Bloody horrible tasting,
I’m, surprised……I was told they taste like bald eagle….. and they cost a fortune.. about $5000 if you get caught with one.
….well, about the same price per pound, anyway. Of course the trick is not to get caught with one. hmmm maybe I could start a new franchise business KFK
Too late. Already been done…..they just changed the name. 
Wolfgang well, ya got yer kaka, and then ya got yer caca……and it don’t taste like chicken to me.
Wolfgang well, ya got yer kaka, and then ya got yer caca……and it don’t taste like chicken to me.
It may be art, though. From the London Telegraph: —— The Tate values excrement more highly than gold By Catherine Milner, Arts Correspondent (Filed: 30/06/2002) Critics of modern art will at least applaud the irony. The Tate Gallery has paid
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting. In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis. In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments. Body length is 3/4". Three tails almost twice as long. Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. —
Thanks Warren, the two insects do sound very similar indeed: very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch? Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) . I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?) Regards, Mike.
Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?
Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting. In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis. In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments. Body length is 3/4". Three tails almost twice as long. Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html
Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.
If it’s not one damn thing, it’s something else. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
didn’t stick much in the valley. The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.
Our snowpack is a whopping 293% and the rivers are running at normal levels (16,300 cfs) on the lower Clark Fork. Heading up to Rock Creek with the Fam on Thursday. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com
Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks.
Will do. I still have your fly from one of the swaps set aside as my example pattern. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this.
Same here. Not sure how much rain we received total, but it rained most of the weekend and most of yesterday too. We had snow at times, but it didn’t stick much in the valley. The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html
Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out. In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too. That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though….. I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more. Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too.
Thanks Warren, the two insects do sound very similar indeed: very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch? Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) . I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?)
I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out. In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too. That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though….. I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more. Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Gary, I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect. I assume that you took the photos? Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael. It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know.
Thanks Gary, yes indeed I would quite like to see the pikkies, so please email them to me. From what you say it seems like the english Mayfly is similar to the american Green Drake. Regards, Michael.
Willi, I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?
Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help! Best regards, Gary
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously. After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.
The Western Green Drake is Drunella grandis or Drunella doddsi. The duns are pretty much an olive color all over. They emerge in the middle of the day, and they darken in color after emergence. The cool thing about the Green Drakes, from a flyfisherman’s point of view, is that the duns spend a long time on the surface, and there are lots of cripples. The mating flights and the spinner falls occur very late and into the night. These are big mayflies, but not nearly as big as the Brown Drake. The Big Wood River in Idaho has a superb Green Drake hatch in June. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. Willi, I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?
Many apologies for my making myself unclear yet again. What I really mean is not the natural flies that you haven’t seen, but the artificials that your friend showed you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help!
Thanks for the info Gary, I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect. I assume that you took the photos? Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.
Thanks for the info Gary, I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect. I assume that you took the photos? Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.
It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know. Best, Gary
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.
Willi, I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously. After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.
I have only fished into the night a few times when I was a kid. The river in light is a wonderous place, but for a 10 year old, the darkness of night makes the water kind of creepy. In ordinary days out fishing these days, I have to be home by a reasonable hour (wife & all that…) and so I’ll probably not get much opportunities for night / evening fishing ~ besides, 21 years later, I still remember how creepy the river became in darkening light PS, I had an excellent day’s fishing on my favourite stretch today. The weather was excellent (overcast, no wind and no rain but fairly warm) and there was a lot of activity taking place. The E. danica Mayfly spinners were dancing around laying their eggs. I was amazed at how many there were, considering the carnage that was wrought upon the duns. Anyhow, I had a number of pheasant tail dryflies that I had already chosen to use for the day. The fly is a simple creation of 3 PT fibres for the tail & body, and a ginger cock hackle wound fairly bushy. I have a streamlined variant with less hackle to be used in the really tricky spots where I have to cast under overhanging branches, but that is not a durable floater for general fishing. I caught about 20 fish at an average of about 3/4 lb each fish and quite a few indeed over the pound mark ~ 1 to be cooked on the smoker tomorrow. This season has seen a beefing up of the fish stock and I’m sure that the fish are bigger than that that I have become used to over the 6 years that I have fished this stream. I saw an absolute clonker leap several feet out of the water, it looked good for 2 pounds. However by the time that I reached this fish, the river went strange and my fly had become out of vogue ~ nothing went for my fly at all! Half an hour earlier I had just finished a period of about 3 hours whereby most fish that I covered rose to my fly. I had been very pleased with the fly’s performance, just as I had expected it to do since it is a good choice for this time of the year (and it is easy to tie up too). As I worked my way slowly towards the area where I saw the big fish rise, I encountered some smaller fish bulging. I wanted to turn these fish downstream of me without spooking the big trout, and so aimed to hook up as many of these fish as I could and bring them downstream and then release the tension in the line so that the hook falls out (no barbs) and releases the fish. This is a good method of clearing a shallow section of water so that the angler may proceed slightly further upstream to a target fish. I started this plan, but to no avail! The fish totally stopped taking my fly, and by the time I reached the area where the big one had been rising I did not have a single rise, despite a few fly changes, including a PT nymph. I have to admit defeat on this pool / glide, as I couldn’t entice a thing despite seeing many rises. I like this pool as it a challenging but beautiful stretch of water some 50 yards long with many fish. Cheers for now, Michael.
From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass!
Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? The flight of a newly hatched Mayfly E. danica dun is quite a sight indeed. The creatures fly relatively slowly with rapid whirring of the wings and with the tail more or less pointing towards the water. It takes them a bit of time to get the momentum up and during this time they are quite prone to aerial assults by the trout! I thoroughly recommend your seeing a drake hatch as it is like a festival on the stream. The trout really go crazy and severely reveal their presence with savage swirls / splashes / leaps and so on. On the rivers that I fish that have the E. danica, it seems like the hatching of this burrowing nymph is the trout’s primary seasonal harvest, and the trouts’ indulgence is such that caution is temporarily thrown to the wind. After the E. danica hatch is over the river quietens down progressively through the months June July & August. In late August the stream can be very quiet indeed, and only the nymph seems to be successful in enticing fish to participate in my days’ operations. During September, things liven up a little, but by the end of the month it becomes close season, with the cold winter days soon to come. I have come to believe that the hatching out of the E. danica is more or less the trouts’ raison d’etre, as it effectively forms the peak of the trouts’ feeding activities. [Just like for me, catching trout on a beautiful stream is my raison d'etre!!!!] Without the E. danica, the trout hold station and help themselves only to the morcels that pass by, with the odd excursion to snatch a sedge; little energy is expended on such table scraps. When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously. After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout , and the yearlings / 2 year olds all return to their regular (non-danica) places. The big trout then all disappear back to their lies in various alder roots at the heads of runs & pools and become somewhat more difficult to catch until the next danica hatch that is…. In England, the month of May is the dryfly month, as that is when the upwinged flies start to hatch out in earnest. The last 2 weeks in May and the first week of June are really busy days with the dryfly and it is great fun just to be there: fishing and catching fish is merely the icing on the cake. That being said, I also like the "dogdays" of late summer too, as exploration work with the nymph is just as much fun as fishing the dryfly, and more demanding of the angler’s concentration and skills etc. Regards, Michael.
Willi, this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed. Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?
Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously. After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout
My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night. Willi
Snip. Thanks. Very well-written and a useful read.
[a very informative snip] These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi
Willi, just found this little gem of a post. It seems like you’re describing the upper Grand, just below Belwood dam – long stretches of medium-slow to slow water broken by riffles and chutes. During hatches and off-colour water, these slow areas can be full of fish but in clear, low, no-hatch conditions they seem devoid of fish. This river has a limestone bottom that is fairly flat in spots yet it has underwater ledges that change the depth by 6" or so, providing holding spots for fish. I’ll work these waters from top to bottom, side-to-side with a streamer by wading downstream right down the middle and casting bank to bank. I’ve seen the "truck bed coverage" pattern of rising fish in slow water and though I have caught them on dries, though anticipating their next move can be frustrating (especially in a trico spinner fall) so I often fish them with a small streamer run very shallow and fast. Even though they are keyed on a specific bug, they will usually smack a well presented streamer, since they are already in the feeding mood. Your post is a clear statement that anglers should spend as much time observing as they spend fishing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html
One question for you Willi: do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side? Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.
I did a web search and it seems that we don’t have that specific Mayfly although we do have a number of burrowing Mayflies across the country that are generically called Drakes. These Drake hatches bring up the big fish and also bring out anglers from all over to fish them. From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance
to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass! The Mayflies on my home river are mainly small, 18 to 22. The exception is a large bright yellow Mayfly that hatches at dusk and into the night in July and August. I caught the largest trout I’ve taken on a dry during this hatch. The problem is that the hatch is strong enough to really interest the fish only once every five years or so. While at the Penn’s Clave, I got to see and fish some March Brown Mayflies. I thought they were huge but I was told that they were small compared to the Green Drakes. Willi
Good stuff snipped. Willi, this is an excellent post and something that I have also experienced, albeit in a very much minor scale to yours. My rivers are much smaller than yours, however the trout do tend to move around in a similar fashion although probably proportionally to the size of the rivers concerned. I have often found trout in the most bizarre places in the stream that I ordinarily wouldn’t have bothered casting to. It is only when I have seen the sizeable fish flee from my upstream wading that I have gathered their presence in these particular spots, or else I have been very much surprised by a very much swirlsome rise in a strange spot. In later visits I would target these areas, and indeed some good trout have been taken by my rod from these previously "fishless" spots. On my fave stream (of which I posted a pikkie in ABPF some weeks ago) there is a cow drinking spot that is at the very tail end of a long slow glide / straight pool. Immediately in front of the shallow draining section are often very big fish for the river 1.5lb plus) in the very shallow water (1 foot deep). I initially found these fish out years ago by all of their massive bow waves as they all shot off when I went wading up to them in ignorance. I paid attention to this observation and over the years have had a lot of fun trying to deceive these fish. On average, these trout in this spot have bettered my tactics as it is quite difficult to present a fly to them in consideration of the prevailing circumstances. These are very tricky fish to cast to with my small 6 foot rod: in order not to scare the fish by my presence, I have to cast at the fish whilst standing in fast water ~ if I am not careful, the drag on my line closest to me will accelerate the fly and drag it too fast past the fish. I have to be sure to collect line quickly and to hold the rod as high as possible to avoid excessive downstream drag on the fly. My most favoured approach is to use a PT nymph and pitch it about 18 inches upstream of the trout with a snaky cast (i.e. twang the flyline taut about 1 foot above the surface of the water to induce curves in the flyline / leader. The trick is to try to mend the flyline so as the fly doesn’t suddenly accelerate when the curves are all brought straight by the dragging current. A nice slow start by the nymph is much preferred over the sudden acceleration. Recently I have tried to get back into dryfly fishing, and this spot is very tricky indeed with the floating fly, however a bushier fly gives more time for the fly to be drifted over the trout before the dreaded drag acceleration. (that being said, I have caught plenty of fish with a dragging fly (usually accidentally) !!. One question for you Willi: do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side? Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out. The trout all go completely nuts for them, and the biggies come out into the pool tails and are relatively prone to the fly angler for the first half of the fortnight at least. The trout seem to be so transfixed with the Mayfly that they will not see the error of the angler. For the rest of the year the biggies seem to disappear and are difficult to engage. During the Mayfly (in England the Mayfly is a specific species of ephemerid, and it is disproportionally bigger than most other upwinged aquatic fly) fortnight the regular structure of trout feeding locations is more or less inverted and we find the big fish out in the open slow water, chasing down mayfly duns anywhere they see them. I have seen on many occasions trout leap clear of the water to intercept an E. danica as it fluttered a foot or so over the water’s surface. Regards, Michael.
There is a section of my home river where a walking/biking/jogging path runs above the river on a bluff for about a half mile. This high vantage point provides an unusual and ideal opportunity to observe the comings and going of the trout. It took me a couple of years before I began to utilize this viewing area. At first, I used the path to walk from one spot to the next or else I just waded along the banks of the river. One day, I happened to stop along the path and while looking down into the river saw a good fish feeding, suspended in the water about a foot below the surface, in an area I had ignored in the past. I took the time to check out more of the area, and found numerous good fish feeding in areas that I had passed by before because they didn’t "fit the mold" of good spots. After this first encounter, I’ve made it a habit to make observations of this stretch of water from the overlooking path on a consistent basis. I’ve learned a number of things watching the trout in this area over the years but two things I’ve learned that have changed the way I fish are: trout will move considerable distances to feed and they will choose feeding stations that are "unconventional" based on what is described by most of the angling literature. I’ve been watching these trout for most of the fifteen years I’ve lived here and have found that different fish, for their own reasons, choose different feeding areas. From my observations, it seems that the same fish choose the same stations while actively feeding, at least during water levels where I can observe and/or fish. Trout feed in a variety of locations throughout a stream or river. Some trout move very little from their holding positions to feed even during strong hatches. There are other fish who leave their holding locations to move to active feeding stations. Many of them will do this at specific times of the day depending on the season and will then return to their deeper holding water. I’ve followed fish for several hundred yards as they return to the pool after being spooked off their feeding station. Hatches will also draw them to these areas even if these hatches are at different times than their "regular" schedule. I enjoy fishing for and finding these actively feeding fish for a number of reasons. The fish have moved into these positions for one reason only, to feed and because of this, they are very vulnerable to being caught. Another reason that these fish are worth pursuing is that many of these areas are ignored by the average angler and more often produce better fish. In heavily fished water, and especially in water with open regulations, the better fish have a tendency to feed in areas where they aren’t likely to be caught. An Overview of this Stretch of Observable Water The bottom end of this stretch is the largest and deepest pool in about four or five miles of river that is form by a small diversion dam. This massive pool holds alot of fish. The head of the pool is a broad area of moderate current. The water is slower moving and the bottom more regular than the heads of pools on most western waters. Upstream from the head there is a long flat that runs upstream for about a third of a mile. The current is very moderate to slow and the bottom is regular with very few features. It averages about three feet in depth during higher water conditions, about two feet during average conditions and as low as a foot during low water conditions. There are a few depressions in this stretch where the water is about twice the average depth. At the upstream end of this flat there is a run about two hundred feet in length made up of irregular, faster, slightly deeper water. Upstream of the run there is a short area of very shallow rapid/pocket water. The Head of the Pool The head of the pool always holds some fish, but during nonfeeding times, the fish are all small. During periods of feeding activity, a good number of fish utilize the head of the pool. There is usually a pod of fish just off the near bank in the deepest water just upstream of the pool. These are moderate sized fish although I’ve seen one or two very big ones over the years. This is classic feeding water but it is also the heaviest fished part of this stretch of river. I think that there would be more, better fish using this feeding station but since it is heavily fished and the river has open regulations, I think the better fish that utilize it are regularly caught and kept. Just upstream, the water gains a bit of velocity as it becomes more shallow. There are scattered fish throughout this area using the slightly bigger rocks or slight depressions to deflect the current while they feed on the food being swept by. These trout, as a rule, are better than average sized fish. The largest number of fish that feed in the head of the pool, feed on the sloping bar of shallow water on the far side of the river. The bar starts at the far bank and gradually deepens to about three feet in depth until it drops off into the pool at the head. This bar seldom gets fished because it is where 90%+ of the anglers stand to fish the obvious deep run along the near bank. The fish on this bar will consistently feed in water from one to three feet deep but will move into water just inches deep if the hatch is heavy and the sun isn’t direct. This sloping bar holds all sizes of fish. I caught the biggest fish I’ve caught in the river on this bar. It was caught at sunset on a summer eve, on a large dry in very shallow water where I saw it pushing wakes of water as it fed. The Long Flat The next upstream stretch is the longest area of this section, almost about a third of a mile in length. It is a very featureless stretch of slow to moderately moving water. Aside from a few scattered fish that have found small niches, there is very little holding water and during nonfeeding times, it is virtually devoid of fish. It is water that in the past, I had always considered to be waste water. However, each morning and evening during the "season" trout move up from the pool to feed in this area. Hatches during the day will also bring fish up from the downstream pool. Some fish set up typical feeding stations but because of the slow current speed in many areas, some of the trout will set up a territory and cruise, more like lake dwelling fish. These fish will typically set up a feeding pattern covering an area typically about the size of large truck’s bed. They’ll feed at their upstream limit, then drift back and to the side to feed again and then repeat this pattern until they reach their downstream limit. Then the fish will swim back to its starting position and start the cycle over again. In this apparently, featureless area, most of the feeding stations or territories are difficult or impossible to find without directly observing the fish from the elevated bank because there are no obvious visual cues that suggest a good lie. Even when observing the fish in their stations/territories, it is usually impossible to discern what advantage their chosen area has over another seemingly identical area that never holds a fish. This long stretch of water will produce all sizes of fish. Again I’ve observed that the very few "obvious" spots, generally don’t hold the best fish. Again, I believe that this is because the better fish that use these obvious areas are caught and kept. The Top Run and Rapids Section The broken surface of the water in this area makes direct observation impossible except during very low water levels. Most of the observations I’ve made are based on fish rising, bulging or pushing water while feeding as well as by angling for them. There are a few deeper spots in this area as well as some undercuts that also serve as holding water. Even though this area is fished fairly heavily, it consistently produces better fish. However, once again the best fish tend to be in areas that are either neglected by other anglers ie. VERY shallow sections or are difficult to fish ie undercut willows. All the typical lies in this area hold fish. Each seam, back eddy, pocket, depression, etc. has the potential of a fish. Because of its broken and somewhat deeper water, this is the only area in this whole stretch of river that will hold better fish during "off" times. During feeding periods, more fish will move into this area from the downstream pool. I’ve had some exceptional days on this area, especially during hatches. However, most of the best fish I’ve taken from this area have been in the VERY shallow water in the edges of the rapids at the top of the run. Sometimes they’ll feed in water so shallow that I’ve spotted the fish by the bulges of water they pushed upward while they’re feeding. Shallow areas like these are ignored by virtually all anglers. The other spot in this area where I’ve consistently caught good fish is a small eddy behind a log protruding from the bank. This spot is difficult to fish and requires an unconventional approach to cover correctly. These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi
Looking for pattern for streamer called Howdy Doody. I believe that is the name of the fly. Seen it on a fishing show, so I haven’t heard of it before.. Can anyone help me…..
I tried an internet search and found no references to it. So feel free to make up a pattern and name it "Howdy Doody" Paul
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for pattern for streamer called Howdy Doody. I believe that is the name of the fly. Seen it on a fishing show, so I haven’t heard of it before.. Can anyone help me…..
I tried an internet search and found no references to it. So feel free to make up a pattern and name it "Howdy Doody"
Be sure it has bright red dubbing, freckles, and big ears.
Hello, I recently was in my local K-Mart and checked out the fishing section, while I would find little use in ,most of the products they sell I did find what I precieve to be a bargain. I found Scientific Anglers AirCel Supreme2 WF-6 and-7- F/S wet tip III lines for $10.00 each, the orignal price was $36.00 so I picked up two 7wts. and one 6wt.
Those were a bargain, unless they had been ‘cooking’ in the back of the store for years. Don’t tinker with them: you’ll end up spoiling perfectly good lines. Here on UK stillwaters we use sink tips when we need to get wet flies and nymphs down a foot or three deeper than could be achieved with a full floater. Sink tips aren’t quite as sweet to cast as floaters (or even full sinking lines), but they are handy to have in the armoury. You might find them useful for getting nymphs down a bit in faster/deeper streams. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon
Hello, I recently was in my local K-Mart and checked out the fishing section, while I would find little use in ,most of the products they sell I did find what I precieve to be a bargain. I found Scientific Anglers AirCel Supreme2 WF-6 and-7- F/S wet tip III lines for $10.00 each, the orignal price was $36.00 so I picked up two 7wts. and one 6wt. My questions are has anybody used this line in the sink tip much, I have never used a sink tip and if it would be better to have a top of the line (line) I would use the three I have to trade w/friends and purchase a higher quality line. Does this line have a stiff finish (AirCell) also my last question is about what line wt. to use, I have a fast 6.wt. and the directions say to use a line wt. heavier if you want to trim the 10ft. tip into say a 6ft. I find a floater is just fine for the majority of my fishing but there are times when a sink tip would be good, Does the weight then come from the tip itself? and if I trimmed back a 6wt. line would it be too light to load easily? if anybody can help please reply I just know $10.00 either way is worth it I have a new S.A. catalog and do not see the old lines anymore and have never had an older catalog so I am not famaliar w/ this product. Thanks…
My WF4F line is a $10 SA from kmart. nice dull green color, handles well. I like it. There’s the chance it will wear out sooner than a high dollar line, but at $10, just get another one! Since a WF line has most of its weight at the sharp end, cutting 5′ of the sinking section off should have a noticeable effect on how it casts, plus, you will lose the tapered section. But, if you feel like experimenting, all you are risking is $10. Personally, I would leave it as is, at least for the time being. Charlie Quinton Laramie, Wyo.
Good Deal. I have used the same line for a couple of seasons in 6& 8 wt. (but I don’t use sink tips all that much anyway) It is shorter than I’m use to … About 85 ft I think. I have found it easy casting and long casting. It is much better than some Cortland sink tips I’ve used. I think I purchased the lines for about $20 a few years back on a closeout and they are worth every penny! I use the same wt line as the rod and I think I have cut one of these lines back to 8′ with no problem. If the line is like mine it is a fairly slow sink tip (although the box states fast 1.50"-2" per second) and doesn’t overload the way some of the other sink tips do. I suspect the sinking portion on this line is accomplished more by it’s small tip diameter than extra weight. I use SA Mastery Bonefish lines mostly but this line is quite similar to SA Ultra with regard to stiffness and feel. It also works fine in cold weather with little memory. I wish our Kmart’s carried the stuff. My good find lately was at a Wal-Mart. 2mm Neoprene socks for $8 and 2mm neoprene gloves w/ finger cutouts for $9—-Hunting Dept. Tip: Try a very short leader with the sink tip (12" then 18" tippet) It will cast better,the fly will sink better, and the fish don’t seem mind. Good Fishing
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I recently was in my local K-Mart and checked out the fishing section, while I would find little use in ,most of the products they sell I did find what I precieve to be a bargain. I found Scientific Anglers AirCel Supreme2 WF-6 and-7- F/S wet tip III lines for $10.00 each, the orignal price was $36.00 so I picked up two 7wts. and one 6wt. My questions are has anybody used this line in the sink tip much, I have never used a sink tip and if it would be better to have a top of the line (line) I would use the three I have to trade w/friends and purchase a higher quality line. Does this line have a stiff finish (AirCell) also my last question is about what line wt. to use, I have a fast 6.wt. and the directions say to use a line wt. heavier if you want to trim the 10ft. tip into say a 6ft. I find a floater is just fine for the majority of my fishing but there are times when a sink tip would be good, Does the weight then come from the tip itself? and if I trimmed back a 6wt. line would it be too light to load easily? if anybody can help please reply I just know $10.00 either way is worth it I have a new S.A. catalog and do not see the old lines anymore and have never had an older catalog so I am not famaliar w/ this product. Thanks…
Planning a trip next Jan/Feb … would be interested in opinions on the top spots on South Island for good flyfishing … plan on doing a little guided and a little on-my-own fishing … love rivers over lakes always … thanks
Planning a trip next Jan/Feb … would be interested in opinions on the top spots on South Island for good flyfishing … plan on doing a little guided and a little on-my-own fishing … love rivers over lakes always … thanks
John, I’ve been to the South Island twice. (You can read about it on my web site www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 with pictures. The thumbnails will load a larger image if you click on them). There’s a lot to recommend about just about anywhere on the South Island. Most of my experience is in Otago (out of Wanaka) and Southlands (north of Gore). Absolute must stop is the Mataura river. Can recommend guides to you if you email me. Michael
I can recommend the Mataura River (the evening rise is spectacular), and also the Hurunui River if it has a good flow…unlikely at that time of year. Most of us Sth Islanders fish the lakes over summer, as the braided rivers are very low. Try Lakes Hawea and Tekapo in Otago. The West Coast gets most of the rain, so rivers like the Grey will fish well, but get a guide for these. Tight Lines Greg Christchurch, NZ — FREEDOM is neither a state of mind, nor a state of being. Rather, it is an essential part of every living persons’ existence
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How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec? I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all? Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.
The Aztec would burn considerably more than 8-10 GPH. Probably closer to 25 GPH. So we are talking about over 500 gallons. The Aztec is a rather slow twin with a pair of 250 HP flat engines. It is Pipers upscale Apache, just as the Beech Baron is the high power version of the Travelair. John
Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html.
This link doesn’t work for me?
I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome). Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all? Which route would one take? Thanks, James
Check out http://www.calle.com/aviation/airports.cgi Allows you to specify departure, destination, range and speed, and displays a nice table and map of the results. Lots of material for dream flights… BTW you probably don’t want a totally deserted island; food, water, fuel, runway and women should be minimum requirements (the website allows you to specify 2 out of these 5 Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome). Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all? Which route would one take? Thanks, James
I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome). Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all? Which route would one take? Thanks, James
I think someone tried this in a twin. Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on :-) Jeff Oslick
I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome). Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all? Which route would one take? Thanks, James
Da Plane, Boss, Da Plane! (sorry, just couldn’t help myself) John Galban====N4BQ (PA28-180)
I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome). Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all? Which route would one take? Thanks, James
James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard
I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard
First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard
I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome). Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all? Which route would one take? Thanks, James The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter.
You could also go up to Alaska, across and down through Russia, over to Japan and then on to the South Pacific. It is a much longer journey, but no 2000 mile over water legs. (I wonder how far the jump to Palau would be, I’ve always wanted to go there…) Brian
First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air.
My rounded off 2100 NM was only a paltry 11 NM off from your very accurate 2089!! well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying more than 5 hours on one engine. cg
It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard
I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air. well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying more than 5 hours on one engine. cg First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard
First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard
I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve. – Doug - Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934
It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is. Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you. If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase. The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption. To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet. The 3 hour reserve is not bad. The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion. I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec. Then I would add another three hours for reserve. That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve. – Doug - Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934
OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts? I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome). Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all? Which route would one take? Thanks, James James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard
What is the availability of av-gas in Russia. I hear that it’s non-existant. D.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec. Then I would add another three hours for reserve. That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec? I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all? Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil. If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard
Reinhard is exactly right. You notice in the original post that I did mention that it would take some fancy ferry tanks to get the fuel in! When my airplane flew across the Atlantic from Brazil to Cornwall, they added a special fancy ferry tank. A 50 gallon drum on chocks where the back seat goes, with a wobble pump to pump fuel up into the wing tank. They recommended that you run the wing tank down to less than a quarter full before pumping fuel up to it. They said watch the gauges so you do not overfill it and pump fuel overboard. The also recommended the long distance power setting of 1800 RPM and 23 inches of manifold pressure. That was supposed to get the fuel consumption down to 14.7 gallons per hour. That gave a little over eight hours in the air. At that power setting, you get 100 knots! Still wouldn’t make Honolulu! John
No idea about a KR2, but you might want to read Sport Aviation (past few issues) and look for the 2 part round the world story by the author and Burt Rutan, who flew their Long EZ’s around the world. Very informative (and nice pictures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts? I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts? I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane.
James, You are considering a monumental task here ol chap, this sought of feat requires a hell of a lot of homework and I would suggest you’re really stretching it in a KR-2. With a large amount of retro-fitting you could possibly carry out this adventure, however the stakes are extremely high! I would also endorse the above, ie read Jon Johannson’s book and while your doing that bare a thought for the planning both technically and enroute that goes into these voyages. You may also wish to contact the "Mick & Dick" of "Round the World Friendship Tour":- Sport Aviation Feb edition Pg 76. For a start, unless you’ve got heaps of "Bucks" behind you, just go build your A/C and enjoy flying it around the "States". Whilst I’ll admit, I don’t have an intermit knowledge of the KR-2 and its weight & balance etc, it is only small by any standards. Its payload excess does not go down well with the number crunching required when you consider such additions as fuel, extra redundancy systems req’d, and ESPECIALLY CONSIDER ENGINE RELIABLITY etc, etc. To say the least, 18 plus hours is a long time to spend in the close confines of a KR-2 cockpit, surrounded by custom built ferry tanks around your ears. I have two buddies that were involved in Ferry Flights across the Pacific in their younger days. One of them did get his feet wet mid Pacific (1200 Nm from nowhere & at night) when the nut on the Alternator pulley worked its way loose. Lucky for him he had spotted a fishing boat a couple of hours before and was able to back track and relocate it. All be it, he was now down to torch and compass. That was in a brand new production A/C as well. Glenn now does his long transcontinental flights the same way I do, the only way:-In style at 43,000 ft. James, whilst your challenge is a commendable one, the golden rule is to keep your feet dry. Best way to do that is travel the South Pacific the same way most of us do, In a 747, 767 etc, and don’t forget you can have the added advantage of sipping champagne or other adult beverages!! If you’re considering going on from HNL to other South Pacific destinations, then you have a hole heap more challenges in front of you. Regards Ray (Just my 2 cents worth) J.
My tongue was firmly in cheek. I don’t fly VFR without at least 1 hour reserve. — Doug - Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is. Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you. If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase. The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption. To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet. The 3 hour reserve is not bad. The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion. I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec. Then I would add another three hours for reserve. That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! John I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve. – Doug - Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934
OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts? I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James
Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane. Rgds JD …… I’d rather be flying ….. John Duncan M.C.N.E. PPL(A) J.P. AOPA(Aust)#42745 EAA#548147 J & J Network Services Pty Ltd P.O. Box 109 Minto N.S.W. 2566 Australia
I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec. Then I would add another three hours for reserve. That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec? I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all? Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.
If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard
It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is. Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you. If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase. The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption. To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet. The 3 hour reserve is not bad. The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion. I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec. Then I would add another three hours for reserve. That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!
How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec? I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all? Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.
What did you assume that I would try it without any preflight planning?? cg It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard
First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve. – Doug -
Surely you jest, Doug. Kidding aside, the special flight permit that you get for the overload condition and he temporary fuel tank installation requires you calculate in a 3 hour reserve on transoceanic flights. Things can happen while on such a long flight; the forecast winds can turn out different, you might have equipment problems that cause you to burn more fuel for less airspeed than you had planned, etc. I have had several a couple of occasions when I was glad for the extra fuel. Remember, there is only one time when you can have too much fuel: when you are on fire. Reinhard
To what nefarious purpose will these stories be put? Is there compensation for the author or at least ego gratifying recognition? Len Hunter
I’m starting a collection of fly-fishing stories. I’d be interested in anything funny, exciting, unbelievable, thrilling, interesting, or just a little odd. Just email your stories to me. Please be as accurate in the story as possible. Thanks.
This story is a fictional compound of several true incidents. Unfortunately, the angler of the lost fly rod was a very nice guy; nothing bad happened to the rude and obnoxious clients. I knew I was in trouble within a few minutes of meeting the clients. They appeared at the outfitter in full dress–like officers in some weird flyfisherman’s army, brigadiers maybe or Protocol Officers. In fact, they were arguing over the proper placement of their Backup Nipper. Top-to-bottom Orvis, Sage, Abel, etc. If they had been paid by the logo we would all have been millionaires. To be sure, their equipment was glorious. Several flyrods each, with a lengthy discussion of which was most appropriate (the seven and the eight) and how many the raft could comfortably carry (we agreed on four each, with reservations on the guide’s part.) This despite the fact that we had already covered this ground in phone calls. Beautiful tackle bags, unmarred. Boxes of flies, in large groups by nomenclature. I was jealous, I must admit. Even so, I snuck some of my equipment back into the shuttle vehicle; I was a bit worried about payload. I must say, this was unusual. Though many of our clients are novices, we rarely see two anglers so obviously overequipped and underexperienced. It’s most usual to see the novice in the care of a more experienced angler. Also, we have no aversion to the inexperienced; our business is teaching, and that calls for patience and flexibility. This level of confidence belied by the facts was worrisome, though; would the clients’ expectations ruin the trip? Could they cast to the bass, could they hook up at all? We fish for ten to twelve hours; could inexperienced casters work for that long? And would they blame me if any of these answers was ‘no’? We also had to do a lot of preparation, which left me a bit worried about casting skills. Three of four spools were brand new; it was proposed that we would load spools there at the ramp, while smallmouths chased bait in the shallows around us. At first the clients were pleasant and relaxed; they said the right things about taking advice and so forth. We got ready and shoved off. But as soon as we were feet-wet, things deteriorated. Tension between the clients became obvious, and I was glad that they sat facing opposite directions. Their fly choices, casting directions, and retrieves had nothing to do with my advice. They were in an arms race. Both were well-tutored by the mainstream fly-fishing press, and they hurled advice at each other like snowballs packed around rocks. I was in between. Neither could get their flyline out of the boat. Half an hour into the trip, drifting along through some of the most spectacular scenery in the East, and they were angry. Not the best start to a guided trip. And the smallies were on, too; I saw a lot of surface activity. When the front angler fought a cast out about three rod-lengths and stripped in the excess flyline, a 14" fish slashed at his dahlberg right at boatside. That was the only fish they moved all morning. They changed flies, hung them in brush, on rocks, on the oars. They debated barbless hooks even as I extracted one from my shoulder, barb fully functional but, thankfully, not quite engaged. They drank single-malt scotch but didn’t like it. Just for a break, I put them out wading in a shallow, weedy area. While they hacked and pumped and tied knots, I took a few tentative casts. Smallies to 12" took readily throughout the area. A few minutes later, a shout; one angler hooked, landed, and displayed, with what looked to be a fatal torso squeeze, a nice fish of about 14". I grew angrier and angrier. In the previous week, tough conditions had limited good, old clients to few fish and few that size. A few minutes later, with no other fish caught, I mounted them up and rode on. Things came to a head as we approached a sharp, narrow rapid through a broken-down diversion dam. The river here is mostly shallow, riffly ledges and rocks, with pools and weeds edges–classic smallmouth water. As we approached the dam, I told them to pick up and keep their lines in, since the drop required a turn in the throat of the rapid to avoid jagged concrete and rebars that would tear the bottom out of the raft. Both anglers disregarded this direction, and as we accelerated through the white water the guy in the aft seat hung up. The boat was in mid-turn, and moving quickly. I saw the rod go down and bend sharply. The angler called it a fish, but it obviously wasn’t. "Give line! You’re hung up! Drop line!" I yelled. "It’s a good one," he said. The boat turned completely so that the flyline ran under, from stem to stern. He was leaning into my sightline, to his left and my right. The rod was compounded now, three-guides into the water, and he was holding tight. I tried to pivot the boat a bit, but I had to hold my direction or risk a wreck. "Give line! Your’e hung! I’ve got to turn. Your’e going to break the rod!" He didn’t give line, the rod didn’t break: he let go of it. It hung there a weird still second, then snapped straight and dove into the water, hung there a moment, then seemed to zoom upstream as the boat shot down current. There was a stunned silence, which I welcomed. As we drifted to a quiet spot, the forward angler asked questions: He had missed the whole thing. The aft angler was completely quiet, contemplating the permanent loss of a seven-hundred dollar outfit which had never caught a fish. The 25-year guarantee didn’t cover loss by misadventure. Feebly, he tried the Big Fish argument. I wouldn’t even reply. Pausing forty yards below the rapid, I was caught in a moral dilemma. Our river is shallow, but forceful; a young woman had drowned in a canoe mishap against a rock about forty feet from where we sat a few years before. The water was warm, and I knew the spot intimately; I was fairly sure that I could find the flyrod if the hook still held the snag. Even if it had come loose, it was highly findable in the hole below, with a floating line and clear water. But should I? The angler considered it lost. He had plenty more, and was probably already composing the story for his friends, complete with bronze flash and tail the size of a Bible, no doubt with a supporting role as villain by Sincerely Yours. The guy was a mouth and a credit card, who had completely concealed all admirable qualities so far in the four hours we had known each other. I sat for a long moment, then heaved a heavy sigh and dropped a hook. "What’s up?" said the angler hopefully. "You guys sit tight. I may be able to get it back." No reply. I worked my way up to the dam in the slow water, alternately wading and swimming. The usual friendly smooth river boulders were absent; it was jagged concrete and odd angles. Careful footholds and a steep lean into the flow. I couldn’t hope to work all the way up to the main rapid, but the faster water was shallower so I could hold. Standing waist-deep in it, I stood and looked; sure enough, I saw the but and reel of the rod flare up in the swash. Decision time. I imagined how to do it: Hit the ramp at nine pm, after the glorious dusk whitefly hatch. Rack up and drop off at 10; drive up here and make the quarter-mile wade in the dark. Feel through the rapid, hit the line, grab the rod; one sharp pull and I get a $700 tip. If the day smooths out and the clients turn out OK, return the rod and call it an Abe Lincold honesty thing; if they fulfill their promise as first-class jerks, and especially if they stiff me, then the rod is mine. The rod rolled up again, almost breaking the surface; I looked back. The forward guy was just watching, but the aft guy was looking away, an odd, vulnerable look on his face. I realized a lot then, about how the attitude was a veneer, the macho competition covered a softer and simpler person. I couldn’t tell yet if he loved fish or fishing or rivers or boats, but I realized that the loss of the rod was probably fatal to his chances of ever loving any of it. My guide habits created disdain and disapproval, but my river instincts told me that the river rarely returns something won fairly, and that to abuse the event was bad karma. I couldn’t resist the impulse. I gave him a smile and a nod and a thumbs-up, waited for the rod to show again, and leaned forward for it. An easy catch, a yank and it was mine. I rode the current back to them, winding up the slack line, and handed him the rod, wet and new. I’d like to say the event changed the guy and things looked up; it’s half true. The guy was grateful enough, but he didn’t have the eggs to really see my side of it. I said, "Now will you listen to me?" and they both nodded, and they took a more relaxed and cooperative approach for a while. They got their flylines out of the boat a few times, and caught some fish, too. I got a reasonable tip, though the episode of the lost flyrod wasn’t mentioned again and the tip didn’t reflect the service that day. I also gained the patience to stick with the difficult clients. Somehow that day helped me to regain the basic comfort with the river that several years of difficult clients and finicky fish had eroded. I remembered something that I had forgotten: a guide is a teacher, and sometimes the best lesson is failure. Davemo18
What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? I have fished with some Master Anglers. They are those guys that never brag and always catch something when it is really tough. Everyone can improve their fishing skills, but most of us will never get to that level. In the last thirty years I have fished with or near some great fly fisherman. Many of us are good anglers, but there is only a handful of great ones. Many of the best are only know locally for their great skill and will not be writen about in magazine articles. There are also some great anglers that don’t fly fish.
A Master Angler? One who fishes humbly, always in wonder. Musconet
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? [much good stuff deleted] Is a Master Angler old? Often. But not always. Its an attitude first more than ability. By itself partial knowledge is grenade. Or it is a tool. The partition is in its administration . This is wisdom. And above all else a Master Angler is Wise Taken from the pages of Master Angler . . . . — Bob Sheedy Arctic Fire Software Home of THE FISHING LOG and MASTER ANGLER http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm
Really good post! I was told a story by someone I now know to be a Master Angler. Apparently, while at a meeting of some Ministry mucky mucks and some fishing types a survey was conducted by one of the Ministry types to help them better understand the sports demographics and socio/economic impact. Among the many questions was one asking the anglers to classify themselves as to their ability. The categories were, beginer, novice, intermediate and expert. Several years later, the person who had developed the survey was bumped into again by the story teller. Being a curious sort he asked what the survey results had revealed. Apparently the most significant information gleaned from the survey was the anglers assesment of their abilities. 15% beginers, 25% novice, 50% intermediate and 10% expert. The conclusion drawn was that despite popular perception, only 10% of anglers are indeed liars! Mind you, this was several years ago. Mike
I know this much: anyone who believes him/herself to be a master angler is definitely not one; I don’t care what kind of silly badge they’ve been awarded. Not everything in life was created to be mastered. You can’t master angling any more than you can master the water the sky or time itself. Spinolio
I know this much: anyone who believes him/herself to be a master angler is definitely not one; I don’t care what kind of silly badge they’ve been awarded. Not everything in life was created to be mastered. You can’t master angling any more than you can master the water the sky or time itself. Spinolio
Being from the 28 th century, sent here to save one trout through C&R that will reshape mankinds future course and take us to the next plateau in human development, I must object to the reference of our inability to control time! If you only knew. Mike
anyone, who allows fishing to take them to that place unencumbered by social pressures of any kind. TimW
A Master Angler is anyone who takes a kid fishing for the day and both return home with a smile.
What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? I have fished with some Master Anglers. They are those guys that never brag and always catch something when it is really tough.
This isn’t always correct. The master anglers I know brag, but in a sneaky way. Master Angler (MA): Nice day out, how you doing? Average Angler(AA): Oh, really well, I got 4 fish. How bout you? MA: I guess I did ok. AA: how many fish did you catch? MA: Oh, somewhere around 20. It’s the humbling factor. Of course the Master angler actually has caught that many. Carl carl
Any Angler with a MasterCard. TimW
Any Angler with a MasterCard. TimW
Clearifying ranks: 1) Beginner Doesn’t know how to spell MasterCard 2) Intermediate Learning how to spell MasterCard 3) Master Knows how to spell MasterCard 4) The Local Picks your pocket 
George
Anyone who knows more than I do about any flyfishing subject, and will share that knowledge, is master enough for me.
What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? Its a question that has many answers. In some States, Provinces all you have to do is catch a fish over a certain size and you automatically qualify. You get a certificate, badge and everything. Think about it. You tied on a hook a line and a sinker and wham. First time fishing and you qualified as an overnight success! Your name is in the Provincial or State Records and you can proudly show it to everyone. And you do. For others to be a Master Angler you have to be like the guys on TV. You need THINGS to qualify. A Bassboat with at least 200HP and at least 17 feet of solid foam filled unsinkable fibreglass because to have fun you have to be able to hit every hot spot on 145,000 acres of water every two hours. Having your name emblazoned on the side of your 4 x4 and stitched on your designer jump suit is a certain give away that you’ve made the grade. Even if you hit the dock empty handed you can shout at your friend to make sure the live well is running because you want them fresh when you get home. People at the dock will surely be impressed and if your out on the water you can give a high double handed overhand hookset and yell, "Fish on", that will definitely qualify you for something! For others fishing is a competition. First with each other and then money for first fish, biggest fish to keep things interesting. They work at it hard and the rewards gained, though spotty, and often controlled more by combinations and permutations rather than angler interventions, begin to come more frequently. Most visible in all of this is perhaps the Tournament where the winner is unquestionably revered as a Master Angler and that of some instant note. There is nothing wrong with any or all three of the above. We have all met them on and off the water every one and each has his or her niche in the sport and their justifiable claim to fame. Even fly fishermen now compete and for cash. There are however distortions developing as to who really is good at the sport and like Christ’s disciples, mainly fishermen, long dissertations of who really is the best ensue often under many guises and not just the few above. In reality the title is not acquired by way of obtaining it through instant material aquisitions, winning a tournament or Tackle Company sponsorship. All of these things are market driven aberrations which lengthen Manufacturers Balance sheets and are maneuvered by a handful of men who set the promotions for the year just as surely as the toy manufacturers eye the December market. Slick promotions have done much for the enhancement of the sport and ensured success through valid stocking programs and stream renewals by those attracted. This is the upside. Perhaps inadvertently the Movie, "A River Runs Through It", did more for the streams of Montana and area than any other item published in the past 30 years. It breathed life into the art of flyfishing and turned it into a big business. It also filled the waters with fishermen and floating devices to the point where the streamside watering holes, tackle shops and the on-line forums are filled with complaints of overcrowding and overuse to the point where the steady hum of who is the best is all but drowned out. The Movie was a powerful advertisement whether intended as such or not. So to is the power of the deliberately orchestrated image building advertisement in a powerful media. When your favourite Saturday AM hero stands up and tells you that "Brand X" Lures are his secret weapon you are more likely to believe him if you just witnessed 18 minutes of watching him rip fishlips. It works! More and more I see people imitating his methods and why not! They catch fish! Lots of fish. There is another assessment to consider however . . . . Looking back over the years I look at my own development as a fisherman and see myself reflected in the others I’ve met along the banks of stream or puddling around in lakes. Although they overlap considerably there are definite identifiable peaks in the development process. There is the stage when someone first takes up the sport. The huge array of disciplines and the tackle for each can be a formidable learning process in itself long before you ever arrive at the water. Even species selection has become so specialized that you almost need a degree in ichthyology before you make your first cast. So the first stage is set by the crowd that visits a lake from time to time launches or sets up a chaise lounge and throws out a favourite bait. Success is related to fish activity and generally they are likeliest to go when they are "biting". Another stage is delineated by those who take it a step further and begin to notice feeding lanes, weed edges and other structures and the increase in success as they learn more about them. Piscatorial Prosperity begins to come even on the days when no one else is getting anything. At the end of this stage a cocky attitude begins to grow as one realizes that he is getting GOOD. Probably this is the most dangerous stage for a fisherman. At this point growth can regress into a few successful lures and techniques and since they work often and the fish kills are numerous why change? The same thread runs through flyfishing as well. Success begins to come easier and easier and the catches begin to increase to the point that they actually start going back in if such was not the philosophy from the outset. I mean if you have a fifty fish day you cannot keep them all. If you happen to match the hatch and the fish are on a feeding binge fifty fish days are a real possibility to those who can cast a fly. Then it all changes. What is the goal now?. Bigger catches? A tournament? Guiding? As humans we have to always be challenged. Its in our DNA. Should the challenge die then so does the interest whether by success or by failure. Either can stunt our progress. The Hubble telescope was designed carefully to put and end to the quest for the edges of the universe. Very quickly walls and bubbles were found as the patterns of galaxies were modeled in a 3D. Did the Universe shrink? Instead the edges were moved to awesome depths of anonymity and the modeling is showing a pattern and shape that is disquieting in its rhythm and regularity. No questions were answered rather quest beget questions. So it is when you walk to the top of the hills in the Piscatorial Pursuits and peer over the top only to witness new vistas in all their snowcapped glory. Suddenly the realization becomes manifest in one moment of fundamental aquatic truth. You know very little about the old hookjaw himself and his habits, his environment and how he relates to it. This lack of knowledge is invigorating and interest is renewed at higher levels. The dangerous hump is passed. You are going to become a Master Angler. Article Unavailable
What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? [much good stuff deleted]
Here are some definitions I made up just now: beginner: the trout often makes a fool out of him novice: once in a while he catches a trout, but has no idea why intermediate: the trout sometimes don’t even know he is there expert: can catch trout when others can only catch a cold master: able to predict the strike precisely, even before it happens __ john quill taylor / / writer at large / / Hewlett-Packard, Storage Systems Division __ /_/ / Boise, Idaho U.S.A. /_/ __ _ Telephone: (208) 396-2328 (MST = GMT – 7) / \ / Snail Mail: Hewlett-Packard / \ 11413 Chinden Blvd \ Boise, Idaho 83714 _/ Mailstop 852 _/ _/ "When in doubt, do as doubters do." – jqt – haiti, rwanda, cuba, bosnia, … we have a list, where is our schindler?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? [much good stuff deleted] Here are some definitions I made up just now: beginner: the trout often makes a fool out of him novice: once in a while he catches a trout, but has no idea why intermediate: the trout sometimes don’t even know he is there expert: can catch trout when others can only catch a cold master: able to predict the strike precisely, even before it happens
Being me, I’d say: Beginner: "Well, I thought they were brown trout. Are chubs good to eat?" Novice: "I don’t know, I’ve never tried one." Intermediate: "Naw, they’re trash fish." Expert: "I wouldn’t be caught dead with a chub, or lowlife fisherman that catch them. I’m out of here." Master: "I don’t know, let’s cook one up and see." Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? I have fished with some Master Anglers. They are those guys that never brag and always catch something when it is really tough. This isn’t always correct. The master anglers I know brag, but in a sneaky way. Master Angler (MA): Nice day out, how you doing? Average Angler(AA): Oh, really well, I got 4 fish. How bout you? MA: I guess I did ok. AA: how many fish did you catch? MA: Oh, somewhere around 20. It’s the humbling factor. Of course the Master angler actually has caught that many. carl
Don’t take that for granted Carl, usually people who still take an exact tally at the end of the day/evening…really haven’t *gotten it* yet. tight_lines, steve d.
[text deleted] Taken from the pages of Master Angler . . . .
Phew ! Glad that wasn’t written by a bait fisherman ! TimW
What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify?
I have fished with some Master Anglers. They are those guys that never brag and always catch something when it is really tough. Everyone can improve their fishing skills, but most of us will never get to that level. In the last thirty years I have fished with or near some great fly fisherman. Many of us are good anglers, but there is only a handful of great ones. Many of the best are only know locally for their great skill and will not be writen about in magazine articles. There are also some great anglers that don’t fly fish. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA
What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? Much interesting stuff deleted. — Bob Sheedy
Umm, so Bob – if you fish with worms; how long before you get to be a masterbaiter? David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.
Umm, so Bob – if you fish with worms; how long before you get to be a masterbaiter?
Too obvious, you should have taken the pun approach ala an earlier post. Then you could have said you saw it ‘coming’<g. Charlie…
What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? Much interesting stuff deleted. — Bob Sheedy Umm, so Bob – if you fish with worms; how long before you get to be a masterbaiter? David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.
In Louisiana I’m told you need to serve 2 seasons as an apprentice, learning to bait and assisting others, another 3 seasons as a fully qualified baiter, afterwhich, and upon the unamimous consent of the Captains of the Shrimp Fleet, and by the grace of Posiedon, you can be awarded the "clenched fist (and teeth)" medal of a MASTER. This is a paraphrase of a dissertaion delivered by one Midshipman 4th Class Rollie DuCote of Gretna LA, on or about July 22nd 1970, delivered before the assembled Class of 1974, of the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, Kings Point, N.Y., in response to a question concerning his qualifications for admission to the Academy. Rollie I hope you are listening. jg
Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale…
Hello Sandy, Give up on the scheme and settle in for the long haul. You should have more than a hundred acres if you want to start a subdivision. Or make your subdivision somewhere where you’re not ruining what you came for, like Billings. Let the beavers have the run of the place. Beavers are more desireable than Californians. It will be more valuable as a natural place. If you don’t subdivide and develop it, we Californians will pay you decent money to fish it for a day or two and then best of all we will go home. If you let me fish it free next summer I’ll make you a painting of it. I’ll leave out the houses and I can leave out the lake too if you wish. Mark Vinsel Oakland, CA http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html
Mark, How badly you dissappoint! When I saw your topic I thought, "Well, this doesn’t belong in this Newsgroup either but it would be a hell of a lot more interesting to discuss". Maybe you and Fletch and T-bone and all the others who participate in the peta and tree hugging discourses should start your "rec.fishing.rag" group. It’s tough to eat beaver then, too.
Mark, How badly you dissappoint! When I saw your topic I thought, "Well, this doesn’t belong in this Newsgroup either but it would be a hell of a lot more interesting to discuss". Maybe you and Fletch and T-bone and all the others who participate in the peta and tree hugging discourses should start your "rec.fishing.rag" group. It’s tough to eat beaver then, too.
Whoa! I think the ref tossed a flag on that remark… (At this rate, it’s gonna be a l o n g winter! ;^) Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp. Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus Maynard, Massachusetts < < Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited" < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be shared by my employer, etc…
Mark, How badly you dissappoint! When I saw your topic I thought, "Well, this doesn’t belong in this Newsgroup either but it would be a hell of a lot more interesting to discuss". Maybe you and Fletch and T-bone and all the others who participate in the peta and tree hugging discourses should start your "rec.fishing.rag" group. It’s tough to eat beaver then, too.
THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A FLY FISHING AND EVEN FLY TYING GROUP and all I see is nonsense other than what is supposed to be discussed here. Beaver dubbing is used to make a great pattern called the Adams. It is also (grey and very fine and it dubs terrifically) used in gray nymphs and a varied number of flies well worth everyone’s attention. Beaver is not tough to eat if you pat it first. (Actually, par-boil) George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Lets get back to fly fishing!
I try to bring a rod/reel with me when I backpack (my friend always brings his). I mainly bring a few flys with me. I think a good time to fish is when the mosquitos come out. If you look at a lake you’ll see if fish are in there when the mosquitos are out (feeding time). Harold. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later. Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking? Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated. I am not. I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment. In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us? Who packs a rod and are glad they did? Secret bait? Techniques? Equipment? Eggs, worms, lures? Just give it up? Hunt for crawdads instead? Catching local bait? Set a line overnight? Anything . . . — John Kiljan
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing?
To the best of my knowledge, trout are not native to most alpine lakes. There is always a fall or bad rapids that prevents upstream migration. If there are fish in high country lakes, they probably are stocked. You’ll just have to ask. the best place is a local fly shop. …… Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within…..
Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later. Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking? Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated. I am not. I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.
Well, here is an answer from a dedicated fisherman who backpacks. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment. In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands.
Hard to say why you have never seen a fish up in the mountains… They are harder to see because they are wild and blend in with the bottom better, and they tend to be a lot smaller due to the restricted growing season. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us? Who packs a rod and are glad they did? Secret bait? Techniques? Equipment? Eggs, worms, lures? Just give it up? Hunt for crawdads instead? Catching local bait? Set a line overnight? Anything . . .
The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. Darryl Hayashida
snip Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us? Who packs a rod and are glad they did? Secret bait? Techniques? Equipment? Eggs, worms, lures? Just give it up? Hunt for crawdads instead? Catching local bait? Set a line overnight? Anything . . . — John Kiljan
Hi John, I do a lot of solo hiking and always carry fishing equipment which pays for the space and weight. Most of my experience is in Yosemite and Sequoia, and I’ve never failed to catch small native trout. I know there are a lot of purist who’ll object, but this is food, and I eat every one. I carry a collapsible 7′ rod, a mini spinning reel with 4# mono line. I use #18 bronze treble hooks and carry a black film canister filled with fresh velveta. I barely cover the hook, this is small, like the head of a book match. More will work, not any better though, and the fish are usually small anyway. I fly fish some, so I understand a little about reading water. I found fish in 4" slow runs, places too small to hide a canteen, places you’d swear wouldn’t hold a 6" trout. I don’t cast, just drop it in and let the water pull off some line, and when it stops I reel in the slack. Never counted how many tries to catch a fish, but I’ve never gotten bored or hungry. Landing the fish is no problem. I use the 2" blade on my Swiss Army knife to clean them per the Rappalla book. I rinse them well and nestle them head to tail, wrap them in aluminum foil, and place them in the hot embers. They have a lot of flavor. Other things in my fishing kit: Red plastic hook disgorger with the big end cut off and the shaft roughened A clean plastic super market vegetable bag which I rinse and use again to put the dispatched fish on my belt 1/4 of an old facecloth for picking up wigglin’ fish Guess there are some other things I carry, sliding sinkers for lakes, a couple of small casting lures to amuse myself with, and a couple plastic look-alike bugs. Hope this helps. –Charleroi
Do you really think that experienced people are going post their favorite fishing spot? Would you like by some land which occasionally above water? I don’t fish, so I won’t suggest that people fish at the V. place. But others can.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also. But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups. Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work. When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group. - George POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.
I thought they were talking about trout. When I go for bear I use a much heavier line. 2lbs test is just not strong enough for bear. My mistake. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups. Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work. When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group. - George
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also. But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups. Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work. When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group. - George POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.
Actually, I thought they were walking about trout. When I go for bear I use a much heaver line. 2 lbs test is just too light for bear. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups. Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work. When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group. - George
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also. But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups. Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work. When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group. - George
POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.
The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado.
I go for the fly fishing also. But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups. Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work. When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group. - George
writes: The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish.
I use flies, but I don’t know how to fly fish in the traditional sense. I use a spinning rod and reel. About 2-3 feet from the end of the line I attach a elongated teardrop-shaped bobber. It has a rubber tube inside that the line slides through, then to secure it, I just give it a few twists. A plug opens on one end that I can fill with water; too much and it’ll sink, too little and I can’t cast far. Simple! Then I just tie on a fly on the end of the line and, wallah, flyfishing for people like me! My knowledge is that most high lakes in Washington state are stocked. I’m not sure how to tell the difference between wild and harvested fish. Anyone know? Jason R. wherever you go, there you are – HDT
: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout. Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft. That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.
Colorado has excellent fishing in alpine lakes above 9000′ primarily as a result of aerial stocking begun in the 1950’s. Cutthroat trout are the most common with brook and rainbow trout doing well also.Due to the pristine environment, abundant aquatic insect population and light fishing pressure these trout can grow larger than their cousins in low altitude streams and rivers. The dramatic changes in water temperature of high lakes probably has the greatest effect on fishing success. As the sun warms water close to shore the fish will migrate to the center or to deeper areas of the lake. Not very productive for a fisherman stuck on the shore. For this reason the higher the lake is the better, especially as summer wears on and the lower lakes gradually become warmer. Regards, Brian
Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough. Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft. Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink.
Would you mind terribly to expound a little bit on "extra-fast sinking shooting head" for us novice fly fishers? I mean, this is some sort of wet fly? Do you need a sinking line (maybe that is obvious but I will ask anyway). Thanks, Lawrence Kennon
Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later. Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?
There are: In "rec.outdoors.fishing.fly" Virtually all of my backcountry travel centers on fly fishing. I usually make one trip a year into the GSMNP and one trip into the Wind River Range. The former is stream fishing, the latter almost exclusively lake fishing. Most of these lakes are at or above timberline. I don’t want to rub it in, but we always catch fish; lots of them too. Let me take the liberty to answer some questions and clarify some misconceptions: First, just because you can’t see fish does not mean they aren’t there. You have to look VERY carefully to see fish, must have a trained eye, and you must have polarized glasses (to reduce glare). Keep in mind that trout are prey for many beasts of the wild, and if you can see them, they can almost certainly see you. On many occasions, the only fish I ever see are those in my hand when I’m releasing them! Second, there are few lakes of any size in the U.S. that really have only a 2-month ice out. There are lots of lakes, however, that may be completely iced out for only 3 months or so. This does not preclude a productive fishery. I have fished lakes in the Wind River Range that are ice free for at most 4 months a year (July-Oct), and yet are extremely productive. I fished a lake last year at 11,000 ft that held cutthroats up to nearly 30 inches (yep, 30 inches, not 30 centimeters). This lake was still 1/4 iced-in the first week of August! There probably is a limit to how high a lake can be and still support fish, but it is probably about the same limit as for people, which is higher than 13,000 ft (I think it is between 15K and 18K, but can’t remember). Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough. Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft. Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink. Fourth, although it is true that few alpine lakes outside of the Sierras have native trout, many alpine lakes have self sustaining populations of wild trout. For example, none of the lakes in the Winds originally had fish. Much of the stocking was done by Finis Mitchell and his family in the 1920s and 1930s. Many of these lakes have received no fish since then. Fifth, there are fishless alpine lakes out there, no doubt about it. Lakes can be too shallow (they freeze solid, or nearly so); they can become oxygen depleted in the winter (esp. a problem if there is no inlet or outlet); and the water can be so sterile that there aren’t enough nutrients to feed the bugs that feed the fish (typically a problem for the first lake immediately below glaciers, etc.). If you have any questions, I’d be happy to try to answer them, except for the names of the lakes . 2-3 months of the year, and yet are extremely productive fisheries. are ice free for
The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk
Spinners would be my second choice if I didn’t have my fly fishing gear with me. I fished spinners for ten years before I started fly fishing. It isn’t that one is more successful than the other, I just enjoy fly fishing, especially dry fly fishing more than spin fishing. My favorite spinner was (still is on the rare occasion that I spin fish) a size 1 or 2 (small) Panther Martin black body with yellow spots, gold blade. Darryl Hayashida
: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout. Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft. That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.
As someone else commented, most of the alpine lakes in CO were stocked at some time. My father-in-law worked for Colorado Fish and Game, and one of his jobs was stocking wilderness lakes. He’d ride a horse and lead a pack string with panniers filled with fingerlings! Lakes that were farther than a day’s ride, or inaccessible by horseback, were stocked by helicopter. That must have been a sight! We’ve caught trout in lakes at 12,160 feet. Most very high lakes are small and freeze thickly in the winter, so many are sterile unless there is ongoing stocking. Trout are able to swim through some pretty impressive falls, though, so there is some migration, and if the lake is big enough the fish will be ok through the winter. Most of the lakes I’ve backpacked to in the Colorado high country have fish in them. This doesn’t guarantee dinner, though. — _][ Data Support Section * National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) __PO Box 3000, Boulder, Colorado 80307 * 303/497-1214 * 303/497-1298 fax
: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout. Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft. That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s. greg rose
The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains.
I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk
It’s not hidden, you didn’t bother looking: Panel 26: Fishing alt.fishing alt.archery rec.outdoors.fishing rec.outdoors.fishing.fly rec.boats Just like the white water paddlers. Like Muir said, Fishing is boring.
An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? Gary
An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ?
I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing? You will let us know how this turns out, won’t you? Lawrence Kennon
alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated. I am not. I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come
I always do the same thing. Most of my hiking is done around larger bodies of water (lakes and such) Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us? Who packs a rod and are glad they did? Secret bait? Techniques?
I’m always glad I packed the rod. Even if I don’t catch anything (most of the time) I like to fish anyway. Gives me an excuse not to do the dishes after supper! Andrew Roberts
Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us? Who packs a rod and are glad they did? Secret bait? Techniques? Equipment? Eggs, worms, lures? Just give it up? Hunt for crawdads instead? Catching local bait? Set a line overnight? Anything . . . I’ve had reasonable success in the last few years in fishing the
backcountry. My buddy and I mostly catch-and-release (e.g. last year in Colorado we landed over 30 in an afternoon), but we sometimes keep enough to "have a feast." I guess I could say that the secret is to be prepared for a "hunt" to find what the fish are interested in. Last year, it was easy enough because they were hitting small spinners (e.g., Panther Martin’s and Mepps) on very light line (e.g. 2 lb.). However, the previous year (in New Mexico), the fish just weren’t interested in anything in our "tackle box." So, we resorted to using little grubs found in the stream bed (helgromites (sp), I believe they are called), and the fish went nuts. We used a very small hook and "bobbed" the bait up and down. Actually, it was more like try to get the hook into the water and out again before one latched on. (I actually had one fish–they were native cut-throat–jump out of the water to get the bait). So, a lot of trial-and-error will probably be necessary to find what they are attracted to. However, it has been load of fun. BTW: These cases were both streams above 9000 feet. My only recent experience with mountain lakes was a small lake in Apache-Setgreaves (Arizona), which had obviously been stocked with Artic Grayling (and "interesting" fish to pull out of the water in Arizona!).
Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us? Who packs a rod and are glad they did? Secret bait? Techniques? Equipment? Eggs, worms, lures? Just give it up? Hunt for crawdads instead? Catching local bait? Set a line overnight? Anything . . .
In Colorado I have had very good luck with a small spin casting rod/reel (4 lb test) using little 1/16 ounce spinners (Wooters, or Hooters, or something like that are my favorite). I have caught trout in lakes over 11,000 feet while standing on old snow on the bank and icebergs floating in the lake. Most of the lakes _do_ have edible (_very_ edible) trout in them. Have never had any luck on streams (haven’t really tried) but have seen fly fisherman catch them in streams. There is the little lake around Garfied (sorry, can’t tell you the name, that is my secret!) up about 11,000 feet or so, very small and fishable only at one end where it is deep enough. I had the best fishing day of my life there a couple years ago. We set up the tent and left the wife and kids to go look for a place to fish on this lake (first time there) and I found this little "hole" at one end. In a few minutes with approx. 7-8 casts I caught 5 great trout, several of them quite big. Needless to say we feasted that night. The bad news is that it is quite a hike off the beaten path to get there. Perhaps that is why there were a lot of hungry and unwary fish. Look for a lake like that, one that is _hard_ to get to, one that isn’t visited often. lk
Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later. Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking? Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated. I am not. I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment. In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us? Who packs a rod and are glad they did? Secret bait? Techniques? Equipment? Eggs, worms, lures? Just give it up? Hunt for crawdads instead? Catching local bait? Set a line overnight? Anything . . . — John Kiljan