Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fishing Flies

Seeking Actively Feeding Fish in Unconvential Places (LONG)

admin — Tue, 04 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting. In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis. In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments. Body length is 3/4". Three tails almost twice as long. Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. —

Thanks Warren, the two insects do sound very similar indeed: very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch? Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) . I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?) Regards, Mike.

Response:

Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting. In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis. In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments. Body length is 3/4". Three tails almost twice as long. Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

If it’s not one damn thing, it’s something else. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

didn’t stick much in the valley. The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

Our snowpack is a whopping 293% and the rivers are running at normal levels (16,300 cfs) on the lower Clark Fork. Heading up to Rock Creek with the Fam on Thursday. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks.

Will do. I still have your fly from one of the swaps set aside as my example pattern. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this.

Same here. Not sure how much rain we received total, but it rained most of the weekend and most of yesterday too. We had snow at times, but it didn’t stick much in the valley. The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out. In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too. That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though….. I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more. Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too.

Response:

I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out. In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too. That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though….. I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more. Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Gary, I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect. I assume that you took the photos? Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael. It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know.

Thanks Gary, yes indeed I would quite like to see the pikkies, so please email them to me. From what you say it seems like the english Mayfly is similar to the american Green Drake. Regards, Michael.

Response:

Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help! Best regards, Gary

Response:

The Western Green Drake is Drunella grandis or Drunella doddsi. The duns are pretty much an olive color all over. They emerge in the middle of the day, and they darken in color after emergence. The cool thing about the Green Drakes, from a flyfisherman’s point of view, is that the duns spend a long time on the surface, and there are lots of cripples. The mating flights and the spinner falls occur very late and into the night. These are big mayflies, but not nearly as big as the Brown Drake. The Big Wood River in Idaho has a superb Green Drake hatch in June. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Many apologies for my making myself unclear yet again. What I really mean is not the natural flies that you haven’t seen, but the artificials that your friend showed you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help!

Thanks for the info Gary, I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect. I assume that you took the photos? Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

Response:

It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know. Best, Gary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.

Willi, I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously. After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

I have only fished into the night a few times when I was a kid. The river in light is a wonderous place, but for a 10 year old, the darkness of night makes the water kind of creepy. In ordinary days out fishing these days, I have to be home by a reasonable hour (wife & all that…) and so I’ll probably not get much opportunities for night / evening fishing ~ besides, 21 years later, I still remember how creepy the river became in darkening light PS, I had an excellent day’s fishing on my favourite stretch today. The weather was excellent (overcast, no wind and no rain but fairly warm) and there was a lot of activity taking place. The E. danica Mayfly spinners were dancing around laying their eggs. I was amazed at how many there were, considering the carnage that was wrought upon the duns. Anyhow, I had a number of pheasant tail dryflies that I had already chosen to use for the day. The fly is a simple creation of 3 PT fibres for the tail & body, and a ginger cock hackle wound fairly bushy. I have a streamlined variant with less hackle to be used in the really tricky spots where I have to cast under overhanging branches, but that is not a durable floater for general fishing. I caught about 20 fish at an average of about 3/4 lb each fish and quite a few indeed over the pound mark ~ 1 to be cooked on the smoker tomorrow. This season has seen a beefing up of the fish stock and I’m sure that the fish are bigger than that that I have become used to over the 6 years that I have fished this stream. I saw an absolute clonker leap several feet out of the water, it looked good for 2 pounds. However by the time that I reached this fish, the river went strange and my fly had become out of vogue ~ nothing went for my fly at all! Half an hour earlier I had just finished a period of about 3 hours whereby most fish that I covered rose to my fly. I had been very pleased with the fly’s performance, just as I had expected it to do since it is a good choice for this time of the year (and it is easy to tie up too). As I worked my way slowly towards the area where I saw the big fish rise, I encountered some smaller fish bulging. I wanted to turn these fish downstream of me without spooking the big trout, and so aimed to hook up as many of these fish as I could and bring them downstream and then release the tension in the line so that the hook falls out (no barbs) and releases the fish. This is a good method of clearing a shallow section of water so that the angler may proceed slightly further upstream to a target fish. I started this plan, but to no avail! The fish totally stopped taking my fly, and by the time I reached the area where the big one had been rising I did not have a single rise, despite a few fly changes, including a PT nymph. I have to admit defeat on this pool / glide, as I couldn’t entice a thing despite seeing many rises. I like this pool as it a challenging but beautiful stretch of water some 50 yards long with many fish. Cheers for now, Michael.

Response:

From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass!

Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? The flight of a newly hatched Mayfly E. danica dun is quite a sight indeed. The creatures fly relatively slowly with rapid whirring of the wings and with the tail more or less pointing towards the water. It takes them a bit of time to get the momentum up and during this time they are quite prone to aerial assults by the trout! I thoroughly recommend your seeing a drake hatch as it is like a festival on the stream. The trout really go crazy and severely reveal their presence with savage swirls / splashes / leaps and so on. On the rivers that I fish that have the E. danica, it seems like the hatching of this burrowing nymph is the trout’s primary seasonal harvest, and the trouts’ indulgence is such that caution is temporarily thrown to the wind. After the E. danica hatch is over the river quietens down progressively through the months June July & August. In late August the stream can be very quiet indeed, and only the nymph seems to be successful in enticing fish to participate in my days’ operations. During September, things liven up a little, but by the end of the month it becomes close season, with the cold winter days soon to come. I have come to believe that the hatching out of the E. danica is more or less the trouts’ raison d’etre, as it effectively forms the peak of the trouts’ feeding activities. [Just like for me, catching trout on a beautiful stream is my raison d'etre!!!!] Without the E. danica, the trout hold station and help themselves only to the morcels that pass by, with the odd excursion to snatch a sedge; little energy is expended on such table scraps. When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously. After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout , and the yearlings / 2 year olds all return to their regular (non-danica) places. The big trout then all disappear back to their lies in various alder roots at the heads of runs & pools and become somewhat more difficult to catch until the next danica hatch that is…. In England, the month of May is the dryfly month, as that is when the upwinged flies start to hatch out in earnest. The last 2 weeks in May and the first week of June are really busy days with the dryfly and it is great fun just to be there: fishing and catching fish is merely the icing on the cake. That being said, I also like the "dogdays" of late summer too, as exploration work with the nymph is just as much fun as fishing the dryfly, and more demanding of the angler’s concentration and skills etc. Regards, Michael.

Response:

Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously. After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout

My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night. Willi

Response:

Snip. Thanks. Very well-written and a useful read.

Response:

[a very informative snip] These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Willi, just found this little gem of a post. It seems like you’re describing the upper Grand, just below Belwood dam – long stretches of medium-slow to slow water broken by riffles and chutes. During hatches and off-colour water, these slow areas can be full of fish but in clear, low, no-hatch conditions they seem devoid of fish. This river has a limestone bottom that is fairly flat in spots yet it has underwater ledges that change the depth by 6" or so, providing holding spots for fish. I’ll work these waters from top to bottom, side-to-side with a streamer by wading downstream right down the middle and casting bank to bank. I’ve seen the "truck bed coverage" pattern of rising fish in slow water and though I have caught them on dries, though anticipating their next move can be frustrating (especially in a trico spinner fall) so I often fish them with a small streamer run very shallow and fast. Even though they are keyed on a specific bug, they will usually smack a well presented streamer, since they are already in the feeding mood. Your post is a clear statement that anglers should spend as much time observing as they spend fishing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

One question for you Willi: do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side? Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.

I did a web search and it seems that we don’t have that specific Mayfly although we do have a number of burrowing Mayflies across the country that are generically called Drakes. These Drake hatches bring up the big fish and also bring out anglers from all over to fish them. From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance

to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass! The Mayflies on my home river are mainly small, 18 to 22. The exception is a large bright yellow Mayfly that hatches at dusk and into the night in July and August. I caught the largest trout I’ve taken on a dry during this hatch. The problem is that the hatch is strong enough to really interest the fish only once every five years or so. While at the Penn’s Clave, I got to see and fish some March Brown Mayflies. I thought they were huge but I was told that they were small compared to the Green Drakes. Willi

Response:

Good stuff snipped. Willi, this is an excellent post and something that I have also experienced, albeit in a very much minor scale to yours. My rivers are much smaller than yours, however the trout do tend to move around in a similar fashion although probably proportionally to the size of the rivers concerned. I have often found trout in the most bizarre places in the stream that I ordinarily wouldn’t have bothered casting to. It is only when I have seen the sizeable fish flee from my upstream wading that I have gathered their presence in these particular spots, or else I have been very much surprised by a very much swirlsome rise in a strange spot. In later visits I would target these areas, and indeed some good trout have been taken by my rod from these previously "fishless" spots. On my fave stream (of which I posted a pikkie in ABPF some weeks ago) there is a cow drinking spot that is at the very tail end of a long slow glide / straight pool. Immediately in front of the shallow draining section are often very big fish for the river 1.5lb plus) in the very shallow water (1 foot deep). I initially found these fish out years ago by all of their massive bow waves as they all shot off when I went wading up to them in ignorance. I paid attention to this observation and over the years have had a lot of fun trying to deceive these fish. On average, these trout in this spot have bettered my tactics as it is quite difficult to present a fly to them in consideration of the prevailing circumstances. These are very tricky fish to cast to with my small 6 foot rod: in order not to scare the fish by my presence, I have to cast at the fish whilst standing in fast water ~ if I am not careful, the drag on my line closest to me will accelerate the fly and drag it too fast past the fish. I have to be sure to collect line quickly and to hold the rod as high as possible to avoid excessive downstream drag on the fly. My most favoured approach is to use a PT nymph and pitch it about 18 inches upstream of the trout with a snaky cast (i.e. twang the flyline taut about 1 foot above the surface of the water to induce curves in the flyline / leader. The trick is to try to mend the flyline so as the fly doesn’t suddenly accelerate when the curves are all brought straight by the dragging current. A nice slow start by the nymph is much preferred over the sudden acceleration. Recently I have tried to get back into dryfly fishing, and this spot is very tricky indeed with the floating fly, however a bushier fly gives more time for the fly to be drifted over the trout before the dreaded drag acceleration. (that being said, I have caught plenty of fish with a dragging fly (usually accidentally) !!. One question for you Willi: do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side? Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out. The trout all go completely nuts for them, and the biggies come out into the pool tails and are relatively prone to the fly angler for the first half of the fortnight at least. The trout seem to be so transfixed with the Mayfly that they will not see the error of the angler. For the rest of the year the biggies seem to disappear and are difficult to engage. During the Mayfly (in England the Mayfly is a specific species of ephemerid, and it is disproportionally bigger than most other upwinged aquatic fly) fortnight the regular structure of trout feeding locations is more or less inverted and we find the big fish out in the open slow water, chasing down mayfly duns anywhere they see them. I have seen on many occasions trout leap clear of the water to intercept an E. danica as it fluttered a foot or so over the water’s surface. Regards, Michael.

Response:

There is a section of my home river where a walking/biking/jogging path runs above the river on a bluff for about a half mile. This high vantage point provides an unusual and ideal opportunity to observe the comings and going of the trout. It took me a couple of years before I began to utilize this viewing area. At first, I used the path to walk from one spot to the next or else I just waded along the banks of the river. One day, I happened to stop along the path and while looking down into the river saw a good fish feeding, suspended in the water about a foot below the surface, in an area I had ignored in the past. I took the time to check out more of the area, and found numerous good fish feeding in areas that I had passed by before because they didn’t "fit the mold" of good spots. After this first encounter, I’ve made it a habit to make observations of this stretch of water from the overlooking path on a consistent basis. I’ve learned a number of things watching the trout in this area over the years but two things I’ve learned that have changed the way I fish are: trout will move considerable distances to feed and they will choose feeding stations that are "unconventional" based on what is described by most of the angling literature. I’ve been watching these trout for most of the fifteen years I’ve lived here and have found that different fish, for their own reasons, choose different feeding areas. From my observations, it seems that the same fish choose the same stations while actively feeding, at least during water levels where I can observe and/or fish. Trout feed in a variety of locations throughout a stream or river. Some trout move very little from their holding positions to feed even during strong hatches. There are other fish who leave their holding locations to move to active feeding stations. Many of them will do this at specific times of the day depending on the season and will then return to their deeper holding water. I’ve followed fish for several hundred yards as they return to the pool after being spooked off their feeding station. Hatches will also draw them to these areas even if these hatches are at different times than their "regular" schedule. I enjoy fishing for and finding these actively feeding fish for a number of reasons. The fish have moved into these positions for one reason only, to feed and because of this, they are very vulnerable to being caught. Another reason that these fish are worth pursuing is that many of these areas are ignored by the average angler and more often produce better fish. In heavily fished water, and especially in water with open regulations, the better fish have a tendency to feed in areas where they aren’t likely to be caught. An Overview of this Stretch of Observable Water The bottom end of this stretch is the largest and deepest pool in about four or five miles of river that is form by a small diversion dam. This massive pool holds alot of fish. The head of the pool is a broad area of moderate current. The water is slower moving and the bottom more regular than the heads of pools on most western waters. Upstream from the head there is a long flat that runs upstream for about a third of a mile. The current is very moderate to slow and the bottom is regular with very few features. It averages about three feet in depth during higher water conditions, about two feet during average conditions and as low as a foot during low water conditions. There are a few depressions in this stretch where the water is about twice the average depth. At the upstream end of this flat there is a run about two hundred feet in length made up of irregular, faster, slightly deeper water. Upstream of the run there is a short area of very shallow rapid/pocket water. The Head of the Pool The head of the pool always holds some fish, but during nonfeeding times, the fish are all small. During periods of feeding activity, a good number of fish utilize the head of the pool. There is usually a pod of fish just off the near bank in the deepest water just upstream of the pool. These are moderate sized fish although I’ve seen one or two very big ones over the years. This is classic feeding water but it is also the heaviest fished part of this stretch of river. I think that there would be more, better fish using this feeding station but since it is heavily fished and the river has open regulations, I think the better fish that utilize it are regularly caught and kept. Just upstream, the water gains a bit of velocity as it becomes more shallow. There are scattered fish throughout this area using the slightly bigger rocks or slight depressions to deflect the current while they feed on the food being swept by. These trout, as a rule, are better than average sized fish. The largest number of fish that feed in the head of the pool, feed on the sloping bar of shallow water on the far side of the river. The bar starts at the far bank and gradually deepens to about three feet in depth until it drops off into the pool at the head. This bar seldom gets fished because it is where 90%+ of the anglers stand to fish the obvious deep run along the near bank. The fish on this bar will consistently feed in water from one to three feet deep but will move into water just inches deep if the hatch is heavy and the sun isn’t direct. This sloping bar holds all sizes of fish. I caught the biggest fish I’ve caught in the river on this bar. It was caught at sunset on a summer eve, on a large dry in very shallow water where I saw it pushing wakes of water as it fed. The Long Flat The next upstream stretch is the longest area of this section, almost about a third of a mile in length. It is a very featureless stretch of slow to moderately moving water. Aside from a few scattered fish that have found small niches, there is very little holding water and during nonfeeding times, it is virtually devoid of fish. It is water that in the past, I had always considered to be waste water. However, each morning and evening during the "season" trout move up from the pool to feed in this area. Hatches during the day will also bring fish up from the downstream pool. Some fish set up typical feeding stations but because of the slow current speed in many areas, some of the trout will set up a territory and cruise, more like lake dwelling fish. These fish will typically set up a feeding pattern covering an area typically about the size of large truck’s bed. They’ll feed at their upstream limit, then drift back and to the side to feed again and then repeat this pattern until they reach their downstream limit. Then the fish will swim back to its starting position and start the cycle over again. In this apparently, featureless area, most of the feeding stations or territories are difficult or impossible to find without directly observing the fish from the elevated bank because there are no obvious visual cues that suggest a good lie. Even when observing the fish in their stations/territories, it is usually impossible to discern what advantage their chosen area has over another seemingly identical area that never holds a fish. This long stretch of water will produce all sizes of fish. Again I’ve observed that the very few "obvious" spots, generally don’t hold the best fish. Again, I believe that this is because the better fish that use these obvious areas are caught and kept. The Top Run and Rapids Section The broken surface of the water in this area makes direct observation impossible except during very low water levels. Most of the observations I’ve made are based on fish rising, bulging or pushing water while feeding as well as by angling for them. There are a few deeper spots in this area as well as some undercuts that also serve as holding water. Even though this area is fished fairly heavily, it consistently produces better fish. However, once again the best fish tend to be in areas that are either neglected by other anglers ie. VERY shallow sections or are difficult to fish ie undercut willows. All the typical lies in this area hold fish. Each seam, back eddy, pocket, depression, etc. has the potential of a fish. Because of its broken and somewhat deeper water, this is the only area in this whole stretch of river that will hold better fish during "off" times. During feeding periods, more fish will move into this area from the downstream pool. I’ve had some exceptional days on this area, especially during hatches. However, most of the best fish I’ve taken from this area have been in the VERY shallow water in the edges of the rapids at the top of the run. Sometimes they’ll feed in water so shallow that I’ve spotted the fish by the bulges of water they pushed upward while they’re feeding. Shallow areas like these are ignored by virtually all anglers. The other spot in this area where I’ve consistently caught good fish is a small eddy behind a log protruding from the bank. This spot is difficult to fish and requires an unconventional approach to cover correctly. These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Response:

fishninoz!!!!!

admin — Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hello people! I’ve just been doing a bit of flyfishing here in Australia in particularly the Thredbo river(Snowy mountains region) and have found it to be some of the most satisfying fishing I have done in quite some time and not to mention some of the best in the world! I just found this news group and was wondering if thereare any "fly-swaps" happening and could someone please give me some more info on how they work! thanks.

Response:

Ah Anthony, good to see we have another Aussie in our midst, welcome aboard. As to your fly swap question, you just missed the Great Fly Swap of 2001, which was kicked off in Jan. and finished the end of March. I have hosted two of these thus far and plan to submit myself to more abuse of swapmeistering in the future. This will probably turn out to be an annual event, so stay tuned. Additionally, someone else is toying with the idea of hosting one this summer (our summer, not yours :-]) Put simply, the "swapmeister" sets the type of swap, ie: trout type fishing flies, warmwater flies, maybe all streamers, dries or whatever. Folks sign-up, the number of participants determine the number of flies each will tie, all of same pattern of their choice, all tyers submit their flies to the swapmeister, who in turn re-distributes one of each pattern submitted, to all other participants. For example, say there are 30 people signed up for the swap, you submit 30 flies of the same pattern, you get back 30 different flies. Generally speaking, after signup is complete, you would have 30 days to get your flies sent in. This last swap had tyers from US, Canada, England, The Netherlands, and Australia, Steven Welsh being the sole contributor from there. A great time was had by all, I grew a few more gray hairs ), and some gorgeous flies were sent round the world. I hope you stick around to join us. Frank (bent and bowed, but not out) Church Elkhart, IN USA

Response:

G’day Anthony, Thredbo eh? Not too busy on the the Easter break? Frank has pretty much covered the swap administrivia, I heartily recommend participating if you can get signed up … well worth it and not such a chore (tying lots of flies) as you might think. In a bit of a quandary about next year myself, I will be in Tassie when its called

Response:

Flyfishermen's Average Income:

admin — Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

….Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension.

Phhht! Too easy. Get a bigger hammer. :) Wolfgang no charge for this one

Response:

*snip patent info* Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

Response:

*snip patent info* Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

Anything with mineral oil in it is toxic. If you drink mineral oil for instance, you will die, probably quite horribly. Chucking even small amounts of mineral oil into the environment is a very bad thing to do. You may remember fairly recent scandals, especially in Italy, where Olive oil was "stretched" with mineral oil. Many people died horribly, others lost their sight, and had various other nasty things happen to them. Mineral oil is also a contact poison, and may cause dermatitis and other allergic reactions. Some products produced by the ethoxylation of Nonyl Phenol, Glycerine, and various other substances are used among other things as very high grade surgical soap. Eating this will cause severe and uncontrollable vomiting, will damage the stomach, throat, etc, and depending on the other ingredients may also be toxic. Chemical analyses are available for all the substances listed in the patent. Some are toxic, some are not. Quite a few are environmental pollutants ( Long chain, non bio-degradable molecules). Ethoxylated substances change their characteristics and properties quite radically as a result of polymerisation. Phenol for instance is an extremely dangerous and potent poison in its raw state. It would be necessary to read all the chemical and property analyses of the substances concerned in order to determine the toxicity of any mixture based on them. If silica is added to the stuff, this implies that it is finely ground. When dry, ground silica dust is extremely dangerous, and is number one on the list of carcinogens. In a wet mixture it is probably relatively harmless. Not to put to fine a point on it, I would not use the stuff. TL MC

Response:

This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene) C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer". When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene) which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2 which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink.

On a lighter note, one of my favorite "vanity plates" to date was a simple sedan with the license plate C2H5OH (or something close to that, I can’t remember now). It took me a while, but I eventually surmised the owner’s name was Ethel. Joe F.

Response:

That would be just C2H5. — Charlie…

Response:

I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons.

Might be too late now though.

Response:

—- It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory

towards US citizens. I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case". —- our envy of Mike Connor’s reputation and his considerable contribution to the world of flyfishing is obvious. —- Padishar Creel — George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

Response:

George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

Diagnosis, Doctor?

Response:

George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later. Diagnosis, Doctor?

—– Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains"

Response:

Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains"

—— As to an interesting link that may be of some relevance! http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html —— Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." – Wernher von Braun

Response:

assume we are talking about fly fishermen. Think we have two major groups. very rich with their float boat guides and trips to Chili and the rural low income folks who just have always fished because it is a way of life. The folks who amaze me are the governmental workers and the educators who seem to spend half their time fishing, and half their time posting on the internet. Relative to income –some of us thought we were in the higher bracket, but due to recent stock market now find ourselves trying to catch and eat. Indian Joe

Response:

OK. Since you decline to answer. For a number of years I worked for ICI ( Imperial Chemical Industries ) in England. I possess a City and Guilds of London Certificate in chemical plant operation, ( With distinction ). and I was, among other things, chief operator of the ethoxylation facility. I am not a chemist as such, but have a good basic knowledge of chemistry.( OK perhaps a little more than just "basic"), it was essential for my job at the time. I manufactured thousands of tons of the stuff which you are mixing and selling as your own invention. H H I I C=C I I H H Usually written H H I I C=C —– Addition polymerisation. I I H H This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene) C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer". When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene) which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2 which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink. Any chemist, or anybody with even a faint knowledge of chemistry would recognise it immediately. How remarkably strange that the "inventor" of a substance has no idea what is in it. Just to be absolutely certain I researched the US patent office. Here is the extract. —- United States Patent 4,184,889 Gehrke January 22, 1980 —- Fly, line and leader sinker composition Abstract A composition for application to fishing flies, lines and leaders to cause them to sink when placed in water. —- Inventors: Gehrke; George E. (Drawer 1204, Salida, CO 81201) Appl. No.: 909667 Filed: May 25, 1978 Current U.S. Class: 106/267; 43/4; 516/204; 516/DIG1 Intern’l Class: C08L 091/00 Field of Search: 106/266,267,243 —- References Cited [Referenced By] —- U.S. Patent Documents 3526596 Sep., 1970 Kress et al. 252/52. 3872048 Mar., 1975 Brown 252/52. Foreign Patent Documents 995085 Jun., 1965 GB. Primary Examiner: Morris; Theodore Attorney, Agent or Firm: Wymore; Max L. —- Claims —- What is claimed is: 1. A composition of the matter to be applied to a fly, line or leader to cause same to sink below the surface of the water when cast by a fisherman which comprises about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol, about one part by volume of sorbitan monolaurate and about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil blended together. 2. The composition of matter of claim 1 wherein the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenyl has a molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct, of four. 3. The composition of matter of claim 1 including a small amount of cod liver oil and a silica thickener. 4. A method of treating a line or fly to promote sinking when cast in water which comprises applying a composition thereto of about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol and mixing about one part therewith of sorbitan monolaurate to prevent the formation of an immersible gell between the reaction products and the water. —- Description —- One of the problems confronting the avid fly fisherman is the ability of having a fly sink fast after it is cast into the water. One solution has been to use split shot on the leader or by the use of weighted flies; however, the weighted flies do not move in a natural manner and the use of split shot on the leader makes for difficult, inaccurate and sometimes, unsafe casting. While some fly fishermen have used a sinking liquid applied to the leader, this liquid will not stay on the leader and needs to be reapplied practically for each and every cast. The benefits and advantages of the present invention are achieved by the use of a composition of matter formulated to provide ease of application and a composition that will stay on a fly and cause it to sink rapidly for many, many successive casts and wherein the fly sinks down low to where the fish are. The sinker compound works so well and lasts such a very long time that in most instances, there is no need to use split shot or weighted flies. The composition is also an excellent leader sink and makes sinking lines sink even faster. It is a primary object of this invention to provide a fly, line and leader sinker composition that is easy to use, wipes off fingers easily, provides rapid sinking to lines, leaders and flies and is retained thereon for a multitude of successive casts. Another object of the invention is to provide a sinking composition that does not interfere with the natural movement of flies and will permit safe and accurate casting. A still further object of the present invention is to provide a sinking composition many times better than previously available compositions and avoids the use of a streamer or nymph to achieve sink characteristics. Additional benefits and advantages of the present invention become apparent upon the reading of the description of the preferred embodiment. The fly, line and leader sinker composition according to this invention consists of about four parts by volume of Surfonic N-40 surface active agent, about one part by volume of Span 20 and about ten parts by weight of a mineral oil. The composition may also contain a small amount of cod liver oil for scent purposes, a small amount of mineral oil and a small amount of Aerosil 200 as a thickening agent. These ingredients are mixed together to form a highly viscous liquid product. The Surfonic N-40 is manufactured by Jefferson Chemical Company, Inc. and is available from VanWaters & Rogers, division of Univar, 4300 Holly St., Denver, Col. 80216. Surfonic N-40 surface active agent is a non-ionic reaction product of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol. The products are designated by a number following the letter "N". The number is a ten-fold multiple of the molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct. The surface active properties result from the combination of the hydrophilic polyoxyethylene chain and the hydrophobic nonyl phenol. These groups combine to form a molecule which "crosses" the oil-water interface and breaks down the surface tension so as to promote a dispersion. Surfonic N-40 is water-insoluble, oil-soluble. When the Surfonic N-40 alone contacts water, the water acts with the Surfonic N-40 to produce an immiscible gel. A surfactant Span 20 is added to the Surfonic N-40 and when mixed therewith, prevents hydration of the Surfonic N-40 from producing an immiscible gel. Span 20 is a trademark of ICI Americas, Inc., Specialty Chemicals Division, Wilmington, Del. 19897 and is used to identify a non-ionic surfactant of sorbitan monolaurate. The composition may also include about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil and a small amount of a thickness such as silica known by the trade name Aerosil 200 a product of Degussa Corp., Route 46 at Hollister Rd., P.O. Box 2004, Teterboro, N.J. 07608. The resulting composition is a thick amber liquid that can be placed on the figures and rubbed into a fly, line or leader. When a fly, line or leader treated with the composition of this invention is cast into water, the fly, line and/or leader will sink immediately and will avoid any tendency of floating on top of the water. The line, fly and/or leader so treated can be cast and re-cast numerous times without the necessity of renewing the sinker composition. The present invention may be embodied in other specific forms without departing from the spirit or essential characteristics thereof. The presently disclosed embodiment is, therefore, to be considered in all respects as illustrative and not restrictive, the scope of the invention being indicated by the appended claims rather than by the foregoing description, and all changes which come within the meaning and range of equivalency of the claims are, therefore, intended to be embraced therein. * * * * * —- END OF COPY. What this basically means is, you managed to "bamboo"zle and bullshit the US Patent Office into granting you a patent on a soap mixture. With Silica, mineral oil, etc ( see above) added. You have been filling this mixture into little bottles, and selling it to the unsuspecting angling public for years. Do you actually add "scent" ? Most unsporting. Whatever, a drop of any reasonable detergent works better, and has no mineral oil or other crap in it. Any chemist would be laughing himself sick at all this. If you are a chemist, then I am the Archangel Michael. Would you like an independent analysis of Gink as well? No trouble I assure you. MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ? Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. . Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire. Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses.

Response:

H H I I C=C What is it? What can you make of it, and how? I I H H MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory towards US citizens. I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case".

Response:

You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin.

ROFF Backyard Wrestling ! It’s a hoot ! I’m waiting for Chyna to come out and beat both of you over the head with a folding metal chair ! Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Don Thompson writes: Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

Uh, Don, uh, you will confuse him with facts. This is the guy that flew F-100s in Korea and shot down MiG-19s a year before they came out, and a year after the war ended. Besides, by his own words, he tells us he has been tying flies for "four score years". The sucker is over 100 years old, apparently. BTW, I have seen and fished with Mike Connor tied flies. They are superb examples of the art, and he gave them freely without me asking, without me supporting him, without me endorsing anything. Of course he hasn’t been tying for 80 something years like George……. I’ve also cast a rod designed and built by Mike. I own (moment of insanity, I know) a rod built by Gehrke. There is no comparison to the way Mike’s rod casts to the tomato stake that George made. If only I had pulled a Vern at the The Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

I think it’s nothing This is something H H l l H-C=C-H l l H H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body. I forget which part. This is something better. H H l l H-C=C-OH l l H H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – H H I I C=C What is it? What can you make of it, and how? I I H H MC

Response:

I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something

Response:

That ain’t shit, look at this: S S S S S S S S S S

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something H H l l H-C=C-H l l H H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body. I forget which part. This is something better. H H l l H-C=C-OH l l H H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) H H I I C=C What is it? What can you make of it, and how? I I H H MC

Response:

Now that’s a post for the ages, if I ever saw one. Thanks for warmin’ my heart this morn Mike. I am headed out to Wilson Creek in an hour to fish with another fine ROFFian, Wally Boy. Mike you deserve a beer basket for this one. If only I were so damned articulate! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ? Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head? Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport, you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements, which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed. It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well. I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant? If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

Response:

… You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements, which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. …

Priceless. A tad harsh on pigs and alley cats not to mention downright insulting to bricks but a ROFF Hall of Fame post nonetheless. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Where do you get all this crap from ?

Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. Look Connor, you old, wrong opinionated fool. My rates for my Internet Service is $199.00 for a full year. The DEDICATED phone line is $25.95 a month. This is only $322.40 for a full year. Amount of hours I use each month regarding Internet business exceeds 80 hours a month, which equates to about .32 Cents AN HOUR! So what is your problem, moron? Don’t you believe these rates, you bullshit artist? Next, do you want me to send you a video tape of me flying my airplane? How about a grand tour of my chemistry lab? Who gives a shit what YOU think? Incidentally, there is nothing I don’t know about an internal combustion engine. American kids, cut their teeth on them since puberty. Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire. Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses. So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin. I bet if I said belly button, you would write a poem or essay on it for Roff? Okay, "Billy Button!" Connor, I know more about fly tying in my little finger then what you will know in the next fifty years. I will say (for the record) you have a NICE signature as a fly tier, but what does the rest of your concerns amount too? A waste of our valuable time because it proves nothing regarding what you know about us in America. I never, in all my life, saw anyone like you. You jump on every subject, you offer up endless amounts of crap we all already know about and you always seem to be looking for a pat on the head. Okay. I can do that. Nice Connor. Nice Connor. Good boy, Connor. Look? Let me put it this way. Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

Response:

Look? Let me put it this way. Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

Here’s a topic for you George. It should be easy for you since you seem to know so much about the internet. Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension. Paul

Response:

Exceeds $50,000 a year. So what is the problem with paying $300 a year or

less for all the Internet Phone Time one would care to use, again, FOR A FULL YEAR without limits on amount of time. How cheap can you get? — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the saga continues"

Where do you get all this crap from ? Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head? Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport, you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements, which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed. It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well. I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant? If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

Response:

Fly fishing in BC

admin — Wed, 08 Nov 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi Likely to visit BC in Aug 2001. Have read a magazine article on pink salmon fishing, which sounds good. Is it really, or is this just magazine hype? Fishing on Harrison and Vedder rivers. Any advice on fishing, flies etc. much appreciated. Chris

Response:

Haven’t experienced it, but apparently if you look up "crowded" in an illustrated dictionary, there’s a picture of the Vedder. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Likely to visit BC in Aug 2001. Have read a magazine article on pink salmon fishing, which sounds good. Is it really, or is this just magazine hype? Fishing on Harrison and Vedder rivers. Any advice on fishing, flies etc. much appreciated.

Response:

Chris, I lived in Alaska for a few years and Pacific Salmon fishing in BC should be about the same. Try not to target Pink Salmon is you intend to eat what you catch. Pink Salmon, especially after 3 minutes in fresh water, is barely about one step below most cat food. In August, you may be able to get some early Silver/Coho Salmon which fight like a bastard and are excellent eating. Whatever you do, don’t bother eating any Pink Salmon caught in fresh water. Most of the Salmon fishing I did with a fly rod was done with egg pattern flies. This is about the only type of fly to use. Dry flies would be an entire waste of time, and streamers wouldn’t be as effective. A double-egger on a long-shank size 6 hook is good, these are commercially available and I wouldn’t bother tying my own. They are certainly not works of art by any stretch of the imagination and will probably be worn out after half a dozen or so fish. Salmon rivers are usually subjected to a significant amount of fishing pressure, so you might not be all alone when you fish. The general technique was a simple roll cast and drift. Over and over and over. Some lead 12-24" from the ‘fly’, enough to keep the lead bouncing off of the bottom, is generally required to be successful. If possible, fishing in tidal areas on incoming tides is best. Good luck, and enjoy your trip. Tom G Before you buy.

Response:

It’s not hype. Hit the runs just right and you can hook 2 or 3 dozen fish in a few hours. The Harrison alone supports runs exceeding a million fish. The best fishing is from the last week of Sept into the 1st half of Oct. Flies are simple. Size #8 of bright pink or cerise. A sparse wing of bucktail or synthetic. A bright body of tinsel. Use a sink tip or a mono-core line. If you need additional advice email me at: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Likely to visit BC in Aug 2001. Have read a magazine article on pink salmon fishing, which sounds good. Is it really, or is this just magazine hype? Fishing on Harrison and Vedder rivers. Any advice on fishing, flies etc. much appreciated. Chris

Response:

For several years we have gone to Vancouver Island about that time and fished for pinks, and coho. We have taken to using the fly rods for pinks and either trolling or casting flies from the boat in the bays. Last trip 3 of us had over 30 pinks in an hour on the fly rods. Pink and red hootchies in the smallest size worked well for trolling and egg flies when casting. There were so many at times that they fought over the flies. I second the motion on eating them. Don’t if they have been in fresh water at all and they aren’t very good still in salt either. Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Likely to visit BC in Aug 2001. Have read a magazine article on pink salmon fishing, which sounds good. Is it really, or is this just magazine hype? Fishing on Harrison and Vedder rivers. Any advice on fishing, flies etc. much appreciated. Chris Chris, I lived in Alaska for a few years and Pacific Salmon fishing in BC should be about the same. Try not to target Pink Salmon is you intend to eat what you catch. Pink Salmon, especially after 3 minutes in fresh water, is barely about one step below most cat food. In August, you may be able to get some early Silver/Coho Salmon which fight like a bastard and are excellent eating. Whatever you do, don’t bother eating any Pink Salmon caught in fresh water. Most of the Salmon fishing I did with a fly rod was done with egg pattern flies. This is about the only type of fly to use. Dry flies would be an entire waste of time, and streamers wouldn’t be as effective. A double-egger on a long-shank size 6 hook is good, these are commercially available and I wouldn’t bother tying my own. They are certainly not works of art by any stretch of the imagination and will probably be worn out after half a dozen or so fish. Salmon rivers are usually subjected to a significant amount of fishing pressure, so you might not be all alone when you fish. The general technique was a simple roll cast and drift. Over and over and over. Some lead 12-24" from the ‘fly’, enough to keep the lead bouncing off of the bottom, is generally required to be successful. If possible, fishing in tidal areas on incoming tides is best. Good luck, and enjoy your trip. Tom G Before you buy.

Response:

I second the motion on eating them. Don’t if they have been in fresh water at all and they aren’t very good still in salt either. Ted

a saltwater pink salmon is fine to eat. it is milder and less oily than coho. the thing you must do is bleed the fish and get it on ice pronto… and eat it the same day. in the saltwater fisheries i fish, pinks are just by-catch during coho fishing. in august on the west coast of van. island the coho should be running pretty good. while i fish the offshore waters between washington and van. island… i can bet the offshore fishing all down the west coast of the island will be pretty damn good… especially if next season resembles this past coho season. i’m pretty sure there will also be some pink salmon fishing along many of the islands beaches. as for whether pinks are just magazine hype, it depends on who you ask. cb

Response:

Newspaper Article (long)

admin — Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

um…depends on the moment and method of collection… jeff (finally…a reason to be interested in tying)

Oh, I can picture it. Jeffy standing on a street corner somewhere in Greensboro, scissors and little plastic baggies in hand – soliciting contributions. Good effin’ luck Peter

Response:

um…depends on the moment and method of collection… jeff (finally…a reason to be interested in tying) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Waitaminute.. is that a dry fly or a wet fly? "On the Sunday we arrived, I tied an outrageously colourful fly which featured a tuft of my wife’s pubic hair — Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

um…depends on the moment and method of collection…

Pffft. Joe F.

Response:

Waitaminute.. is that a dry fly or a wet fly? "On the Sunday we arrived, I tied an outrageously colourful fly which featured a tuft of my wife’s pubic hair

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

Waitaminute.. is that a dry fly or a wet fly? "On the Sunday we arrived, I tied an outrageously colourful fly which featured a tuft of my wife’s pubic hair

This whole story smells a little fishy to me. :P minkaz – someone had to say it heheh

Response:

While preparing for my move, I found an article from a major London newspaper that some one had sent me about four years ago. Rather than editorialize (ok, I had to make one comment) it, I thought that this crowd would appreciate it. Fly fishermen find wifely charms provide new lure By Michael Hornsby, countryside correspondent. Male anglers are going to indelicate lengths to test the age-old belief on the riverbank that female rivals possess some unfair magic enabling them to hook more and bigger fish. Scientific research (albeit disputed) provides some support for the idea, suggesting that female pheromones, the bodily scents that attract members of the opposite sex, may work equally well in luring salmon and trout. Anglers now claim to have proved the theory by incorporating strands of their wives’ pubic hair in the material used to make fishing flies. Disclosure of this dubious practice has provoked a risqu

USA 1991 Flyfishing Stamps

admin — Fri, 26 May 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I cn get them? Ari

Response:

Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I cn get them?

Um……U.S Post Office?

Response:

I have a first day issue of these stamps. They were released on May 31, 1991 by the US post office. If you live in the US, look in your local phone book for a stamp collector store. They will probably have it. I first day issue will probably cost about $10, a strip about $5.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I cn get them? Ari

Response:

Some stamps came out a while ago featuring flies. Anyone know where I can get them?

I don’t know if they are still available in the Post Office or not — occasionally I see someone offer a booklet of them on eBay at auction. Fleetwood is still selling First Day Covers and Postcards so you can get a description of the stamps by going to their web site and searching for "fishing flies" http://www.unicover.com/unisearch.htm? At the time of issue the Post Office also put out a framed print of a fly fisherman with all five stamps included. I have one around here somewhere but couldn’t find it to provide a better description. I’m not a stamp collector myself but am trying to round up copies of all the first day stuff for the Largemouth Bass stamp. Have a great weekend, — Clyde Drury Black Bass Book Collector http://members.aol.com/BassBks/index.html

Response:

Help with mounts, please, CANON/EOS/FL/FD

admin — Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

How about used Macro lenses…what could I get that would be relatively inexpensive and still provide the ability for an object about 1/4" to fill 35mm ? Thanks, again, very very much. — TimW

anybody that uses canon equipment has *got* to be a fish-killin’, beer drinkin’ reprobate. olympus rules! email me with your detailed needs, buddy, and i will try to find something for you. happy thanksgiving! wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Tim, These will not fit an EOS mount. I beleive you can get and FD/EOS adapter, however you lose all your metering functions – not a good thing eh! If you need bellows there are the Novaflex autobellows for EOS, you may have to hunt around for them second hand, I beleive that they are not cheap. Alternatively I use Hoya close-up filters on a 50mm 1.8 lens, these do a good job, you have to be very careful with your focusing and depth of field. Canon now actually make extension tubes for EOS – however I don’t know how much they cost, so you I can’t comment on them. Regards, AS

Response:

: [deleted] : No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on : their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90. : Is there an adapter ? AutoFocus is unimportant and the TTL metering should : work regardless ? Pasted from my save file: Can any one refer me to some resources on the internet that explain the difference betwen Canon’s FD and EF Lenses? I also would like to find out the compatibility issues of FD lenses with Canon EOS Cameras?

Canon EF lenses are autofocus (usually with manual focus capability); they fit Canon EOS camera bodies. Aperture is 100% electronic and can only be set from the camera body. EF lenses cannot be mounted on a F, A, or T series (FD) camera body; adapters are not available. Canon FD lenses are manual focus only; they fit on the older Canon F, A and T series camera bodies. Aperture is set on the lens by turning a ring or placed on "A" (or "O") for automatic aperture setting. FD lenses cannot be mounted on an EOS (autofocus) camera without an adapter. FD/EF adapters are either optical or macro. Macro adapters will not allow the lens to focus to infinity. Optical adapters made by Canon are useable only on certain expensive telephoto lenses. Optical adapters made by 3rd parties are not noted for quality. When FD lenses are used with any EF adapter, focus will be manual and metering must be performed manually with the lens stopped-down to the taking aperture. Dave Herzstein http://www.kjsl.com/~dave/index.html Bill Jameson

Response:

You can probably achieve fair to good quality if your are careful with tripod mounted camera and close-up lens attachments that are much cheaper than extension tubes and bellows. Check with B&H in NY.

Response:

For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes I can’t find these….what do I ask for ? What is the best I can hope for on this in terms of ‘magnification’ ?

Kenko is a brand name of some extension tubes. There are others. Look in the B&H ads in the mags. Canon has there own set (more expensive.) Now, as far as ‘magnification’ is concerned, I hope you realize that you are delving into an area of photography where simple one line answers on USENET are not going to serve you well. Suggest you start reading some books on macro photography. Magnification is a function of object distance (from lens), the focal length of the lens, and the image distance (from lens to film). Change any one of these three and you will change the magnification. As an experiment, pick up a plain ‘ol magnifying glass, and focus an image (let’s say from your monitor screen) onto the back of your hand. Then walk a few feet away and try again. You’ll notice that the image on your hand is smaller. What you’ve done is change the object distance and observed the difference in size due to it. Magnification is defined as the image distance divided by the object distance. Thus the closer you can get to an object the greater the magnification. Conversely, if you can increase the image distance then you will also get greater magnification. What extension tubes accomplish is the latter. They move the lens away from the film, thus increasing the magnification. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies. Could this still hook up through the shoe and provide TTL ?

Yes, there are ring lights that will work with EOS and still have TTL flash control. How about used Macro lenses…what could I get that would be relatively inexpensive and still provide the ability for an object about 1/4" to fill 35mm ?

Let’s see, a 35mm frame is 1.5” long, the item is 1/4" long, so the magnification required would be (1.5)/(1/4) = 6. You are talking ‘real’ macrophotography, it IS NOT the stuff most people think about when they buy the so called 105mm ‘macro’ lenses! You’d need the bellows unit, and a lens that could work with it. Canon makes them. There are third party items as well. Real macrophotography is very involved, and costs bucks. Canon publishes a "Macro" book; B&H has it listed for $18, I suggest you order it. BTW, Canon just came out with a special macro lens that can go to 5x, almost your requirement! Expect to pay around $1050 for it. The focal length is only 65mm though. -dan

Response:

Thank you. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a Canon Bellows for sale at Ebay. It said FD/FL mount. Will this fit an EOS ? No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90. For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes and/or a reverse mount adapter for your normal lens. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies.

Response:

[deleted] No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90.

Is there an adapter ? AutoFocus is unimportant and the TTL metering should work regardless ? For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes

I can’t find these….what do I ask for ? What is the best I can hope for on this in terms of ‘magnification’ ? and/or a reverse mount adapter for your normal lens.

Again…the photo shop here in Podunk didn’t have this…at least not for the EOS…sources ? I do have magnification filters (+1, +2, +4) and these work so-so…I’ve been putting them all together and just feel really cheesy about it. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies.

Could this still hook up through the shoe and provide TTL ? How about used Macro lenses…what could I get that would be relatively inexpensive and still provide the ability for an object about 1/4" to fill 35mm ? Thanks, again, very very much. — TimW

Response:

I saw a Canon Bellows for sale at Ebay. It said FD/FL mount. Will this fit an EOS ? Does anybody have an extension tube/bellows or macro lens they could part with for a fair price ? Lights ? I’m trying to do some photographs of fishing flies for scanning and posting and am very much an amateur with a desire to do a good job. Thanks very much… — TimW

Response:

I saw a Canon Bellows for sale at Ebay. It said FD/FL mount. Will this fit an EOS ?

No. The mounts are completely different. FL and FD were the mounts used on their pre-autofocus SLR cameras such as the FTb, F-1, and T-90. For inexpensive macro shots with an EOS, get a set of independently-made extension tubes and/or a reverse mount adapter for your normal lens. A ring light would be a good light source for your photos of fishing flies.

Response:

Where can I buy flies on-line?

admin — Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Can anyone provide links to websites that sell quality flies at lower than retail prices? Thanks.

Response:

Try www.discountflyfishing.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone provide links to websites that sell quality flies at lower than retail prices? Thanks.

Response:

Visit www.popularfishingflies.com Here you find one of the best prices on the Net. Popular Fishing Flies – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone provide links to websites that sell quality flies at lower than retail prices? Thanks.

Response:

Can anyone provide links to websites that sell quality flies at lower than retail prices? Thanks.

Hi Clyde, Check out the Wayne Hart’s replies in the "Best price??" thread above, he gives a link to what sounds like a real good place to by flies online. Darin

Response:

You might want to also try the ‘Fly Shops’ category link from http://flyfishing.about.com/ There are a variety of fly shops that sells flies on-line listed there.

Response:

Perfectly Tyed Flies

admin — Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Anyone know websites where good examples of a wide range of Tyed Flies can be found? One with good color pictures would be great to see the nuances of a well-tyed fly.

Response:

To : Keith Harkins Take a look at www.popularfishingflies.com More pictures will be added soon, over 470 different pattern. All high quality flies tied on Mustad quality hooks . One of The Best Prices on the Net. Regards Popular Fishing Flies Robert Lindberg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know websites where good examples of a wide range of Tyed Flies can be found? One with good color pictures would be great to see the nuances of a well-tyed fly.

Response:

Web Bargains

admin — Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Does anyone know where the cheapest mail order prices are on the WWW for flyfishing accesories-flyting supplies, line,rods,etc? Thanks in advance, Alan

Response:

Go to WWW.HOOKHACK.COM, take 20% off prices by saying you saw the item on the web. They’re the best!!!!