Question:

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h

        i’ll be damned if i don’t think i see some tar heel in you goddam cowboys!  good thinkin, and good talkin, bruce! your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

<snipped I’ll get tying some up for us. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

It is working again.

thanks warren, i thought i’d done something miraculous when the treads started coming up readable again. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now.

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up.

i’m not sure but i think they’re slightly larger.  use a tiemco 2488 size 24 and grey thread.  black thread for the rib and a crystal flash emerger wing.  black thread head. i bet we just see continued hatches of those tiny black midges, but who knows. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it.

   I can’t get anything on the web today, just e-mail and newsgroups. Do you think Al Gore got so mad he turned off the internet?

Response:

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long.

I have some black midges that I tied for the Green earlier this year. I’ll remember to bring them for this trip. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though.

Almost sounds like a Grey RS2.  What size? and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib.

Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Are they the tiny little black midges?

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though. and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

<excellent scouting report snipped

Bruce, Thanks for the report. I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it. I’m hoping this spell of good weather we’re having lasts for the Juan get together. Willi

Response:

Willi, I did not get the original post either.   Bruce, Awesome report. Thanks for the selfless act of doing some recon for our benefit. I am sure the other fellow clavers thank you as well. You said people were using dry flies.  Are they the tiny little black midges? bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

<excellent scouting report snipped 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name).

It is working again.  They were doing some maintenence on Deja and that was why it pulled up the weird format for the newsgroups.  When it puts a ‘*’ in the search section it means they are doing some work on the system. always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders.

There is a product called Simmseal (sp?) that works wonders for leaky neoprenes.  It is a liquid neoprene and you just pour a drop on the leak, spread it around a little and let it set.  Very easy fix once you find the leak. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now. — Warren Before you buy.

Response:

I made it up to the SJ saturday to try to figure out where the fish are before everyone shows up.  Here’s a list of mostly unrelated observations: 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name). 2.  It’s certainly tougher to see into the water with the sun so low, but when the fish are making rise forms, either taking emergers or dries, they’re easy to see.  I used several tricks to spot fish holding deeper, because sight fishing with nymphs is one of the most productive methods for me up there.  I stood on the bank, varied my angle, squinted, etc.  Early in the day, you can see into the water well from the north side of the river.  The rest of the day it help to face north and get the sun at your back. 3.  There was maybe 2.5 hrs during the day where the fish were taking dries.  I saw lots of fish on dries out in the current about 200 yards below texas hole – also a good place to get some water to yourself.  I caught fish by just putting emergers on the surface.  When i actually picked out a single fish and used a few different dry fly/tippet combos, all i got was refusals.  Tough customers. 4.  Knowing where the fish are is so important now, so i scouted the area right below the dam where the fish are known to be plentiful, large, and very selective.  They mostly take the tiny midge patterns close to the dam, although lots of folks fish leeches, worms, and eggs up there also.  I picked up only two fish there after lots of work. Both on size 24 red larva.  All day i landed 10 fish and that counts two smaller ones. 5.  Overall it was a bit of a frustrating day.  Ten fish isn’t bad, but i caught about 4 in the last half hour, nymphing deep in the main channel, blind casting where i knew there were fish.  It was cold all day and i dropped 4 or 5 flies before tying them on.  When you drop a size 24 ufo, don’t bother looking for it.  I’m one of those guys who always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders. 6.  I fish there a lot and i’ve got all the patterns and equipment, etc, but getting advice from me is a lot different than fishing with a guide.  For some reason they’ve just got it dialed in, and I think it’s mostly knowing where the fish are holding at that particular time. I’ve only fished with a guide four times up there, and each time i’ve caught far more fish than i would’ve on my own.  If anyone wants a guide for a day, i’d recommend Chris Guikema http://www.sanjuanworm.com – he is friendly and an excellent guide.  Craig at Float n Fish said he’d guide for this group (he knows we’re coming) and fishing with him would be a treat also.  Float n Fish has no website, but they can be reached at 505-632-5385 – Craig or Ray will usually answer the phone. 7.  The water was still clear, lake turnover hasn’t started yet.  Every day that goes by clear increases our chances of encountering cloudy water 8.  Something i’ve noticed lately:  Lots of guys enter the river carrying two rods, one set up for dries, one for nymphs.  At first i thought "give me a break" but when i think about it it makes some sense.  Lots of times i see fish surfacing so i quickly pull the yarn out of my leader and pop the indicator knot out and switch to emergers or a dry and by the time i’ve made the change, maybe three minutes, the fish aren’t rising any more.  So, i switch back to a deep rig and re rig and indicator (5 min) only to find the fish surfacing again. Either i’m real dumb (very likely) or these "two rod" guys have a good idea. I’m really looking forward to seeing/meeting everyone. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

<good story snipped I liked it a lot, Adam. Put me in mind of my favorite Sierra small stream and had me reflexively looking for my hiking boots. thanks, -sid

Response:

<snipped Keep writing stuff like that and you won’t have anyone out to get you.  Well done. Reminded me of a little spot I often go to get away from the hustle and bustle of the tourists. Warren Remember, men will come and men will go, but the streams and mountains go on forever. -Bob Carmichael

Response:

In the early morning light, long sun rays make diamond glints in the dew covered grass.

    (snip)     very well written prose, adam. wayno

Response:

Dear Adam, This is what fly fishing is about. It is not what you catch but where you catch (if you catch). And the more, this is what fly fishing in Continental Europe is about, small streams in Belgium, Northern France and Germany. No huge trout out for your fly (you are more than lucky to catch one of upto 40 cm), but to be away from it all. Marcel From The Netherlands

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the early morning light, long sun rays make diamond glints in the dew covered grass. A spruce forest edges the little meadow in deep blue-green while a sparkling tiny stream draws a shallow meandering line through the alpine valley. Undercut grassy banks border the small riffles below a plunge pool. The solitude is perfect, the setting is awesome and there is room for only one observer at a time. A small stream is enough to re-kindle the fishing flame of one’s youth every time. Creeping or low crawling through the grass, the coolness of the dew soaks into your clothes, but the focus is on a gin clear pool thirty feet ahead. The light fly rod gets caught in the grass, but you casually unhook the tip, careful to clear the rod from the tangle without making sudden movements. Unhooking the fly, stripping out enough line to make a cast to the near side of the pool, you sit up on your feet, crouching to maintain a low profile. Switching two false casts, you shoot a tight loop laying the fly line on the grass with the leader hooking into the pool. The leader is long enough to cross the pool, but you know this and have made a perfect presentation into the tail of the pool in order to not upset the wary brook trout upstream. The cast is unproductive, but that does not slow your racing pulse. A quick pick up and cast again in one smooth movement farther upstream, the caddis mimic alights like a natural. A small piece of the stream bed moves and suddenly the caddis is gone in a swirl. In the same moment, you lift the little fly rod, tightening the line. Telegraphed up the fly line, surges of the brook trout are felt through the light fly rod. Quickly playing the fish to hand, the gemstone colors of the small trout glow brightly. Releasing the trout from the barbless hook completes the act and the scurry for cover is evidence that this one is unharmed. Small stream fly fishing is gaining in popularity. The reasons are easy enough to understand. Solitude in the outdoor is at the top of the list. There are rivers to fish with many anglers if you want to share the experience. Rivers are popular fly fishing destinations and they are reflected on by all forms of the media. Small streams are out of the way, not reported on regularly and introspection, not popularity echoes here. A feeder stream, off the fishing path can provide a afternoon of quiet thoughts while experiencing the outdoors by yourself. There are no television or magazine anglers here, just you and your thoughts among the trees. Outfitting for fly fishing a small stream is a personal choice. A fly rod with a couple of flys in a film canister along with swim trunks makes things simple. On the other hand, a modern fourth generation graphite fly rod with a large arbor reel and specialized mini shooting head fly line can make decisions difficult. Hundreds of stone, caddis, and mayflys in expensive aluminum compartment fly boxes tucked in a ergonomically tailored vest, bulging with the latest gadgetry for the technically minded is another possible choice. Some use a bamboo fly rod made in the early part of the century, possibly handed down in the family. Somewhere in there lies a typical small stream fisher. We are a diverse lot, but we are looking for the same thing, peace in nature’s solitude. Light fly line weights are standard for small streams. Line weights of zero through five are generally considered an advantage when casting for wary trout. The small diameter of a light fly line combined with the light weight reduces the unwanted sight and impact when making a presentation. For small streams, fly sizes are small and wind is usually not a hinderance. A good fly rod choice will be a seven foot three weight. You can give or take a foot in length and a fly line size and still have a good choice for a rod. A small reel without a drag is all that is necessary. Equipment can be as technical or as simple as you want to make it. Fly fishing equipment is a personal choice that should match the fisher and the water being fished. Moving along on a small stream seems to come natural. Most fishing is done in an upstream manner to approach the trout from behind. Trout hold in the current to feed most of the time and their blind spot is to the rear. You need all the help that you can get when the stream is shallow, and the fish are wary of predators. This is because of the lack of deep water and structure to hide in. In order to be successful, a good creeping technique must be developed. Select earth tones for your clothes, a low profile when approaching a productive section, and as few false casts as possible. The better you become, the more your back will hurt! Headhunting, a term that is used for a fly fisher consumed by catching the largest fish does not apply here. Not that a small stream fly angler will turn their back on a large brown trout, that is exactly what some do. This is a technique used to reduce the anglers "presence" to the wary trout when rigging for the situation. The fishing attitude is one of opportunity. If a large trout is caught, it is a gift. The essence is the outdoor experience. To catch a small glistening gem and to give it back to nature, this is what small stream fishing is about. Not a quest for monster trout. On your adventure please remember this. The small stream environment is usually pristine, one single piece of trash is out of place. No impact hiking is a must, and if some trash is found, packing it out is good form. Hiking along, if another angler is present, give him or her a wide berth to minimize the intrusion. Fly fishing small streams is a return to solitude that we all need. A perfect way to enjoy the outdoors. I hope you like my story, adam

Response:

In the early morning light, long sun rays make diamond glints in the dew covered grass. A spruce forest edges the little meadow in deep blue-green while a sparkling tiny stream draws a shallow meandering line through the alpine valley. Undercut grassy banks border the small riffles below a plunge pool. The solitude is perfect, the setting is awesome and there is room for only one observer at a time. A small stream is enough to re-kindle the fishing flame of one’s youth every time. Creeping or low crawling through the grass, the coolness of the dew soaks into your clothes, but the focus is on a gin clear pool thirty feet ahead. The light fly rod gets caught in the grass, but you casually unhook the tip, careful to clear the rod from the tangle without making sudden movements. Unhooking the fly, stripping out enough line to make a cast to the near side of the pool, you sit up on your feet, crouching to maintain a low profile. Switching two false casts, you shoot a tight loop laying the fly line on the grass with the leader hooking into the pool. The leader is long enough to cross the pool, but you know this and have made a perfect presentation into the tail of the pool in order to not upset the wary brook trout upstream. The cast is unproductive, but that does not slow your racing pulse. A quick pick up and cast again in one smooth movement farther upstream, the caddis mimic alights like a natural. A small piece of the stream bed moves and suddenly the caddis is gone in a swirl. In the same moment, you lift the little fly rod, tightening the line. Telegraphed up the fly line, surges of the brook trout are felt through the light fly rod. Quickly playing the fish to hand, the gemstone colors of the small trout glow brightly. Releasing the trout from the barbless hook completes the act and the scurry for cover is evidence that this one is unharmed. Small stream fly fishing is gaining in popularity. The reasons are easy enough to understand. Solitude in the outdoor is at the top of the list. There are rivers to fish with many anglers if you want to share the experience. Rivers are popular fly fishing destinations and they are reflected on by all forms of the media. Small streams are out of the way, not reported on regularly and introspection, not popularity echoes here. A feeder stream, off the fishing path can provide a afternoon of quiet thoughts while experiencing the outdoors by yourself. There are no television or magazine anglers here, just you and your thoughts among the trees. Outfitting for fly fishing a small stream is a personal choice. A fly rod with a couple of flys in a film canister along with swim trunks makes things simple. On the other hand, a modern fourth generation graphite fly rod with a large arbor reel and specialized mini shooting head fly line can make decisions difficult. Hundreds of stone, caddis, and mayflys in expensive aluminum compartment fly boxes tucked in a ergonomically tailored vest, bulging with the latest gadgetry for the technically minded is another possible choice. Some use a bamboo fly rod made in the early part of the century, possibly handed down in the family. Somewhere in there lies a typical small stream fisher. We are a diverse lot, but we are looking for the same thing, peace in nature’s solitude. Light fly line weights are standard for small streams. Line weights of zero through five are generally considered an advantage when casting for wary trout. The small diameter of a light fly line combined with the light weight reduces the unwanted sight and impact when making a presentation. For small streams, fly sizes are small and wind is usually not a hinderance. A good fly rod choice will be a seven foot three weight. You can give or take a foot in length and a fly line size and still have a good choice for a rod. A small reel without a drag is all that is necessary. Equipment can be as technical or as simple as you want to make it. Fly fishing equipment is a personal choice that should match the fisher and the water being fished. Moving along on a small stream seems to come natural. Most fishing is done in an upstream manner to approach the trout from behind. Trout hold in the current to feed most of the time and their blind spot is to the rear. You need all the help that you can get when the stream is shallow, and the fish are wary of predators. This is because of the lack of deep water and structure to hide in. In order to be successful, a good creeping technique must be developed. Select earth tones for your clothes, a low profile when approaching a productive section, and as few false casts as possible. The better you become, the more your back will hurt! Headhunting, a term that is used for a fly fisher consumed by catching the largest fish does not apply here. Not that a small stream fly angler will turn their back on a large brown trout, that is exactly what some do. This is a technique used to reduce the anglers "presence" to the wary trout when rigging for the situation. The fishing attitude is one of opportunity. If a large trout is caught, it is a gift. The essence is the outdoor experience. To catch a small glistening gem and to give it back to nature, this is what small stream fishing is about. Not a quest for monster trout. On your adventure please remember this. The small stream environment is usually pristine, one single piece of trash is out of place. No impact hiking is a must, and if some trash is found, packing it out is good form. Hiking along, if another angler is present, give him or her a wide berth to minimize the intrusion. Fly fishing small streams is a return to solitude that we all need. A perfect way to enjoy the outdoors. I hope you like my story, adam

Response:

Question:

If it inhaled it deep and you had to fight him a long time, make it dinner. 2 weeks ago, had a trout inhale the Mepps deep, and was bleeding.  Cleaned and Bar-B-Qued, he was tasty.  If is not bleeding and looks like it will survive, just cut the line as close to the hook as possible. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

FWIW, I use barbless hooks only, which makes hook removal simple. Also, you won’t lose fish if you keep you line tight during the battle. In the event that a fish has swallowed the hook deeply, I don’t even bother trying to remove it. I just snip the line as close as possible to the hook itself. The fish can survive with a hook in it. I once caught a small trout that swallowed my hook. I kept it figuring it would die if I released it. When I cleaned it, I found a treble hook stuck in it’s throat. Even with that hook in there, it was still eating. Also, I feel it’s important to not have a fish out of the water for longer than say 30 or 40 seconds. I also "handle" fish after I wet my hands with water so as no to remove the slime coat. Obviously, these are just my opinions. Good fishing to you! Bry — "My worst day at work is still better than my best day steelhead fishing"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

: Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang : fish inhaled the hook. : What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to : shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both : times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the : fish. : Any suggestions? I have been catching some small catfish and panfish lately and I have been using a technique that has helped with swallowed hooks.  I started using short shanked hooks and bending the barbs down.  I use forceps to carefully go in though the gills and a little twist easily gets the hook loose.  Then the hook can be removed though the mouth with the forceps. Forceps are cheaper at "Headshops" than at tackle stores.

Response:

Most hooks are made of low grade metal and actually rust quite quickly.  Depending on how far down the hook is, often very little damage or harm ensues. Several years ago, I caught a little brookie.  When I removed my hook from the fish’s mouth, I discovered that there was another hook in the fish’s throat.  It was obviously too low for the previous angler to safely remove it, so I guess he cut his line as close as possible to the hook.  The interesting thing was that most of the shaft of the hook had actually rusted away.  There was just a small length remaining above the curve of the hook.   It obviously did not interfere with the fish’s ability to eat or survive.  It put up a fiesty fight, typical of brook trout! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

If the hook was bronze, the acids in the fish will disolve the hook. You did the right thing V.B.

: Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang : fish inhaled the hook. : What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to : shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both : times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the : fish. : Any suggestions? : Thanks. : AC —

Response:

Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

+AD4- and ended up cutting the line and releasing the +AD4-fish. +AD4- I think you just answered the question yourself. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and pay the price. You only do dammage by trying to retreive a swallowed hook. If the hooks are swallowed but visible as a rule, you could try flattening the barb, but some would argue this to be detrimental. Others won’t. I have no opinion as I have never tried barbless fishing myself. Just a suggestion. Dan in the bush……

Response:

I used to catch wraases with hook and line that were sold live for saltwater aquariums. About 50% of the fish would swallow the hook so deep you couldn’t even see it. I just cut the line and put them in the live well. At the end of the day, usually all the hooks were laying in the bottom of the well. Capt. Jeff Kona, Hawaii http://home1.gte.net/jfrogers

+ADw-7t6ds0+ACQ-l86+ACQ-1+AEA-fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net+AD4-… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -+AD4- and ended up cutting the line and releasing the +AD4-fish. +AD4- I think you just answered the question yourself. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and pay the price. You only do dammage by trying to retreive a swallowed hook. If the hooks are swallowed but visible as a rule, you could try flattening the barb, but some would argue this to be detrimental. Others won’t. I have no opinion as I have never tried barbless fishing myself. Just a suggestion. Dan in the bush……

Response:

My suggestion is to gaff it, bring it onboard and have the deckhands fillet it. If it’s gut-hooked, and it fought, that would seem to really screw up the innards. I know when I catch an albie that swallowed the bait, blood gushes out of the mouth. Hard to believe that the fish would survive. Just keep reasonable limits, and respect the resource. It’s a sport, not a subsistance. RD Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

– Caltees – Home of Guy Harvey, Al Agnew, Habitat and Military Printed Tees http://www.caltees.com

Response:

One way that helps in releasing fish is to use a barbless hook.  As long as you keep the line tight the fish will hardly ever come off!   Tight Lines Lorne — If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there’d be a shortage of fishing poles. -Doug Larson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions? Thanks. AC

Response:

Hello.  I went fishing this past week and had a problem 2 times…the dang fish inhaled the hook.

This happens to me quite often during the fishing season.  There is no way to avoid this, if you fish, you have to accept the fact that occasionally, fish WILL swallow th hook. What is the best thing to do in this circumstance?  I feel it is akin to shooting and wounding a deer but not killing it.  I tried unsucesfully both times to remove the hook, and ended up cutting the line and releasing the fish. Any suggestions?

Yes, what you did is exactly the correct thing.  You should try to quickly remove the hook, if unsuccessful, then either cut the line or in the case of large lures, use a sidecutter pliers or a small bolt cutter and cut the hook.  I have caught many apparently healthy fish with a leader or a section of line hanging out of their mouth.  Just today, while out with my editor from http://www.lake-link.com I caught a small northern pike with a section of line going down into his gullet.  There was nothing wrong with the fish and he was released again. One thing’s for certain, the survival rate for fish that are kept and filleted is zero, so release, there is always a chance that they will make it.

Response:

Question:

Couple of friends and I are interested in doing some fly fishing (2 of us are trying to learn) in Ontario this spring.  I was told that there are lakes in Ontario with white fish (considered "rough" but with commercial value) that take Mayflies on the surface.  We naturally thought this would be an ideal way to learn to fly fish and catch some fish as well.  Does anyone know of such lakes?  Has anyone done this?  Is this a bizarre idea? Thank you. Kwan Soo

Response:

Couple of friends and I are interested in doing some fly fishing (2 of us are trying to learn) in Ontario this spring.  I was told that there are lakes in Ontario with white fish (considered "rough" but with commercial value) that take Mayflies on the surface.  We naturally thought this would be an ideal way to learn to fly fish and catch some fish as well.  Does anyone know of such lakes?  Has anyone done this?  Is this a bizarre idea? Thank you. Kwan Soo

        I’ve always found white fish to be bottom feeders, it would surprise me to see them come up for a dry. But, it could happen. I would think you would have much better luck with wet flies. Good luck.

Response:

Kwan Soo, Better look for a medium sized river that has some trout and a good hatch. This is much better and a lot easier than a lake and white fish. I am sure you will like this. Frans Bosman Amsterdam

Response:

White fish like Lake trout are deep water bottom feeders.  The only time they come in shallow and to the surface is early spring and late fall when the water is really cold.  You have to be here before turnover in the spring and after turnover in the fall.  The timing could be really tricky. Any of the Great lakes tributaries have them.  They come in to high current areas to feed and spawn much like walleye.  Buttermilk Falls on Boshkung lake in Ontario’s Haliburton Highlands has a great run Canadian newsgroup that will have more info.  I’ve never heard of flyfishing for them but where you find white fish you’ll probably find lake trout too.  I doubt you will have much success just because of how the feed.  I’d think a streamer on a sinking line would work better then flies.  I’ve never seen a whitefish rise before.  Your are allowed to keep 25 whitefish a day in Ontario and they average about 3 pounds and are excellent fighters.  They have the most paper thin mouths of any species of fish I’ve encountered and not losing the majority of the fish hooked is impossible.  In the summer whitefish are caught in 100 feet or deeper water and always on bottom.

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Question:

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated. Hi Black caddis (#18 – #20), tan caddis (#14) and Trico’s (#20) are the main hatches at that time of the year.  You need to call the different shops in Fort Smith to schedule a guide OR you can rent a boat and do your own trip.  Usually people fish the first 13 miles of the Big Horn below Yellowtail Dam.  There are three fishing access locations 1. After Bay at Fort Smith, 2. Three Mile, and 3. Big Horn (13 mile).  Usually people float from either After Bay or Three Mile to Big Horn access.  There are many places along the way to stop and wade fish. I’m not sure what the stream flows will be in September but last week the river was fairly high and moving right along.  There was still great fishing.  To monitor the stream flows for the Big Horn AND the rest of Montana check out the Current Stream Flow report on the net at http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/rt/rt_table.html Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

A good place to stay on the Big Horn is the Cottonwood Camp.  They are located below Ft. Smith near Three Mile. There units are small campers or converted camper bus.  Shower and store facilities at the site.  Cost was $10.00 per person per night.  Couldn’t beat the cost or the hospitality.  Enjoy!!

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Al, I’m going to be in Bozeman next weekend, Friday thru Monday, (August 1-4).  Can you recommend a guide for nearby waters?  How about flies for this time of year? Thanks, Bob McAnulty PS:  Will you also forward address, phone number, hours info on your shop? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated. Hi Black caddis (#18 – #20), tan caddis (#14) and Trico’s (#20) are the main hatches at that time of the year.  You need to call the different shops in Fort Smith to schedule a guide OR you can rent a boat and do your own trip.  Usually people fish the first 13 miles of the Big Horn below Yellowtail Dam.  There are three fishing access locations 1. After Bay at Fort Smith, 2. Three Mile, and 3. Big Horn (13 mile).  Usually people float from either After Bay or Three Mile to Big Horn access.  There are many places along the way to stop and wade fish. I’m not sure what the stream flows will be in September but last week the river was fairly high and moving right along.  There was still great fishing.  To monitor the stream flows for the Big Horn AND the rest of Montana check out the Current Stream Flow report on the net at http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/rt/rt_table.html Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated.

Hi Black caddis (#18 – #20), tan caddis (#14) and Trico’s (#20) are the main hatches at that time of the year.  You need to call the different shops in Fort Smith to schedule a guide OR you can rent a boat and do your own trip.  Usually people fish the first 13 miles of the Big Horn below Yellowtail Dam.  There are three fishing access locations 1. After Bay at Fort Smith, 2. Three Mile, and 3. Big Horn (13 mile).  Usually people float from either After Bay or Three Mile to Big Horn access.  There are many places along the way to stop and wade fish. I’m not sure what the stream flows will be in September but last week the river was fairly high and moving right along.  There was still great fishing.  To monitor the stream flows for the Big Horn AND the rest of Montana check out the Current Stream Flow report on the net at http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/rt/rt_table.html Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ubject:        Re: How do you spline a 4 piece rod? Huskers writes: I have never built a 4 piece rod before.  How do you spline it? Each Piece individually, two 2-piece sections or what?  The blanks in the mail so… Help! Well, consider that you cast the entire rod, not the individual sections.  Spine the entire blank, all put together. Very bad advice. You can end up with a very odd handling rod. The tip section spline and mid-section splines should be determined and the butt section, if possible, also. Buy a book on custom rod building to learn the complete procedure for splining. Del Clemens, L.A. Garcia or Skip Morris all have written good rod building books. The general method is to bend a section against a table and rotate the section at the same time. There should be two bumps or jumps during the rotation, the larger jump locates the spline. A short butt section spline might be hard to detect. Mark each section’s spline position for use during guide placement. A fly rod  built with the guides located 180 degrees from the spline. Each section’s spline will line up with the other splines when you assemble the completed rod. Don Burns IHMO, use at your own risk, etc.    

I usually locate the spline on each section of a 4 pc., then assemble it into 2 pcs and re-check. Haven’t had one move yet…

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A new web site has info on how to spline a rod. URL:       http://fishdoc.com/ Also has guide spacing for rods, looks like Sage guide spacing. Don Burns P.S. For those of you who keep asking me about why "Spin4trout", AOL for some reason doesn’t allow screen-names to start with the word "FLY". G.O.K!!!  Tried "trout"+xxx – no luck. Didn’t like troutxyz, trout069 or troutvjfvfj and other unused names. After 30 minutes of trying to get a name somehow related to flyfishing I gave up. Since I’ve used my spinning gear with my dad, fishing for lake trout since the 1960’s, I came up with "spin4trout".  Sorry guys. Now if I could find a cheap Ross C-1 or Lamson 1.0,  I might be willing to turn in my spinning rods. <G

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 I agree with the splining advise but would add one thing.  I use a weight on a piece of monofillement with a loop on the end. This I pass over the thin end of the rod piece very loosely. Then turn the section on a table as mentioned before. You can watch the weight dip. Use different size weights for each section. On the 3 weight I I built I use about 1 oz for the tip section, but about 2 lbs for the butt section.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ubject:     Re: How do you spline a 4 piece rod? Huskers writes: I have never built a 4 piece rod before.  How do you spline it? Each Piece individually, two 2-piece sections or what?  The blanks in the mail so… Help! Well, consider that you cast the entire rod, not the individual sections.  Spine the entire blank, all put together.

Very bad advice. You can end up with a very odd handling rod. The tip section spline and mid-section splines should be determined and the butt section, if possible, also. Buy a book on custom rod building to learn the complete procedure for splining. Del Clemens, L.A. Garcia or Skip Morris all have written good rod building books. The general method is to bend a section against a table and rotate the section at the same time. There should be two bumps or jumps during the rotation, the larger jump locates the spline. A short butt section spline might be hard to detect. Mark each section’s spline position for use during guide placement. A fly rod  built with the guides located 180 degrees from the spline. Each section’s spline will line up with the other splines when you assemble the completed rod. Don Burns IHMO, use at your own risk, etc.    

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Question:

Anybody know some goods spot in and around Ottawa Canada for some trout fly fishing. Luc Nocente — Luc Nocente

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Ottawa is more a bass/pike hotspot than trout, but I’ve heard that there are now Brown trout in the Ottawa River (Quebec has been stocking them). The flyfishing for bass in the Ottawa is good, and for that alone is worth bringing your rod alone. Try the rapids from Britannia Filtration plant downstream. The Ottawa is a big river and can be fearsome in high water.

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Ottawa is more a bass/pike hotspot than trout, but I’ve heard that there are now Brown trout in the Ottawa River (Quebec has been stocking them).

Confirmed:  a 3 or 4 lb. brown was reported taken at Britannia 13 months ago, and I got a 10-inch brown during the summer.  Local folklore has it that, because the Ottawa River is the frontier between Ontario and Quebec provinces, fisheries managers are not supposed to stock it:  but one or more managers dumped surplus trout there just to see if they could survive and reproduce — which my 10-inch fish suggests is possible. The flyfishing for bass in the Ottawa is good, and for that alone is worth bringing your rod alone. Try the rapids from Britannia Filtration plant downstream. The Ottawa is a big river and can be fearsome in high water.

This is why early fly fishing has been poor this year.  When the water warmed up enough, hydro dams upstream were opened to run off extra snow melt or rain, and the good spots are now too deep and the current too strong.  Fly fishing for bass is best done wading (and from July one can wade wet i.e. in shorts and sneakers).  Anywhere with exposed rocks and mixed current and quiet water can be good.  There are reliable hatches at sundown half the time in July-August, when besides bass other species can be taken e.g. mooneye and walleye. —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

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Hello Donald Please reply here and in e-mail,I’m curious if this get’s out…sorry folks just a test for the moment Tight Lines Dale Kent … I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet! |Fidonet:  Dale Kent 1:351/400

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Rather than the Ottawa River, I’d suggest the Mississippi (the *other* one, in the Ottawa suburbs). Nice smallmouth, pleasant surroundings. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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: Rather than the Ottawa River, I’d suggest the Mississippi (the *other* : one, in the Ottawa suburbs). Nice smallmouth, pleasant surroundings. : — Speaking of which, I was FFishing the Mississippi just below a set of rapids/waterfalls and could *see* some really nice smallmouth, but dammit all I could catch were lots of rockbass. I mean, the rockbass were *fun* but I was getting really frustrated with the smallies. Now, I was using a wooly bugger for a while, brown and black, and then changed to smaller nymphs, and kept catching the panfish, but no bass. Sigh. Still, the spin casters were catching *nothing* so I was happy. — Chris Pawlowicz, Research Engineer Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

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Hi My name is Matt I am an acomplished fisherman (meaning im not some young dork who doesn’t know a thing about fishing but brags cause he spent a lot on his gear) any way I am doing a project for school on fishing around the world if you could get any info to my address at home by tonight I would greatly appreciate it……and if anyone needs help or advice on fishing in nothern and central New Jersey or eastern Penn I would be happy to give it out…. Thanks in advance, Matt, age 16

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any way I am doing a project for school on fishing around the world if you could get any info to my address at home by tonight I would greatly appreciate it……

In my day, Matt, we would wait unitl the morning the project was due before starting research. . . . –sean williams

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any way I am doing a project for school on fishing around the world if you could get any info to my address at home by tonight I would greatly appreciate it…… In my day, Matt, we would wait unitl the morning the project was due before starting research. . . . –sean williams

Given the delays inherent in posting to newgroups, he waited until the day after it was due 8^( Hope graduation isn’t in jeapardy! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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Question:

I suppose it is a question of numbers.  I like solitude when I fish — yes, I do more walking now then I use to.  A few years ago before kayaking and rafting was all the rage, a kayaker or two floating by now and then was no big deal. Now, however, I’ve simply given up on water frequented by this crew; it is a steady, continuous stream of sometimes polite, but often not, kayakers and crowded rafts, at least in daylight hours.   It has become their river, not mine or that of most fisherman I know.  And, it would seem, some kayakers and rafters prefer solitude also and so I find them increasingly in places they never were before — even tubbers in relatively quiet waters! I would favor seasons on such waters.  One for fishing, one for rafting.  In the latter case, I would surrender the river during high run-off times, and restrict it to fishing, swimming, picnics, etc. during the rest of the year (now, there is no rest of the year, at least during warmer weather).  When this first got going, it was high, white water that attracted rafters and kayakers.  Now it seems to be almost anytime. The commercial folks would probably have a fit though, and probably the resort owners catering to fishermen as well.   idle thoughts, Richard Wildman

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A world away from the rafts, kayaks, tubes and outfitters… Started my fishing season after work yesterday, hitting the beach down the street to see if the first run of stripers had reached Maine yet. Usually this happens about May 15th, but the winter was mild, the sun was shining and the tide was right. Packed the family lab into the Jeep pickup and brought the light rod, the 8 weight….Powell (Yeah, you thought I was going to say Orvis weren’t you…). No cars at the beach, might as well let the beast run. Little tide so the rip wasn’t too intense as I waded out into the surf. I expected Cassidy to dive in after my fly since I usually leave her in the truck when I fish, but somehow she knew not to. Swam a bit, then went about the business of terrorizing the local bird population. Chartreuse clouser drew no interest nor did the surf candy. If these two don’t do it there ain’t no fish there yet, but I continued casting, enjoying the feel of the waves on my chest. Decided to do a test on a big bulky pattern I tied to imitate bunker. Looks good dry, but I wanted to see how it cast & tracked. It’s really a 2/0 white deceiver, which is then sheathed in Enrico’s sea fiber (lavender) with 2 strips of flashabou on each side, big eyes and an epoxy head and herl on top. About 8" long. I was concerned that the sea fiber would absorb water and cast like a wet towel, but was real glad to find otherwise. I think this will be a good material for building cow flies, check it out. Anyways after 2 hours I knew the run hadn’t started yet, called in the dog and decided to walk up the Mousam River. Once the run starts this place will be elbow to elbow with fishermen, and I will retreat to the treacherous crags and cliffs where every fish is a surprise, returning here only when the weather is bad enough to keep sane people at home. But tonight the beach is ours and as we sit watching the reflection of the sunset in a tidal pool, listening to the cadence of the surf I think of the t-shirt that says ‘Maine: The Way Life Should Be’ and I think "Yup, it sure is."                               john cloyd

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: …Now, however, I’ve simply given up on water frequented : by this crew; it is a steady, continuous stream of sometimes : polite, but often not, kayakers and crowded rafts, at : least in daylight hours.   : I would favor seasons on such waters.  One for fishing, : one for rafting.  In the latter case, I would surrender : the river during high run-off times, and restrict it to : fishing, swimming, picnics, etc. during the rest of the year : (now, there is no rest of the year, at least during warmer : weather).   : …The commercial folks would probably have a fit though, : and probably the resort owners catering to fishermen as well.   They are.  This argument is currently in full dress in Hells Canyon on the Snake River in Central Idaho.  In this case it is jet boaters vs. the kayakers and rafters.  No road access, so very little fishing pressure.   The kayakers and rafters are pushing hard, and winning, for a short season for power boaters.  The commercial oufits are screaming loudly.  I wonder how the kayakers and rafters would view your plan?  Everywhere is becoming too crowded, except for a few places I won’t talk about here or in books.  I wish everyone would follow that advice. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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Question:

Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ? Anyone with any experiences pro or con would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron Ronald W Becker California " looking here and there for an interesting sight or two"

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Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ? Anyone with any experiences pro or con would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron

    My advise, as both a warm and cold water tuber, is to borrow one and fish the waters where you will want to spend most of your time. Find out as cheaply as possable if it is for you. Ask your fishing buddies or the tubers that you see at your lake. Folks love to share their experiences!     You will hear that one type of geer is best or that you will need such and such a thing, unless you have money to burn go slow. Some of the young guys like to use big hard fins that would kill me. So what is perfect for others is not always right for you. I started out with the cheapest, bare bones tube that I could find. Fished it for large mouth bass in warm water for a spring/summer and was quite happy with what I could do with it. So, the next spring I took it up into the mountains, 10,000 feet, high and cold. Found out that I needed more stuff, neophrene waiders, thermals, and an air pump. My point is, to not buy everything that you think that you could possiably ever need when you start. Grow into it.     Also, after a couple tubes, I found that the delux, high priced models, didn’t really improve the experience for me and infact made it somewhat more difficult because I tended to fill up all the pockets with stuff and then had to carry/kick the added weight. Though for equipment junkies the added features is just great.      Tubes are great in my opinion, and if you think that you are interested in the quiet, solitude, control, and exercise, go for it! brian

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Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ? Anyone with any experiences pro or con would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron

I was thinking of picking up a tube for river and pond fishing around Central Ohio late this summer, but decided on what is known as a kickboat.  If you don’t know, a kickboat is generally a small dual-pontoon type craft, with a fixed seat between the two pontoons.  Advantanges over tubes are that they are more stable, more comfortable, offer more storage, and you can add oar kits and even trolling motors to some.  Disadvantages are that they are slightly bigger, take more time to assemble, and are generally more expensive. I bought a J&R Outfitters Kingfisher III.  It’s a nice boat: the length is about 9′, very well constructed, and assembles very quickly.  I was also able to fit it in the back of my Eagle Talon!  I purchased mine with the optional oar kit (this is a fixed-oar kit with a kick bar to rest your feet), and a rear storage/cooler rack (will support up to 50 pounds).  The boat supports a total of 450 pounds, and again, is very stable.  I plan to buy the trolling motor when it’s ready in January. Again, they are expensive (I paid a total of 600.00 for the boat, oar kit, and storage rack, and the trolling motor kit will run 400.00), but I think they are better than tubes for a couple of reasons: one, you get a fixed seat with backrest and armrests. Secondly, you can get an oar kit, which is much better than kick-fins in most occassions.  Third, they hold more gear.  Lastly, you can keep your butt dry and not necessarily need waders!  They take a little while to assemble if you don’t put them together before leaving home (mine takes about 20 minutes including the 10 it takes to inflate the pontoons with a hand pump), and are heavy to lug around (although mine is a deluxe: you can get smaller, less expensive units that also weigh less), but I do like mine.   It was great catching the largest smallmouth I’ve ever caught (a little over 4 pounds) on it’s maden voyage! In all honesty, I’ll probably buy a tube this spring for the times I don’t need to cover a lot of water!

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: Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ? : Anyone with any experiences pro or con would be appreciated. : Thanks, Ron : Ronald W Becker : California : " looking here and there for an interesting sight or two"         Hey Ron,         Don’t use them in shark infested waters or in lakes with six foot snappin turtles!! Seriously, I’ve been fly fishing out of one for 2 years and love it. If fly fishing, I recomend at least an 8 ft rod. Also pisses the landlocked guys off when you haul in a trophy right out of their casting range!! Kinda fun!                                         dale — End of network mail

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Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ?

I would like to try this. But I don’t feel comfortable flowing down the river in a tube with myself somewhat tangled in it.  Can someone provide some statistics on the safety issue.  Thanks, Simon  

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