Here is an interesting question. Lets say you pass your checkride, but the examiner fails his. Do you have to retake your checkride? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have my IFR checkride scheduled for April 21st… To make it even more exciting my CFII talked me into taking my ride with a DE that is getting his certification for giving instrument checkrides… So not only will he be there but a representative from the FAA will be riding along critiquing him… Has anyone else had any checkride experiences along these lines? Or, can anyone give relay some interesting checkride experiences to take the edge off my nervousness… Really the nerves haven’t hit yet and I figure that the worst thing that will happen is that I’d bust some portion and have to retake it… Holding pattern entries would be my guess… Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Jon Kraus PP-ASEL Student-IA (hopefully not for long)
Cecil, I don’t know that I can completely agree with you, I’ve heard the issue about hold practice, from grey haired CFI’s and regular G.A. pilots,,,, they all seem to say the same thing about holds.
Well, it’s definitely a YMMV thing. Also, it depends when and where you fly. I know what you are saying, but realistically, how many times have have you been asked to hold at a towered airport because traffic load was so prohibitive.
Firstly, that’s just one of many scenarios for being asked/told to hold. To answer your question, I don’t know. Definitely more than zero, but not that often. I’ve been asked to hold flying into Arcata, was given a hold out near Modesto, have held at Tracy for the LVK ILS 25R as well as at MARNA down near MRY. More often though I get a ‘visual hold’ or a ‘vector hold’. There are some approaches that start with a turn in the hold – check out Napa – given direct SGD at 4000′ cleared for the approach – you basically fly the hold. Hilton
Be the plane…. be the plane… be the plane… OK got it… Thanks…. JK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good luck John. Be the plane man, be the plane…
Hi Allen, When I took my multi-engine check ride my boss was getting his DE authority also. The FAA Inspector from Albuquerque, NM was also training two new inspectors. There were five of us in a Piper Navajo on a July day in NM. Talk about "sweating" it out. P.S. We all passed!
Wow that must have given the examiner(s) an opportunity to really test the single engine climb performance! They probably all had white knuckles by the time you landed… I’m now hoping I don’t get an extra person on board the Seminole when it comes to taking the Multi addon, the performance is marginal at best! Best wishes, Richard Thomas CP-ASEL IA Student AMEL
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know that I can completely agree with you, I’ve heard the issue about hold practice, from grey haired CFI’s and regular G.A. pilots,,,, they all seem to say the same thing about holds. I know what you are saying, but realistically, how many times have have you been asked to hold at a towered airport because traffic load was so prohibitive. I’ve only been flying since 2000, but in my personal flying I’ve only ever been asked to hold because of traffic, once!,,, EVER… Yep,,, missed approach holds,,, okay maybe there… but I don’t think most of us are going to be flying anywhere near to minimums and will be able to make the runway just fine on the first try, since most of us are REALLY REALLY good :-. Okay,,, kind of kidding,,,, I know that we are supposed to handle missed approaches as if they are the norm and a landing on the first try as unexpected…. yada yada yada….
I have had scandalously few hours in the system since I passed my checkride, and I’ve had to hold on approach twice. Once approaching Arlington when the controller was trying to ensure that the predecessor, who had actually – gasp – landed, had closed. And once at Paine when the controller had, at a guess, been a little optimistic about sequencing. Surely the first problem illustrates that it’s going to be more likely to happen at an untowered field because by then you’re on advisories and off radar? It doesn’t have to be a busy hub. Remember to check if there’s a specific frequency for closing the plan at an untowered field (e.g. one local airport with ILS and scheduled airline traffic uses the CD frequency, but that’s not clearly stated on the plate). — David Brooks
My soon to be DE who flys for ATA told me he has only been told to hold 4 times in his entire career… Maybe the big boys don’t get holds as much as us little guys… JK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know that I can completely agree with you, I’ve heard the issue about hold practice, from grey haired CFI’s and regular G.A. pilots,,,, they all seem to say the same thing about holds. I know what you are saying, but realistically, how many times have have you been asked to hold at a towered airport because traffic load was so prohibitive. I’ve only been flying since 2000, but in my personal flying I’ve only ever been asked to hold because of traffic, once!,,, EVER… Yep,,, missed approach holds,,, okay maybe there… but I don’t think most of us are going to be flying anywhere near to minimums and will be able to make the runway just fine on the first try, since most of us are REALLY REALLY good :-. Okay,,, kind of kidding,,,, I know that we are supposed to handle missed approaches as if they are the norm and a landing on the first try as unexpected…. yada yada yada….
I don’t know that I can completely agree with you, I’ve heard the issue about hold practice, from grey haired CFI’s and regular G.A. pilots,,,, they all seem to say the same thing about holds. I know what you are saying, but realistically, how many times have have you been asked to hold at a towered airport because traffic load was so prohibitive. I’ve only been flying since 2000, but in my personal flying I’ve only ever been asked to hold because of traffic, once!,,, EVER… Yep,,, missed approach holds,,, okay maybe there… but I don’t think most of us are going to be flying anywhere near to minimums and will be able to make the runway just fine on the first try, since most of us are REALLY REALLY good :-. Okay,,, kind of kidding,,,, I know that we are supposed to handle missed approaches as if they are the norm and a landing on the first try as unexpected…. yada yada yada…. — — =—– Good Flights! Cecil PP-ASEL Student-IASEL Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond! Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." – Antoine de Saint-Exupery – "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet" – Cecil Day Lewis – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – experience. Hilton
Cecil, I have to admit that I am going to have to woodshed a little more on holding patterns. Such an irony, that the very thing we will be tested on in the practical (i.e., holding patterns) represents something that we may never be asked to do in our entire flying career.
I’m sure other IFR pilots, and perhaps your CFI, have told you this – it simply is not true. I have been given numerous holds by ATC here in the Bay Area (where you are). Also, many approaches have a hold as part of their misssed approach. As yourself what happens if you lose comms. I remember hearing NorCal giving a military pilot a hold and ATC had to literally describe to the pilot how to fly it (over PYE if I remember correctly) – I was amazed. Moreover, if you go into the exercise of learning holds with the thought that you’ll never use them, you probably won’t maximize the learning experience. Hilton
Good luck John. Be the plane man, be the plane… — Jack Allison PP-ASEL "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return" - Leonardo Da Vinci
Here is an interesting question. Lets say you pass your checkride, but the examiner fails his. Do you have to retake your checkride?
No.
I have my IFR checkride scheduled for April 21st… To make it even more exciting my CFII talked me into taking my ride with a DE that is getting his certification for giving instrument checkrides… So not only will he be there but a representative from the FAA will be riding along critiquing him… Has anyone else had any checkride experiences along these lines? Or, can anyone give relay some interesting checkride experiences to take the edge off my nervousness… Really the nerves haven’t hit yet and I figure that the worst thing that will happen is that I’d bust some portion and have to retake it… Holding pattern entries would be my guess… Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Jon Kraus PP-ASEL Student-IA (hopefully not for long)
When I took my multi-engine check ride my boss was getting his DE authority also. The FAA Inspector from Albuquerque, NM was also training two new inspectors. There were five of us in a Piper Navajo on a July day in NM. Talk about "sweating" it out. You are going about it with the right attitude. Give it the best you’ve got and you’ll do fine. P.S. We all passed! Allen Smith
Thanks Cecil…. I expect you to finish up before me and give me some pointers. :-) JK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jon Kraus PP-ASEL Student-IA (hopefully not for long) Have a great ride, Jon! As is often said, your instructor wouldn’t release you for the checkride unless you were ready. I look forward to seeing your ’signature’ changing, after April 21. I have to admit that I am going to have to woodshed a little more on holding patterns. Such an irony, that the very thing we will be tested on in the practical (i.e., holding patterns) represents something that we may never be asked to do in our entire flying career. I think I have the pattern entry process, down, though (OnTop has helped me quite a lot with conceptualizing the entries). Though occasionally I’ve done the ‘wrong’ entry, so to speak, during moments of IFR training induced ‘brain-fog’ 
As for the nervousness,,, I don’t know what to tell you other than to do something relaxing the day before (unrelated to flying). If you can,, take the day off and take in a good matinee at the movies (with an extra helping of popcorn and root beer <g) or if you fish, take in a day of fishing. You’ll be fine, come April 21! Look forward to your post-checkride story,,,, really, you’re going to find that you will do just fine!
Jon Kraus PP-ASEL Student-IA (hopefully not for long)
Have a great ride, Jon! As is often said, your instructor wouldn’t release you for the checkride unless you were ready. I look forward to seeing your ’signature’ changing, after April 21. I have to admit that I am going to have to woodshed a little more on holding patterns. Such an irony, that the very thing we will be tested on in the practical (i.e., holding patterns) represents something that we may never be asked to do in our entire flying career. I think I have the pattern entry process, down, though (OnTop has helped me quite a lot with conceptualizing the entries). Though occasionally I’ve done the ‘wrong’ entry, so to speak, during moments of IFR training induced ‘brain-fog’ As for the nervousness,,, I don’t know what to tell you other than to do something relaxing the day before (unrelated to flying). If you can,, take the day off and take in a good matinee at the movies (with an extra helping of popcorn and root beer <g) or if you fish, take in a day of fishing. You’ll be fine, come April 21! Look forward to your post-checkride story,,,, really, you’re going to find that you will do just fine! — — =—– Good Flights! Cecil PP-ASEL Student-IASEL Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond! Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." – Antoine de Saint-Exupery – "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet" – Cecil Day Lewis – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Or, can anyone give relay some interesting checkride experiences to take the edge off my nervousness…
It was November 2001. The WTC wreckage was still strewn across lower Manhattan and the Pentagon construction crews were starting their own herculean rebuilding effort while many citizens were still wary of aircraft sounds in the skies. The Powers That Be had just recently implemented the DC ADIZ and all the local pilots were well aware that the circular contrails above the city were created by aircraft not displaying civilian livery. I scheduled my checkride to fly out of Frederick, MD (KFDK) but that meant I had to get my plane from Leesburg, VA (KJYO) to FDK. At the time of my checkride, all flights in the ADIZ had to be on IFR plans so I had to convince my instructor to tag along so we could fly IFR on his ticket. We get to FDK without incident, meet the DE and she begins reviewing the documentation. Aircraft logs check out OK and she reviews my logbook. "So you flew to Elizabeth City, NC for your long XC?" Yes. "I don’t see an instructor sign-off." Uh-oh. I had gotten an interpretation from AOPA that an instructor was not required for that flight. They were wrong. As the DE put it, "You should have asked the FAA." OK, what are my options? It turned out that her afternoon appointment had cancelled (perhaps due to ADIZ restrictions) and she was willing to give me the checkride in the afternoon *IF* I could get the long XC done that day. I call the office and let them know I need to take the rest of the day off and they graciously agreed. Meanwhile, my instructor (who I begged to check) also was able to get the day off from his day job. We planned and flew a XC from FDK to Hot Springs, VA (KHSP) – a very cool mountain-top airport for those interested – with a secondary stop at Shenandoah (KSHD). While waiting for fuel at SHD, I called and confirmed with the DE that we would be back in FDK that day, but that daylight would be fast receding by the time we got there. She normally doesn’t conduct checkrides at night, but she suggested I get back to FDK as quickly as possible. We kept the squirrels under the cowl of the 172 running as fast as the whip could get them and we arrived back at FDK with about 25 minutes of daylight left. My instructor signed off the logbook and the DE began the oral portion of the checkride. Everything went well and we went to the plane where I performed the pre-flight by flashlight. Luckily, I was still night current and we took off for the practical test. We went through the usual assortment of tasks – steep turns, DME arc, VOR approach, tracking radials, etc. – and ended up shooting the ILS back to FDK. She let me know that I’d "broken out" and could remove the hood and proceeded to inform me that as long as I could land and park the plane, I’d received my instrument rating. Even with that added pressure, I was able to fly a near-perfect glideslope followed by a chirp-chirp…chirp landing that any instructor would be proud of. We went inside where the DE filled out my temporary certificate and I filed my very first IFR plan where I was to be PIC – just to get home to JYO. After all was said and done, I performed the first pre-flight of the day before 8am and tied down after 7pm. In between, I logged 1.1 hours for the trip to/from JYO-FDK, 4.1 hours for the long XC, and another 1.3 for the practical test (6.5 hours of flight time) on top of the oral exam. It was a long day. Let this be a lesson for all: Take your instructor on the long XC flight! Really the nerves haven’t hit yet and I figure that the worst thing that will happen is that I’d bust some portion and have to retake it… Holding pattern entries would be my guess…
Good attitude. Try to stay calm. Remember that your instructor wouldn’t send you up (hopefully) unless he thought you were ready. — John T http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
Or, can anyone give relay some interesting checkride experiences to take the edge off my nervousness…
My instrument checkride was not atypical so I don’t have any over-the-top experiences to offer. I did, however, forget the acronym MEA when the DE pointed to it on the en route chart and asked what the number represented. After he answered his own question, I apologized for the legitimate brain fart. This DE is also a CFII (not mine) and a very easy person with whom to converse, so overall the test was very comfortable for me. However, in regards to the nervousness, I have two suggestions. The first is to really enjoy and interact with the DE during the oral exam. Ask him about his experiences. Take the opportunity to let him/her teach you, as well as the more obvious part about him/her testing you. The more you informally interact with him/her, the more you should realize that he is just a more experienced pilot who wants to be sure you will be a safe pilot, especially with a rating that can be inherently more lethal. Secondly, I found it reassuring that I absolutely did not want to pass the instrument checkride if I was not a safe instrument pilot. I am not on any fast track to some airline job, so slamming out ratings like the passing of mile markers on a super highway was not my goal. Carrying my precious cargo of my wife and two little boys as safely as possible was (and is still) my goal. This may be obvious, but the point of passing is not to pass, but to demonstrate some level of proficiency. With that in mind, I gave the DE a quick speech at the beginning of my oral exam stating that I expected him to withhold the rating if I was not safe in his eyes. By doing this, I accomplished two things. First, it relaxed me because it reminded me of the real purpose of the checkride. Secondly, it demonstrated to the DE what my sincere goal was if I did pass the checkride. Remember that your CFII would not have endorsed your logbook if s/he felt you were not ready. Fly like it is your CFII in the right seat, and you should do very well. Looking forward to reading your post-instrument checkride report. — Peter —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—
I have my IFR checkride scheduled for April 21st… To make it even more exciting my CFII talked me into taking my ride with a DE that is getting his certification for giving instrument checkrides… So not only will he be there but a representative from the FAA will be riding along critiquing him… Has anyone else had any checkride experiences along these lines? Or, can anyone give relay some interesting checkride experiences to take the edge off my nervousness… Really the nerves haven’t hit yet and I figure that the worst thing that will happen is that I’d bust some portion and have to retake it… Holding pattern entries would be my guess… Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Jon Kraus PP-ASEL Student-IA (hopefully not for long)
All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing. I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy. Problem is, I’ve no equipment. I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated. I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow. I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable? Thanks! Scott
Yes it is entirely reasonable Scott. St Croix has the Legend series of fly rods for around $100, I own 3 of them and entirely satisfied with them all. There are several of us on this NG who have "discovered" Cabela’s 3 Forks and Stowaway series flyrods. I can tell you that I have extensively tested all my 3 Forks and Stowaways and they are well worth the money. Probably the best dollar for dollar buy on fly rods anywhere. Since you are new at this flyrodding business, a slower action rod would be the best choice for you, and the Cabela’s rods are slow action rods. You will be fishing for trout on the Rogue (presumably) I would recommend a 5 wt 9 footer. St Croix carries this in One other piece of advice, you can get a good reel these days for around $40 and up, and that’s really all you need, but get a decent quality line. Hope this helps. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing. I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy. Problem is, I’ve no equipment. I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… p rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… b cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated. I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow. I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable? Thanks! Scott
Welcome to flyfishing Scott. If you want a very economical starter set, I would suggest a Pflueger Purist 5 or 6 wt 8 1/2′ rod from Kmart or GI Joe’s for about $45 and a Pflueger Medalist reel (about $30?) or an Okuma Sierra (for $39 from www.Ezyflyfish.com), and a Cortland Fair Play fly line to match the rod. All for well under a $100. The rods are surprisingly good performers compared to anything I’ve tried for under $100. I agree with the idea of renting or borrowing some equipment first, if possible, and also taking some flycasting lessons. Good Luck flyfishing, Pat K * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
John, I got the beer, but where’s my steak? — Opie –Planning for the Past–
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …this is by far the best……spend three c-notes on a half a day’s fishing with a lot of instruction and a person in your frame of mind will save a lot of money in the long run…..buy the guide a beer and a sandwich or steak afterwards and keep you ears open!……john Problem is, I’ve no equipment. I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here. A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment. I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there. Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods. That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html
I’ve been watching this thread pretty close and it has come to my attention that more well thought out posts are now being offered. There are a great many more posts that recommend low cost great for beginners starter kits like the Cabelas line and a lot less of the "what do you want to fish for and where" along with the "get what fits you" and "The better you learn with, the better you’ll be (meaning spend a bundle on a fast long rod.) The last of which is pure BS. A beginner needs a rod that will let him feel loading and allow him time to react, is forgiving of off timing and minor foepas. Is not expensive to buy leaving enough for vet flys etc. is short enough not to tangle in tree limbs. Last but not least is a combination that is still of use even after the graduation up to the faster longer rods as expertise grows. The best advice is to amass all the mail order catalogs you can get. Study them, Then purchase a starter combo that is slow, short , and pleases your eye. By the way the reel is important unless you are fishing for shinners. John Popp
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Problem is, I’ve no equipment. I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here. A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment. I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there. Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods. That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html
The FAQ page can be found on the new ROFF page. The link is bellow. A lot of other good ROFF information is also on the page. Enjoy. :-) BTW, I like the Cabela’s rods for the buck. Check out http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+/CatalogDisplay/displayPOD/C abFALL1998/CabFALL1998AVATAA/IA495C They are in your price range and would be a good starting point. However you should know that after you’re hooked, you might want something that cost a little bit more and that fits your particular fishing style. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders" quote by Edward Abbey All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. (snip) Problem is, I’ve no equipment. I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland for $150 and this Cahill (snip)… I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable?
YES Thanks! Scott
Before you buy.
…this is by far the best……spend three c-notes on a half a day’s fishing with a lot of instruction and a person in your frame of mind will save a lot of money in the long run…..buy the guide a beer and a sandwich or steak afterwards and keep you ears open!……john
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Problem is, I’ve no equipment. I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here. A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment. I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there. Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods. That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html
All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG.
There is a FAQ somewhere, but the best advice on ROFF is "DUCK!" and "Be afraid, be very afraid…" <G. Seriously, a FAQ on this would be kinda useless, as there are many opinions. You know what they say about opinions and assholes? Well, ROFF is ground zero…<G. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing. I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy.
Oregon? There are some here that will be a great help, I’m sure. Problem is, I’ve no equipment. I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65.
JMO, but I wouldn’t buy your first rod via mail order. Trying to buy a rod/reel this way is like saying "I like blue. Please send blue pants." You really need to actually feel, handle, and optimally, cast the rod, especially as a novice. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated. I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow. I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable?
Well, again, JMO, but you did ask: Is that reasonable? Yes. Possible? Yes. Likely? Depends. Confused? Sorry. Seriously, it is related to the advice above in that you need to find a rod you like, and you might like a 20.00 rod or you might like a 2000.00 rod. If your situation is such that money is no object, then buy what you like, period, be it 20.00 or 2000.00. IMO, any synthetic rod over about 200.00 is priced for reasons other than "cost," i.e. seat and handle hardware, finish, guides, name, handwork, warranty, etc., and is a "value to buyer" situation. This is OK, just understand what your money is buying. If you need/want to stay on a budget (or just have a frugal streak), go get a cheapo rod and reel (if you buy a "Starter Set," you will likely need another line) at WalMart/KMart or get something used, like at a pawn shop, in the appropriate size. Why? Simple: you likely don’t know what you like, and having no experience to go on, won’t know cheap from expensive, or even if you like the sport, so why risk any more than needed to check it out? I’ll say JMO, but I’d doubt any could prove me wrong: A 20.00 flyrod can have, and usually does have, more in common with a 1000.00 rod than a novice would think, same for a 15.00 versus a 600.00 reel (learning, practice, freshwater, and, generally, fish under 15ish pounds), but a 15.00 line is not likely even close to 40.00 line. A 1500.00 rig will not be easier or faster to learn on, nor will it necessarily be "better" for a particular person. Buy a good DT (Double Taper) line for practice because when you wear one end out _practicing_(hint, hint), you can reverse it and have a "new line." A WF (Weight Forward) would seem a waste here, but YMMV. Also, JMO: you can teach yourself, but lessons from a pro or experienced flyrodder can be invaluable and will likely speed things up. This is where some "budgeting" might come in: If a shop you like and feel you trust offers free classes for new customers, but charges for non-customers, that might figure into the above "cheapo" advice, and would likely be worth figuring in. HTH? TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Scott
Problem is, I’ve no equipment. I’d like to buy a starter combo,
You know, there is another possibility here. A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment. I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there. Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods. That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[
Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html
Riverrat… ever seen an anglerfish? i figger if the fish use attractants, i oughtta too. it’s the only thing me and the ol anglerfish got goin for us. but, i do like stimulators nearbout as much <G jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and whatabout the area, isn’t it a restricted stream where you can’t use attracters? <vbg RiverRat
If it’s the same Mrs. Hathaway that I remember, she ran for Congress in the 80’s in south central PA. Died a few years later.
That’s the one (Nancy Kulp). — Charlie…
<snipped In the old days long before I was around, they used deer fat to grease leaders. There is an article on the web talking about using Albolene for flys and deer fat for leaders: http://www.fieldandstream.com/looking_back/19980101.html bc.
listen fellas….honest, i don’t know who hacked into my system and wrote that crazy stuff. some drunk sob, i’m sure. …but i did find a fly floating (still at 8:53 am) in a bowl of water and some streaks of bacon grease on my keyboard…. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …y’all snicker, but 5:27 pm and the damn fly is still floating…i’m on the lookout for bears though! … Come and listen to a story bout a man named jeffro barely kept his sanity while thinkin to and fro; then one day, while cookin some breakfast food, he found the bacon grease, when to the fly applied, yielded results that raised a grin far and wide. Crude, but mighty good… better’n Miss Hathaway nude. hawg squeezins, chitlin fixins… fly’s still a-floatin, Ms. Hathaway longing… satisfied… jeffro (ya can call me mr.J – ain’t got no meter, just a puzzled peter) BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie…
it’s tough bein on the leadin edge of new adventures. my rag tag outfitter company, Ursa Urticants R Us, Inc., is always looking for fresh meat, er…talent. you appear to meet all of our criteria. an application is in the mail. jeff PS – Great story…any photos available? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Grizzly Fishing 101 . Having fished for grizzlies, I would like to advise that a bacon greased dry presentation simply does not cut it when attempting to "match the hatch". From personal experience, one is advised to use a much larger stimulator or attractor pattern. About 15lb. larger to be exact. Case Study: On our yearly trip to the Karluk we are routinely "asked" to share prime water with the local grizzly or three. Last year a sow and her two cubs could be expected to make a daily circuit up or down the middle of the river easily taking coho, steelhead, sockeye and dolly from our favorite runs. As mom and the kids could usually be seen coming from some distance, our strategy was to simply begin fishing our way back to camp. Cast, walk during the swing, retrieve quickly and cast again making steady progress toward camp. One eye on the happy family, one eye on your line as it makes the swing. Quickly now. On one occasion, I was first to camp so hurried to my tent to retrieve a camera to record what had become a daily ritual. Several of my compatriots were still fishing but were making increasingly rapid progress to camp as the distance between the two groups of fishers was decreasing . At this point, something few fishermen can imagine occurred. When is the last time you made a cast where you DIDN’T want to catch a fish ? Worse , having made the unimaginable cast, you hook a bright 15lb.coho, who, in her suicidal wisdom heads straight for big mama. Apparently a #4 Egg Sucking Leach was not going to be a "grizzly" enough finish for this lady. Photo 1: Both fishermen look in surprise as the coho decides to go airborne 3 feet in front of larger fisher. Confused look on both faces. One of opportunity, one of desperation. Photo 2: Sensing easy fodder, mama heads for coho while puny male human is captured with rod horizontal, pulling in desperation trying to break off one of his best fish of the day. Wakes are apparent in the water as each make their way to their individual destinations. A touch of the McCallan is shared to honor the first grizzly to the "fly". MS level courses in hooking and landing are being developed. Ph.D. in C&R is unlikely. Tight lines all, — Jeff www.teleport.com/~salmo/jp.htm bears – Ms. Hathaway – bears – Ms. Hathaway…hmmmm…. ok…i’ll redirect my efforts here… well, you guys are always looking for a new adventure…how about – flyfishing for grizzlies…yeah, that’s it. it’ll be like swimming with the white sharks in australia. lacourse, you fry the bacon and i’ll weld us up some steel cages to "fish" from…
and whatabout the area, isn’t it a restricted stream where you can’t use attracters? <vbg RiverRat
Grizzly Fishing 101 . Having fished for grizzlies, I would like to advise that a bacon greased dry presentation simply does not cut it when attempting to "match the hatch". From personal experience, one is advised to use a much larger stimulator or attractor pattern. About 15lb. larger to be exact. Case Study: On our yearly trip to the Karluk we are routinely "asked" to share prime water with the local grizzly or three. Last year a sow and her two cubs could be expected to make a daily circuit up or down the middle of the river easily taking coho, steelhead, sockeye and dolly from our favorite runs. As mom and the kids could usually be seen coming from some distance, our strategy was to simply begin fishing our way back to camp. Cast, walk during the swing, retrieve quickly and cast again making steady progress toward camp. One eye on the happy family, one eye on your line as it makes the swing. Quickly now. On one occasion, I was first to camp so hurried to my tent to retrieve a camera to record what had become a daily ritual. Several of my compatriots were still fishing but were making increasingly rapid progress to camp as the distance between the two groups of fishers was decreasing . At this point, something few fishermen can imagine occurred. When is the last time you made a cast where you DIDN’T want to catch a fish ? Worse , having made the unimaginable cast, you hook a bright 15lb.coho, who, in her suicidal wisdom heads straight for big mama. Apparently a #4 Egg Sucking Leach was not going to be a "grizzly" enough finish for this lady. Photo 1: Both fishermen look in surprise as the coho decides to go airborne 3 feet in front of larger fisher. Confused look on both faces. One of opportunity, one of desperation. Photo 2: Sensing easy fodder, mama heads for coho while puny male human is captured with rod horizontal, pulling in desperation trying to break off one of his best fish of the day. Wakes are apparent in the water as each make their way to their individual destinations. A touch of the McCallan is shared to honor the first grizzly to the "fly". MS level courses in hooking and landing are being developed. Ph.D. in C&R is unlikely. Tight lines all, — Jeff www.teleport.com/~salmo/jp.htm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bears – Ms. Hathaway – bears – Ms. Hathaway…hmmmm…. ok…i’ll redirect my efforts here… well, you guys are always looking for a new adventure…how about – flyfishing for grizzlies…yeah, that’s it. it’ll be like swimming with the white sharks in australia. lacourse, you fry the bacon and i’ll weld us up some steel cages to "fish" from…
BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know.
She was Mr. Drysdale’s sado-masochistic lover/secretary who was always trying to get Jethro to show her his (fly) rod. Or something like that. Shoot your television, Bob Scott
Ya, save her for Louie. She’s already past changing. Her and LaPlac would make a fine looking couple at the places IJ sends him to<g. — Charlie…
Be great fun watching them decide who would lead. :) Peter
…y’all snicker, but 5:27 pm and the damn fly is still floating…i’m on the lookout for bears though! …
<Interesting lyric snipped Damn Jeff! Don’t know what you’re smoking down there, but winter’s coming and we yankees could sure use some. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter33"
floating…i’m on the lookout for bears though! … Come and listen to a story bout a man named jeffro barely kept his sanity while thinkin to and fro;
Well Peter it sounds like he made it to the likker cabinet. Big Dale
BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie… Ahhh. I remember – but can she cook? Seems to me she was only good at wearing bad tweed suits and lusting.
If it’s the same Mrs. Hathaway that I remember, she ran for Congress in the 80’s in south central PA. Died a few years later. Mark faulkner
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie… Ahhh. I remember – but can she cook? Seems to me she was only good at wearing bad tweed suits and lusting. If it’s the same Mrs. Hathaway that I remember, she ran for Congress in the 80’s in south central PA. Died a few years later. Mark faulkner
aw, hell no, markey! they’re talking about the "jane hathaway" from "beverly hillbillies", *not* the "ms. hathaway" you taught to do the "dirty macarena" in the holiday inn just south of carlisle… wayno, just keepin the record straight – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
…while cooking breakfast for rachel this morning, i also steamed some of the hackles on several of my well-used and misshapen flies. the parallel universe i was drifting through at the time caused me to think about bacon fat grease as a floatant. once cool, it becomes a waxy substance like gink, aquel, etc. It could be easily strained and poured into an applicator before it hardens up, and with a squeeze it will ooze out of a gink bottle in its cool state. It’s hard as hell to clean out of the pan with soap and water, so it adheres pretty good…whaddayathink, would a dab or two work as a floatant on a dry fly? If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh? jeff (always thunking…)
No disrespect jeff, but what morning herb produced this Parallel Universe? The stuff would turn to rock as soon as it hit the water. More than just a few bears may want to have a parallel experence with you as well Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com
..whaddayathink, would a dab or two work as a floatant on a dry fly? If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh?
I think Jethro tried that once on the Beverly Hillbillies, but it just got Miss Hathaway excited if I recall correctly<g. — Charlie…
bears – Ms. Hathaway – bears – Ms. Hathaway…hmmmm…. ok…i’ll redirect my efforts here… well, you guys are always looking for a new adventure…how about – flyfishing for grizzlies…yeah, that’s it. it’ll be like swimming with the white sharks in australia. lacourse, you fry the bacon and i’ll weld us up some steel cages to "fish" from… ok, carrying this bit of foolishness to it’s illogical extreme, i’ve now tested the bacon grease thing in 64 degree water…it seems to float the fly, sort of…oops, it’s goin under…no, wait, it’s in the meniscus of the glass bowl, exuding a slick…ok, time to change parallels here…do ya think it might be xink-like? you know, catch those early mornin breakfast trout? … for those more into the Ms. Hathaway thing, i’m sure the bacon gease could serve the same blissful purpose as albolene in coating those… um, i’ll let you know how that one turns out….oh, rachel, dear… jeff (dropped on his head as a child -) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …while cooking breakfast for rachel this morning, i also steamed some of the hackles on several of my well-used and misshapen flies. the parallel universe i was drifting through at the time caused me to think about bacon fat grease as a floatant. once cool, it becomes a waxy substance like gink, aquel, etc. It could be easily strained and poured into an applicator before it hardens up, and with a squeeze it will ooze out of a gink bottle in its cool state. It’s hard as hell to clean out of the pan with soap and water, so it adheres pretty good…whaddayathink, would a dab or two work as a floatant on a dry fly? If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh? jeff (always thunking…) No disrespect jeff, but what morning herb produced this Parallel Universe? The stuff would turn to rock as soon as it hit the water. More than just a few bears may want to have a parallel experence with you as well Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com
[a bunch of floating blithering and dithering snipped] jeff (dropped on his head as a child -)
Jeffy, follow this carefully. Go to the likker cabinet. Pick out the strongest thing you got. Drink it all. Lie down until you feel better. Then go to the nearest Orvis store and buy the floatant gunk. Leave the bears to Tripper. He’s an expert when it comes to the mating rituals of oversized and dangerous wildlife. As for Ms. Hathaway, leave her for Louie. I hear he’s not too fussy about such things. I’ll take the bacon and eggs. (eggs sunnyside up and bacon well done but not crispy, don’t forget the toast and coffee) And keep your flies outa my bacon. Peter (who knows his priorities)
BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. Peter
BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know.
She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie…
BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie…
Ahhh. I remember – but can she cook? Seems to me she was only good at wearing bad tweed suits and lusting. Ya, save her for Louie. She’s already past changing. Peter Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html
…y’all snicker, but 5:27 pm and the damn fly is still floating…i’m on the lookout for bears though! … Come and listen to a story bout a man named jeffro barely kept his sanity while thinkin to and fro; then one day, while cookin some breakfast food, he found the bacon grease, when to the fly applied, yielded results that raised a grin far and wide. Crude, but mighty good… better’n Miss Hathaway nude. hawg squeezins, chitlin fixins… fly’s still a-floatin, Ms. Hathaway longing… satisfied… jeffro (ya can call me mr.J – ain’t got no meter, just a puzzled peter) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW, who is Ms. Hathaway and how did she get dragged into this? Inquiring minds want to know. She was a character on the TV sitcom "The Beverly Hillbillies", and I confess I was the one who brought her up in relation to ‘Jethro’ Miller<g. — Charlie…
fly’s still a-floatin, Ms. Hathaway longing… satisfied… jeffro (ya can call me mr.J – ain’t got no meter, just a puzzled peter)
If you’ve been a messin’ with Ms. Hathaway, no wonder your peter’s puzzled. "Boss? Why are you abusin’ me so?" Peter
Ya, save her for Louie. She’s already past changing.
Her and LaPlac would make a fine looking couple at the places IJ sends him to<g. — Charlie…
…while cooking breakfast for rachel this morning, i also steamed some of the hackles on several of my well-used and misshapen flies. the parallel universe i was drifting through at the time caused me to think about bacon fat grease as a floatant. once cool, it becomes a waxy substance like gink, aquel, etc. It could be easily strained and poured into an applicator before it hardens up, and with a squeeze it will ooze out of a gink bottle in its cool state. It’s hard as hell to clean out of the pan with soap and water, so it adheres pretty good…whaddayathink, would a dab or two work as a floatant on a dry fly? If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh? jeff (always thunking…)
Jeff I don’t know about the flies, but the bears will love it. Ernie
<snip If so, perhaps lacourse’s bacon fryin will be good for something in May
besides causing involuntary streamside bowel movements, eh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -jeff (always thunking…)
Oh please Oh please they beseech, that man we just have to impeach, they ought to go fishing, instead of just wishing, besides, they
But one perennial that I would never be without would have to be hostas
can someone give some info or a website that gives info on the care of hostas Elaine in Dallas
But one perennial that I would never be without would have to be hostas can someone give some info or a website that gives info on the care of hostas Elaine in Dallas
Not much to it. Plant em in the shade, water em, occasionally toss some fertilizer under em, and kill snails. About the only thing that can kill them is total lack of water (or maybe too much as in a bog), everything else just makes them look bad. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that
I got a used rod from my dad who picked it up at a house auction and want to change from spin casting to fly fishing this spring. The rod is a 3pc bamboo ~9′ and was made by Union Hardware Co, Torrington, Conn. I can’t find any markings on it that would indicate the correct weight line, but am assuming 6-7 weight. I usually fish in small spring creeks & from a canoe paddling small lakes casting towards shore. Can i get away with 1 line? I was thinking of a slow sinking tip line. Can i use this rod for the type of fishing i do or should i purchase a 4- 5wt rod? mark
If you are only buying one line, get a floater. You can always use a neutral or slow sink leader but you can’t make a sinking line float properly. I don’t know much about bamboo rods but would have thought you would be better off with a carbon 5wt, probably 8 – 9 feet in length. — Regards Peter Kay (Remove "nospam" to email)
:I got a used rod from my dad who picked it up at a house auction and :want to change from spin casting to fly fishing this spring. : :The rod is a 3pc bamboo ~9′ and was made by Union Hardware Co, :Torrington, Conn. I can’t find any markings on it that would indicate the :correct weight line, but am assuming 6-7 weight. : :I usually fish in small spring creeks & from a canoe paddling small :lakes casting towards shore. Can i get away with 1 line? I was thinking 
f a slow sinking tip line. : :Can i use this rod for the type of fishing i do or should i purchase a 4- :5wt rod? : : mark
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got a used rod from my dad who picked it up at a house auction and want to change from spin casting to fly fishing this spring. The rod is a 3pc bamboo ~9′ and was made by Union Hardware Co, Torrington, Conn. I can’t find any markings on it that would indicate the correct weight line, but am assuming 6-7 weight. I usually fish in small spring creeks & from a canoe paddling small lakes casting towards shore. Can i get away with 1 line? I was thinking of a slow sinking tip line. Can i use this rod for the type of fishing i do or should i purchase a 4- 5wt rod? mark
Mark, First, since you indicated that you need line, anyway, take your rod in to a good fly fishing shop and ask what weight line would be appropriate. (You might save a few bucks at a K-Mart, but you’re going to need some good advice, which you aren’t likely to find there, and nothing is tackier than buying goods from a discount store and then going to a fly shop for advice on how to use it.) Also, you can find out how much the rod you have is worth; some older bamboo rods are too valuable for a beginner to be fishing with. Second, no, if I had only one line, it wouldn’t be a sinking tip. For a novice, a double tapered floating line is almost mandatory. You can fish nymphs and such with a floating, but you can’t fish a dry fly with a sinking tip, and I can’t even imagine fly fishing without fishing drys (about 90% of the fun, to me). Third, since you’re a novice, I’d try out the rod before decideing on whether or not the rod you have is perfectly suited for your type of fishing. You can always ‘fine tune’ later, and will appreciate new and better equipment even more. (I can still remember my first graphite after years of bamboo and fiberglass…ahhhhhhh!) Good luck, Max http://www.inetarena.com/~mwi
Mark, I would agree with Peter with the floating line, but I would really say that perhaps you are approaching this problem a little backwards. First determine what type of fish you are fishing for and under what are the typical conditions then select the correct equipment. What type of fish are you going to be fishing for? Are you going to typically stick to the lake? What type of insects are available on the lake or stream? Do you want to fish streamers, dries or wets? I would say that once you can answer these types of questions, then the answer of the flyline becomes quite obvious. Hope that wasn’t a long roundabout answer to your question. Dana – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got a used rod from my dad who picked it up at a house auction and want to change from spin casting to fly fishing this spring. The rod is a 3pc bamboo ~9′ and was made by Union Hardware Co, Torrington, Conn. I can’t find any markings on it that would indicate the correct weight line, but am assuming 6-7 weight. I usually fish in small spring creeks & from a canoe paddling small lakes casting towards shore. Can i get away with 1 line? I was thinking of a slow sinking tip line. Can i use this rod for the type of fishing i do or should i purchase a 4- 5wt rod? mark
iI would like to thank all who responded to my request for books on "fly patterns". I now have a realy good list to choose from. I’m sure it will keep me busy all winter. Thanks Again
Hi Gerald Happy to help, that’s what this newsgroup is all about. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html
: for the amount used the sg doesn’t count. Isn’t it more fun fishing than : being scientific? Keep em dry, Ummm…. not always. But then I’m a geek. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem
Question for Mr "Gink": Is there any reason (physical, not political) that I shouldn’t use Gink as a fly-line dressing? Will it corode the line? — -Wayne Trzyna
Gink keeps it up! I’ll have to remember that next time I pay a visit to Cottonwood ranch.
Aha! We’ve discovered the secret ingrediant: KY Jelly. — -Wayne Trzyna
: : GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. : : FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water : averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific : gravity of Albolene? : — : Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler : TEL 1-301-322-8373; FAX 1-301-322-4329 : 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA Gary, Hi, I don’t think it matters. It works well. A drawback, if any, may be the low liquification temperature. I noticed yesterday that at body temperature, 98.6 deg F, it was a thin film not solid as it comes from the container. I guess the other floatants (like Al Beatty has) have higher melting/liquification temperatures. One thing for sure is that water doesn’t like it, which is the property that makes flies float. Keep em dry, Bob — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca
GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. But the question everyone wants answered is, What’s the chemical difference between Gink and albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373; FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA
As different as a model A Ford is to a Jet Fighter. If I wanted to be spilling out my guts regarding what my life’s work is all about I’d done it years ago but the secret formulations of GINK is patented and has nothing to do with whatever else you believe works. What GINK is: Its a dry fly dressing invented by a fly fishermen for fly fishermen. Remember, all other dry fly dressings and/or sinks are PLAGARIZED products from other industrial sources which are then forced onto the fishing establishment as working enities. ALL MY PRODUCTS are original inventions Mr. Soucie. If you want to use silicone, soaps, bear or goose grease dissolved with carbontetroclorhide and ruin your heart, or if you want to use perfumed cosmetics which you’re proposing and call it romancing the fly . . . be our guest. The differences are very great. Gink is gink and it is MUCH, much better than old, obsolete albolene. Albo absorbs tremendous amouts of water, its viscosity is wrong and its used to remove makeup from actor’s faces (primarily) What albo is not, it is not a dry fly dressing. At least not anywhere as great as GEHRKE’S GINK is. And frankly Mr Soucie, nothing else in the world is either. 
Gink keeps it up. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink
I plopped my trusty hydrometer into my tub of Albolene and it just layed there. Any chemists out there that can tell me what I’m doing wrong? John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS
I soak my dries in a "permanent" treatment right after I tie them. Stuff is called Fly Dry or something like that; probably Scotchgard. Works pretty well. If they start to sink, a few false casts solve the problem. If they get slimed, dry floatant gets ‘em up again. Not as permanent as the manufacturer suggests, but still a lot easier than dealing with floatant paste on a cold morning. Haven’t used Gink. Probably a fine product, but I’m wary of liquid floatants, given their tendency to leak in the vest pocket. Charlie Quinton
Gink keeps it up! Aha! We’ve discovered the secret ingrediant: KY Jelly. — -Wayne Trzyna
No, no, Wayne. You’re mistaken. K-Y jelly gets it IN! Keeping it in and UP is another question. Not sure about Gink in that regard, but I’ve found that a couple of belts of sour mash pretty makes it hard (difficult?) to get down. Stan
: : I read this to say that Gink is roughly 3/4’s the "density" of : water. Which make it lighter than water, therefore it floats. (FYI) : : Yes, if Gink has a specific gravity of 0.78 it ought to float flies : very well. It seems strange, though, that Mr. Gink doesn’t know how his : conconcoction’s specific gravity compares to that of water. : I don’t even know what Albolene is, but the name keeps popping up on : the thread. A simple, "Gink is not Albolene, Albolene is not Gink," This is good stuff. What if these products _are_ heaver than water, but their properties are such that they easily coat the hackel and hair fibers such the total weight is only increased a miniscual amount. The fact that good H2O doesnt like this material causes them to float really well (and for some time). Some guides I’ve talked to use Albolene and they say it works well. Heck, for the amount used the sg doesn’t count. Isn’t it more fun fishing than being scientific? Keep em dry, Bob — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca
GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific gravity of Albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373; FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA
I read this to say that Gink is roughly 3/4’s the "density" of water. Which make it lighter than water, therefore it floats. (FYI) Harry
I read this to say that Gink is roughly 3/4’s the "density" of water. Which make it lighter than water, therefore it floats. (FYI)
Yes, if Gink has a specific gravity of 0.78 it ought to float flies very well. It seems strange, though, that Mr. Gink doesn’t know how his conconcoction’s specific gravity compares to that of water. I don’t even know what Albolene is, but the name keeps popping up on the thread. A simple, "Gink is not Albolene, Albolene is not Gink," would have sufficed, but instead Mr. Gink went into one of his patented rages. He’s certainly a poor spokesman for his product. — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373; FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA
Yes, if Gink has a specific gravity of 0.78 it ought to float flies very well. It seems strange, though, that Mr. Gink doesn’t know how his conconcoction’s specific gravity compares to that of water.
I think he said Gink has a specific gravity of .78 _compared_ to water (which is 1.00 as you point out). The english language is often imprecise. FWIW. Charlie…
: : : : Gink keeps it up. : : George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Ok Dr George, but don’t flash it. Just let it float. Keep em dry, Bob (tryin to beat T-Bone to the floatant) — lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca
snip BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water?
Rick, At this point I think we’d be doing more worrying than fishing. Ross Wilson
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. But the question everyone wants answered is, What’s the chemical difference between Gink and albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373; FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA As different as a model A Ford is to a Jet Fighter. If I wanted to be spilling out my guts regarding what my life’s work is all about I’d done it years ago but the secret formulations of GINK is patented and has nothing to do with whatever else you believe works. What GINK is: Its a dry fly dressing invented by a fly fishermen for fly fishermen. Remember, all other dry fly dressings and/or sinks are PLAGARIZED products from other industrial sources which are then forced onto the fishing establishment as working enities. ALL MY PRODUCTS are original inventions Mr. Soucie. If you want to use silicone, soaps, bear or goose grease dissolved with carbontetroclorhide and ruin your heart, or if you want to use perfumed cosmetics which you’re proposing and call it romancing the fly . . . be our guest. The differences are very great. Gink is gink and it is MUCH, much better than old, obsolete albolene. Albo absorbs tremendous amouts of water, its viscosity is wrong and its used to remove makeup from actor’s faces (primarily) What albo is not, it is not a dry fly dressing. At least not anywhere as great as GEHRKE’S GINK is. And frankly Mr Soucie, nothing else in the world is either. Gink keeps it up. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink
That’s atellin’ ‘em George. Les
GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.
FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific gravity of albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373; FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA
GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.
FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. Now the question everyone is, What’s the specific gravity of Albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373; FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA
GINK…has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water.
FYI, pure fresh water has a specific gravity of 1.00, and sea water averages 1.025. But the question everyone wants answered is, What’s the chemical difference between Gink and albolene? — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373; FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA
world’s first COMMERCIAL dry fly dressing to float a fly for more than one float. In fact, it does it better even today than any other dressing in the world and will usually float a dry fly until the owner changes it or loses it . . . more often than not. The main point is, it works! It works better than any other competitor’s efforts i the entire world.
Does anyone have the article someone posted awhile back which compared several different brands of floatants? And that . . . in itself, is another story I might tell one day. How it all came about.
I, for one, would be interested in hearing it. For one thing, I’d like to know why it’s called "Gink". Gink keeps it up!
I’ll have to remember that next time I pay a visit to Cottonwood ranch. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY
It’s probably the same stuff as any other fly floatant. I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong, but I believe the reason floatant works is becasue it keeps the water off the fly… and anything that does that will gum up a gill, too. BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water?
Maybe environmental authorities would if they actually had people that fished. Coast Guard regulations require the reporting of a "visible sheen" on the water. Some states’ environmental release reporting statutes and regulations prohibit, or require reporting of, any release, no matter what the quantity, of a listed hazardous substance to the environment. Remember that post about not seeing game wardens? Wait until the Coast Guard hands you a citation for the sheen coming from that floating fly on the end of your line and the state wants $10,000 a day for the failure to report the same "release". Hope this doesn’t start Timbo on a new catch and "release" post fest! Musconet
: the fly for long on the stream. I’ve tried adding a little : silicon high-vacuum grease. This stuff is less soluble, but much : tackier. I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort : hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand. Overall rating: : 7 out of 10. : Isn’t this stuff, like, toxic to fish ? It’s probably the same stuff as any other fly floatant. I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong, but I believe the reason floatant works is becasue it keeps the water off the fly… and anything that does that will gum up a gill, too. BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : the fly for long on the stream. I’ve tried adding a little : silicon high-vacuum grease. This stuff is less soluble, but much : tackier. I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort : hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand. Overall rating: : 7 out of 10. : Isn’t this stuff, like, toxic to fish ? It’s probably the same stuff as any other fly floatant. I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong, but I believe the reason floatant works is becasue it keeps the water off the fly… and anything that does that will gum up a gill, too. BTW, I raised Tim’s issue over a year ago without a nibble. How come we don’t worry about all the floatant in the water? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem
SILICONE based dressings (plagarized products from another industrial source) absorb 10% of their weight in water. (Also they are very dirt gathering prone). This is why you do not want to use silicone based dry fly dressings. Hope this helps answer your problems about silicone dressings. Lastly, hollow deer haired flies such as hoppers, etc. a trimmed with sissors and the hollowed hair will suck in water if you do not dress the head liberally with Gink. Why GINK is better in this area is because it has a specific gravity of .78 the density of water. Which means, it floats all by itself. Rick Fletcher is absolutely correct in that GINK keeps water from the tying material, making them basically impervious to the entry of water while adding a high degree of floatability. This is only one reason why GINK is the World’s Number One Dry Fly dressing. That aside, from ginking flies to tying them, Gehrke’s Gink is the world’s first COMMERCIAL dry fly dressing to float a fly for more than one float. In fact, it does it better even today than any other dressing in the world and will usually float a dry fly until the owner changes it or loses it . . . more often than not. The main point is, it works! It works better than any other competitor’s efforts i the entire world. And that . . . in itself, is another story I might tell one day. How it all came about. Gink keeps it up! George/Mr. Gink I would never break the romance of two lovers. The fly that is dressed well who are in need of keeping a date with a fish. No more. No less. gg/;)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Dear All: : I have access to some silicon oil. Do you think I should try this on my : flies? It is reagent grade stuff. I’m not sure what I should cut it : with, as it is far too concentrated to use on an individual fly. It : should work though. Gink is essentially the same stuff but in a low : melting base. : JB I’ve tried using silicon oil on my flies. I cut the oil about 1:10 with hexanes and dipped the flies in. Unfortunately, I’ve found that the finished products is too thin and doesn’t protect the fly for long on the stream. I’ve tried adding a little silicon high-vacuum grease. This stuff is less soluble, but much tackier. I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand. Overall rating: 7 out of 10.
Isn’t this stuff, like, toxic to fish ? TimW
Dear All: I have access to some silicon oil. Do you think I should try this on my flies? It is reagent grade stuff. I’m not sure what I should cut it with, as it is far too concentrated to use on an individual fly. It should work though. Gink is essentially the same stuff but in a low melting base. JB
: Dear All: : I have access to some silicon oil. Do you think I should try this on my : flies? It is reagent grade stuff. I’m not sure what I should cut it : with, as it is far too concentrated to use on an individual fly. It : should work though. Gink is essentially the same stuff but in a low : melting base. : JB I’ve tried using silicon oil on my flies. I cut the oil about 1:10 with hexanes and dipped the flies in. Unfortunately, I’ve found that the finished products is too thin and doesn’t protect the fly for long on the stream. I’ve tried adding a little silicon high-vacuum grease. This stuff is less soluble, but much tackier. I find this a good way of floatin flies such as Letort hoppers which are hard to gink properly by hand. Overall rating: 7 out of 10. Pete
I have a difficult decision to make, though it is one I wish I had to make more often… Two friends of mine are visiting me in Colorado in mid-September and we’re planning on four days of fishing. All of us have been angling for many years, and on this trip we don’t want to shit around. We’ve been throwing around ideas on a destination and have narrowed it down to either the San Juan in NM or the Green in UT. The final decision has been left to me and I need help from anglers who know these waters. Which one is preferable in September? Any advice on guides, camping/lodging, patterns, etc would be greatly appreciated. E-mail is fine; please include any phone numbers you might have. Thanks in advance, Spinoleo
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a difficult decision to make, though it is one I wish I had to make more often… Two friends of mine are visiting me in Colorado in mid-September and we’re planning on four days of fishing. All of us have been angling for many years, and on this trip we don’t want to shit around. We’ve been throwing around ideas on a destination and have narrowed it down to either the San Juan in NM or the Green in UT. The final decision has been left to me and I need help from anglers who know these waters. Which one is preferable in September? Any advice on guides, camping/lodging, patterns, etc would be greatly appreciated. E-mail is fine; please include any phone numbers you might have. Thanks in advance, Spinoleo
I’ve just returned from a week on the San Juan. Absolutely incredible. Don’t miss a chance to fish here. There is abundant water and HUGE fish. Although some spots do attract a large number of fisherman, I was able to find quiet waters without too much difficulty. Be prepared to fish extremely small flies, both emerger and dry, to extremely large fish. One day I had to go down to a #26 midge. Baetis were a bit slow by San Juan standards, but still abundant. PMD were present, but seemed to be ignored by fish for the most part. As for guides, the people at Santa Fe Flyfishing School ((505) 986-3913) are great. I believe they only offer wading trips, which in my mind is a great way to see and fish the San Juan. Accomodations can be had at any number of places on or close to the river. My preference is the Enchanted Hideaway ((505) 632-2634). Condo style lodging, convenient, and not cramped. Good luck. David
The Green is an exceptional fishery. Sometimes tiny flies are the norm, but in Sept. hoppers and crickets kill them in the backwater eddies. And the crowds start to thin out after Labor Day. And though I have never fished the San Juan, I heard that access without a boat is limited as opposed to the Green where you can walk and wade the entire river with no problem. And there is ample camping space and a great store in Dutch John that has all the information and flies you could ever need. The Green is my favorite river, bar none.
And though I have never fished the San Juan, I heard that access without a boat is limited as opposed to the Green where you can walk and
The water just below the damn on the San Juan is easy access. At least the first few miles. Not necessarily easy to wade which depends on the water flow.
Folks, I need your help. I downloaded a new version of GNN tonite (31a – avoid it at all costs) and it blew away my hotlist with all my flyfishing links, Would you all please wpost your favorite liwweb pages with the correct http adresses? I used to have all of the "classics", but they are gone for now. I’ll try to build them back by doing some serious surfing, but any help you can provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Kevin
Folks, I need your help. I downloaded a new version of GNN tonite (31a – avoid it at all costs) and it blew away my hotlist with all my flyfishing links, Would you all please wpost your favorite liwweb pages with the correct http adresses? I used to have all of the "classics", but they are gone for now. I’ll try to build them back by doing some serious surfing, but any help you can provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Kevin
Kevin, Perhaps you’ve tried this already but if not, it’ll give more locations than you probably want: <http://www.lycos.com/ (don’t put in these things < ) I ran a test on it just searching for "fly fish" and got more that 50 pages with the majority being specificly fly fishing. (it said it had "10k documents" if I wanted to look at them !!!) Regards, ~~ The Eddie Bauer catalog offers pitch-saturated kindling wood "felled by lightning or other natural causes." WHAT!