Question:

The majority of the people here on ROFF involved in the incredible amount of bickering are looking like morons, and yes I aught to know. ROFF is like a classroom full of highschool girls who talk and talk and talk but don’t seem to DO anything about it.  All of you who are tossing insults from behind your nice safe computer keyboard thinking you sound tough… well, you don’t, you sound like pansies, because most of you don’t have the courage to say those things face to face.  If you are really that insulted or irate, get on a fricken airplane and have it out.  Otherwise, please shut up.  PLEASE.

Response:

… Otherwise, please shut up.  PLEASE.

Please accept my heartfelt apologies, Mr. Salad, for any bickering in this newsgroup which may have impeded your ability to post a trip report, a tackle review or a query about fly fishing. Rest assured, your scathing commentary has cut us, all of us, to the quick, and we humbly await your further instructions on what is meet and proper. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

    Please accept my heartfelt apologies, Mr. Salad, for any bickering  in    this newsgroup which may have impeded your ability to post a trip report,    a tackle review or a query about fly fishing. ..apology accepted. Please accept my apology for believing that childish whining equals off topic posting.

Response:

Please accept my apology for believing that childish whining equals off topic posting.

No problemo, but please prefix the subject line with "OT:" the next time you feel inclined to post. /daytripper (hth

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The majority of the people here on ROFF involved in the incredible amount of bickering are looking like morons, and yes I aught to know.

AH-HA!  So YOU are the "King of the Morons"…I was wondering just who it was, and suspected he might just be hangin’ around ROFF…and just why weren’t you right in thick of it?  Pansy!  Pansy! ROFF is like a classroom full of highschool girls who talk and talk and talk but don’t seem to DO anything about it.  

Highschool girls? HIGHSCHOOL GIRLS?  HEY, LOOK BUDDY, I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW I HAVE JUST ONE QUESTION – er, where is wayno? All of you who are tossing insults from behind your nice safe computer keyboard thinking you sound tough… well, you don’t, you sound like pansies, because most of you don’t have the courage to say those things face to face.  

Oh, shoot, Mark, we can’t ALL be as tough and rugged as you’d like…heck, some of us are barely able to get our thin, pale, and sickly fingers to move across the keyboard, and now, you want actual physical violence…you, sir, are a meany!   Heck, why just last week, as I was beating "The Rock" into a bloody pulp for suggesting that I had, perhaps, forgotten my manners and not held my pinkie properly during elevensies, I thought to myself, "you know, I’m getting much too old for this.  It’d be so much easier to simply go and screw around with them wimps (hey, you say "pansy," I say "wimps," but let’s call the whole thing off…topic…or A CAGE MATCH TO DEATH!!!) on ROFF"…when I had to put him into "The Double Suplex Sleeping Clawraker" for not passing the biscuits fast enough, I decided: ATTACK!  ATTACK!! If you are really that insulted or irate, get on a fricken airplane and have it out.  Otherwise, please shut up.  PLEASE.

Well, shoot, bubba, post your addy, and see who (or what) might show up…I know ol’ Rock is spoiling for a real throw-down, and he ain’t up to foolin’ with me no more…’coursin, if you wanna to come on over, I’ll be happy to confuse you in person, all live and in technicolor… HTH, R

Response:

DAMN!  Busted!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No problemo, but please prefix the subject line with "OT:" the next time you feel inclined to post. /daytripper (hth

Response:

The majority of the people here on ROFF involved in the incredible amount of bickering are looking like morons, and yes I aught to know. ROFF is like a classroom full of highschool girls who talk and talk and talk but don’t seem to DO anything about it.  All of you who are tossing insults from behind your nice safe computer keyboard thinking you sound tough… well, you don’t, you sound like pansies, because most of you don’t have the courage to say those things face to face.  If you are really that insulted or irate, get on a fricken airplane and have it out.  Otherwise, please shut up.  PLEASE.

Bring it on particle boy!  Look up my address and book the flight…

Response:

Please accept my apology for believing that childish whining equals off topic posting.

Apology accepted……not that it’s needed; you may feel free to whine whenever the urge strikes. Wolfgang

Response:

The majority of the people here on ROFF involved in the incredible amount of bickering are looking like morons, and yes I aught to know. ROFF is like a classroom full of highschool girls who talk and talk and talk but don’t seem to DO anything about it.  All of you who are tossing insults from behind your nice safe computer keyboard thinking you sound tough… well, you don’t, you sound like pansies, because most of you don’t have the courage to say those things face to face.  If you are really that insulted or irate, get on a fricken airplane and have it out.  Otherwise, please shut up.  PLEASE.

Hmph!  Don’t suppose you’d be interested in taking a plane to Milwaukee and saying that?  If not, please shut up. Wolfgang apparently living in a world in which that really needs to be said from time to time……go figure.

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Milwaukee?  As if I’d spend five minutes in THAT town. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmph!  Don’t suppose you’d be interested in taking a plane to Milwaukee and saying that?  If not, please shut up.

Response:

Thanks for the invite.  I don’t recall calling you out or talking smack on the newsgroup, but correct me if I’m wrong. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bring it on particle boy!  Look up my address and book the flight…

Response:

particle salad writes: Milwaukee?  As if I’d spend five minutes in THAT town.

Candy ass!

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particle salad writes: Milwaukee?  As if I’d spend five minutes in THAT town. Candy ass!

I spent 5 minutes in Milwaukee, I think.  Depending, of course, if the section of I-90 on which I was travelling was actually inside the city limits.  Didn’t see anything to make me want to return; though, to be fair, I probably wasn’t looking at the nicer part of the city. Kevin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – particle salad writes: Milwaukee?  As if I’d spend five minutes in THAT town. Candy ass! I spent 5 minutes in Milwaukee, I think.  Depending, of course, if the section of I-90 on which I was travelling was actually inside the city limits.  Didn’t see anything to make me want to return; though, to be fair, I probably wasn’t looking at the nicer part of the city. Kevin

You must be one of those Italian drivers, not looking in the rearview mirror and all…. TC, R

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Thanks for the invite.  I don’t recall calling you out or talking smack on the newsgroup, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Well, your original post was talking smack, and I’m talking smack back.  It’s a talk-back smack attack, Jack.  It sounded like kind of a silly post considering that you were basically doing what you accused others of – "tossing insults from behind your nice safe computer keyboard." Therefore I didn’t take you seriously, and my reply wasn’t serious either.  On the other hand, if you were serious, then come on over and Jeff Miller and I will give you at least 5 seconds of ass whuppin’ before we keel over and regretfully submit to your will. JeffC (hey, where ya goin guys?  hey Jeff, come back, hey come on, stop kiddin’ around!)

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… then come on over and Jeff Miller and I will give you at least 5 seconds of ass whuppin’ before we keel over and regretfully submit to your will.

um…well…it’s kinda like this…i’ll do my 5 seconds worth, but i ain’t keelin over and submitting to nobody’s will cept maybe nicole kidman or gwyneth paltrow’s mom or… well, you know, that deliverance movie changed the way even some of us nobless oblige boys look at things…  sure you understand.  but, i’ll be right there to open the first beer in celebration…no matter who is right or wrong or the winner or left standin…but, i ain’t keelin and submittin. no sir. jeff

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … then come on over and Jeff Miller and I will give you at least 5 seconds of ass whuppin’ before we keel over and regretfully submit to your will. um…well…it’s kinda like this…i’ll do my 5 seconds worth, but i ain’t keelin over and submitting to nobody’s will cept maybe nicole kidman or gwyneth paltrow’s mom or… well, you know, that deliverance movie changed the way even some of us nobless oblige boys look at things…  sure you understand.  but, i’ll be right there to open the first beer in celebration…no matter who is right or wrong or the winner or left standin…but, i ain’t keelin and submittin. no sir. jeff

So, that’s one "keel and submit," and one "stand and deliver"…or rather, I guess, one "stand, and no "Deliverance"… TC, R …jus’ tryin’ to make sure my notes is accurate and all…

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Milwaukee?  As if I’d spend five minutes in THAT town.

Four will do. Wolfgang

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – particle salad writes: Milwaukee?  As if I’d spend five minutes in THAT town. Candy ass! I spent 5 minutes in Milwaukee, I think.  Depending, of course, if the section of I-90 on which I was travelling was actually inside the city limits.  Didn’t see anything to make me want to return; though, to be fair, I probably wasn’t looking at the nicer part of the city.

It’s a city.  Got some good stuff and some bad stuff.  If you stayed on 90 you DEFINITELY didn’t see the better parts of Milwaukee.      :) Wolfgang

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considering that you were basically doing what you accused others of – "tossing insults from behind your nice safe computer keyboard."

Well, OK, if you want to go that way… I guess I was speaking more about those making personal insults, calling people out.  I KNOW most of the people making those insults would NOT make them face to face.. that’s the thing that I find amusing, the talking tough part from a safe distance… On the other hand, if you were serious, then come on over and Jeff Miller and I will give you at least 5 seconds of ass whuppin’ before we keel over and regretfully submit to your will.

You’re wise to bring a friend… er, nevermind…

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Hey at least they have beer… er, nevermind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Milwaukee?  As if I’d spend five minutes in THAT town. Four will do. Wolfgang

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My biggest problem in this is that I wouldn’t take this crap from anyone face to face and would probably be even more direct in person. Hence, my reluctance to walk away. However, given the obvious fact that some will never let go I have no other way of dealing with these things than by non response. I’m not good at it, I’ll be the first to admit, and I’ve tried and failed before, but I’m game to give it another go. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – considering that you were basically doing what you accused others of – "tossing insults from behind your nice safe computer keyboard." Well, OK, if you want to go that way… I guess I was speaking more about those making personal insults, calling people out.  I KNOW most of the people making those insults would NOT make them face to face.. that’s the thing that I find amusing, the talking tough part from a safe distance… On the other hand, if you were serious, then come on over and Jeff Miller and I will give you at least 5 seconds of ass whuppin’ before we keel over and regretfully submit to your will. You’re wise to bring a friend… er, nevermind…

Response:

My biggest problem in this is that I wouldn’t take this crap from anyone face to face and would probably be even more direct in person. Hence, my reluctance to walk away. However, given the obvious fact that some will never let go I have no other way of dealing with these things than by non response. I’m not good at it, I’ll be the first to admit, and I’ve tried and failed before, but I’m game to give it another go. Clark

That’s the spirit Clark! Hey, picture this:  you work as an electrician and have been a fairly rugged sort most of your life, and one day on the job a masons-helper comes up to ya and says, "A fella told me you was queer, is it true?"  So you say, "Yeah, it’s true, I’m gay.  So what?"  And he says, "No, really, are you queer?"  And I say, (oops) and you say, "Yes it’s true!  You wanna go out or somethin’?" Well, he just walks off scrathin’ his head, and you walk off knowin’ every swingin’ dick on the job is soon to believe you are gay.  And I say, FUCK’EM IF THEY CAN’T TAKE A JOKE! Op  –strictly heterosexually celibate–

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I hear you… I wouldn’t take that kind of crap face to face either, but you have to realize that those who are out there making all the spineless threats are usually the kind of people who feel powerless in all other areas of their lives.. and when they have the opportunity to act without fear of physical retribution, they suddenly feel brave.  Go figure. I think you’re better off with the non response… or at least a stab at humor.  Don’t let the weasels get to you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My biggest problem in this is that I wouldn’t take this crap from anyone face to face and would probably be even more direct in person. Hence, my reluctance to walk away. However, given the obvious fact that some will never let go I have no other way of dealing with these things than by non response. I’m not good at it, I’ll be the first to admit, and I’ve tried and failed before, but I’m game to give it another go.

Response:

I hear you… I wouldn’t take that kind of crap face to face either, but you have to realize that those who are out there making all the spineless threats are usually the kind of people who feel powerless in all other areas of their lives.. and when they have the opportunity to act without fear of physical retribution, they suddenly feel brave.  Go figure. I think you’re better off with the non response… or at least a stab at humor.  Don’t let the weasels get to you.

Fuckin’ weasels!  They’re everywhere. Op  –whars ma varmit gun–

Response:

Question:

In his book, "Path of the Paddle," Bill Mason states that even though mfrs. will tell you that shallow-arch, shallow-vee or round-bottomed boats have better secondary stability than flat-bottomed canoes, he believes that flat-bottom boats perform just as well. Of course, he probably preferred traditional, canvas-wood canoes that were more likely flat-bottomed. I like paddling on lakes and rivers with my wife, but the majority of the time I spend in my canoe is fishing, so that takes top priority. By some standards, my canoe isn’t even really a canoe. It’s a barge. It’s a 19- foot, square-stern Grumman. It has a flat-bottom. I also have a sail rig for this canoe and have had it out in 2-3 foot chop, sailing, heeled over. It hasn’t come close to swamping. I routinely stand up in it while fishing. My 17 year-old son and his buddy both stand up in it at the same time. In fact, he told me that three of them were standing up in it the last time they went out.  Fools…  It is st Before you buy.

Response:

A canoe is a long narrow boat with fine entry and exit for paddling. A kayak is a low freeboard canoe usually decked over. You can get close to a canoe with narrow flat bottom double ended pirogue(?) or a skiff (with a transom). I designed and built a narrow skiff for light weight paddling and sailing. (There’s a writeup in file dogskiff.txt at website www.ncf.ca/~ag384.) A flat bottom boat with raked sides has reserve bouyancy. Mine is quite stable with 15 deg rake. I made a hoop tent to go over it and sleep in it. The idea is to be able to go where there are no campsites to get away from crowded canoe routes and noisy death-seeking kayakers. In his book, "Path of the Paddle," Bill Mason states that even though mfrs. will tell you that shallow-arch, shallow-vee or round-bottomed boats have better secondary stability than flat-bottomed canoes, he believes that flat-bottom boats perform just as well. Of course, he probably preferred traditional, canvas-wood canoes that were more likely flat-bottomed.

the original native bark canoes had round bottoms and were very unstable. when we were little we were not allowed to go in the canoe because it was considered too dangerous. we got to play around in a rowboat. I like paddling on lakes and rivers with my wife, but the majority of the time I spend in my canoe is fishing, so that takes top priority. By some standards, my canoe isn’t even really a canoe. It’s a barge. It’s a 19- foot, square-stern Grumman. It has a flat-bottom. I also have a sail rig for this canoe and have had it out in 2-3 foot chop, sailing, heeled over. It hasn’t come close to swamping. I routinely stand up in it while fishing. My 17 year-old son and his buddy both stand up in it at the same time. In fact, he told me that three of them were standing up in it the last time they went out.  Fools…  It is st

there are some good photos of a canoe under sail at the American Canoe Association website www.acanet.org – they hold canoe sailing regattas Before you buy.

– National Capital FreeNet      www.ncf.ca     Ottawa’s free community network

Response:

I must have been too long-winded;) My first message got cut short. I continue: The Grumman is stable as a rock. I suspect that some of this is due to it’s length. It is also almost 40-inches wide. However, it weighs a ton (120+ pounds). My wife doesn’t like paddling it too far because of the weight, and I ruptured a disk, so I’ve been thinking about adding another, much lighter canoe to the stable. I’ll have to get a trailer for the Grumman . I’ve paddled a friend’s 16-foot Old Town Penobscot that was way more tippy than I’d like for fishing. Every cast was an adventure for the other occupant. It was, however, a nice, fast canoe for day-touring. I test paddled a Wenonah Fisherman which is nice and light, and I thought would be quite stable. It was okay. But considering the width, (38-39 inches), I was not impressed with its stability. It’s only 14 feet long. A Mad River Revelation was much more stable than the Fisherman (which surprised me), and I have done quite a bit of fish Before you buy.

Response:

This is really weird. It must be because I’m using Deja News. I continue: fishing out of this boat, but it doesn’t compare to the Grumman for stability. It’s 40 pounds lighter, but still more weight than I’d like. My question is, has anyone tried an Old Town Camper or Pathfinder? They are flat-bottomed. Do they have really bad secondary stability? or was Bill Mason right? I know what the literature says. I would like someone who is speaking from experience. The Camper weighs less than 60 LBS, so would be a nice light-weight option, but I have not yet found one to try out. Does anyone have a better recommendation? I wouldn’t want anything heavier the Revelation, and I don’t even think I want to go that heavy. Plus… I want initial stability that is at least as good as the Revelation, and would prefer something approaching that of the Grumman. Any ideas?? — Have a good day! L Rochester Before you buy.

Response:

My question is, has anyone tried an Old Town Camper or Pathfinder? They are flat-bottomed. Do they have really bad secondary stability? or was Bill Mason right? I know what the literature says. I would like someone who is speaking from experience. Any ideas??

I’ve had my camper for at least 7 years(maybe more…the past is fuzzy). Before that I paddled a 17′ aluminum Grumman Eagle. I made my choice (chosing the Camper over the Penobscott) because of the age of my kids at that time. I wanted something stable so my toddlers could move around the boat. I knew that I wouldn’t be able to do a lot of heavy whitewater paddling until the kids got some age so I settled on the Camper. The only time I regret my decision is when I want to go fast on flatwater… It’s not exactly a speed demon. Stability ?  My favorite position is slouched against my seat back ( the plastic ones work great) with my long legs (I’m 6′5") hanging over the thwart or the sides. I’ll kneel (or at least sit up a little) for rapids, but that seems to be the only time lateral stability is an issue(it is still a canoe). As far as secondary stability, it will lean quite a bit, but keep your low brace handy. I’ve often wondered if there could possibly be an easier boat and if the trade-off for other features would be worth it( I still lust for a Penobscott 16). The kids are growing up, rolling their own boats, and not satisfied with class II water anymore. My Camper handles class III well enough, but there’s not really enough freeboard to stay dry in big waves. I think the aesthetics of the design make for a really cool,traditional look, but it also makes a big target when the wind is blowing. I’ve got to find a boat for bigger water, but I won’t be trading in for it. I wouldn’t be able to part with my Camper. It sounds like a model that could serve your purposes well.Good Luck Ted Bost

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My question is, has anyone tried an Old Town Camper or Pathfinder? They are flat-bottomed. Do they have really bad secondary stability? or was Bill Mason right? I know what the literature says. I would like someone who is speaking from experience. Any ideas?? I’ve had my camper for at least 7 years(maybe more…the past is fuzzy). Before that I paddled a 17′ aluminum Grumman Eagle. I made my choice (chosing the Camper over the Penobscott) because of the age of my kids at

well, here’s a vote for the Penobscot for a fishing canoe, but in fishing, I’m thinking flyfishing from a kneeling position….where the secondary stability gave me a wide *envelope* in which to rock around with. *(…and another one of Steve’s flyfishing LoG_CaBiN StOrIeS): I once had an extremely shallow-arched, 12footer of the unstable_to_the_max variety….talk about speed in getting to where you wanted to be, yes… but it was exciting…NOT in the way anyone wants…just throwing normal back/forward casts…with arm movement only.. I was dancing-on-the-edge of staying upright versus an instantaneous dip….whew..NOT FUN!:-)..BUT in the heat of summer..didn’t seem like all that a disasterous proposition. *(ahem, yes back to business!:-) The original poster might demo something in fiberglass, as a wide barge-style canoe in plastic will handle like the latest cruise_liner As always, the magic word….demo! tight_lines, steve *Hey while on the topic of excitement via a tippy canoe…any *war-stories*?

Response:

To each his own but I think that you could easily fish out of a Penobscot. Maybe not two people standing.  I have a 16 and there are a LOT more unstabel boats than a 16.  It has a lot of secondary stability,  I took some guide courses in a disco 158(similar to a camper) and when you got it leaned a little to far you were wet NOW.  The Penobscot is a lot faster and better handling boat than the 158,  

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War Stories!!! When I first got my Wildfire  was unable to reenter from deep water.  I fell out in a local tidal creek and ended up swimming with the boat a long way in a head wind.  I could barely stand when reaching the shore.

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Have you tried canoe stabilizers? . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My question is, has anyone tried an Old Town Camper or Pathfinder? They are flat-bottomed. Do they have really bad secondary stability? or was

Response:

There is a rigid hull foldable inflatable canoe which is highly stable, fast, very maneuverable that I have used for fishing in small , big rivers and lakes, standing up in the boat. You can find information about it at www.oviboat.com Roger  Sansoucy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A canoe is a long narrow boat with fine entry and exit for paddling. A kayak is a low freeboard canoe usually decked over. You can get close to a canoe with narrow flat bottom double ended pirogue(?) or a skiff (with a transom). I designed and built a narrow skiff for light weight paddling and sailing. (There’s a writeup in file dogskiff.txt at website www.ncf.ca/~ag384.) A flat bottom boat with raked sides has reserve bouyancy. Mine is quite stable with 15 deg rake. I made a hoop tent to go over it and sleep in it. The idea is to be able to go where there are no campsites to get away from crowded canoe routes and noisy death-seeking kayakers. In his book, "Path of the Paddle," Bill Mason states that even though mfrs. will tell you that shallow-arch, shallow-vee or round-bottomed boats have better secondary stability than flat-bottomed canoes, he believes that flat-bottom boats perform just as well. Of course, he probably preferred traditional, canvas-wood canoes that were more likely flat-bottomed. the original native bark canoes had round bottoms and were very unstable. when we were little we were not allowed to go in the canoe because it was considered too dangerous. we got to play around in a rowboat. I like paddling on lakes and rivers with my wife, but the majority of the time I spend in my canoe is fishing, so that takes top priority. By some standards, my canoe isn’t even really a canoe. It’s a barge. It’s a 19- foot, square-stern Grumman. It has a flat-bottom. I also have a sail rig for this canoe and have had it out in 2-3 foot chop, sailing, heeled over. It hasn’t come close to swamping. I routinely stand up in it while fishing. My 17 year-old son and his buddy both stand up in it at the same time. In fact, he told me that three of them were standing up in it the last time they went out.  Fools…  It is st there are some good photos of a canoe under sail at the American Canoe Association website www.acanet.org – they hold canoe sailing regattas Before you buy. — National Capital FreeNet      www.ncf.ca     Ottawa’s free community network

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Question:

Riverrat…  ever seen an anglerfish?  i figger if the fish use attractants, i oughtta too.  it’s the only thing me and the ol anglerfish got goin for us.  but, i do like stimulators nearbout as much <G jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and whatabout the area, isn’t it a restricted stream where you can’t use attracters? <vbg RiverRat

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If it’s the same Mrs. Hathaway that I remember, she ran for Congress in the 80’s in south central PA.  Died a few years later.

That’s the one (Nancy Kulp). — Charlie…

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<snipped In the old days long before I was around, they used deer fat to grease leaders.   There is an article on the web talking about using Albolene for flys and deer fat for leaders: http://www.fieldandstream.com/looking_back/19980101.html bc.

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listen fellas….honest, i don’t know who hacked into my system and wrote that crazy stuff.  some drunk sob, i’m sure. …but i did find a fly floating (still at 8:53 am) in a bowl of water and some streaks of bacon grease on my keyboard….   jeff   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …y’all snicker, but 5:27 pm and the damn fly is still floating…i’m on the lookout for bears though!  …         Come and listen to a story bout a man named jeffro         barely kept his sanity while thinkin to and fro;         then one day, while cookin some breakfast food,         he found the bacon grease, when to the fly applied,         yielded results that raised a grin far and wide.         Crude, but mighty good… better’n Miss Hathaway nude.         hawg squeezins, chitlin fixins…         fly’s still a-floatin, Ms. Hathaway longing… satisfied… jeffro  (ya can call me mr.J – ain’t got no meter, just a puzzled peter) BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie…

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it’s tough bein on the leadin edge of new adventures.  my rag tag outfitter company, Ursa Urticants R Us, Inc., is always looking for fresh meat, er…talent. you appear to meet all of our criteria.  an application is in the mail. jeff PS – Great story…any photos available?   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Grizzly Fishing 101 . Having fished for grizzlies,  I would like to advise that a bacon greased dry presentation simply does not cut it when attempting to "match the hatch".  From personal experience, one is advised to use a much larger stimulator or attractor pattern. About 15lb. larger to be exact. Case Study: On our yearly trip to the Karluk we are routinely "asked" to share prime water with the local grizzly or three.  Last year a sow and her two cubs could be expected to make a daily circuit up or down the middle of the river easily taking coho, steelhead, sockeye and dolly from our favorite runs. As mom and the kids could usually be seen coming from some distance, our strategy was to simply begin fishing our way back to camp. Cast, walk during the swing, retrieve quickly and cast again making steady progress toward camp. One eye on the happy family, one eye on your line as it makes the swing. Quickly now. On one occasion, I was first to camp so hurried to my tent to retrieve a camera to record what had become a daily ritual. Several of my compatriots were still fishing but were making increasingly rapid progress to camp as the distance between the two groups of fishers was decreasing . At this point, something few fishermen can imagine occurred. When is the last time you made a cast where you DIDN’T want to catch a fish ?  Worse , having made the unimaginable cast, you hook a bright 15lb.coho, who, in her suicidal wisdom heads straight for big mama. Apparently a #4 Egg Sucking Leach was not going to be a "grizzly" enough finish for this lady. Photo 1: Both fishermen look in surprise as the coho decides to go airborne 3 feet in front of larger fisher. Confused look on both faces. One of opportunity, one of desperation. Photo 2: Sensing easy fodder, mama heads for coho while puny male human is captured with  rod horizontal, pulling in desperation trying to break off one of his best fish of the day. Wakes are apparent in the water as each make their way to their individual destinations. A touch of the McCallan is shared to honor the first grizzly to the "fly". MS level courses in hooking and landing are being developed. Ph.D. in C&R is unlikely. Tight lines all, — Jeff www.teleport.com/~salmo/jp.htm bears – Ms. Hathaway – bears – Ms. Hathaway…hmmmm…. ok…i’ll redirect my efforts here… well, you guys are always looking for a new adventure…how about – flyfishing for grizzlies…yeah, that’s it.  it’ll be like swimming with the white sharks in australia.  lacourse, you fry the bacon and i’ll weld us up some steel cages to "fish" from…

Response:

and whatabout the area, isn’t it a restricted stream where you can’t use attracters? <vbg RiverRat

Response:

Grizzly Fishing 101 . Having fished for grizzlies,  I would like to advise that a bacon greased dry presentation simply does not cut it when attempting to "match the hatch".  From personal experience, one is advised to use a much larger stimulator or attractor pattern. About 15lb. larger to be exact. Case Study: On our yearly trip to the Karluk we are routinely "asked" to share prime water with the local grizzly or three.  Last year a sow and her two cubs could be expected to make a daily circuit up or down the middle of the river easily taking coho, steelhead, sockeye and dolly from our favorite runs. As mom and the kids could usually be seen coming from some distance, our strategy was to simply begin fishing our way back to camp. Cast, walk during the swing, retrieve quickly and cast again making steady progress toward camp. One eye on the happy family, one eye on your line as it makes the swing. Quickly now. On one occasion, I was first to camp so hurried to my tent to retrieve a camera to record what had become a daily ritual. Several of my compatriots were still fishing but were making increasingly rapid progress to camp as the distance between the two groups of fishers was decreasing . At this point, something few fishermen can imagine occurred. When is the last time you made a cast where you DIDN’T want to catch a fish ?  Worse , having made the unimaginable cast, you hook a bright 15lb.coho, who, in her suicidal wisdom heads straight for big mama. Apparently a #4 Egg Sucking Leach was not going to be a "grizzly" enough finish for this lady. Photo 1: Both fishermen look in surprise as the coho decides to go airborne 3 feet in front of larger fisher. Confused look on both faces. One of opportunity, one of desperation. Photo 2: Sensing easy fodder, mama heads for coho while puny male human is captured with  rod horizontal, pulling in desperation trying to break off one of his best fish of the day. Wakes are apparent in the water as each make their way to their individual destinations. A touch of the McCallan is shared to honor the first grizzly to the "fly". MS level courses in hooking and landing are being developed. Ph.D. in C&R is unlikely. Tight lines all, — Jeff www.teleport.com/~salmo/jp.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bears – Ms. Hathaway – bears – Ms. Hathaway…hmmmm…. ok…i’ll redirect my efforts here… well, you guys are always looking for a new adventure…how about – flyfishing for grizzlies…yeah, that’s it.  it’ll be like swimming with the white sharks in australia.  lacourse, you fry the bacon and i’ll weld us up some steel cages to "fish" from…

Response:

BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know.

She was Mr. Drysdale’s sado-masochistic lover/secretary who was always trying to get Jethro to show her his (fly) rod.   Or something like that. Shoot your television, Bob Scott

Response:

Ya, save her for Louie.  She’s already past changing. Her and LaPlac would make a fine looking couple at the places IJ sends him to<g. — Charlie…

Be great fun watching them decide who would lead.  :) Peter

Response:

…y’all snicker, but 5:27 pm and the damn fly is still floating…i’m on the lookout for bears though!  …  

<Interesting lyric snipped Damn Jeff! Don’t know what you’re smoking down there, but winter’s coming and we yankees could sure use some. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson  "The Pilgrim/Chapter33"

Response:

floating…i’m on the lookout for bears though!  …      Come and listen to a story bout a man named jeffro    barely kept his sanity while thinkin to and fro;

Well Peter it sounds like he made it to the likker cabinet. Big Dale

Response:

BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie… Ahhh.  I remember – but can she cook?  Seems to me she was only good at wearing bad tweed suits and lusting.

If it’s the same Mrs. Hathaway that I remember, she ran for Congress in the 80’s in south central PA.  Died a few years later. Mark faulkner

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie… Ahhh.  I remember – but can she cook?  Seems to me she was only good at wearing bad tweed suits and lusting. If it’s the same Mrs. Hathaway that I remember, she ran for Congress in the 80’s in south central PA.  Died a few years later. Mark faulkner

        aw, hell no, markey!  they’re talking about the "jane hathaway" from "beverly hillbillies", *not* the "ms. hathaway" you taught to do the "dirty macarena"  in the holiday inn just south of carlisle…         wayno, just keepin the record straight – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

…while cooking breakfast for rachel this morning, i also steamed some of the hackles on several of my well-used and misshapen flies.  the parallel universe i was drifting through at the time caused me to think about bacon fat grease as a floatant.  once cool, it becomes a waxy substance like gink, aquel, etc.  It could be easily strained and poured into an applicator before it hardens up, and with a squeeze it will ooze out of a gink bottle in its cool state.  It’s hard as hell to clean out of the pan with soap and water, so it adheres pretty good…whaddayathink, would a dab or two work as a floatant on a dry fly?  If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh? jeff (always thunking…)

  No disrespect jeff, but what morning herb produced this Parallel Universe? The stuff would turn to rock as soon as it hit the water. More than just a few bears may want to have a parallel experence with you  as well Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

..whaddayathink, would a dab or two work as a floatant on a dry fly?  If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh?

I think Jethro tried that once on the Beverly Hillbillies, but it just got Miss Hathaway excited if I recall correctly<g. — Charlie…

Response:

bears – Ms. Hathaway – bears – Ms. Hathaway…hmmmm…. ok…i’ll redirect my efforts here… well, you guys are always looking for a new adventure…how about – flyfishing for grizzlies…yeah, that’s it.  it’ll be like swimming with the white sharks in australia.  lacourse, you fry the bacon and i’ll weld us up some steel cages to "fish" from… ok, carrying this bit of foolishness to it’s illogical extreme, i’ve now tested the bacon grease thing in 64 degree water…it seems to float the fly, sort of…oops, it’s goin under…no, wait, it’s in the meniscus of the glass bowl, exuding a slick…ok, time to change parallels here…do ya think it might be xink-like?  you know, catch those early mornin breakfast trout?  … for those more into the Ms. Hathaway thing, i’m sure the bacon gease could serve the same blissful purpose as albolene in coating those… um, i’ll let you know how that one turns out….oh, rachel, dear… jeff (dropped on his head as a child -)   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …while cooking breakfast for rachel this morning, i also steamed some of the hackles on several of my well-used and misshapen flies.  the parallel universe i was drifting through at the time caused me to think about bacon fat grease as a floatant.  once cool, it becomes a waxy substance like gink, aquel, etc.  It could be easily strained and poured into an applicator before it hardens up, and with a squeeze it will ooze out of a gink bottle in its cool state.  It’s hard as hell to clean out of the pan with soap and water, so it adheres pretty good…whaddayathink, would a dab or two work as a floatant on a dry fly?  If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh? jeff (always thunking…)   No disrespect jeff, but what morning herb produced this Parallel Universe? The stuff would turn to rock as soon as it hit the water. More than just a few bears may want to have a parallel experence with you  as well Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

[a bunch of floating blithering and dithering snipped] jeff (dropped on his head as a child -)  

Jeffy, follow this carefully.  Go to the likker cabinet.  Pick out the strongest thing you got.  Drink it all.  Lie down until you feel better.  Then go to the nearest Orvis store and buy the floatant gunk. Leave the bears to Tripper.  He’s an expert when it comes to the mating rituals of oversized and dangerous wildlife.  As for Ms. Hathaway, leave her for Louie.  I hear he’s not too fussy about such things.  I’ll take the bacon and eggs.  (eggs sunnyside up and bacon well done but not crispy, don’t forget the toast and coffee)  And keep your flies outa my bacon. Peter (who knows his priorities)

Response:

BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. Peter

Response:

BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know.

She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie…

Response:

BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie…

Ahhh.  I remember – but can she cook?  Seems to me she was only good at wearing bad tweed suits and lusting. Ya, save her for Louie.  She’s already past changing. Peter Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

Response:

…y’all snicker, but 5:27 pm and the damn fly is still floating…i’m on the lookout for bears though!  …           Come and listen to a story bout a man named jeffro         barely kept his sanity while thinkin to and fro;           then one day, while cookin some breakfast food,         he found the bacon grease, when to the fly applied,         yielded results that raised a grin far and wide.         Crude, but mighty good… better’n Miss Hathaway nude.         hawg squeezins, chitlin fixins…         fly’s still a-floatin, Ms. Hathaway longing… satisfied… jeffro  (ya can call me mr.J – ain’t got no meter, just a puzzled peter) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie…

Response:

   fly’s still a-floatin, Ms. Hathaway longing… satisfied… jeffro  (ya can call me mr.J – ain’t got no meter, just a puzzled peter)

If you’ve been a messin’ with Ms. Hathaway, no wonder your peter’s puzzled.  "Boss?  Why are you abusin’ me so?" Peter

Response:

Ya, save her for Louie.  She’s already past changing.

Her and LaPlac would make a fine looking couple at the places IJ sends him to<g. — Charlie…

Response:

…while cooking breakfast for rachel this morning, i also steamed some of the hackles on several of my well-used and misshapen flies.  the parallel universe i was drifting through at the time caused me to think about bacon fat grease as a floatant.  once cool, it becomes a waxy substance like gink, aquel, etc.  It could be easily strained and poured into an applicator before it hardens up, and with a squeeze it will ooze out of a gink bottle in its cool state.  It’s hard as hell to clean out of the pan with soap and water, so it adheres pretty good…whaddayathink, would a dab or two work as a floatant on a dry fly?  If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh? jeff (always thunking…)

Response:

Jeff I don’t know about the flies, but the bears will love it. Ernie

<snip If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May

besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -jeff (always thunking…)

Response:

Question:

I’m fairly new to fly fishing. While I was taking a course in fly fishing the guide tied on two flies at once.  I’m trying to remember his technique. It seems that he tied line on the hook on one fly and added another on the end. How do you tie on more than one fly? Is this even a good idea? Thanks Greg

Response:

Hi Gregory, That is known as tying on a ‘dropper’ fly.  I tie it on above the barb of the first fly, using the clinch knot, about 18" long.  There are other methods of tying on a dropper on the tippet above the terminal fly, but your instructor wanted to keep it simple.  And yes, it is a good idea to use a dropper at times.  Many times when fish won’t hit on top, they’ll go for the dropper.  I fish for bluegill with this method when they get a little sulky in the summer,  and again in the fall when topwater fishing slows down.  Some might call this ‘bobber fishin’, but don’t let that influence you. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET.

|I’m fairly new to fly fishing. While I was taking a course in fly fishing |the guide tied on two flies at once.  I’m trying to remember his technique. |It seems that he tied line on the hook on one fly and added another on the |end. How do you tie on more than one fly? Is this even a good idea? Thanks |Greg

Response:

This is a common technique when fishing wet flies. A fly is tied to the end of the leader as usual and another is tied to what is called a dropper. This is usually made when tying the leader by extending one end of the blood knot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m fairly new to fly fishing. While I was taking a course in fly fishing the guide tied on two flies at once.  I’m trying to remember his technique. It seems that he tied line on the hook on one fly and added another on the end. How do you tie on more than one fly? Is this even a good idea? Thanks Greg

Response:

(good dropper advice snipped ) Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET.

Frank, I know you are a smallie fan.  A #4 or #6 hair bug for the surface and a nymph or small streamer as a dropper tied in the manner you described makes a particularly deadly combination for smallmouth.  The fish may take either fly.  This also works on trout on larger waters and is particularly effective in faster water.  In the case of trout use a slightly smaler top bug and a size 14 or 16 nymph. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

You can add an additional fly by simply tying a length of tippet to the eye of the first fly. This is how I was taught on the San Juan. The first fly can be dry attractor ( serves as strike indicator) or other while the lower fly a nymph. Two nymphs regular technique on San Juan, at least for the guide I had. One warning, I am not sure two flies are legal on all waters. You should check before using this technique as ignorance of the rules will not necessarily get you off the hook so to speak. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

Response:

Question:

I am thinking of a weeks fishing in the Fernie area some time between July 15 and August 15.  In terms of dry fly fishing, what is the best time to go? What bugs?  Will snow pack be an issue in terms of timing? JK

Response:

From my limited experience (one trip), the  later in your time period, the better for dry fly fishing. Plat

Response:

your timing looks good for a steady diet of dryfly action. patterns to bring:

gr drakes #12,14. stimulators orange, yellow large. rubber leg stones. hoppers later in Aug. if you require guide service click to www.bcangling.com best rates garaunteed. if you come in July, there are some trophy Rainbow lakes not too far away and the sedge hatch may still be happening. tls, pk.

Response:

Question:

[a lot of insufferably smug crap snipped]                                 Chris Simmons

Next time you get the urge to pontificate on the Usenet, head for the toilet instead. Peter Charles

Response:

If you colonials didnt have your heads in the sand half the time, and up somebody elses ass the other half,  you would know that lavender was the colour the season before last. The absolutely cool fly fisher in the coming season will be wearing pale lemon breathables, under orange wading boots, complemented with pink spats ( gravel guards for the uninitiated ! ) with bright yellow suspenders bearing the logo " If you dont C&R you are a wimp". The whole tastefully topped off with a "shortie" wading jacket in aubergine and beige  "flecktarn" with matching hat and chin strap. We are now open for flames ! Tight lines ! ( and whatever else seems appropriate under the circumstances ! ). Mike Connor

Response:

And  please  lets  not forget  How effective  gun control was in Northern Ireland. Jeesh. I contributed to this off topic thread?  lets stay with the purpose of this  NG please. There is a lot of  expertise and love of  fly fishing here. lets not dilute it with Politically Correct advodacy crap Davd

Response:

[deleted] you dye your own doncha?

..get a big assed food processor a 6 foot butterfly net and round trip airline tickets to gay ski week in Aspen…just make sure to release all the fish when you hit The Pan. Your pal, — TimW

Response:

Yeah..shooting fish!  He who owns a gun is a citizen?  Was this something I missed in the new Imigration Act? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

Response:

He means "He who owns a gun is a driving license holder" (if even that). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah..shooting fish!  He who owns a gun is a citizen?  Was this something I missed in the new Imigration Act? He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

Response:

He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

A gun is like a parachute, when you need one-YOU NEED ONE                                                        John Popp

Response:

He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke A gun is like a parachute, when you need one-YOU NEED ONE                                                       John Popp

People who own guns are more likely to get shot than those who dont . Mike Connor

Response:

Chris, you talk like someone who still view Americans as strange type with plaid pants, 3 cameras round their necks and all talking loudly but not saying anything. You clearly have never been to the US. I am a British ex-pat and I tell you they are *exactly* like Brits, insofar as Brits are exactly like everyone else in the world. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one. In fact in many ways, living here is so much better. I don’t need to lock my door at night, I leave my car unlocked with the windows down when I go fishing on a main road and the worst that has ever happened is that I had a wet set when I returned. British gun laws and British ‘freedom with responsibility’ didn’t stop the Northern Irish from slaughtering 3000 odd people. Can’t remember the last time Americans pulled two people from a car, stripped them naked whilst women onlookers jeered and eventually put two bullets their heads. Doesn’t jump out at me. The now-famous mass killings here in the US are no different from the Hungerford slaughter in the late 80s, or that recent one in Scotland. These examples come out without having to think. You should do some national self reflection before you post. Really. As far as this newsgroup goes, don’t read the ‘50%’ of posts that don’t interest you. Notice that only a small percentage of the people in the group start and nurture these threads. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out who they are. Start the odd thread now and then, if you are so inclined. Good luck and enjoy the news group. It is one of the best forums on the net, IMHO. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                             Chris Simmons

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] would someone in colorado tell me everything they have learned about where to fish and how to fish?  i am planning a week-long trip to denver, and need something to spend money on.  for instance, are neoprene waders worn by the cool guys?  if so, what brand should i get? Sure… Wear lavender so you don’t clash with the wallpaper when you get back to the hotel. Your pal, TimW

Where the hell do you order them? Should be in the orvis cat…no mention of em. not in cabella’s either. Felt sure I’d find a pair for sale on EH’s page, but no luck there. gotta be cool, doncha know. questions….. timbo, you dye your own doncha? do you use a commercial non-bleeding dye? how long do you soak/bathe em? any special curing tricks you care to share? best…. –Wataugan Walt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up

 Chris, These are the very reasons that I stay home and go on-line. Love from the Colonies, Ron

Response:

[deleted] would someone in colorado tell me everything they have learned about where to fish and how to fish?  i am planning a week-long trip to denver, and need something to spend money on.  for instance, are neoprene waders worn by the cool guys?  if so, what brand should i get?

Sure… Wear lavender so you don’t clash with the wallpaper when you get back to the hotel. Your pal, TimW

Response:

As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief,

        (lots of failure to communicate snipped) So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                               Chris Simmons

        oh, well, i will interrupt my partying on to supply a post that might please you, chris old fellow:         thomas & thomas is better than sage.         no, sage is better.         isn’t.         is. or, perhaps this one:         would someone in colorado tell me everything they have learned about where to fish and how to fish?  i am planning a week-long trip to denver, and need something to spend money on.  for instance, are neoprene waders worn by the cool guys?  if so, what brand should i get? or this:         as you all know, the "humpbacked scarlet zizzwheel" is one of the greatest late season carp flies of all time.  should i make my final dubbing with rat fur stained with the urine of immature fox?         well, hope that satisfies your need for the kind of posts we would get if "off topic" material were banned on roff.  sure has been enough for me, for a while. a. wayne harrison

Response:

(snipped) My favorite is the "we don’t want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, only criminals". – Gee, how are you going to do that? – By making laws.

(fun and telling stuff snipped) Later,     – Ken P.S.  It’s been illegal for criminals to own guns for a long time now, hasn’t helped yet.

        you go, kj.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                      Best regards from over the pond                              Chris Simmons

A slight correction, assault rifles are not legal here. What you hear about are semi autos that are cosmetically simular judged by gun control advocates as assault weapons (a non entity). You may also wish to check out the crimes here as in England seems the English crime statistics are higher. Sorry for the off topic post but the corrections had to be made.                                                          John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                             Chris Simmons Chris, I take it you’re from our motherland. We all have our problems. As far as off-topic, ‘thar really ain’t no such thing. We dialogue here as we would on a stream (actually, a little more civily on the stream). Our bond being, this is our cyber stream and it’s full of flies (bait) and risers. So wade on in, the waters cold. aside from all that, we can’t fish all the time….god knows I’ve tried… –Wataugan Walt

Steelhead for you today.  The biggest did damage to my Famous Grouse drinking arm.  Just goes to show what I’ll do for a friend. Ow!  Easy  honey.  Just rub the shoulder a little longer.  ah?  could you hand me that glass right there? yes, thank youuuuuuuuuuuu – sip! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (this is a dirty, thankless, filthy sport but someone’s got to do it) —

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As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                      Best regards from over the pond                                Chris Simmons

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Simmons: <<Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! Ah, but take heart, my friend.  Doncha know that there are now more than 2000 gun laws and the liberals want more.  They believe we can legistlate morals.  More guns?  Hell, give ‘em more laws and more laws.  That’ll teach ‘em! Dave LaCourse

My favorite is the "we don’t want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, only criminals". – Gee, how are you going to do that? – By making laws. – Silly question time, but what makes a person a criminal? – They break the law. [Stunned Silence] – So you’re gonna create laws to keep people who break laws from having guns? [More Stunned Silence] – [DUH] Ya gotta love short-sighted people. Later,      - Ken P.S.  It’s been illegal for criminals to own guns for a long time now, hasn’t helped yet.

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<<Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. You forgot one thing.  Freedom from English rule came from citizens having access to fire arms.

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Simmons: <<Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! Ah, but take heart, my friend.  Doncha know that there are now more than 2000 gun laws and the liberals want more.  They believe we can legistlate morals.  More guns?  Hell, give ‘em more laws and more laws.  That’ll teach ‘em! Dave LaCourse

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Flyfish4fun: <<You forgot one thing.  Freedom from English rule came from citizens having access to fire arms. LOL.   Wish I had said that! Dave LaCourse

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                               Chris Simmons

Chris, I take it you’re from our motherland. We all have our problems. As far as off-topic, ‘thar really ain’t no such thing. We dialogue here as we would on a stream (actually, a little more civily on the stream). Our bond being, this is our cyber stream and it’s full of flies (bait) and risers. So wade on in, the waters cold. aside from all that, we can’t fish all the time….god knows I’ve tried… –Wataugan Walt

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                               Chris Simmons

  Harry

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Walt,     I don’t think this kid fly-fishes.  He looks like a wire line troller. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – aside from all that, we can’t fish all the time….god knows I’ve tried… –Wataugan Walt

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Question:

Hello Fly fishing men and women !         I’m going to NS next summer, in the Cape Breton area, for camping and fishing. Please tell me of good rivers for fly fishing. Robert

As a frequent visitor to Cape Breton I can recommend the famous Margaree for salmon, but the Cheticamp and Middle Rivers are good too.  The Middle is primarily a Fall run salmon river though in the summer you can find brookies and Cape Breton’s unique strain of sea-run (Steelhead) rainbows that run the Middle River.  Though rainbows usually run in the spring.  Almost any inland pond will have good brookie fishing and most of the coastal streams get a run of sea-run brookies in summer.  Summer, be prepared for blackflies!  They can be brutal at times.  If you can put off your trip to the fall you’ll find less bugs and better fishing. Most of the salmon rivers on the island fish better in the fall, though the Cheticamp is known as a good summer river, early July best, of course depending on water levels and temps.  For camping, you can’t go wrong with a campsite at the Cape Breton Highlands National Park in Cheticamp.  They have campsites right near some of the better salmon pools on the Cheticamp River.  For real fine lodging and good meals I heartily recommend the Normaway Inn located in Margaree.  Remember to take a ride around the Cabot Trail, Cape Breton Island has some of the most breathtaking scenery to be found in Eastern North America.  Have a good trip, I love it there. Don D.

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Hi, Give us a shout back via e-mail or check out our web-page at: http://www.tightline.ns.ca We have lots of info there ! Bill Tight Lines Guide Service http://www.tightlines.ns.ca – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Fly fishing men and women !         I’m going to NS next summer, in the Cape Breton area, for camping and fishing. Please tell me of good rivers for fly fishing. Robert

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Hello Fly fishing men and women !         I’m going to NS next summer, in the Cape Breton area, for camping and fishing. Please tell me of good rivers for fly fishing. Robert

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Robert asks: Hello Fly fishing men and women ! I’m going to NS next summer, in the Cape Breton area, for camping and fishing. Please tell me of good rivers for fly fishing. Robert

Robert,  You are blessed and will enjoy the great people and friendliness there. Among the most famous rivers is the Margaree.   Margaree Forks is the preferred location.  2nd: Just inside the Cape Breton Highlands National Park just above Cheticamp is the river by the same name…and likely much less fished and with likely more fish…. Although fish enter in late June,  best is late September… so go as late as possible.  Rains. Is cool.   Be prepared.  for a free phone call you can get a whole book about most everything you ever wanted to know about Nova Scotia from tourist bureau.  from U.S. = 1-800-565-0000. Take time to enjoy the local "family" music  Have a bowl of seafood chowder at the Mabou Resturant in Mabou.  and look for fossils along the clifts and watch the eagle feed her young.   tightlines, Alan Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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Question:

Does anyone have any tips on flyfishing at Gold Lake (hwy 58) in Oregon?

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Does anyone have any tips on flyfishing at Gold Lake (hwy 58) in Oregon?

1. Take plenty of mosquito juice. 2. Small nymphs, dries, chronimids. 3. Enjoy Lake is full of 8" brookies and fewer larger rainbow.

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Question:

The local server was down for 10 days. Before then, there was some talk of creating  a separate newsgroup for fly tyers. How do we vote on this?

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The local server was down for 10 days. Before then, there was some talk of creating  a separate newsgroup for fly tyers. How do we vote on this?

Sir, How to vote: Your e-mail message should contain one and only one of the following statements: I vote YES on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying                     or I vote NO on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Votes must be recieved by 23:59:59 utc, 10 Apr 1996 Hope this helps Tight lines Dave

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Question:

: Most people laugh when they see my "go to" fly, but it : has worked when nothing else has. It’s what I call a : Royal Gnat. It looks like a Griffith’s Gnat, but it Stuff deleted : fly fishing. I have caught 19 brown trout in 2 1/2 hours : with this fly (largest one was 14 in.).                                  ^^^^^^ Boy, that’s one big fly! : Darryl Charley

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Dry flies.
My favorite patterns are similar – elk hair caddis, lt cahill, griffin gnat
renegade, adams.  But, and I am a bit ashamed to admit this — I have caught more trout and larger trout on a #16 royal wulff than any other.  There, I said
it.  This fly has seemed to go out of favor, and I wonder why.  Am I the only
one that ties this on when nothing is working???
–
MGC Top Down Design Support

Most people laugh when they see my "go to" fly, but it has worked when nothing else has. It’s what I call a Royal Gnat. It looks like a Griffith’s Gnat, but it has a floss mid-section just like a Royal Coachman. Red floss works well, but I have caught quite a few on green and yellow also. Sizes from 16 to 20. It’s been my experience that even when the fish aren’t rising, that if you drift one of these through a riffle around a dozen times, (if there are any fish) they start coming to the surface to take a look. I know I’m going to get a lot of disbelief on this, thats why I have hesitated writing, but the last time out with a buddy, I gave him a few and told him how to fish them, and he had the best day he ever had fly fishing. I have caught 19 brown trout in 2 1/2 hours with this fly (largest one was 14 in.). Darryl

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Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you guys. I want poeple to talk about fishing not yuppies, Thanks.

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Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you

The most productive pattern over the last two years has been the Micro Worm (a variation on the San Juan worm). Most satisfying experience was last year when we took out a young fellow new to the sport. It was slow fishing but he hooked the first fish of the day, and the last. The last was a twenty five inch Brown. The huge grin that he was sporting is not something that will be soon forgotten. Sort of puts it all back in perspective. Flyfishing is supposed to be fun for all involved. Jim

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A list of favorite patterns would have to include the Tom Thumb, pheasant tail nymph, serendipity(?), comparadun, Werners nymph. I have by best luck on the BlackWater River in B.C. and on the Deschutes in Oregon.

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: Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most : productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light : Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years : of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you : guys. I want poeple to talk about fishing not yuppies, Thanks. My best luck on dry flies comes with a #22 griffith’s gnat, #20 light cahill (both on the swift river), and #16-18 elk hair or poly wing caddis of the appropriate color (on the deerfield river).  The adams can’t be beat for a standard search pattern or as a reasonable facsimile of most hatches.

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For both here in Upper Michigan and Alaska, I like the Humpy.  Great floatability in the fast waters I fish.  I went through no less than forty of them here in the U.P. last year.  My second favorite is the elk hair caddis.      Steve Kernosky   *         Accept me for what I am, Michigan Tech. Univ.  *         completely unacceptable.

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Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you guys. I want poeple to talk about fishing not yuppies, Thanks.

My favorite pattern, the one I find myself digging for again and again is a #20-22 blond elk-hair caddis.  Caught the most on these boys. (central and southern Missouri) My biggist fish (20 1/2"  #4 3/4 Brown) was on a #6 McSalmon on the Madison. Kevin Franden                                   Informix Software, Inc.                                                 16011 College Blvd uunet!infmx!kevinf #include <patchlevel.h fprintf(DISCLAIMER,"I said what I said.n");       You only live once but if you do it right, once is enough                               Carpe Diem

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Lets see who has caught lots of fish on what flies and where? My most productive rivertrout fly is the #14 Elk hair Caddis, and the #14 Light Cahill. The biggest fish I have caught on a dry in my one and a half years of fishing is a 16 in Rainbow on HAt creek in CA. How about all of you guys. I want poeple to talk about fishing not yuppies, Thanks.

I carry lots of  flys but give me a Pheasant Tail Nymph, a Prince Nymph, and an assortment of  Elk Hair caddis and Para-duns and  I’ll be happy 90% of  the time. Here are my favorite patterns Nymphs & wet flys: Pheasant Tail Nymph ( Al Troth version)   Prince Nymph Zug Bug           Jay’s Stone ( my own ) March Brown Spider   Mini Leech                 Wooly Bugger               Dry Flys: Elk Hair Caddis Para-Dun Mac Salmon Dave’s Hopper Black Ant Griffiths Gnat Humpy Old Standbys: Adams Black Gnat Light Cahill Royal Wulff Muddler Minnow Ive done most of my fly fishing in Oregon and I have had the best fishing in these streams and some high lakes: Lower Deschutes Crooked River Metolius Wood Williamson Klamath

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My favorite has to be the Humpie. It’s produced many memorable days. Second is the Parachute Adams or  a similiar fly tied in brown. Biggest was a 24"  Rainbow( really) on a floating foam chrionomid. Bead head hairs ears are the favorite nymph- while maybe the Prince should be number one.

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Re: Dry flies. My favorite patterns are similar – elk hair caddis, lt cahill, griffin gnat renegade, adams.  But, and I am a bit ashamed to admit this — I have caught more trout and larger trout on a #16 royal wulff than any other.  There, I said it.  This fly has seemed to go out of favor, and I wonder why.  Am I the only one that ties this on when nothing is working??? — MGC Top Down Design Support

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Dry flies. My favorite patterns are similar – elk hair caddis, lt cahill, griffin gnat renegade, adams.  But, and I am a bit ashamed to admit this — I have caught more trout and larger trout on a #16 royal wulff than any other.  There, I said it.  This fly has seemed to go out of favor, and I wonder why.  Am I the only one that ties this on when nothing is working??? — MGC Top Down Design Support Most people laugh when they see my "go to" fly, but it has worked when nothing else has. It’s what I call a Royal Gnat. It looks like a Griffith’s Gnat, but it has a floss mid-section just like a Royal Coachman. Red floss works well, but I have caught quite a few on green and yellow also. Sizes from 16 to 20.

This sounds a lot like a "Sierra Bright Dot". It has grizzly hackle at the head and butt of the fly and *bright* orange floss in the middle.  I’ve done real well with them on some high country Sierra Nevada lakes. — John Fereira   "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA Viacom Cable Division

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