who still thinks that Flyfishing is about catching fish. or, a newbie is, in the words of Howell Raines in his epic "Fly fishing through the midlife crisis", an advocate of the "Redneck Way". Mike Ray

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: A newbie as a person who still thinks that Flyfishing is about catching : fish. I think you lost me here.  If fishing is not about catching fish…what the hell is it about?  Granted, it is great to be smack dab in the middle of a beautiful place…but fishing is much more fun when one catches fish.  Isn’t it? : or, a newbie is, in the words of Howell Raines in his epic "Fly fishing : through the midlife crisis", an advocate of the "Redneck Way". OK, now I got you.  You are under the influence of this fishing "master".  I admit I have not read his book, but for good reason.  I watched an hour of television when Charlie Rose, who can pull information from people as easily as Powerbait falls from a bass fishermans pocket, interviewed Raines and tried to talk fishing.  It was obvious Raines had limited experience on the water and that he was cashing in on the post "A River Runs Through It" period.  It didn’t seem like I was going to get much from the book. I might be wrong, though and I would like to hear opinions about the book.  Does Raines know anything about fish?   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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and have never landed anything bigger than their foot.< I think this is unfair…..  I hve been flyfishing for 30 years, and I seldom catch trout as large as my foot (which is only an 11-D, BTW).  This is because I live in PA, and fish wild trout waters where there are only one or two fish the size of my foot in the entire watershed…..  I have caught many pale stockies as big as both my feet, however…..:)

I must concur, and let me add that the best fishing I have ever done was in a stream 6 to 8 feet wide.  The most beautiful Cutthroats and no people.  Couldn’t have asked for a better day. And I would say I could be happy never catching fish bigger than my foot if all my days could be on pristine streams. -Eric

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"Newbies" are anybody who realizes that they still have something to learn about flyfishing! Tim

  I guess that covers just about everybody

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; Another thought…gawd this is a rich thread… ; ; A newbie is someone who casts a big royal coachman or wooly worm into ; the water…anywhere…while watching the line and rod: "Concentrate! ; Wait for the backcast to straighten out!  Damn, need to cast a little ; farther!  Quick, re-cast that sucker!" ; ; A more eperienced person is more careful with fly and presentation: ; "Let’s see, a puddle cast with a PMD just behind that big rock should do ; the trick.  There it goes!" ; ; The expert: "What a lovely day.  I’ll catch THAT big fish over there, ; then THAT one.  This fly seems about right.  There."  All the while ; instictively stalking the fish from just the right place, eyes on the ; fish, with a plan for fishing the whole pool or run unconciously ready ; to execute. The master:  "What a lovely day." — archer — Archer Sully Stop Casting Porosity

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: A "newbie" is a nymphal fisherman, hiding under a rock fully aware that : he or she is ugly as sin an likely to be eaten up if he or she strays : too far into the current of modern fly fishing (a "PT"??? what the : hell’s that???) [snip] Sooo… I guess you are saying you are like a San Juan Worm?   Nothing but an orange piece of fluff… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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"Newbies" are anybody who realizes that they still have something to learn about flyfishing! Tim

 "What I do know is that I don’t know…."    Every fly I tie, every cast I make, every fish I hook and every landing I perform is a new and different experience from the previous. Isn’t it experience (learning) that provides us with knowledge? If I ever reach the point of all knowing, my interest will fade. God take me when that happens. Have fun TEM

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Question:

Fly fishing for Bass on the Kanawha River near Charleston, West Virginia is a trip.. Something not for the typical Fisherman. Now the water is up and very muddy, but when it go back down, I’ll let everyone know how the Fishing is…. Misha

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very muddy, but when it go back down, I’ll let everyone know how the Fishing is….

Yes please!  I especially like that strech just before Rt. 60 goes up into the mountains.  (would that be Gauly Bridge? ) Bob

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Question:

I’m planning a trip through Europe which will include time spent in Norway and would like all the information I can get about fly-fishing as a foreigner. Are there any guide recommendations and what would the cost be? Where do I find out about license and regulations for waters? Are the waters private access or public? What types of tackle do most Norway rivers rate? Thanks for any help. Kim

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I’m planning a trip through Europe which will include time spent in Norway and would like all the information I can get about fly-fishing as a foreigner. Are there any guide recommendations and what would the cost be? Where do I find out about license and regulations for waters? Are the waters private access or public? What types of tackle do most Norway rivers rate? Thanks for any help. Kim

Flyfishing in Norway can be both expensive and cheap. The country has with no doubt one of the worlds best and richest variety of streams, rivers, lakes and Europes longest coastline, were you can fish for both salmon and sea trout in salt water, beside of other seagoing species. The best areas for Atlantic Salmon is on the West-Coast (Vestlandet), Mid-Norway (Troendelag) and the Northern part of Norway (Nord-Norge). Even in the central part of the nation it is possible to flyfish for salmon and brown trout, if you prefer that. No guides are required (as in US and Canada, the commercial boost is not loose yet here..) Take your own gear with you. Fishing-gear is rather expensive in local shops if you compare with US& Canada-prices. There are around 400 registered rivers with Atlantic Salmon. Before fishing: You have to pay tax to the authoroties: Go to any postoffice and pay FISKERAVGIFT, 180 nkr in 1995. Aprx: 30 $. Now you can fish for salmon and seatrout in saltwater for free! Fishing in rivers: Buy FISHINGCARD. Sold from campingsites, local Tourist-offices. Most rivers: 100-200 nkr pr. day. 16-32 USD. Most expensive: West-Coast: Worst case: 30000-40000 nkr a day. Some English Lords still prefer to cash out 200000-300000 nkr for a whole week. But then they have all the river for themselves. In some rivers there are regulations on where foreigners can fish. NO BAG LIMITS. NO CATCH AND RELEASE required. Some rivers have days where the fish get to rest from fishermen. Usually Sunday-Monday. Fly patterns: My special favorite: Green Highlander. All hair-flies that are meant for salmon will go. Flies that pretend to be shrimps can be very succesfull! Colourchoosing: Ligth weather, sunny: Light coloured flies. Darker weather: Darker flies. Night: Black flies. Warm weather, warm river: Small flies. Cold river, much water: Large flies. For those who prefer bait and spoons: No foreign worms allowed. Espc. ban on German worms. No shrimps allowed. Spoons: Buck Special, Toby and Moeresilda in 20-45 grams are prefered, together with other slim spoons. Choose silverspoon in sunny weather. Green or brown spoons in darker weather. If you need any additional information on rivers, lakes or other places to fish in any part of Norway, I can provide you with more information on prices, where to go and where to call. Good luck Regards Jan Gunnar Furuly Norwegian flyfisher Ski, Norway.

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  I’m planning a trip through Europe which will include time spent in   Norway and would like all the information I can get about fly-fishing as   a foreigner. Are there any guide recommendations and what would the cost be? Where do I find out about license and regulations for waters? Are the waters private access or public? What types of tackle do most Norway rivers rate? Thanks for any help. Kim

 Flyfishing in Norway can be both expensive and cheap.  The country has with no doubt one of the worlds best and richest  variety of streams, rivers, lakes and Europes longest coastline,  were you can fish for both salmon and sea trout in salt water, beside  of other seagoing species.  The best areas for Atlantic Salmon is on the West-Coast (Vestlandet),  Mid-Norway (Troendelag) and the Northern part of Norway (Nord-Norge).  Even in the central part of the nation it is possible to flyfish  for salmon and brown trout, if you prefer that.  No guides are required (as in US and Canada, the commercial boost  is not loose yet here..)  Take your own gear with you. Fishing-gear is rather expensive in  local shops if you compare with US& Canada-prices.  There are around 400 registered rivers with Atlantic Salmon.  Before fishing:  You have to pay tax to the authoroties: Go to any postoffice  and pay FISKERAVGIFT, 180 nkr in 1995. Aprx: 30 $.  Now you can fish for salmon and seatrout in saltwater for free!  Fishing in rivers:  Buy FISHINGCARD. Sold from campingsites, local Tourist-offices.  Most rivers: 100-200 nkr pr. day. 16-32 USD.  Most expensive: West-Coast: Worst case: 30000-40000 nkr a day.  Some English Lords still prefer to cash out 200000-300000 nkr  for a whole week. But then they have all the river for themselves.  In some rivers there are regulations on where foreigners can fish.  NO BAG LIMITS.  NO CATCH AND RELEASE required.  Some rivers have days where the fish get to rest from fishermen.  Usually Sunday-Monday.  Fly patterns: My special favorite: Green Highlander.  All hair-flies that are meant for salmon will go.  Flies that pretend to be shrimps can be very succesfull!  Colourchoosing: Ligth weather, sunny: Light coloured flies.  Darker weather: Darker flies.  Night: Black flies.  Warm weather, warm river: Small flies.  Cold river, much water: Large flies.  For those who prefer bait and spoons:  No foreign worms allowed. Espc. ban on German worms.  No shrimps allowed.  Spoons: Buck Special, Toby and Moeresilda in 20-45 grams are  prefered, together with other slim spoons.  Choose silverspoon in sunny weather. Green or brown spoons in  darker weather.  If you need any additional information on rivers, lakes or other  places to fish in any part of Norway, I can provide you with more  information on prices, where to go and where to call.  Good luck  Regards  Jan Gunnar Furuly  Norwegian flyfisher  Ski, Norway.

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